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Imminst Charity Cryonics Fund


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Poll: Cryonics Charity Fund What Form? What Restrictions? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

What Form?

  1. Imminst & Venturists Create & Co-Manage One Fund (7 votes [24.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  2. Imminst Raises Money for the Venturists and they Administer the Fund (3 votes [10.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.34%

  3. New Imminst Fund (separate from any Venturist fund) (17 votes [58.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.62%

  4. Other (2 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

Criteria (for Imminst fund only)

  1. Available for Imminst Lifetime Members Only (5 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  2. Available to Lifetime, Honorary, and Regular Members only (5 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  3. Subject to Criteria Similar to the Venturists (see first post below) (7 votes [24.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  4. Available to all beings on a case-by-case evaluation (11 votes [37.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.93%

  5. Other (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

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#1 Mind

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:44 PM


After the William O'rights episode, many Imminst members and leaders were quite keen to develop a cryonics charity fund. There is now almost $1,000 seed money in this fund, thanks to some members who had given to the O'rights charity drive but whose donations were not used. A once a year funding drive could be created in order to build the fund. It has been suggested to use the most value-priced cryonics services in the world - to make the most of limited funds. Right now that would be Kriorus.

What needs to be decided are the guiding principles of the fund. This is a poll to gauge Imminst member/user opinion. This is not a referendum.

Venturist website. The Venturists are mentioned here because they have attempted to raise charity cryonics funds in the past.


Venturist Charity Criteria:


1. A person that was signed with a cryonics organization but lost their life insurance due to medical reasons

2. A person who had done a lot of public advocacy for cryonics and had recorded financial donations to causes that promoted cryonics research or advocacy, but had contracted an illness or died before they were able to set up life insurance and be signed up as a member with a cryonics organization

3. A person who wants to be cryonically preserved, but is unable to acquire life insurance due to documented medical reasons

4. A documented case of poverty where a person would not be able to acquire life insurance, or qualify for public welfare funds in an amount that would enable them to build up the amount needed for pre-payment of suspension over a reasonable amount of time in relation to their age and health

#2 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 02:03 AM

I think the cryonics charity fund should be limited to lifetime members, resources are finite and being a lifetime member means that you are serious about Imminst and life extension. I think a separate Imminst fund seems like an excellent idea, such a fund would likely create more attention for Imminst as well.

Most valuable is the best possible preservation, not just the cheapest, CI and Alcor are obviously currently far more well-established than Kriorus. Since CI is cheaper than Alcor it should be the choice.

Anyone who is a lifetime member at Imminst, gets an life-threatening illness ,and are (for whatever reason) unable to pay for their suspension, should qualify for the fund.

Since the goal of Imminst is to conquer involuntary death it should not only serve as a discussion forum and donate money to science, it should also actively work to prevent death amongst it's members like in the case of Bill O'Rights. Such a fund fits that description perfectly.

That's at least my opinion.

Edited by VictorBjoerk, 02 February 2010 - 02:05 AM.


#3 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 05:55 AM


Venturist Charity Criteria:


1. A person that was signed with a cryonics organization but lost their life insurance due to medical reasons

2. A person who had done a lot of public advocacy for cryonics and had recorded financial donations to causes that promoted cryonics research or advocacy, but had contracted an illness or died before they were able to set up life insurance and be signed up as a member with a cryonics organization

3. A person who wants to be cryonically preserved, but is unable to acquire life insurance due to documented medical reasons

4. A documented case of poverty where a person would not be able to acquire life insurance, or qualify for public welfare funds in an amount that would enable them to build up the amount needed for pre-payment of suspension over a reasonable amount of time in relation to their age and health


Cases of #4 and especially #3 most seriously merit my interest in contributing. I know this is being proposed as a member benefit but we obviously aren't going to make it something like: don't bother signing up for cryonics, just join imminst and if there's enough money in the fund when you need it, we'll cover you. On the other hand people like James Swayze and Mark McAllister seem like immortalists worthy of a boost considering the unfortunate hands they've been dealt.

I would support something like additional coverage that would pay for ancillary expenses such as transportation, government red tape, etc for those who already had their own funded contract. That would make a lot more sense to me than these other proposals.

#4 Mind

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 06:44 PM

Lol, 97 people viewed the poll but only 11 voted. I would like to see a higher percentage of votes.

#5 JediMasterLucia

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 10:10 AM

Maybe you could send a mass PM to let all the members know that they could vote on this poll?

#6 bacopa

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:19 AM

I like the Venturists criteria for suspension. I really think people who want a chance should indeed be able to get this second chance.

#7 robomoon

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:22 PM

1immorta@... posted http://groups.yahoo....ts/message/1124 on Jan 29, 2010, with subject: Less expensive cryonics storage. Parts of the message: If Society of Universal Immortalism or someone personnaly will collect money for some of us who cant pay for himself, we are ready to accept: 10 neuro patients for $3000 each or 10 head only patiens for $5000 each...

Jan 30, 2010, parts of my response: ...can there be a contract with terms to allow a pre-payment of approximately $500 receivable by CryoFreedom to reserve the right on cryopreservation...? ...it will be kindly appreciated if terms from a contract with CryoFreedom can grant immediate membership and reserve a later coverage of neuro suspension which is becoming due from the date of the accomplished payment...

--

1immorta@... posted http://groups.yahoo....ts/message/1127 on Jan 31, 2010: In CryoFreedom we think about kind of insurance you pay us monthly to get an instant coverage for cryonics storage in Voronezh (amount of 50$\month...

Feb 1, 2010, parts of my response: ...great to being supported by cryonics storage in Voronezh for 50$\month. Considering the excessively high bank fees for an international money transfer, I feel, some approximated rates for yearly payments would be even better to anyone, but still affordable. Avoiding monthly bank fees, something in the range of 800$\year would be a more economic instalment to the payer yet. That would be $800 at first, same for two following years, and the remainder for the final year to settle the sum of $3000. Since an accrued interest must offset the avoided monthly payments, a remainder of $800 instead of $600 should be preferrable... ...Regarding KrioRus' bank information, it doesn't fit correctly into the international money transfer form from a German bank, because I got one in cyrillic letters and another one which address from the Russian bank I can't comprehend; I don't find out where's the bank's street and...

--

When someone is fairly insolvent, cannot purchase a life insurance, and has less than $1000 to spend at once, Immortality Institute should be there to support negotiations with a Russian cryonics provider. See the above parts from my messages I posted at the Venturists discussion group.

#8 brokenportal

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 10:54 PM

I think I still like the lifetime member idea. Caliban says it would probably look to much like a trust or start nearing an insurance agency. I think that if we word it right that we can avoid that. We would expound on the stipulation that this fund isnt a gaurantee to anybody and that its up to the board to decide how money is granted. Would it make members sign up because they think that if they get hit by a bus we'll have them frozen? Well, the wording will state that thats not the case, and if members are joining for that reason, then I dont think they would have any more doubts once the next person was granted money, and didnt receive the whole amount. If we give John Doe $2,000 toward his freezing and he cant raise the rest, then everybody from then on out will know exactly what this fund is. Offering it to just lifetime members, it seems, would help add substance to imminst, really help add to our feeling of being dynamic and growing. Offering it to anybody who qualifies it seems wouldnt strengthen us, but only add more tasks for us to manage, and in that case it seems like we may as well just leave it up to the Venturists then.

I think we could offer it to lifetimemembers, and to people that meet the qualifications that the Venturists outline. If we do it that way then it seems that rather than a partnership with a possible shared bank account, it would be better to just form a stronger affiliation with them.

If we go with just what the venturists stipulate as conditions for qualification and if they want to partner, then from what I can see at this point, what we might want to do is, have the cryonics back up fundraiser page go to the venturists bank account, have them report that along with our accounting, and then link to their application from our tab bar, and where ever else we might advertise it. In the tab bar, what some of us have been talking about proposing, is to have a "cryonics" tab, that goes to a content management page that lists all the provider links, with links to their applications right next to them. Then also a link to the venturists application on that page as well. We could discuss with the Venturists the possibility of calling it say, "Imminst and Venturist cryonics hardship fund. Apply Here"

I called the Venturists today. They seem supportive of the idea. I was hoping to get them into skype for our next meeting but they dont have it. When they email or call I think Ill direct them to this topic here.

#9 brokenportal

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 11:01 PM

1immorta@... posted http://groups.yahoo....ts/message/1124 on Jan 29, 2010, with subject: Less expensive cryonics storage. Parts of the message: If Society of Universal Immortalism or someone personnaly will collect money for some of us who cant pay for himself, we are ready to accept: 10 neuro patients for $3000 each or 10 head only patiens for $5000 each...

Jan 30, 2010, parts of my response: ...can there be a contract with terms to allow a pre-payment of approximately $500 receivable by CryoFreedom to reserve the right on cryopreservation...? ...it will be kindly appreciated if terms from a contract with CryoFreedom can grant immediate membership and reserve a later coverage of neuro suspension which is becoming due from the date of the accomplished payment...

--

1immorta@... posted http://groups.yahoo....ts/message/1127 on Jan 31, 2010: In CryoFreedom we think about kind of insurance you pay us monthly to get an instant coverage for cryonics storage in Voronezh (amount of 50$\month...

Feb 1, 2010, parts of my response: ...great to being supported by cryonics storage in Voronezh for 50$\month. Considering the excessively high bank fees for an international money transfer, I feel, some approximated rates for yearly payments would be even better to anyone, but still affordable. Avoiding monthly bank fees, something in the range of 800$\year would be a more economic instalment to the payer yet. That would be $800 at first, same for two following years, and the remainder for the final year to settle the sum of $3000. Since an accrued interest must offset the avoided monthly payments, a remainder of $800 instead of $600 should be preferrable... ...Regarding KrioRus' bank information, it doesn't fit correctly into the international money transfer form from a German bank, because I got one in cyrillic letters and another one which address from the Russian bank I can't comprehend; I don't find out where's the bank's street and...

--

When someone is fairly insolvent, cannot purchase a life insurance, and has less than $1000 to spend at once, Immortality Institute should be there to support negotiations with a Russian cryonics provider. See the above parts from my messages I posted at the Venturists discussion group.


Im not sure if Im catching all your points here, can you rephrase this? With neuro preservations, it seems like we should try to work that in to a possible imminst cryo hardship application so that people can try to get at least that.

As for paying $500 for the right of cryopreservation, Im not sure if this is what you mean, but I think that many providers do that for free by offering this Declaration of Intent type of thing.

#10 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 12:06 AM

I think I still like the lifetime member idea. Caliban says it would probably look to much like a trust or start nearing an insurance agency. I think that if we word it right that we can avoid that. We would expound on the stipulation that this fund isnt a gaurantee to anybody and that its up to the board to decide how money is granted. Would it make members sign up because they think that if they get hit by a bus we'll have them frozen? Well, the wording will state that thats not the case, and if members are joining for that reason, then I dont think they would have any more doubts once the next person was granted money, and didnt receive the whole amount. If we give John Doe $2,000 toward his freezing and he cant raise the rest, then everybody from then on out will know exactly what this fund is. Offering it to just lifetime members, it seems, would help add substance to imminst, really help add to our feeling of being dynamic and growing. Offering it to anybody who qualifies it seems wouldnt strengthen us, but only add more tasks for us to manage, and in that case it seems like we may as well just leave it up to the Venturists then.

I think we could offer it to lifetimemembers, and to people that meet the qualifications that the Venturists outline. If we do it that way then it seems that rather than a partnership with a possible shared bank account, it would be better to just form a stronger affiliation with them.

If we go with just what the venturists stipulate as conditions for qualification and if they want to partner, then from what I can see at this point, what we might want to do is, have the cryonics back up fundraiser page go to the venturists bank account, have them report that along with our accounting, and then link to their application from our tab bar, and where ever else we might advertise it. In the tab bar, what some of us have been talking about proposing, is to have a "cryonics" tab, that goes to a content management page that lists all the provider links, with links to their applications right next to them. Then also a link to the venturists application on that page as well. We could discuss with the Venturists the possibility of calling it say, "Imminst and Venturist cryonics hardship fund. Apply Here"

I called the Venturists today. They seem supportive of the idea. I was hoping to get them into skype for our next meeting but they dont have it. When they email or call I think Ill direct them to this topic here.


Agree with everything.

#11 robomoon

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:40 PM

As for paying $500 for the right of cryopreservation, Im not sure if this is what you mean, but I think that many providers do that for free by offering this Declaration of Intent type of thing.


The point is that Alexei Potapov has posted an offer to the Venturists discussion group. The offer from the Russian organization CryoFreedom stands for a $3000 cryonics neuro storage in Voronezh/Russia. It requires a payment of 50$ per month (for a 30 y.o. person). It's like an insurance, so a fairly older person must pay a higher rate.

Yet, a monthly payment of 50$ per month is impractical for those who live in countries like Germany who are far away from Russia. That's because of the high bank fees for international money transfer which costs probably more than $15 per payment. So the terms disclosed by CryoFreedom should be changed to allow annual payments. In case of the bank information from KrioRus, there are two numbers next to a BIK clearing code. Therefore, they should confirm which of them is the number of the allocation account. That would help to make the transfer easyer. In case the money goes to a different bank account owned by CryoFreedom, they should also confirm which one is the right allocation account number. If they can tell the bank's address, that would be perfect.

In order to get the above mentioned bank information and allowance for yearly payments, it looks as if it would be the best when something can be approached by negotiations with CryoFreedom or KrioRus. Imminst should help to make it happen. So if there would be an Imminst cryo hardship application, it should support at least two choices suitable for cryonics storage in Voronezh/Russia. The 1st choice helps when a receiver of the cryo hardship grant isn't completely unable to pay some money. So the receiver of the hardship grant must pay the $3000 (for neuro storage) in annual installments of something from $600 up to $1000 per year instead of the above mentioned monthly payments ($50 in this case). The 2nd choice is that Imminst pays the $3000 directly from a hardship fund which helps when a receiver of the hardship grant is completely unable to pay some money at all.

A Declaration of Intent is no contract which definately grants the right for cryopreservation. Therefore, a contract for cryo in Russia should contain a clause like this: The client is granted the right to receive cryo preservation when the provider has received the $3000 fee paid off by the client or client's sponsor.

Edited by robomoon, 05 February 2010 - 06:43 PM.


#12 brokenportal

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 10:27 PM

The point is that Alexei Potapov has posted an offer to the Venturists discussion group. The offer from the Russian organization CryoFreedom stands for a $3000 cryonics neuro storage in Voronezh/Russia. It requires a payment of 50$ per month (for a 30 y.o. person). It's like an insurance, so a fairly older person must pay a higher rate.


So if you pay them $3,000 then when you die, if somebody brings you there, then they will freeze your brain? What if you have made 10 payments of $50.00 and then you get hit by a bus? Will they still freeze you then?

Yet, a monthly payment of 50$ per month is impractical for those who live in countries like Germany who are far away from Russia. That's because of the high bank fees for international money transfer which costs probably more than $15 per payment. So the terms disclosed by CryoFreedom should be changed to allow annual payments. In case of the bank information from KrioRus, there are two numbers next to a BIK clearing code. Therefore, they should confirm which of them is the number of the allocation account. That would help to make the transfer easyer. In case the money goes to a different bank account owned by CryoFreedom, they should also confirm which one is the right allocation account number. If they can tell the bank's address, that would be perfect.


Hmm, those are good ideas and points. If somebody is making their payment, but die before completing it, they sound like they would make a good candidate for help from this potential imminst hardship fund. What though if they were making their payments, then say, missed them for 4 months, you know, that kind of thing. We'll have to ask ourselves if they qualify in situations like that.

In order to get the above mentioned bank information and allowance for yearly payments, it looks as if it would be the best when something can be approached by negotiations with CryoFreedom or KrioRus. Imminst should help to make it happen. So if there would be an Imminst cryo hardship application, it should support at least two choices suitable for cryonics storage in Voronezh/Russia. The 1st choice helps when a receiver of the cryo hardship grant isn't completely unable to pay some money. So the receiver of the hardship grant must pay the $3000 (for neuro storage) in annual installments of something from $600 up to $1000 per year instead of the above mentioned monthly payments ($50 in this case). The 2nd choice is that Imminst pays the $3000 directly from a hardship fund which helps when a receiver of the hardship grant is completely unable to pay some money at all.


I think we will likely end up offering this through any cryo provider across the board if this goes through. Im not sure if we would want to micromanage each different scenerio, but rather try to make it subject from case to case, but be open to all scenerios. We'll probably also want to make clear that we reserve the right to deny any applicant for any reason or something like that. We dont want people to depend on this fund, if its created, in any way. Im not saying your saying that, Im just reiterating that again for this context.

A Declaration of Intent is no contract which definately grants the right for cryopreservation. Therefore, a contract for cryo in Russia should contain a clause like this: The client is granted the right to receive cryo preservation when the provider has received the $3000 fee paid off by the client or client's sponsor.


Isnt that already the case? Or are you saying that people might want to reserve certain deals, and that these deals might not be available later?

Part of the way that I imagine the bulk of this going, if this goes through, is that we wouldnt be granting out very many large amounts of the total at all, and less so the more expensive the package that the person wants is. I imagine we would want to align this so we'll be giving out mostly around, $2,000 matchers to people that already have around $2,000 more, and then their people can match us by raising another $2,000, that general price range. If they are going for a $150,000 package, then if they qualify, they may get say, around $2,000, or maybe like, a $20,000 loan to be paid back or something like that.

#13 robomoon

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 04:49 PM

The point is that Alexei Potapov has posted an offer to the Venturists discussion group. The offer from the Russian organization CryoFreedom stands for a $3000 cryonics neuro storage in Voronezh/Russia. It requires a payment of 50$ per month (for a 30 y.o. person). It's like an insurance, so a fairly older person must pay a higher rate.


So if you pay them $3,000 then when you die, if somebody brings you there, then they will freeze your brain? What if you have made 10 payments of $50.00 and then you get hit by a bus? Will they still freeze you then?


Yes, CryoFreedom's client pays them $3,000 and if transportation to Moscow/Russia happens, they will freeze the client's brain.

CryoFreedom works like an insurance. So if their client has made 10 payments of $50.00 and then gets hit by a bus, they will still freeze the client then. Thus, CryoFreedom must bear the incomplete payment and the Imminst hardship fund would not be needed to pay the remaining dues.

If a client were making the payments, then say, missed them for 4 months, an agreement for annual payments would help.

A Declaration of Intent is no contract to reserve all the deals necessary for cryo from a specific provider. A contract grants the right for those deals with a clause like this: The client is granted the right to receive cryo preservation when the provider has received the $3000 fee paid off by the client or client's sponsor.

The following clause adds something like an insurance to the contract: if the client has made payments of at least $50.00 and then dies unexpectedly, the provider will still freeze the client then.

The above examples I mentioned are realistic if the initiator of CryoFreedom, Alexei Potapov, would agree that they are OK. So far, I also tried negotiations about cheap cryonics with Danila Medvedev from KrioRus and I hope something can be continued as well.

Edited by robomoon, 06 February 2010 - 04:49 PM.


#14 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:29 PM

I'd love to see more of our members vote on this as the Venturists have been approached about helping either fund ImmInst's Cryonics Charity Fund or running a joint fund. So far the voting has shown that our members would like us to have our own fund and I can see the benefits of that in many areas. Mind, would you be able to send out a mass PM for this poll?

#15 Mind

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:20 PM

I'd love to see more of our members vote on this as the Venturists have been approached about helping either fund ImmInst's Cryonics Charity Fund or running a joint fund. So far the voting has shown that our members would like us to have our own fund and I can see the benefits of that in many areas. Mind, would you be able to send out a mass PM for this poll?


It will be in the newsletter mass email late tomorrow.

#16 Luna

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:24 AM

Personally I'd love a Cryonics fund. I kinda roll eyes on the "Lifetime members only" but that's only because I am not one yet, can't afford to donate 100$ when I am still without any job or stable life at all :/
I am not sure who the Venturists are.

#17 JediMasterLucia

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 05:02 PM

I agree with Luna, I think it should be available for other paying members too, maybe some of use are paying members/donating for years.

#18 David Styles

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:31 PM

Personally I'd love a Cryonics fund. I kinda roll eyes on the "Lifetime members only" but that's only because I am not one yet, can't afford to donate 100$ when I am still without any job or stable life at all :/
I am not sure who the Venturists are.


It's $500 for lifetime membership, unless I missed some change.

The Venturists are an organisation aimed at helping its members avoid autopsy (thus improving their Cryonics chances).

#19 David Styles

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:34 PM

I agree with Luna, I think it should be available for other paying members too, maybe some of use are paying members/donating for years.


If someone has been paying annual dues for ten years (or donated the equivalent), I guess they have contributed as much financially as a lifetime member.

I think the problem is if a minimum is not set, then people may just join at the moment of impending crisis to get the fund, rather than join ImmInst to support ImmInst here and now - the former being understandable, but not really what we want to incentivise.

Tricky.

Edited by David Styles, 09 February 2010 - 06:39 PM.


#20 Luna

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:06 PM

Personally I'd love a Cryonics fund. I kinda roll eyes on the "Lifetime members only" but that's only because I am not one yet, can't afford to donate 100$ when I am still without any job or stable life at all :/
I am not sure who the Venturists are.


It's $500 for lifetime membership, unless I missed some change.

The Venturists are an organisation aimed at helping its members avoid autopsy (thus improving their Cryonics chances).


Well that's worse for me then O_o 500$ is a lot, especially if you don't have a job.

#21 David Styles

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:27 PM

Personally I'd love a Cryonics fund. I kinda roll eyes on the "Lifetime members only" but that's only because I am not one yet, can't afford to donate 100$ when I am still without any job or stable life at all :/
I am not sure who the Venturists are.


It's $500 for lifetime membership, unless I missed some change.

The Venturists are an organisation aimed at helping its members avoid autopsy (thus improving their Cryonics chances).


Well that's worse for me then O_o 500$ is a lot, especially if you don't have a job.


Indeed.

As I say, it's tricky; it's to be used in cases of hardship, yet it's also important to safeguard against people using as an excuse for apathy and taking liberties (not speaking of you, but in concept). That way the fund will be there for genuines cases of hardship. But paradoxically it seems this might mean some show of comittment and the most measurable thing is money, though I daresay some criteria like the Venturists' that include acting for a person who has for example volunteered a lot of time and effort would work well too.

What do you think of that?

#22 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 08:50 PM

I'm a board member of the Venturists, sorry the Venturist website is not updated--but David explained the organization well. They will raise money to help pay the suspension fee of a person who was unable to get life insurance due to financial hardship, or health problems. They look at whether or not that person has done advocacy of cryonics, been supportive publicly-or in the past donated to funds that are supportive. They also will raise money for a cryonicist who was signed with any of the cryonics organizations, had life insurance but lost their insurance due to health problems. I think that if ImmInst sets up a fund, we will have to decide on some parameters but also will have to decide if we want the board, leadership, or all membership to vote on any qualifying person.

#23 brokenportal

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 02:21 AM

How about, we connect a dedicated spot in the accounting software to the page at http://imminst.org/f...embercryobackup (text for that page is proposed here, and can be adjusted) We can change that name, maybe, /cryofund, then how about if we put an application in the member section, but leave it open to the stipulation of the venturists like you guys are saying. We could then promote the fund to get people to donate to it, and we could then let the Venturists put together the main efforts to find people that need the help. It would give them another project like they seem to indicate a need for, and allow us to get around the business of working out a set of qualifications, and also allow us to sort of make it for members. Non members wont be able to see the application.

I also like the idea of trying to get more organizations to share forum space. How about if we put a stipulation on it that we'll let them use the fund if they agree to put a forum tab on their page that leads to a "Longevity Communities Network" block section in imminst that leads to a sub forum there called "Venturist Society"?

#24 bacopa

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 03:35 AM

How about, we connect a dedicated spot in the accounting software to the page at http://imminst.org/f...embercryobackup (text for that page is proposed here, and can be adjusted) We can change that name, maybe, /cryofund, then how about if we put an application in the member section, but leave it open to the stipulation of the venturists like you guys are saying. We could then promote the fund to get people to donate to it, and we could then let the Venturists put together the main efforts to find people that need the help. It would give them another project like they seem to indicate a need for, and allow us to get around the business of working out a set of qualifications, and also allow us to sort of make it for members. Non members wont be able to see the application.

I also like the idea of trying to get more organizations to share forum space. How about if we put a stipulation on it that we'll let them use the fund if they agree to put a forum tab on their page that leads to a "Longevity Communities Network" block section in imminst that leads to a sub forum there called "Venturist Society"?


That sounds like a nice collaboration. So the Venturists would work in tandem with imminst for this cryo back up fundraiser for members meeting the right criteria for suspension? So the leadership team of this cryofund would be composed of Venturist people plus imminst leadership? Do I have that right?

How would our cryofund pay the long term suspension fees if we don't work hand in hand with life insurance companies?

And your proposing a marketing idea where other longevity orgs could advertise on us on their forum tabs in exchange for being able to use the fund for cryo preservation, that sounds like it would work well.

#25 s123

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 12:20 AM

I'm wondering if it would be possible to expand the scope of this fund to provide an alternative way of funding a cryopreservation? Members who join this fund would pay a certain donation each month or year for the rest of their lives (or we could set an upper limit like untill 65 years old). And when someone who joined this fund dies, the institute takes care of his cryopreservation. So, the institute would act as some kind of insurance fund for cryonics. This fund would probably be cheaper for the members than a normal insurance fund because we don't have to make profit (only break even) and we don't have to pay employees. Is this legally possible?

#26 blackbox

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:51 AM

I think the real obstacle is trust issue.

Edited by blackbox, 29 March 2010 - 01:51 AM.


#27 brokenportal

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 12:12 PM

I'm wondering if it would be possible to expand the scope of this fund to provide an alternative way of funding a cryopreservation? Members who join this fund would pay a certain donation each month or year for the rest of their lives (or we could set an upper limit like untill 65 years old). And when someone who joined this fund dies, the institute takes care of his cryopreservation. So, the institute would act as some kind of insurance fund for cryonics. This fund would probably be cheaper for the members than a normal insurance fund because we don't have to make profit (only break even) and we don't have to pay employees. Is this legally possible?



Thats an excellent idea in concept. If we can draw up how it might work in numbers, and looked at it then I think theres a chance we might see how it could work. How many people would have to give how much per month to maintain x income, how much would we have to keep on reserve, etc.. Theres probably a slim chance the numbers will line up and favor us doing this but I think its worth looking at the numbers.

#28 bacopa

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 12:29 PM

I thought it was a good idea too because the payments over a lifetime would really contribute to paying for these expensive suspensions, but as you said we have to check the numbers.

#29 s123

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 08:31 PM

They suddenly refuse for whatever reason to pay for cryonics and find a way to justify it in court?


From: So how many here signed up to cryonics (http://www.imminst.o...&st=20&start=20)

This is another reason why a 'general' cryonics fund run by Imminst would be a good idea. An insurance company could for some reason cause problems in paying your cryopreservation when you died but Imminst on the other hand would not do this.

We could make our fund much more flexible then the traditional insurance companies. For example if a student joins when he's 20 years old we could give him the first 5 years a lower fee and increase the fee after this (when he's graduated). If we decide that people have to pay for this fund for their whole lives (the other possibility is an upper limit like 65 years like many insurance companies do) then we could maybe decrease the fee a little bit when the person passes a certain age for example 65. If someone dies who has been a member of this fund and the total amount of donated money is bigger then what is needed for his cryopreservation then the rest could be considered a gift to the cryonics fund (this would for example be included in each contract). This money could then be used to provide a cryopreservation to members who couldn't get one because of some reason (the initial intention of this fund). We could give the members of this fund the opportunity to choose the cryonics provider themselves but the monthly or annual fee will depend on their choice.

Edited by s123, 29 March 2010 - 08:57 PM.


#30 s123

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:14 PM

I just learned that a problem in Belgian law could cause serious problems for cryopreservation financed by a life insurance. The law states that a when someone or an organization is the recipient of a life insurance over 50.000 euro that the inheritance tax is increased to 45%. This means that the current life insurances for cryonics don't have enough money in them. Because the government cannot claim CI or ALCOR to pay this, the other heirs will be forced to pay the inheritance tax (47.500 euro). The only option is to donate to money when you are still alive to the cryonics provider, tax 7%, but then you have to pay the complete cost in one time.

The Imminst cryonics fund could circumvent this because the institute would pay the cryopreservation with money that was donated by the patient but was not his own money any more after donating it.

This also points to a second benifit of the cryonics fund. In past years some family members have tried to stop a cryopreservation in order to receive the life insurance themselves. This would not be possible with the Imminst cryonics fund because all money given by the member, while he was alive, is considered a donation to Imminst and thus cannot be asked back.




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