I found out that using a high dosage of krill oil together with phosphatidyl serine has concentration enhancing properties. I use it against ADD. I find it working better then traditional meds. As a long time dexedrine user I really know what I am talking about. This is my dosage:

08:00 6 softgels krill oil.
09:00 1 softgel phosphatidyl serine.
12:00 1 softgel phosphatidyl serine.
14:00 4 softgels krill oil
15:00 1 softgel phosphatidyl serine.
18:00 1 softgel phosphatidyl serine.
20:00 4 softgels krill oil
21:00 1 softgel phosphatidyl serine.

Total: 14 capsules krill oil and 5 softgels PS.

Sometimes I also take lecithin (which is cheaper then phosphatidyl serine, but not as calming).

People who don't have ADD might also use these supplements as a mind enhancing, concentration improving nootropic.

Remember: All these supplements are fats that originate from diet and body.

The brand krill oil is neptune krill oil (2 softgels = 1.0 g neptune krill oil/ NKO) and the brand phosphatidyl serine is Nature's Way.


After taking the phosphatidyl serine I feel the substances have concentration enhancing but also calming, relaxing properties.


How does it work:

The brain cells membrane is made of fat. One of these fats is phosphatidyl serine. Krill oil has DHA/EPA connected to phosphatidyl choline. This works as an anchor and enables more phosphatidyl serine to anchor to the cell membrane. More phosphatidyl serine improves the brain electral conduction and makes the electrical signals stronger, causing more neurotransmitters to be released. Something like that...

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 24 2009, 05:54 PM

This bookreview has more information about phosphatidyl serine and also about it's cognitive enhancing effects:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=u9QAO9QgAc...;q=&f=false

It's written by dr. Kidd Parris.

This is completely no advertisement. I have no financial ties. Both krill oil and phosphatidyl serine is sold by many brands and in many stores and so nothing here can benefit me financially. I only have 3 reasons for placing this:

1 Sharing information to make the world a better place.
2 Helping people with ADD who like me can't concentrate on a sigle line of reading a book and thus fail many times in many things.
3 Boosting people's knowledge of treating ADD the alternative way so that better treatment methods can be developed.

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 24 2009, 07:30 PM

Wow, this is such an advertisement.


edit: oh wait, you're the guy who put that ugly krill oil ad in my regimen thread.


Someone delete this thread.

This post has been edited by Pike: Oct 24 2009, 07:28 PM

This is completely no advertisement. I have no financial ties. Both krill oil and phosphatidyl serine is sold by many brands and in many stores and so nothing here can benefit me financially. I only have 3 reasons for placing this:

1 Sharing information to make the world a better place.
2 Helping people with ADD who like me can't concentrate on a sigle line of reading a book and thus fail many times in many things.
3 Boosting people's knowledge of treating ADD the alternative way so that better treatment methods can be developed.

Pike read that book review... Did you not read that phosphatidyl serine can improve brain functioning?

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 24 2009, 07:34 PM

1) there are no studies WHATSOEVER to support the use of krill oil in ADHD. The only literature that could be inferred to support it is the research done with FISH OIL.

2) PPS is one of the most expensive supplements out there when there are alternate and cheaper methods of cerebral membrane stabilization.

3) Krill oil has no standardized way of production, in that, there is no molecular distillation to remove any of the potential toxins that are associated with the fish.

4) The farming of krill oil, which at this point has no real scientific basis to support its treatment of ANYTHING, involves actual extraction of antarctic krill and for quite some time now has been causing a lot of controversy.

5) As someone with ADHD who also has a lot of experience with stimulant medications, I know what I'm talking about too - but you don't see me boasting about the mind-boggling efficacy of other products. I can also say that you don't know what you're talking about.

6) FISH oil, magnesium, vitamin b6. You know what they all have in common? They all have at least one study to even suggest their efficacy in treating ADHD, which is more than what I can say about krill oil - an otherwise useless product. Can you link me some studies to show direct support to suggest krill oil's efficacy for ADHD treatment?

7) If you're genuine in any of the things you say, why don't you detail for us a little more about some of the other things you do to treat your ADHD, such as diet, lifestyle choices, exercise, organizational tools? Tell me, if I was dead-set on NOT purchasing "Neptune Krill Oil," what other brand would you recommend for me?

This post has been edited by Pike: Oct 24 2009, 07:52 PM

Ok if you are looking for studies and you say that there is no evidence supporting the usage of krill oil against ADHD, would it be a good idea to rename this thread to krill oil.. phosphatidyl serine enhances concentration/ memory? Because there are studies that say that phosphatidyl serine can improve memory.

Oh yes while there is evidence for fish oil, fish oil did nothing good for me.

Please read this article it explains Omega3-phosphatidyl serine:

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/12/3/207.pdf

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 24 2009, 08:24 PM

You seem to be having some problems answering my questions, so I'll go ahead and re-ask them in a condensed manner:

1) Would you please post up any study that directly involves the use of krill oil on testing subjects who have ADHD. I'm not even looking for a double blind study, anything will do.

2) Could you please detail to us what kind of lifestyle choices you've made, aside from krill oil supplementation, that are intended to also treat your ADHD such as diet, exercise, organizational tools, etc. in a more holistic manner?

3) Please recommend to me another brand of krill oil aside from Neptune.

edit: oh, and I've read that article before.

This post has been edited by Pike: Oct 24 2009, 10:10 PM

I think I'm having an ADD related attention span/ motivation problem so I only answered the questions that seemed easy enough to answer.

I always do that!



I would have to look that up in pubmed! I will do... Wait I have a krill oil shortage...

The only article I could find is

Omega-3 DHA and EPA for cognition, behavior, and mood: clinical findings and structural-functional synergies with cell membrane phospholipids.

But it doesn't mentions krill oil as a proven thing against ADD.

However... Krill oil contains Omega 3 fatty acids. Omega 3 fatty acids is the same as found in fish oil (which is proven).

Krill oil also contains Omega 3 fatty acids bonded to Phosphatidylcholine. There was a study that examined Omega 3 fatty acids bonded to phosphatidylserine. These are very similar compounds. Both are found on the brain cell membrane.

The study was called:

Correlation between changes in blood fatty acid composition and visual sustained attention performance in children with inattention: effect of dietary n-3 fatty acids containing phospholipids.



I'm listening to concentration improving music called brainsync.



Well neptune is the only brand that claims their krill oil is mercury and PCB free. Neptune is the biggest brand and I wouldn't know of any other good brands really. I do know about azantis but I don't know if their krill oil works or not because I haven't tried it.

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 25 2009, 08:08 AM

I found an article about using phosphatidyl serine against ADHD. This is one of the 2 compounds I use:

Effect of phosphatidylserine administration on symptoms of Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in children
S. HIRAYAMA1*,Y. MASUDA2,R. RABELER3

PURPOSE

To clarify whether the administration of phosphatidylserine
("PS") can improve the attention-deficit ("AD") and
hyperactivity disorder ("HD") symptoms in children. with
AD/HD.

STUDY DESIGN AND SUBJECTS

A pilot study in 15 AD/HD children 6 to 12 years old (including
6 suspected to have AD/HD) who had rarely received
medication before. These 15 children took 200 mg/day of PS
in a capsule every day for 2 months. The following items were
investigated at the start of study ("pre-study") and upon
completion of study ("post-study): 1) AD/HD symptoms
(inattention/hyperactivity and impulsiveness) based on DSMIV
diagnostic criteria, 2) learning disorders (hearing, speaking,
reading, writing, calculation, inference) based on learning
disorders ("LD") check list, 3) visual perception (figure
background perception task to find a prescribed form in the
sheet), 4) visual and auditory short-term memory and 5)
continuous performance test ("CPT").

RESULTS

After the intervention, (1) AD/HD symptoms were significantly
improved (p<0.01). Significant improvement was observed
both in the inattention and hyperactivity and impulsiveness
(p<0.01 and p<0.05 respectively) (3) visual perception was
also significantly improved (p<0.001). A tendency towards an
improvement was observed in (2) LD and (5) CPT (9 only
error) (p<0.10). However, no significant difference was
observed with regard to visual and auditory short-term
memory (4).

CONCLUSION

PS was shown to improve AD/HD symptoms as demonstrated
by the results of DSM-IV diagnostic criteria, visual perception
test, learning disorder checklist, and CPT. Further studies
using larger sample sizes are required to confirm the
significant beneficial results of PS on AD/HD of this pilot trial.



Full text is available for free here: http://www.lipamin-ps.com/ftp/agro_16_20.pdf

Some excerpts:

Phosphatidylserine (PS) is a naturally occurring phospholipid
present in all biological membranes of animals, higher plants
and micro organisms. In humans, PS is most concentrated in
the brain where it comprises up to 15 percent of the total
phospholipid pool. PS plays an important role in the
functioning of neuronal membranes, e.g., maintenance of the
neuron's internal environment, secretory vesicle release,
signal transduction, cell-to-cell communication, and cell
growth regulation (7-10).

Thus, it is not surprising that this phospholipid is considered
to be an important brain nutrient (11). Numerous studies in
animals and humans have documented effects of PS on
specific neurotransmitter systems, including brain
acetylcholine (12), norepinephrine, serotonin (13), and
dopamine (14). These data indicate that PS has an effect on
neurotransmitter systems that may play a role in cognitive
functions. Clinical studies indeed have provided significant
evidence that the central effects of an oral PS treatment have
beneficial effects on cognitive functions (for a review see (15)
and (16)). The only evidence available indicating that PS
could serve as a supplementary and substitution treatment
for AD/HD comes from a preliminary study carried out by the
renowned American paediatrician Carol Ann Ryser (17). In a
physician in-office study of 21 consecutive ADHD cases aged
4-19, dietary supplementation with PS benefited greater than
90 percent of these cases. At intakes of 200-300 mg/day of
PS for up to four months, attention and learning were most
consistently improved. However, this research has not been
prepared into a formal thesis.

...

...it should be mentioned that phosphatidylserine (PS) is
present in the brain at a much higher concentration than in
other organs. It is an important component of cell membrane in
the synapse of nerve cells and is deeply involved in the
loculation that leads to the production and release of
neurotransmitters and the activities mediated by the receptors
in specific synaptic cleft. PS was shown to activate the brain,
when taken as a supplement (25). PS facilitates synaptic
connectivity parts, and especially improves dopamine
transmission. In other words, it is beneficial for the production
and release of dopamine as well as the excitation of receptors
in the posterior synapse (26). A similar view was presented by
Blokland et al. (27) and Crook et al. PS is reported to
play an important role in the maintenance of intracellular
environment, neurotransmission, release from loculi, and
communication between the cells. It is also an important
component of cell membrane in the adjustment of cell growth.
In general, PS is suggested to stimulate the dopaminergic
system in the hypothalamus (29, 29), and to stimulate
dopamine-sensitive adenylate cyclase (30). It is also reported
that PS increases acetylcholine, noradrenalin, serotonin and
dopamine in animal models and patients with Alzheimer
disease (12-14, 31-35). These reports indicate that PS is
involved in the regeneration of cell membrane and adjustment
of neurotransmitters (mainly dopamine) in synaptic cleft.

Thus, it is useful in the reconstruction of nerve network whose
function has been disturbed. It is well known that central
stimulants such as methylphenidate hydrochloride are effective
in AD/HD. The major action mechanism of central stimulants
may be described as the activation of noradrenalin system in
the brain (36) that adjusts higher cerebral function including
attentiveness by freeing (releasing) noradrenalin from the
sympathetic nerve terminal and chrome-affinitive cells.
There is a research that reports on the relation of not only
noradrenalin but also dopamine to central stimulants. By
interfering with the reuptake of these neurotransmitters from
the synaptic cleft, stimulants effectively increase the respective
signal intensity and duration (39-41). Huijbregts et al. (42)
pointed out that intensive research based on the hypothesis of
dopamine insufficiency in AD/HD is in progress at present. The
improvement of AD/HD symptoms in the present trial might
suggest that a PS administration is therapeutically effective in
increasing the dopamine or noradrenalin concentration in the
synaptic cleft even though the mechanism of inhibiting the reuptake
seemed different from that of central stimulants.

it's nice and all that you posted the study on PPS, but once again, it's one of the most expensive supplements on the market. And at the dose done in the study of 300-400mg per day for 4 months, I could easily purchase an entire regimen of other things to treat my adhd, like magnesium, vitamin b-6, and FISH oil. Aside from the outrageous price of PPS, there are far cheaper and more effective ways to enhance membrane stability/fluidity i.e. CDP-Choline, Centrophenoxine, etc.

looking around in the krill oil supplement market, i can't find one krill oil supplement that even even 250mg of TOTAL omega-3. It's no wonder you would have to take "high dosage krill oil" because even taking 10 gel-caps a day, you're probably getting less than a gram of actual omega-3.

so essentially, what you said comes out to this:

- you can't produce any studies supporting the use of krill oil for ADHD, because no studies exist... which i already said.

- the only support which might warrant krill oil use would be the inferred support it would derive from the studies done on FISH oil... which i already said.

- you are unable to provide any product recommendation aside from Neptune

that's all i need to know. enjoy your snake oil... i mean, krill oil.

Pike.. Your being way to paranoid. This guy posted a post over a month ago about him taking krill oil.

This post has been edited by JCast: Oct 26 2009, 02:22 AM

actually this thread started yesterday.

but, i suppose the words of someone who has just registered only hours ago and then uses his first post to back up someone who can't defend his own argument hold some weight. thanks for putting that into perspective for me.

I'm a believer in PS. It's one of my best supplements. I find it almost unoticable but take it for a while and you will probably find yourself having bursts of original ideas. i'm pretty shure PS could be classed as a nootropic for brain health and also cognition improvement. try it ! My creativity learly expands with it AND it's 100% side effect free.

i keep a small moleskin book with my thoughts, new concepts and idea and some of my coolest ideas come out when i take PS. I read alot on many subjects like nanotechnologies, sport kinesiology / psychology, telecoms and entrepreneurship. i find that related ideas and answers to my questions come spontaneously when i'm in a research mode in these kind of lectures.

It's VERY subtle ... but it's there !... and 16$ for a bottle of 60 capsule isn't really expansive right ?

well, at the dosages suggested from the study, that $16 bottle effectively lasts you only 15 days. at $32 a month, i'll pass.

As a long time user of fish oil, I was very skeptical about the superiority of krill oil, but was intrigued when I researched it and learned that its molecular structure is different from fish oil and supposedly thus permeated the brain-blood barrier in a way that fish oil does not. Perhaps that is why smaller doses are recommended. The first time I took it, I took the recommended dose which is 1000 mg. and felt very energized and felt my mind was unusually clear and focused. I've never felt like this taking fish oil. I was very surprised by this effect and curious if others would feel the same effects I got, so here are the results:I gave some to my husband, but he said he didn't feel any differently. My 12 year old son started taking it and acted like he had drank 3 cups of coffee-speaking fast, more energetic, begging to go to swim practice. I bought Kids Krill by Mercola for my 7 year old twins. One said it didn't make her feel any differently, the other reported that it made his brain "feel really good." I gave some to my sister and her husband and they didn't report feeling any different but my sister thought maybe her dreams were more intense. I gave some to my 74 year old mother, telling her it was similar to the fish oil she takes. She called me the next day demanding to know what I had given her because she was up untill 1 in the morning cleaning her house. What do I make of all this? It seems that some people, but not all, do derive some sort of stimulant/ noortropic effect from krill oil that is different from fish oil. I would not be surprised if krill oil is more effective than fish oil for treating add or adhd- I certainly feel more focused when I take the krill.

smaller doses are "recommended" because that's all they come in. there are no high o-3 content krill oil supps on the market, period.

tell me, while you were doing your research, where exactly did you learn that the "molecular structure of krill oil is different from fish oil," and by what means is it different? different in structure as in what other vitamins it seems to carry? different in structure as in the omega-3 content? different in composition in that the only thing it has that fish oil doesn't have is an extra antioxidant, even though fish oil already serves as an antioxidant? does any of the material that you dug up come from some sort of credible source?

i'm sorry to say, but all of this omega-3-conjugated-to-phospholipid talk is rather unconvincing. phosphatidylcholine (the chief phospholipid that is apparently bonded to the omega 3 in krill oil) by itself is an emulsifier, hence its ability to enhance the bioavailability of many substances.




my god, is there anyone here who didn't register within the last week that has anything to say in support of krill oil? at this point, i'd be generally accepting of any study done whatsoever that might even suggest krill oil has any potential for cognitive enhancement via some mechanism of action apart from the ones which we already know about from the research done on fish oil and phospholipids.

all i can see thus far is:
1) an advertiser who can't defend his own argument (and has seemingly disappeared now that he can't answer some basic questions)
2) a random user who registers 5 minutes before he posts to defend the advertiser, and then
3) this Soandso who registered 3 days ago to A) rain on one nootropic and then B) support krill oil the exact same way the OP has. seriously... stimulant response to krill oil?

sorry, but this thread smells of bullshit in every way.

If I'm just another advertiser (and not genuinly using these supplements myself against ADD), then why do I heavily post in another forum since 2006 that is for people with ADD and related conditions?

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65046

And how can I, living in the Netherlands, work for a krill oil compagny that is based in the United States?



Why would you think that the Omega3 from fish (sardine for example) is exactly the same as the omega3 from krill?

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncateg.../why-krill-oil/

"Krill oil, like fish oil, contains both of the omega-3 fats eicosapentanoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA), but hooked together in a different form. In fish oil these omega-3 fatty acids are found in the triglyceride form whereas in krill oil they are hooked up in a double chain phospholipid structure."




Never heard about caffeine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 27 2009, 09:55 AM

Phosphatidylcholine is a compound from lecithin, which is an emulsifier.

However, DHA conjugated to phosphatidylcholine is the compound that is present in krill oil (and not in fish oil) and it isn't available from lecithin.

I wonder if there is a way to chemically conjugate DHA to lecithin as a way to produce this compound from lecithin and fish oil. (could be cheaper then buying krill oil)

This post has been edited by steven d: Oct 27 2009, 11:05 AM

alright then, i'll retract my advertiser accusation. but advertisement or not, your post comes off like an ad; strongly.

going back to what has already been brought up:

- there has been no studies done whatsoever with krill oil on either children or adults with add/adhd to warrant its use.
- there is no evidence that krill oil offers anything that fish oil doesn't besides... what? astaxanthin? great, so it offers more vitamin A. awesome.
- even being more inclusive to your argument, it offers... better bioavailability? there are have been no studies comparing krill oil's omega 3 bioavailability to fish oil's. the only study that exists that even compares the two at all used 300mg of o-3 per gram and does not disclose the omega-3 content of the krill oil used at all giving no quantifiable amount as to exactly how much more bioavailable it is.
- say it does actually offer enhanced bioavailability, the fact still stands that the only sort of "nootropic" activity it would have would be that which has already been established with omega-3 in general.
- i didn't make that sardine-krill-oil-omega-3 comparison. lecithin is a known emulsifier, yes. the PPCs also have emulsification properties of their own. hell, there are patents that use lecithin or ppc to enhance the bioavailability of epa/dha.

aside from offering no real benefit outside of what fish oil has to offer, krill oil is still overpriced. extremely overpriced, at that. it's more expensive that PPS, and I never really thought i'd get around to saying a basic supplement was more expensive than PPS. if you're genuinely taking 14-15 capsules of this, then your $20 of krill oil lasts you 4 days. at $140 a month, i have better things to spend my money on. hell, with all of the money you'd spend on krill oil at the outrageous dosages you're suggesting, i could easily afford probably the highest quality fish oil on the market in quantities that would more than compensate for any sort of enhanced bioavailability that krill oil may offer (this is, of course, not factoring in the additional cost of high dose PPS which puts this at $170 a month). but you know what fish oil has that krill oil doesn't? >>> studies supporting its efficacy for treating ADHD.


that's nice. no, really, it is. i'll keep that in mind while i remember how completely irrelevant that is to what we're talking about.

alright, so, now going all the way to your end on the spectrum of this. let's say krill oil offers everything it's purported to. fantastic. it's officially the Alpha-GPC of omega-3 supplements: offering the exact same benefits as its other forms at a lower dose and an extravagantly higher price.

steven d
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Posted on: Sep 19 2009, 02:54 PM
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If you look at all the posts he's ever made, then you'll see that he posted a post saying that he takes krill oil. This post was over a month ago.

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