‪We are a small Chicago start-up venture by two nootropic enthusiasts called Noetics Health dedicated to providing pure and affordable products. Pramiracetam is our initial focus due to the overpriced and under-supplied state of the current market.‬

Due to our current supply of Pramiracetam, we are currently only selling our product on eBay. However, we have a website under construction and are working to upgrade our facilities quickly so that we can supply bottles in varying doses on demand.

Here are links to our current auctions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=STRK:MESELX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=STRK:MESELX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=STRK:MESELX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=STRK:MESELX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=STRK:MESELX:IT

The Product:

Pramiracetam
N-[2-(diisopropylamino)ethyl]-2-(2-oxopyrrolidin-1-yl)acetamide

30 x 600mg Pharmaceutical Grade Capsules

Pramiracetam is an analogue of 'the original nootropic', piracetam and is reported to be 8 - 30 times more potent than piracetam. Pramiracetam enhances cognition and memory, slows brain aging, increases blood flow and oxygen to the brain, aids in recovery from strokes, ameliorate Alzheimer's, Down's syndrome, dementia and dyslexia, among other diseases and conditions.*

sales@noeticshealth.com

I'd actually be interested in this in a little bit. Bump even though it's a commercial thread. This way it's in my posting history and I can find it later. My only concern is the 0 feedback on ebay.

This post has been edited by bmud: Feb 4 2010, 01:34 PM

Right....the 0 feedback on e-bay is definitely suspicious. Maybe if the OP could provide us with samples to have them tested, that's help - otherwise, no thank you.

Also, smartpowders is cheaper.

Smartpowders doesn't say how much pram you get for $30. There's no picture or info...
I ordered mine from cerebralhealth. It cost me $120 for 100grms powder.

Hey everyone, thanks for bumping the thread. Here is the deal:

We are brand new and did not want to post this stuff under our personal eBay accounts, so we had to start a new one. Our personal accounts only have positive feedback for buying musical equipment anyway - we are both nootropic crazed musicians. We started making our own capsules a few months back and have been selling them to friends who don't feel like capping their own for $50 a bottle. At this point we buy our bulk stuff from Cerebral Health as well, so we aren't making a helluva a lot of money. I have been using "we" because there are two of us doing this, but now I am gonna switch to first person (Jeff).

I started capping my own pills because I wanted to take 1200mg a day without the other crap in smartpills and synaptine. Something makes me salivate profusely, it is very annoying, i drooled all over myself. We had some friends in a similar boat, so we started capping bottles for them and that is how this all got started. What we are doing is buying bulk powder, capping it all in one sitting, bottling it, selling it to our current personal customers and posting the remainder in eBay, partly hoping to make some money partly because we figured there was a demand.

If there is anything I can do to boost your confidence in us, please let me know. Once we are off the ground we hope to keep the supply steady and, if we get there, will possibly purchase a KG from DDLabs in China.

Based on your $39 bottles containing 18g of total Pramiracetam, your price would be about $55 for 25g, which SmartPowders sells for $30 (as does Cerebral Health)

For the difference in price ($25) on one order alone, someone could buy a Cap M Quick pill capping guide, and 1000 empty gel caps and do it themselves - plus have lots of empty gel caps left over, and a pill capping guide that has already paid for itself.

With a pill capping guide, it literally takes 3 or 4 minutes to create 50 capsules, so I don't see the argument against going this route.

If you're concerned about dosage, for reference, the empty 00 size gel caps fit about 400mg of Pramiracetam if you don't go the extra step of compressing the powder manually (which there's no reason to do unless you're trying to fit more than 400mg per capsule). Similarly, they fit about 750mg of Piracetam, or 200mg of CDP Choline. If you're REALLY concerned about dosage, you can order a cheap digital scale that does 10mg sensitivity for $10 on dealextreme.com, and they don't charge shipping (free shipping on everything).

Unless you have money to burn, I really can't see the purpose in every purchasing pre-capped nootropics. The time issue is essentially nullified if you grab a Cap M Quick machine, and the empty caps are like less than $1 per 60.

Sorry - that wasn't meant to be a knock on your Pramiracetam caps over anyone else's - you seem to have just as decent a price for capped Pramiracetam as anyone else.

Though I might be a bit cautious of purchasing Pram off ebay generally. I'm actually guessing you guys are using a pill capping machine like a Cap M Quick yourselves?

@Rhcan09, Yes, you got the whole operation figured out. It is indeed cheaper to purchase the pram and cap it yourself. We pack size 0 caps and use the manual packing twice per batch. I think the last time we weighed out the caps they were between 500 and 800mg a piece so we figured 600 was a safe enough average for labeling purposes. For me personally, I am not as concerned with the dose as I am with being able to take pure pram with nothing mixed in. This is why i started doing exactly what you have described above. As I said, we started selling bottles to friends for $50 because they thought that was a fair price and we ended up making a bit of our money back, allowing us to continue to order bulk supplies. We introduced the stuff on eBay for $39.99, hoping that you all would help us set a real world price. At $40 per bottle we would make about $70 profit on 100g of pram. Thats a modest number when you consider that we also have to purchase the bottles, the caps, the capping machine, labels + our own time capping these bad boys.

The way i see it is, if you just want pure pram pre-capped and don't mind paying for it, like any other supplement, try our stuff out! You will not be disappointed in the purity or the quality of the caps, you will have your pram readily available like any other supplement and, what the hell, two schmoes in Chicago might make some change. But, if you are willing to cap em' yourself, by all mean, cap all your shit! It is cheaper and not difficult!

This post has been edited by NoeticsHealth: Feb 6 2010, 08:04 PM

Whoa - 500 to 800 mg is an acceptable range for a label of "600mg" ??

See, those kind of liberties are why I would be so nervous to ever purchase a homemade (or even just home-packaged) supplement.

The implication of that range, is that at 3 caps per day, you could be taking anywhere from 1,500mg to 2,400mg. That's a huge variance, especially with a substance as potent as Pramiracetam.

I don't even understand that variance to be honest. When I cap my own pills casually, and even when I compress them quickly one-by-one using something rudimentary like a chopstick (which I don't generally bother doing anymore), I tend to get maybe 30 mg variance at the most.

That was mis-worded. I meant to express the variance of size 0 caps: http://www.bulkherbstore.com/Gelatin-Capsules-Size-0-

Our actuall pills have about the variance you mentioned they are weighed. ~20-30 mg. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

...i dont know wtf i was typing there on rereading, looks like i was thinking one thing and typing another. =/

Does this forum have an official or trusted tester? Seems like sending he/she a sample may be the best way to establish our credibility to you all.

If you are hand packing caps and selling them to consumers that's illegal. Just an FYI.

Unregulated chemicals? Can you point me to a reference?

.

This post has been edited by tritium: Feb 11 2010, 06:38 AM

I don't have anything to add to this discussion but I wanted to say I like the look of the label use guys using, aesthetically, really appealing for me.

If you're a new business that was started after May of 2007, you're required to be GMP compliant. Those companies that were around prior to 2007 were/are allowed to phase in their compliance depending on number of employee's. By June of this year EVERYONE must be compliant that sells nutritional supplements. Packing caps inside your house isn't GMP. If you were doing it for friends, that's one thing. If you're doing it as a commercial business, not legal.

MikeM, what about research purposes? I'm not quite near doing it yet (as I have a couple other goals to achieve first), but I have been kicking around a couple mixed supplement ideas (totally unrelated to nootropics). Naturally, I do not own a GMP facility and although I could afford to have one process my formula there are quantity limits. During the research phase and seeing if it is effective on people, I wouldn't want a run of 1000 bottles to find out the formula doesn't work and needs more tweaking. And then tweak it, run another 1000 and find out it still doesn't work. Etc, etc.

If one were just making 20 bottles at home with a Cap m' Quick and not selling them for profit, but giving them away for the purposes of surveying the formula's effectiveness, would that be legal?

You can make up whatever you want and do what you're doing. The problem comes when you're marketing a product and selling it. Once everything goes into place middle of the year, I fully expect the FDA (they've added a TON of employee's), to start enforcing these rules.

Thanks MikeM, I was under the impression that a chemical not being regulated by the FDA was fair game. Our plan was to see how things worked and to determine if there was a demand before getting an LLC and all the necessary certifications. We do work with a pharmacy technician and he seemed to be under the impression that eventually establishing a lab and all that would not be a huge deal... I've looked into this further and am under a different impression now.

So, much appreciated. We still have a couple of bottles.... anyone interested for "research purposes?"

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