New Formulation For Resveratrol

I am currently reviewing the following study to consider a formula for women:
http://www.springerl...31/fulltext.pdf

The formula in the study, unlike Longevinex or other formulas, has Resveratrol, Quercetin, and Catechin in equal amounts.
For those who are interested, Inositol hexaphosphate (IP6) is not similar to Catechin. So this formula is not the same as any Longevinex formula, due to the fact it has equal amounts of all 3 ingredients while Longevinex does not, and it has Catechin, while Longevinex does not. This is just a simple fact.

The fact that this study has an "in Vitro" and an "in Vivo" study, really is interesting.

At this point, the formulation we are considering would be targeted for women: It would have Micronized resveratrol, Quercetin, and Catechin in equal amounts. My issue of course, is the amount that will fit into a Licaps capsule. The fact is that, it's certainly possible that all of these 3 ingredients may not fit at 250mg a piece into the liquid capsule. The amount in the study for the rodents comes out to about 5mg/kg of each of the ingredients, however they mentioned that 25mg/kg had no issues as well.

The formulation consideration then comes down to the Licaps space limitations:
=========================================================
Should I create a new formula, that cannot provide the adequate amounts of all these in one capsule (where a single dose is actually 3 or more capsules)

Or...

Continue to ask women to take our 250mg Licaps Micronized capsule, then purchase Quercetin at a very low price on iHerb.com, and to consider fresh green and black tea leaves as they have up to 25% of catechin (or strawberries).
=========================================================

Again, I would not get rid of our current Licap product, since very many folks do not take Quercetin, want to take it on their own with other ingredients they have already measured out, or have had measured out by their doctor. This would be a new formulation targeted at women for dietary purposes, of course.

I am open to suggestions at this point to make product specifically for women, I am also tempted to add Vitex (ie. Vitex agnus castus, Agnus castus, chaste tree, monk's pepper) to the formulation although it may affect oral contraception (maybe it is not a good idea).

Again, please chime in. I am interested as to what the folks in this forum has to say.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 17 May 2009 - 04:09 PM.

I am currently reviewing the following study to consider a formula for women:
http://www.springerl...31/fulltext.pdf

The formula in the study, unlike Longevinex or other formulas, has Resveratrol, Quercetin, and Catechin in equal amounts.
For those who are interested, Inositol hexaphosphate (IP6) is not similar to Catechin. So this formula is not the same as any Longevinex formula, due to the fact it has equal amounts of all 3 ingredients while Longevinex does not, and it has Catechin, while Longevinex does not. This is just a simple fact.

The fact that this study has an "in Vitro" and an "in Vivo" study, really is interesting.

At this point, the formulation we are considering would be targeted for women: It would have Micronized resveratrol, Quercetin, and Catechin in equal amounts. My issue of course, is the amount that will fit into a Licaps capsule. The fact is that, it's certainly possible that all of these 3 ingredients may not fit at 250mg a piece into the liquid capsule. The amount in the study for the rodents comes out to about 5mg/kg of each of the ingredients, however they mentioned that 25mg/kg had no issues as well.

The formulation consideration then comes down to the Licaps space limitations:
=========================================================
Should I create a new formula, that cannot provide the adequate amounts of all these in one capsule (where a single dose is actually 3 or more capsules)

Or...

Continue to ask women to take our 250mg Licaps Micronized capsule, then purchase Quercetin at a very low price on iHerb.com, and to consider fresh green and black tea leaves as they have up to 25% of catechin (or strawberries).
=========================================================

Again, I would not get rid of our current Licap product, since very many folks do not take Quercetin, want to take it on their own with other ingredients they have already measured out, or have had measured out by their doctor. This would be a new formulation targeted at women for dietary purposes, of course.

I am open to suggestions at this point to make product specifically for women, I am also tempted to add Vitex (ie. Vitex agnus castus, Agnus castus, chaste tree, monk's pepper) to the formulation although it may affect oral contraception (maybe it is not a good idea).

Again, please chime in. I am interested as to what the folks in this forum has to say.

Cheers
A

The options seem to be:

A. Sell quercetin and catechin pills too, at 250 mg.

1. Blister pack of weekly dose, with three pills in the pack one of each kind.
2. Sell three bottles of equal amounts of each

B. Sell mixed capsules that require 3 pills at a time.

Edited by maxwatt, 17 May 2009 - 06:26 PM.

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Hi Anthony,
Personally, I would prefer to take the straight micronized capsule, and add the other supplements as I see fit. I am allergic to apples, specifically the skin, but I don't know if I would have a reaction to quercitin. I am also allergic to rice, which (rice bran) is a component of Longevinex. My allergies are the reason I didn't try Longevinex for my first attempt at taking resveratarol. I have only been on resveratrol for a month, and was happy to find a company (Revgenetics) that didn't have a bunch of other stuff included in the capsule, because it is difficult to separate out the reactions to known allergens and a new supplement. So, I am quite happy with a more pure version. Even if I were not allergic, I don't think I would want to take three capsules when I could take one. (I am female, 65.)

I am currently reviewing the following study to consider a formula for women:
http://www.springerl...31/fulltext.pdf

The formula in the study, unlike Longevinex or other formulas, has Resveratrol, Quercetin, and Catechin in equal amounts.
For those who are interested, Inositol hexaphosphate (IP6) is not similar to Catechin. So this formula is not the same as any Longevinex formula, due to the fact it has equal amounts of all 3 ingredients while Longevinex does not, and it has Catechin, while Longevinex does not. This is just a simple fact.

The fact that this study has an "in Vitro" and an "in Vivo" study, really is interesting.

At this point, the formulation we are considering would be targeted for women: It would have Micronized resveratrol, Quercetin, and Catechin in equal amounts. My issue of course, is the amount that will fit into a Licaps capsule. The fact is that, it's certainly possible that all of these 3 ingredients may not fit at 250mg a piece into the liquid capsule. The amount in the study for the rodents comes out to about 5mg/kg of each of the ingredients, however they mentioned that 25mg/kg had no issues as well.

The formulation consideration then comes down to the Licaps space limitations:
=========================================================
Should I create a new formula, that cannot provide the adequate amounts of all these in one capsule (where a single dose is actually 3 or more capsules)

Or...

Continue to ask women to take our 250mg Licaps Micronized capsule, then purchase Quercetin at a very low price on iHerb.com, and to consider fresh green and black tea leaves as they have up to 25% of catechin (or strawberries).
=========================================================

Again, I would not get rid of our current Licap product, since very many folks do not take Quercetin, want to take it on their own with other ingredients they have already measured out, or have had measured out by their doctor. This would be a new formulation targeted at women for dietary purposes, of course.

I am open to suggestions at this point to make product specifically for women, I am also tempted to add Vitex (ie. Vitex agnus castus, Agnus castus, chaste tree, monk's pepper) to the formulation although it may affect oral contraception (maybe it is not a good idea).

Again, please chime in. I am interested as to what the folks in this forum has to say.

Cheers
A

The options seem to be:

A. Sell quercetin and catechin pills too, at 250 mg.

1. Blister pack of weekly dose, with three pills in the pack one of each kind.
2. Sell three bottles of equal amounts of each

B. Sell mixed capsules that require 3 pills at a time.

i read the study. i think:

- it's just more evidence that these hormetic (polyphenols, etc.) substances are synergistic in value.
- it lends credence to Protandim, Longivenix, etc. I actually check their websites now and then to see what their contents are, to double check what I am doing against their own pills.
- There is no reason to think that a pill like the RQC won't be extremely helpful to men with prostate cancer risk. I'm not sure why it would be a female designed product, other than for marketing purposes.
- I think there is also some good evidence (a study or two) that shows Olive Oil components inhibit the HER2 gene in a very significant way. You may want to look that up and include it, if HER2 inhibition is what you are going after.


rgds

pro

After looking at the study, I'm left with a question: What evidence is there that catechin is helpful, either alone or in combination with resveratrol/quercetin? As catechin concentrations were increased in the in vitro experiment, tumor cell progression increased rather than decreased. Both resveratrol and quercetin, when used independently, showed the (desirable) opposite dose response. The same problem showed up in breast cancer in vitro cell migration, where again catechin looked worse as concentration increased. It's also worth noting that the low concentration of both resveratrol and quercetin were also significantly worse than control, but at least the high (5uM) concentration was better for those.

Unfortunately, they didn't report any experiments where catechin was left out. That seems rather obvious, and would have been trivial to include in the in vitro work.

At this point, the target market for the RQC combination would seem to be women with breast cancer. In that situation, taking three pills instead of one would seem to be a non-issue. For healthy women, It's hard to say what would be best. Would this combination prevent breast cancer? Maybe, but that's a harder thing to prove.

Unfortunately, they didn't report any experiments where catechin was left out. That seems rather obvious, and would have been trivial to include in the in vitro work.

i had this takeaway also. it seem so stone cold obvious that one would pursue a non-catechin result. it was nice to see the synergistic effect clearly elucidated in the full RQC, but the authors are clearly morons for not having done this additional work.

Hi MissM, Niner, Max and Prophets,

thanks for the feedback. I think I am leaning toward capsules with different ingredients at about 250mg each. Seems like it would be easier to add them in at this dosage to be the same as our 250mg with micronized res.

Again the fact is that the formulation has equal amounts of all 3 ingredients, while I don't see this in other supplements. I also agree that it may be that Catechin maybe not be that helpful niner, while IP6 is an issue as well.

It appears we have a green light for Quercetin as a seperate capsule, and a caution for Catechin if taken by itself. Now... What is the best Quercetin that you have seen on the market?

So far it appears that if we add Quercetin to Medium Chain Triglecerydes (such as those found in Licaps) we can have an increase of about 38% in bioavailability, (well at least in pigs): http://journals.camb...ea5704c1f57a0b3

Now, I have to see if it is cost effective.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 May 2009 - 03:27 PM.

A Capsugel formulation is still being requested since we have a green light for Quercetin.
(yes these guys are slow at times...I have been waiting on this from Capsugel since my last post)

Hopefully we get something soon.

Cheers
A

Anthony, not to bring up old blood, but didn't you rail against Longevin** for a long time because they added quercetin and IP6? I know you changed it slightly, but you have to give that this reads as a slight concession to Longevine**'s approach.


Crep

A Capsugel formulation is still being requested since we have a green light for Quercetin.
(yes these guys are slow at times...I have been waiting on this from Capsugel since my last post)

Hopefully we get something soon.

Cheers
A

Thanks for the feedback. I think I am leaning toward capsules with different ingredients at about 250mg each.I didn't try Longevinex for my first attempt at taking resveratrol.After looking at the study, I'm left with a question: What evidence is there that catechin is helpful, either alone or in combination with resveratrol/quercetin?

Edited by Brainbox, 20 June 2009 - 12:00 PM.

Just an FYI:

The final result is that we now have an MCT and Quercetin Capsule that has 250mg for folks, so that they can take it in equal amounts to the other 250mg capsule of micronized resveratrol.

Our new recommendation for women over 35: 1 capsule MCT and Quercetin for every 1 capsule of the 250 micro res. (Yes the new product is low in price)

No concessions, the other product does not seem to provide enough Quercetin in their product to equal the amount of res offered in the same capsule. It's really a marketing issue as well now, since we all know how cheap Quercetin can be. We simply keep the price of Quercetin down, while shearing the particle size down between 20-30 microns and adding MCT to the formulation in a liquid Licaps capsule. In our formulation, we simply made regular Quercetin better and provide an increased amount over folks that try to combine all the ingredients into one pill.

*So although other folks will display the abnormal breast cell chart on their website, they do not explicitly tell you that the study had the animals take the equal amounts of both ingredients. They simply want to make the consumer take a leap of faith to believe that the formulation is similar to the one found in the study, when it simply is not the case.

The also say it's micronized... well if I take a page from the marketing that other folks use, then I could also say our MCT Quercetin is micronized as well, as the quercetin particles are sheared down to between 20-30 microns... however, I would consider a truly micronized product to actually have particles around 1-2 microns, like our Licaps with Micro Resveratrol have. But as many have already noticed... our marketing simply does not state that our Quercetin is micronized, even though other competitors may consider the product "Micronized" for marketing purposes, if they decided to produce it themselves.

As for Catechin, I believe folks here (as well as myself) now believe it is not helpful, as Niner pointed out, when catechin increased in the study it appeared that tumor cell progression also increased. We are not considering a catechin capsule. Maybe capsules with Catechin (or ingredients similar to Catechin) should be avoided

Thank you Niner, Maxwatt, Prophets and MissM for your input... it certainly helped develop this new Quercetin capsule.

Cheers
A

*As a natural herbal supplement these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. The resveratrol and quercetin are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 24 October 2009 - 04:04 PM.

I wanted to mention that I have been using the MCT-Q product for some weeks now and will probably include it in my regimen. I can say that it has increased my exercise ability and stamina. I cant say that I would consider it a performance enhancer any more than I would say the same about Resveratrol, however, there is something significant about them in combination, of course it could be placebo and without any labs is purely my opinion.

2tender,

I recently tried the Mastergene M16 capsules that we are now boxing up, with the micro res and MCT Quercetin. I have to say, that I believe the dose we suggest on the box is right on the mark.

As a side note: I personally experienced, what I believe was a vasodilator effect (like taking Niacin but without the flush effect) when taking a dose that was greater than the dose suggested on the box, it lasted between 15-30 minutes from what I recall, I repeated the exercise the next day finding the same effect. The ingredient reportedly is an herbal vasodilator much like Niacin is a vasodilator. Becasue of this we ask folks to treat it exactly like Niacin, and avoid certain blood pressure medications known as alpha-blockers (such as prazosin, doxazosin, and guanabenz) that you would also avoid when taking Niacin.

MGP16 (Mastergene M16) is not for everyone. In a study it activates P16, and may prove to work perfectly with resveratrol that has been shown to activate P53.

As a natural herbal supplement these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. MGP16, resveratrol and quercetin are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. We also make no claims for our products, any study talked about is simply for informational purposes, and simply presented for your consideration.


Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 December 2009 - 02:40 PM.

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Agreed, the Q-Res combination is backed by research. I feel the dose is correct. There are relevant studies on Q and Q-Res at ergo-log.com