• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans


Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.


Photo
- - - - -

running out of time


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 jerusha

  • Guest
  • 3 posts
  • 0

Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:43 AM


Hie. I think the chances of finding success in prolong our lifespans are slim to none in this generation/our lifetime. the only way we can do it is to go all out. we need to be really driven by it. we need to advertise the whole concept of ageing, gerontology, etc.
how about reaching out to thanatophobiacs, spreading the word to every website, forwarding an email about gerontology and such(of course, some might be new to the concept to it's best not to delve into it deeply)?
when i was first desperate to find a way to alleviate death, i thought it was the most bizzare idea. i searched on the net but nothing came up. only 2 months later did i stumble across this(wonderful!) site and dr.aubrey's article. i had given up all hope of finding like-minded people when i would have given every ounce of energy i had, i was so desperate.
we(or I) really need to take a leap of faith and make sacrifices. i can't be bothered to enjoy life(reading novels or stuff) anymore. maybe it's because i'm so new to the concept and i probably sound like a ranting fool...but we really are quite far away from preventing death. sure, we've made progress but it would be an illusion to claim we're close.
we need grants, funds, research, public knowledge open to those interested, *everyone* participating in it. if we could get a quarter of the world dedicated or somehow involved, maybe not directly, with this i'm sure immortality is within our grasp.
i'm sorry if i sound dumb, if this topic has been brought up or if i'm just ignorant but i sense an overall aura of relaxation here which i envy. you guys are so smart, if we could just somehow work our asses off i'm sure anything's possible. *phew*

#2 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,090 posts
  • 2,003
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:48 AM

You don't sound dumb. Thanks for the prodding. We all need to work harder.

#3 jaydfox

  • Guest
  • 6,214 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 09 December 2004 - 01:15 PM

I hate to use such an iconic image of death as a metaphor for life, but consider the nuclear bomb. 100 years ago, such a thing wasn't even considered possible. Perhaps in the minds of a few eccentric and brilliant scientists it was conceivable...

But for the most part, if anyone believed a hundred years ago that a bomb weighing about as much as a person, or even as much as a dog, could release the equivalent of small mountain's worth of TNT in explosive force and heat, then that person was the equivalent of today's mystics who speak of immortality and divine light and spirituality and higher planes of existence. "Oh, of course such a bomb is possible. If you could bottle God's divine wrath, you could build such a bomb!", or "When cosmic forces come together, positive and negative, like opposite charges, they accelerate and collide with unimaginable force!"

Nonsense, essentially. But then, just a tad under 100 years ago, Einstein published his special theory of relativity. In that work, and in the scientific debate that followed, it became increasingly clear that if we could convert matter to energy directly, we really could release billions times more energy per kilogram than TNT.

But this was all just theoretical; no practical application of this would be possible, right? Well, I don't know how long it took for the scientists of the day to put two and two together, but it wasn't very long. It was known at the time that fission resulted in the production of isotopes that did not add up to the mass of the fissioned atom. And a lot of energy was released. Here then was a mechanism that fit Einstein's theory. And more importantly, it suggested a way to extract that unbelievable amount of energy.

Of course, rather than billions times more energy per kilogram, fission only releases tens of millions times more energy. Not as impressive, but I guess millions times more powerful than the most powerful explosives of the day would have to suffice.

Now there were other useful applications of nuclear energy: well, nuclear power plants for one. But I'll use the bomb, because it was considered less possible than nuclear power plants. I mean, they knew that highly purified radioactive materials get warm, so it was not a stretch to foresee nuclear power plants. But a bomb? Controlling that which was known to be a slow, random process?

It took a war to actually turn that idea into fruition. Even as the bomb was being designed and built, many people, including many prominent scientists, doubted it could be done. Some for scientific reasons, but many for practical, engineering-based reasons.

Yet the bomb was completed.

We are at the equivalent of the latter half of the first decade of the 20th century, those first five years after 1905. I liken Einstein's paper on relativity (later "special" relativity) to Dr. de Grey's announcement of SENS. I liken yesterday's radioactivity to today's biotechnology and nanotechnology. Pioneers such as Robert Freitas are taking concepts such as those in SENS (though I don't know if he was inspired by SENS or came up with it on his own), and devising plans for using nanotechnology to control aging, and even to prevent death itself, at least up to a limit.

But most of the people in the world, including prominent scientists, are doubting that controlling aging, let alone controlling death, is possible. And nothing short of a "war" is going to accelerate the research enough for people in their 40's and older to see aging controlled. Or worse, those of us in our 20's might not even live to see it.

Now that war could be the result of a social security crisis. Or it could be an actual war, between or within nations. But I'd rather see it be a focused public war on aging itself: the casualties would be less troubling. You know, just the 150,000 people who die every day from aging anyway, whether the war is being fought or not. Aging is at war with us, and up until now, we've been holding sit-ins, letting the tanks of senescence roll over us. And I'll tell you something: the sit-ins aren't working. Aging is a cold, ruthless killer. It doesn't care if we aren't fighting back.

It's time to fight back. We need our own nuclear bomb.

That's where the Methuselah Mouse Prize comes in. It's not the only effort that might work; in fact, the more such grand plans that the anti-aging community can come up with, the better. Because nothing short of grand plans are going to work quickly enough. Given another 20 years, biotechnology will have progressed so far that it will no longer be a silly idea to stop aging. But if we wait 20 years before we start even trying, that's lost time. Granted, the technology will be more advanced, so I doubt that a 20 year delay in starting the research will result in a 20 year delay in the cure(s) for aging. But a 20 year delay might mean a 5 or 10 year delay in the cure. And 5 or 10 years is quarter of a billion lives or more.

If, by the end of this decade, the Methuselah Mouse Prize could only come up with a million dollars of funds (and perhaps another five to ten million dollars in long-term pledges), and if that small prize could bring a cure for aging even one month sooner, five million lives could be saved. That would $0.20--just twenty cents--per life saved.

Think of how much money the government is spending on cancer research. In the U.S., it's over six billion dollars of federal money, not counting all the state and private money, which could easily bring the total to be a 10-digit number: $10,000,000,000 or more. And think of how many lives are being saved with that money. Tens of thousands? Maybe hundreds of thousands per year? We're looking at $100,000 or more per life saved.

But are those lives truly saved? If a person lives an extra ten years, is that the same as giving someone another thousand years? If we counted in terms of life-years, money spent on curing aging not only saves more lives, it saves more life-years.

Why even bother giving money to the American Heart Association, the American Cancer Socity, or the American Diabetes Association? Sure, I would rather that someone gave to one of these great causes than to give the money to Walmart. But in the greater scheme of things, it's really not much better, is it? If we're going to use the nuclear bomb analogy, think of Walmart as a firecracker, the AHA or the ACS as a grenade, and the Methuselah Mouse Prize as a a nuclear bomb.

Money that goes to Walmart eventually comes back out, as a paycheck, or an investment in new Walmart locations, or in an investment in the stock martket. That money will eventually find its way to into the biotech sector, one way or another, and by extension help in the war on aging. But like I said, it's just a firecracker. Money to the AHA, the ACS, or the ADA, might help more directly.

But aging is too big a foe to fight with grenades. Grenades may as well be firecrackers. We need nukes. We need nanotech, of the sort envisioned by Robert Freitas. We need biotech, of the sort envisioned by Dr. Aubrey de Grey. While I'm not sure how to accelerate the progress of nanotech, I am sure that the Methuselah Mouse Prize is one way--currently [I]the[I] way--of accelerating biotech.

I apologize if this turned into a rant. Jerusha, you are right. The only way we will get there in time is if we go all out. And there are too many excuses being used by society to not pursue real anti-aging medicine. The MMP will help expose one of those excuses: that it isn't possible. Once it is demonstrated that it's possible--in mammals, since it's already been done in nematodes and flies--then that excuse goes away. The next closely related excuse is that it will take too long, so why bother? But that's the beauty of the MMP. The Longevity Prize shows that long life is possible. But the Rejuvination Prize will help show that, not only is aging slowable, but that it's possible to slow aging in middle-aged mice, and by extension, middle-aged people. If a 40-year-old sees that in 20-30 years, we could dramatically slow aging, then that 40-year-old can look forward to a day when, at the age of 60 to 70, they can be given extra decades. Not years, but decades. Isn't that worth fighting for? More to the point, what does that do to the excuse that "it won't be done in time for me"?

Other excuses remain: over-population, social security and retirement, family structures, religion. Yet each of these questions is already being tackled by the anti-aging community, and the answers to those questions also seem to expose those excuses as just that: they're not reasons, they're excuses. Expose an excuse, and people will be forced to withdraw it or admit hypocrisy.

Okay, end of rant... I think I'll keep working on it and post it at my website, however...

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#4 jerusha

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 3 posts
  • 0

Posted 09 December 2004 - 03:45 PM

thanks, mind.

jaydfox, wow. you're right.
but the thing is, a nuclear bomb is way different than immortality. once you have gunpowder, missiles, ...bombs are within your reach.
but our cells were *made* to die. that's what i think, and i think that's what nature intended it to be.
we weren't meant to live to a 100, no living, moving animal lives more than 200. the world would be way overpopulated if it were so.
but i'm not going to listen to nature or my body. there are so many ways to reach immortality- uploading, cloning of cells and stuff. it's like this exciting race to see who gets to the finish line first. but we all win in the end because we can combine our efforts and fuse them together. it's failproof.
over-population, social security are laughable matters when compared to finding a cure for death. i think if we had an infinite lifetime, we would be able to explore the galaxies but that's a topic for another day lol.
the key to finding *the* cure is research, research and research. but gerontoligists and scientists have massively limited funds presently. our biggest bet would be the private and government sector. we need to publicize the concept. we should build more websites or at least tell everyone out there about us. is it OK if i do that? i'm worried i might freak certain people out.
once the public realizes there is another option than death, believe me the majority of them would not want to suffer from it. once there is a huge public demand for this cure and advanement in geronology, i believe it will speed up the whole process.
shouldn't there be organizations formed?
can't we pool our ideas together, ponder over the obstacles that are faced? we could do research, compile everything...i'm just so hyped up over this =)

#5 jaydfox

  • Guest
  • 6,214 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 09 December 2004 - 04:14 PM

we need to publicize the concept. we should build more websites or at least tell everyone out there about us. is it OK if i do that? i'm worried i might freak certain people out.

Unless you try to sell immortality rings, I don't think you'll do anything to hurt the cause. And as long as you give folks fair warning before discussing practical approaches to achieving physical immortality, anything you say will probably help the cause. As Reason has pointed out, more voices means more credibility. I suspect that there are at least a million people in the United States today who would be willing to support the Methuselah Foundation if they understood the concept of actuarial escape velocity. Sadly, there have not been a million donations to the MMP yet, so I am left to assume that either:
A) Not nearly enough people have heard of the concept of actuarial escape velocity
B) Not nearly enough people understood the personal implications of AEV
C) Not nearly enough people think AEV is possible, even if they understand it
or D) I'm overestimating the figure of one million.

Now D, you and I can't do much about. But A, B, and C are within our control, especially A and B. If you and I can reach a dozen people, and those dozen people donate a combined $1,000 to the MMP, a rather pathetic sum when you think about it, that small impact we made might save a few thousand lives. Think about that for a moment, and then decide if you'd like to host your own website. It took me a while to get the means to do it, but I've now registered a website that I plan to have up and running in a month or so.

shouldn't there be organizations formed?
can't we pool our ideas together, ponder over the obstacles that are faced? we could do research, compile everything...i'm just so hyped up over this =)

I'm glad to see your enthusiasm. You remind me of me about six months ago, when I first stumbled onto the anti-aging community and the Methuselah Mouse Prize. Since then, I've donated $100, pledged to The Three Hundred, formed a committee to create the Fly Prize, posted very actively in the community, and most recently, started a website.

If you can follow a similar path, you could save millions of lives. At the very least, you could help bring some badly needed attention to the topic, and attention often turns into political action in a democracy.

#6 jaydfox

  • Guest
  • 6,214 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 09 December 2004 - 04:23 PM

Think of how much money the government is spending on cancer research. In the U.S., it's over six billion dollars of federal money, not counting all the state and private money, which could easily bring the total to be a 10-digit number: $10,000,000,000 or more.

Er, I meant an 11-digit number. Ten billion dollars is an 11-digit number.

#7 kraemahz

  • Guest
  • 157 posts
  • 0
  • Location:University of Washington

Posted 09 December 2004 - 11:15 PM

jerusha, you sound a lot like I did when I first came here as well ;). I have since mellowed out a bit, and I'm obviously not as active a poster as Jay, but I don't think my enthusiasm as died in the slightest. Faced with the sheer enormity of the task it's hard to be excited all the time, though. I'm just finishing up my first quarter in college and I still have a long way to go until I'm ready to contribute to the scientific community. I'm hoping to major in bioengineering and then go on to eventually get a PhD in nanotechnology being offered here at the University of Washington, but it's one of the most difficult paths I can imagine myself ever having taken, thanks to my enthusiasm. The bioengineering major here has only 90 openings for people out of a college of well over 20,000.

Social awareness is our single most important function as a group here, that's been my position from the start. The numbers of us who can actually contribute to the science is few, but there's so much else to be done that anyone can accomplish with enthusiasm and dedication. If there's something you think will help do it. It's not that we're relaxed enough to let things fall as they may, its that these things take enormous amounts of time and money. Money, mostly is the slowing factor to the work here. I hope to donate after I have a steady income from something, but right now I'm still bascially living off the pockets of my parents who I haven't quite managed to convince yet of the possibility. They're both very well educated people, it's not just ignorance that we have to overcome but inbuilt belief that the kind of things we're talking about are impossible. That, in my most sincere belief, is what we need to be doing, we can't just get by by spreading the meme to those open to it as those numbers are much smaller than you'd believe. There are people who need a great deal of convincing that indefinitely long, healthy life is not impossible or even improbable, these people who want to believe us but, well, think we're cranks selling serpent oil. Charisma, elloquence, right now at this junction these things are in some ways even more important to us than intelligence and a degree. I hate to say this because it sounds silly, but convincing someone of petty importance - that is, a popular figure in society - with our enthusiasm could have monumental help to the cause. I hear those Hollywood actors are open to new age ideas [sfty].

#8 olaf.larsson

  • Guest
  • 583 posts
  • 21
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 09 December 2004 - 11:54 PM

I am also very thankfull for the persons who took the initiative to construct this site. Thank you very, very much I have learned so much when I have been reading and writing here and I have only been a member since april 2004. Here we with the wish of conquesting aging and death can exchange thoughts with people with the same ideas, without beeing considered to have some mental problems.
20 years before the travel to the moon it was considered a fantasy. Immortality or at least big slowing down of aging will be reality soon.

#9 jaydfox

  • Guest
  • 6,214 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 10 December 2004 - 12:40 PM

kraemahz, I see a bit of a humoristic truth here. Compare:

I suspect that there are at least a million people in the United States today who would be willing to support the Methuselah Foundation...

with

...my parents who I haven't quite managed to convince yet of the possibility. They're both very well educated people, it's not just ignorance that we have to overcome but inbuilt belief that the kind of things we're talking about are impossible. That, in my most sincere belief, is what we need to be doing, we can't just get by by spreading the meme to those open to it as those numbers are much smaller than you'd believe.

Ironically, I still think I'm right. But unfortunately, the million or so people that I'm talking about might be people who are into new age crap like Alex Chiu's magnetic immortality rings. Magnets seems to be the big thing these days, replacing the crystals of a decade or two ago.

I hate to say this because it sounds silly, but convincing someone of petty importance - that is, a popular figure in society - with our enthusiasm could have monumental help to the cause. I hear those Hollywood actors are open to new age ideas

That was what I thought in the first month or so after I found the Methuselah Mouse Prize. Within a week of when I found the MMP, I read an article about some celebrity donating $50,000 to some weird cause. And it made me think, I bet we could get a Hollywood type to donate $50 grand to the MMP. Even get their name on the list of the 300.

I think I've seen someone here at ImmInst with a sig that was a quote by Woody Allen:

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying.

I suspect that a lot of the drive in Hollywood to be famous and leave a lasting impression would make them open to immortality, and not just because of new age crap. I think a lot of them genuinely have the mental profile that we immortalists seem to share. A lot more than in the general population, anyway.

It's perhaps an angle that our PR folks could pursue? If a disproportionate number of Hollywood types can be into Scientology, then I wouldn't be surprised if a disproportionate number would accept a genuine, scientific approach to achieving a cure for aging, perhaps even immortality. And given how important money is at this critical stage, getting even one actor with deep pockets on board could bring the cure a year sooner. It would be a win-win: such an actor would receive a lot of the "glory" and "fame", eventually. He or she might be the subject of ridicule, much as John Travolta is for his involvement in Scientology. But 10-15 years from now, when aging has been cured in mice, that ridicule will turn to awe.

#10 Infernity

  • Guest
  • 3,322 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Israel (originally from Amsterdam, Holland)

Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:39 PM

but the thing is, a nuclear bomb is way different than immortality. once you have gunpowder, missiles, ...bombs are within your reach.
but our cells were *made* to die. that's what i think, and i think that's what nature intended it to be.
we weren't meant to live to a 100, no living, moving animal lives more than 200. the world would be way overpopulated if it were so.


Jerusha, I am doubt if you are going to see this, at least soon, since you post that long ago...
Anyway, a nuclear bomb is not much different than immortality and so flying and getting out of the atmosphere- people used to say it is impossible because of lots of things that pointed on nonsuccess, and seemed to be quite reasonable, but only because of adaptation... We can see that birds can fly- why can't we? "because we are too heavy and so will every instrument that can contain us and be controllable" they said... sounds reasonable isn't it? [>] seem we can! we can see thing that are over the atmosphere- why can't we be there? "Impossible to get out of the earth limitations (more crap... you got the point, be creative...) [>] We can... - we have enough developed and intelligent brain to do whatever we want after all.
read The Fable of th Dragon-Tyran , explains alot.
Read what I wrote here about human's nature and limitations...: http://www.imminst.o...t=0
Our cells die naturally- indeed, but it won't be unatural to avoid it. We are natural. Organisms - - goals- survival & increscent. Instead of speed/toxic/power/camouflage/etcetera- WISDOM, elaborate brain system - - comes back to survival & increasment - - our way to do it by natural means gaven to us- everything is natural since it is all for the main goals and we are oranisms - Human's nature, pioneer, is to excel. To develop, to grow, to learn, to gett better, to become refined and to widen of horizons. Eventually, the human's nature is to overpower the reality's nature, rise above it, and control.
We meant to rull the world, only because we want and can...
Don't ever doubt the power of men, The hard shall be done today, and the impossible shall be done tomorrow (although nothing is for sure, still- everything is possible).
The world would be way overpopulated if it were so, because we will simply make less children, and in an later point in our lives.
With time and technology development- we shall be able to live out of the earth, out to space- mean- much more space and places to live in.
That is also possible.
First we have to solve one problem, than the others that comes after it- not get stuck in one without doing anything so everything will be always wrong- we should move on, always find new challenges, so infinit lifespan will be worth living for. When we'll get to the bridge- we sahll pass it, not before.
Now, when we know what are the repercussions- it will be even easyer, we know what to excpect for, but that will be done someday, all shall be done- new challenges- you can never be tired of it, without it you shall go tired.
We are maybe running out of time, but still, there is time for everything- if we want. We can make time.
To solve one problem- means new problem arrives,

~TO SECURE PEACE IS TO PREPARE FOR WAR~

- Metallica.
Just don't worry- see thegood in everything.
As it easy to find wrong when you seek for it, so easy to find good when you seek for it, all you have to di is look for it.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#11 Trias

  • Guest
  • 270 posts
  • 0

Posted 09 February 2005 - 06:46 PM

- Metallica.
Just don't worry- see thegood in everything.
As it easy to find wrong when you seek for it, so easy to find good when you seek for it, all you have to di is look for it.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity


Well said! [thumb]

Death is so imbedded into life. It's a norm, and throughout history - we've lost every sense of porportions regarding the implication of aging, or "natural death".

As a psychological barrier / defense mechanism - - we've embraced "quiet acceptation and consummation" - we accept death, as a part of life - even though it causes much grief and affliction. This psychological defense mechanism was invented by society long ago to prevent GREATER PAINS - - a human being usually finds it utterly difficult to accept his transitory existence - that's why he invented future lives, or "The Afterlife" - to perpetuate the essence of his existence;
all of us, deep insite - are inherent immortalists. All of us crave, deep inside, for boundless existence and eternity. Neither one of us wishes to be forgotten, or find terrible oblivion.
Why then, only very few accept the tenets of modern immortalism?
Very simple, ignorance and persistent residual percipiences - - people are so used to the inevitability of death - since throughout history, it was never feasible to overcome "Natural Death" technologically/scientifically, nor it was even pragmatically foreseen. Accepting religious or spiritual faith was always easier, since it offered no doubts or gaps in comparison to science.

But today, we have a different reality - - and yet still, we ffind redundant skepticism and overall scorn. How come? -Because society, ironically - got used to this Natural Death phenomenon, isn't that just horrid? - The silent acceptance of the Reaper.
about 150 +/- people die every year in Israel (where I live) from Car accidents; you should see the budget allocated in order fight traffic accidents in comparison to the budged allocated for Aging research. Its' ridiculous. Not that I degrade deadly traffic accidents, but still - have we lost ALL sense of porportion!? -The losses made by aging-related-death are FAR more greater and multitudinous.
If someone dies "Naturally" at age 80, we don't put his name on the front page of the newspaper - we don't bring it to the concern of the public, we say he died from "Good Old Age". Isn't it preposterous?? - and what if that man did not make the most out of his life, what if he'd wanted more of HEALTHY DECADES to accomplish more? -is that wrong, or unnatural? -How absurd. "Good Old Age" - unbelievable, really. It's a terrible norm - 70-90 lives is enough, - disregarding the heterogeneity of individuals, of society - - degrading the "value" of their death just because of this horrbile pandemic norm. Death that occurs at younger age (10-50) is by no means less brutal than death that occurs at "OLD" age (70-90), death - if truly desired (can't understand why) should only occur upon the acceptance of it, if an indvidual dies at the age of 85 from Aging related disease, while being a devoted life-extensionist - - and we say he dies in "good old age" - this is plainly wrong and stupd - - clinging to the superfluous standard of "age", the enlightened world should offer every indivudual the opportunity for complete fulfillment. Perhaps, if more funds were given for "HEALTH EXTENSION" (and its natural, later derivative - LIFE EXTENSION) - we'd find ourselves in different reality, when "OLD" individuals would look differently at their lives (instead of having everyday battles with their body, they'd be able to sustain healthy bodies, like they used to have) - perhaps with HEALTH EXTENSION, old fellows would not be so eager to find their grave.

Now,
The world needs a hero...

-Daniel S.

Edited by inarchunite, 09 February 2005 - 07:03 PM.


#12 Infernity

  • Guest
  • 3,322 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Israel (originally from Amsterdam, Holland)

Posted 09 February 2005 - 07:26 PM

Daniel,

Why then, only very few accept the tenets of modern immortalism?

Here is the part when chapter number two in my mass should be...
I think I will translate the concerned part from Hebrew in the next few days- worth a follow up [thumb] .

About what you said the "70-90 years are enough", it is pretty funny, it is all relative- people see this is what happend without doing anything so they refer to it as normal; If you will go back in history you will see it was the same thing but with an earlyer age- is that means it is not natural to live 80 years, but we should live only 40 as used to be before we did something about that poor lifespan...? unequivocal no! this is why it won't be unnatural not to die! we didn't meant to die- we meant to do whatever we can to survive as long as possible, which is in our case forever in my opinion.

You are right Daniel, it is also doesn't matter if someone died in an early age, old age, painfully or quickly- same oblivion is waiting, it is the same thing to die as a baby that suffered and as an old men that died while being asleep (well otherwise of coures that the old men has more to lose because of already developed self, although after the end, nothing really matters)

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#13 DJS

  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 09 February 2005 - 07:46 PM

jerusha

our cells were *made* to die. that's what i think, and i think that's what nature intended it to be.


"Nature" didn't intend anything. "Nature" is a blind, algorithmic process with zero intentionality.

we weren't meant to live to a 100, no living, moving animal lives more than 200. 


We weren't meant to live to 70 either. Our Pliocene ancestors lived brutal tenuous lives for hundreds of thousands of years. We wanted better for ourselves. We changed, we adapted -- and when these changes caused other ancillary problems we used our human ingenuity to solve them.

the world would be way overpopulated if it were so.


arggh, my computer is having problems making the links, but here's the web address that will begin to answer your questions on over population, just cut and paste it into your browser. [thumb]

www.maxmore.com/LifeExtensionandOverpopulation.htm

over-population, social security are laughable matters when compared to finding a cure for death.


Absolutely! The notion you are expressing is embodied in the therapeutic imperative. ;)

#14 kraemahz

  • Guest
  • 157 posts
  • 0
  • Location:University of Washington

Posted 09 February 2005 - 09:52 PM

arggh, my computer is having problems making the links, but here's the web address that will begin to answer your questions on over population, just cut and paste it into your browser. [thumb]

www.maxmore.com/LifeExtensionandOverpopulation.htm


Don, you're probably just forgetting the http://

http://www.maxmore.c...rpopulation.htm




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users