This is going to sound stupid, but occasionally I like to drink 1-2 bottles of Benilyn Dry Non-drowsy (~600mg DXM, resulting in no more than the "second plateau"). I find that I will be extremely focused, motivated and energetic for a period of up to 9 hours afterwards. It has been extremely conducive to some of my more creative academic work. For comparison, it was like a stronger version of my first piracetam experience (which regrettably, hasn't been reproduced to the same degree), or perhaps like a significant caffeine dose, but without the shakes/anxiety/confusion/sickness.

Obviously, there are a lot of cons with DXM, particularly in the form of cough medicine (and in the UK the max dose per 5ml is is 7.5mg, meaning it's even more diluted). Not to mention, it can be slightly unpleasant to drink. I rarely practice this more than once every few months because I don't like the risks, however, to me it is a desirable state of being and I am seeking to reproduce it in a more natural way. Since my experience with nootropics is currently somewhat limited, I was hoping there would be someone here who understands my DXM experience and knows of a nootropic supplement that may have similiar effects.

Currently I'm taking piracetam 400mg twice daily, ginkgo biloba in the morning then again as I see fit. Both of which are definitely beneficial but I'd like something with a more prominent, short term boost. I was considering rhodiola. Since I'm UK modafinil is off the table. I doubt I would be be able to get such stimulating effects from a supplement/legal medicine type source anyway, but hope there's something similar.


I know this may seem more like a recreational drugs question than a nootropics one, but for me DXM has been effective at improving my productivity for certain types of work and personally, I wouldn't waste it recreationally. I hope you can understand this.

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 9 2010, 01:51 AM

DXM can be an extremely powerful dissosiative drug acting on the pc40 receptors (ever heard of PCP). I already ordered pure Dextrometorphan hydrobromide from an online lab when i was younger so we could get high on it. 1g is comparable to a coma for 6 hours but tripping intensely. at 600mg we were down and acting weird. 800mg was the perfect dose for a plateau 3. You can extract you DXM from the syrup via a simple extraction method since drinking syrup isn't tasty at all... To augment to effect just drink a lot of orange juice with it. By the way tripping more than twice weekly on DXM could cause permanent damage. And a 1g over plateau 4 is dangerous. Anyway I'm kind of surprised that it's acting as a cognitive enhancer for you. We used to walk like robots and see time going soooo slow. But the hallucinations at higher dose were awesome and you can't feel cold on high dose of this drug so be careful if you are going on and it's cold.

I suggest Rhodiola rosea and Modafinil.. I take both they are awesome... But DXM seriously i was doing this when i was 16 to get really high and have visual and bodily halucinations. Anyway.. Good luck!

Best regards,
M4

That seems to be the main reason people take it, afaik most users like to get as much as they can to trip, I've never been beyond the third "plateau" and that was only by accident - it made me blind to faces. I know the robot feeling you mention; it happens even at low doses, I liken it to being a legoman (have you read Coupland's jPod? I'm convinced it's the inspiration for the cover art). Unfortunately, because the type of person likely to take DXM is typically only interested in large doses for psychedelic effect, it can make it difficult to discuss the other potential uses sensibly.

I wouldn't say it acts as a cognitive enhancer as such, more a stimulant that gives me the energy to get focused, but it also lifts my mood which makes me willing and titillated. I'm not interested in hallucination, like I say, I take relatively low doses (I redid the maths and it's more like 500mg). Heck, I suppose it could simply be some sort of sugar rush from the other ingredients of the cough syrup rather than a dxm effect.

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 9 2010, 02:18 AM

I would recommend you experiment with some NMDA receptor antagonists or at least some channel blockers. Ibogaine (at no more then 400mg) should mimic the majority of DXM's effects or the more readily available Memantine may elicit a similar nootropic response but without the mood enhancement.

do you know if extracting it alleviates some of the long-term negative health/brain effects, and if so, by how much?

Extracting DXM from the syrup will only alleviates the syrup's effects eg vomiting after chugging a whole bottle and end/or extreme stomach discomfort. Only health benefit is that it's easier on your liver.

Memantine

Ibogaine ?? DXM?? As cognitive enhancers? Well I guess I've had friends who managed to do extremely difficult managerial jobs requiring lots of responsibility on high doses of acid and phenethylamines, but they weren't looking for cognitive enhancement...It was more of a macho bravado thing like look I can act just fine when I'm torn to shreds and seeing shit.

I wouldn't use low dosages of substances like that for cognitive enhancement...you'll build up tolerance sooner than later, and eventually (as with any drug producing any sort of euphoria) you're gonna want to do more of it...ever heard of Onley's Lesions ? Dissociatives are very bad for the brain...

I've had a group of friends who used to do ridiculous loads of DXM for days and weeks at a time...they later used nootropics to help those NMDA receptors recover...so it does a lot of damage at the expense of questionable stimulation IMO.

Ibogaine I haven't tried, but from what I read it's an African "spiritual plant" and it gives you a hell of a trip too...any "tripping" on psychedelics destroys your linear concentration...so I can't see cognitive benefits from this on a day to day basis.

As far as I can tell that's a restricted medicine, at least in the UK and I'd have a hard time getting hold of it. I was hoping there might be something more accessible and perhaps natural.



Like I say, I only experienced high energy, mood and drive. Never significant dissociative effects and I'm explicitly looking for a safer alternative.

You could compare my DXM usage to the way some people use alcohol.. they might say that a small amount of alcohol in certain situations (ie. social interaction, not driving) relaxes them and consequently improves their functioning; having a beneficial effect. Yet, at high doses it'll have you sleeping in a pool of vomit.

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 9 2010, 01:53 PM

To be blunt, this makes literally no sense.

DXM is absolutely NOT a cognitive enhancer, and if for some reason it has worked that way for you, you're an EXTREME MINORITY with some sort of unique condition that causes it to do so.

I think it is important to be this blunt, because I can only imagine the potential harm that could result if anyone rushes out to secure a 600mg dose of DXM, thinking it would be beneficial to them.

It's interesting that you bring this up now. There was an episode of House a month or so ago, involving a physics (I believe) genius who had trouble relating to people because he was so incredibly intelligent. Anyway, long story short, he artificially made himself dumb for years in order to be able to relate to other humans, particularly his girlfriend (or wife?). You know how he did it in that episode? By taking DXM.

So seriously, you may love to take DXM because it makes you feel good - but be careful about suggesting that it might be a cognitive enhancer. Heroin probably feels like it's expanding the mind too.

Oh I absolutely agree and have tried not to imply that DXM is a cognitive enhancer. It's the energy and mood boost (documented effects) that I find beneficial to certain types of work. Frankly, I suspect your response is tainted by the more well-known psychotropic ("recreational") uses of DXM. I would not consider that I have a unique condition, but it is likely my approach and usage is significantly different from those who simply seek to get high. Let me reiterate my previous words.. I don't think DXM is a good thing and wouldn't encourage people to take it, I have simply found it to have stimulating effects at the low "recreational" doses I use and would like to reproduce these effects to some degree in a healthier, safer way.

Yes, I saw that episode of House but drew no parallels to my own experience. As stated, I do it infrequently so negative effects, if any, are probably too subtle to be noticed, but that's irrelevant since I'm here asking for alternatives that won't carry these problems.

My only reason for mentioning DXM is that I hoped someone would be familiar with my experience, clearly this was a foolish expectation so I'd like to draw this topic away from DXM to supplements of a stimulating nature. For example, caffeine alternatives. Things that can provide short term focus and energy boost when you need to get a job done. I'm under the impression this is how some people employ the stronger racetams?

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 9 2010, 11:35 PM

The best thing I could suggest for your situation is modafinil and pramiracetam. Maybe add in some Rhodiola as well. They work well for me in the short term definatley, as long as your not taking them on a daily basis. Maybe, try cycling them. Btw, there's usually no problems bringing modafinil into the Uk. You can get it from qhi.co.uk , who ship from Austria, which is in the EU, so it usually goes straight through customs.

Good luck finding an alternative!

Thanks for that. I actually came across qhi, but they have a statement on their website regarding the UK, it also seems rather expensive (about £80 for a 1 month supply of modafinil, which rather exceeds my modest budget). From my own research and the couple of suggestions here, rhodiola seems like the most likely choice that suits my requirements. It seems odd though as I read it can reduce fatigue and stress yet also be sedating. Unless anyone has any other suggestions I think it will be my next purchase.

Just a FYI on my intake background, currently, for long term benefits, I take bacopa, phosphatidylserine, ginkgo biloba and piracetam. For short term boost I use increased doses of ginkgo and occasionally pro plus (caffeine), I am also a heavy coffee and tea drinker. I'm also keeping a full dream/sleep/supplement/activity diary to mark progress from specific supplements.

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 10 2010, 01:06 AM

I am just having the hardest time in this thread, understanding the elements of all these things that people will do to their brains in the name of cognitive enhancement. I'm a big fan of Rhodiola (Mind Body & Spirit for me, occasional Energy Reserves) but I see it as something healthy and something meant to be taken to help my brain. I can't imagine mixing my Rhodiola with something like DXM, or drinking bottles of syrup. If you want to expand your consciousness, why not just use a natural product like mushrooms . . . Now, mushrooms and rhodiola might be a good combination product!

Seriously, I've been really misunderstood in this topic.

The initial effects of DXM consumption are significant mood elevation and energy. No tripping, no hallucination or dreamstate. Everything is as normal (though sometimes with a peculiar "robot" sensation in the extremeties). I do not think it is a good thing however - there are a number of chronic and acute side effects to both short and long term DXM use. I was simply trying to make a comparison to the effect I have experienced. In the short term, my DXM usage has provided me with energy and motivation for some of my work. It's been more pleasant and effective than high doses of caffeine for late night stimulation. That is all. I don't think it's a good thing and I would like an alternative. I'm not advocating DXM or trying to imply it can provide cognitive enhancement.

It was a bad idea for me to bring up DXM - everyone focuses on it as a dissasociative and ignores the other effects which I'd like to discuss.

I have Rhodiola on my list as "next to try", but I believe I'm seeing increasing benefits from piracetam, obviously nowhere near as powerful in terms of the energy and focus that I've been seeking, but it has been useful and surprising. So for now I'm content to see where piracetam takes me though it is likely I will try rhodiola for its energising properties in the near future.

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 12 2010, 11:34 PM

As far as I can tell that's a restricted medicine, at least in the UK and I'd have a hard time getting hold of it. I was hoping there might be something more accessible and perhaps natural.

[quote]

not really. We live in the 21st centuary and believe it or not we (The UK) are not that behind the United States. I can order valium (which is a class C drug) through the post no problems. There seems to be a lot of people on here from the UK who think that we are handicapped in some way? It's a bit strange really why do we have this inferiority complex?

I've noticed that attitude too, but I have no issues getting both Modafinil and Memantine in the UK.

I think the OP is deluding himself if he thinks he can find a 'natural' alternative to DXM.

Personally, I'm just more comfortable ordering from within the UK.

Perhaps not a natural alternative, but maybe a more sensible, less restricted alternative. And I'm not necessarily interested in an extensive or precise mimicry of effects. I decided today to look into the ingredients of energy bars/drinks (taurine, inositol, guarana, etc), which may provide what I'm looking for. However I had a couple of those "energy shot" drinks that have recently become popular today and noted nothing.

This post has been edited by viltro: Feb 14 2010, 03:43 AM

I'm pretty impressed that you can be productive with DXM! I get too distracted while on it, especially when listening to music :D.

I used to take around 400-500mg DXM often (like 3x a week) and I can definitely say it has affected my thinking adversely. I'm probably not the only one who has felt the effects of long term DXM use. I would be careful, just because you are getting good results right now doesn't mean you aren't causing damage in the long run.

For a while my memory was super bad and I would pretty much be unable to think in-depth thoughts. I took aniracetam (supposedly an NMDA modulator) for a few weeks and could immediately feel my memory come back. One note, if you take DXM and dose with aniracetam it pretty much negates any effect from the DXM (except for cough suppression).

Now I only take rhodiola and a multivit and can say that it has helped me a ridiculous amount as far as creativity/mental energy levels. Maybe give it a try?

Good luck with your search, and be safe!

Three times a week is quite a lot. I used it as a fuel for my infrequent allnighters, which was once every couple of months, maybe. The work I have used it for has included game development and 3D visualisation, which is probably why I was able to focus and enjoy it.. I can't imagine it being useful for essay writing or similar work.

Just started Rhodiola 3 days ago. As expected, the energetic effects are severely tame compared to benilyn abuse. However, I had a definite energy boost (though this could be attributed to a placebo effect) and went cycling a significant distance, then came back home and got some work in, so hopefully this will raise my energy levels longer term.

I'm still interested in a short term energy zap though. I may try modafinil in the future; we'll see how desperate I get. I also noticed nicotine patches were on sale at the chemist the other day.. I wonder if anyone has tried those as a stimulant? I've never smoked myself. From what I know, I can't imagine it to be worse than DXM for infrequent use. Of course, perhaps the best solution is just for me to buckle down and develop a better long term working pattern.. I just enjoy those late night coding sessions too much.

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