On issue of separating health section from ImmInst

This is the third thread where a variant of my post is presented, I thought this issue (and my eloquent writing) was so important as to deserve its own thread

My orginal stance on separating health forum from ImmInst to its own entity was based on the notion that people are here first and foremost to advance immortality. The health aspects of it have IMO been receiving way too much attention given their overall neglible relevance in that quest, even on an individual level. However, after giving it some thought, I do recognize the possibility that many people come here first and foremost due to the health discussions, and hopefully gradually move on to become involved in, hmmm, more serious life extension stuff (that might actually be useful, personal opinion only). So actually I do not feel comfortable separating health section from ImmInst (I could maybe do away with the noots section, but I am not sure wheter it is wise to separate it individually), and even I find it occasionally very useful.

However, given limited resources, I would definitely focus on other aspects than developing health section. In fact I would like to see more active stance from leadership towards the stating where current advancement of health stands in the overall picture of achieving immortality. I think LifeMirages worst legacy was distorting that picture, through giving people false sense of control and hope through his indiscriminate presentation (like saying stuff like "I could win the MPrize now if I wanted with the knowledge I have", what a crook!). That has lead to wastage of valuable individual resources desperately needed in the fight againts involuntary death in a pressing competition againts limited time. By taking a stance on this, it would not only lead to more efficient use of resources and faster delivery of the promise we are about, it would actually probably concomitantely raise the quality of the discussion on the health forums, now being dominated by the biased propaganda of the supplement and nootropics companies

I think LifeMirages worst legacy was distorting that picture, through giving people false sense of control and hope through his indiscriminate presentation (like saying stuff like "I could win the MPrize now if I wanted with the knowledge I have", what a crook!). That has lead to wastage of valuable individual resources desperately needed in the fight againts involuntary death in a pressing competition againts limited time.

Damnit LifeMirage... if I don't extend my lifespan indefinitely, I'm blaming you for making me waste my individual resources on all those damn noots! Whats your real name so I can sue you?? [lol]

However, after giving it some thought, I do recognize the possibility that many people come here first and foremost due to the health discussions, and hopefully gradually move on to become involved in, hmmm, more serious life extension stuff

That is more than a possibility. I think that is a very common path for immortalists to take, myself included. I was drawn here by the supplement forum and was then gradually introduced to the prospect of immortality by the rest of the website.

The LM issue is being taken cared of.

I am however against separating the sections, just me side.


-Infernity

I copied my post from the original topic where the conversation started...

No offense to ImmInst, but all I use it for is the forum -- and without having "experts" like LM (at least when I thought he had an MD), AORSupport, etc., dropping by, it's just another open source based forum. Something anybody here could do for a few bucks a month and focus pinpointedly on the things I'm interested in (the Health sub-sections of the forums) instead of being somewhat of an after-thought.

Given comments made by some leadership (?) in the deleted "thoughts" thread (was it deleted or moved?) I get the feeling that the "Health" aspects are not germane to the leadership's priorities. I'm not stating FACT, simply the "feeling" I'm getting. I very well may be completely off base with that feeling.

But if I'm correctly perceiving the base inclination of the Leadership, I'm not sure ImmInst in its current incarnation is the best place for people with my interests to hang our collective hats.

Not bashing - just throwing it out there for discussion.

Just time for a short post right now. Probably a longer one later to more fully reply to opales

I also am against the separation or elimination of any of the Health forums. Just create or enhance guidelines for posting that protect ImmInst from a legal standpoint.

I am for keeping the Health forums as well. Although I do not think I have ever even posted into those forums (maybe when I first joined I did once or twice) I do recognize the power of those forums to "draw people in" to the larger and more important overall goals. (heck, until a couple months ago I thought that physical life extension, what I called "Aubrey de Grey's stuff", was the only thing that any of us should focus on until I started reading a lot of the items over at the Singularity Institute's page and came to a self-realization that the Singularity is probably the most important thing in the history of the planet Earth)

I am for keeping the Health forums as well. Although I do not think I have ever even posted into those forums (maybe when I first joined I did once or twice) I do recognize the power of those forums to "draw people in" to the larger and more important overall goals. (heck, until a couple months ago I thought that physical life extension, what I called "Aubrey de Grey's stuff", was the only thing that any of us should focus on until I started reading a lot of the items over at the Singularity Institute's page and came to a self-realization that the Singularity is probably the most important thing in the history of the planet Earth)

Interestingly I first found the Singularity circles. However, it gradually became very clear to me that should I ever want to be witnessing Singularity, we would first need to focus only on the Aubrey de Grey's stuff. The technology timelines predicted by many singularists (say Ray Kurzweil) are implausible, at least more so than the timelines provided by Aubrey's theories IMO.

OPALES, how can you separate the issue of healt from inmortality ?
dont you need one to justify the other?

Forgive mi ignorance and simplistic way to look at things.

I'm also against separation. For the following reasons that are partly already given by others, but to just present my view on it as complete as possible:

1.
It should indeed be embedded into an organisation with a broader view on LE issues. There are already fora that deal with nootropics in combination with recreational drug abuse I do not wish to be part of. LE should be the primary concern.

2.
There should be one or more knowledgeable forum members, compared to LM, but with a more balanced view so that the risks of using supplements will not be overlooked. This is more likely to be possible within a respectable organisation like imminst.

3.
Practically I already do not have the time to frequently visit one forum….

4.
The sound basis of imminst could produce the proper background for a sufficiently moderated forum, that is, with some improvements in selecting moderators and advisors....

5.
Overall I think imminst could be an independent platform for discussion since “it can hold up it’s own trousers”. Financially spoken I mean

the primary reason for considering separation are the legal issues. The nootropic and perhaps general supplement sections are our greatest liability.

the risk may be relatively small, but I don't want to see all of imminst shut down over it.

I will be pushing to have the nootropics forum split from the rest of the site. It is a FACT that 98% of this Institute's problems have come from the nootropics forum. The kind of stuff we see in nootropics simply doesn't happen in a forum like, say, biotech. Between the vested financial interests and the all too common drug induced mania, major melt downs have become rather common place.

At this point the nootropics community needs to sink or swim on its own.

Just create or enhance guidelines for posting that protect ImmInst from a legal standpoint.

Sounds good to me. Something along the lines of "All information offered here is the opinion of the individual posting, and imminst in no way endorses these opinions...blah, blah blah", and make it a sticky at the top entitled "You are legally required to read this before posting here" or something like that.

Also, more stringent moderation might not be a bad idea I suppose.

I do think they draw in people that might never have seen imminst though, so it is a helpful forum.

I will be pushing to have the nootropics forum split from the rest of the site.  It is a FACT that 98% of this Institute's problems have come from the nootropics forum.  The kind of stuff we see in nootropics simply doesn't happen in a forum like, say, biotech.  Between the vested financial interests and the all too common drug induced mania, major melt downs have become rather common place.

At this point the nootropics community needs to sink or swim on its own.

98% of the posting happens in the nootropics forum. But actually, I might be ok with moving noots to a separate entity, they are really not life extension anyway.

Maybe there should be a poll with all of the different options to decide the fate of the nootropics or health section overall?

That would be a classy way to handle it.

My prime interest to join IMMINST was to be able to participate in an open forum to discuss and exchange knowledge related to life extension , health and technology that helps individuals in that area, NOOTROPICS are part of my persuit, if the Nootropics are a sink or swim situation, I would have to withdraw my membership. :(

I support LIVEFOREVER22 on a disclaimer in order to post.

I will be pushing to have the nootropics forum split from the rest of the site.  It is a FACT that 98% of this Institute's problems have come from the nootropics forum.  The kind of stuff we see in nootropics simply doesn't happen in a forum like, say, biotech.  Between the vested financial interests and the all too common drug induced mania, major melt downs have become rather common place.

At this point the nootropics community needs to sink or swim on its own.

The advantage of this forum within a respectable organisation would be essential for me. The Synergy could be a tightly moderated supplements forum that is primarily focused on LE, so that it does not float away towards recreational drug issues like many other forums.

BRAINBOX, do you consider nootropics a "recreational drug " ?

anyone interested in a leadership role at a possible new nootropic site?

That would be a classy way to handle it.

cool, I added a poll

BRAINBOX, do you consider nootropics a "recreational drug " ?

No, but on some of the forums there seems to be a mix of nootropics and the recreational stuff. Nootropics are sometimes presented as compounds that could aid in a supposedly healthy use of recreational stuff.

anyone interested in a leadership role at a possible new nootropic site?

Seriously, that's ridiculous.

It will be such a mess! [sad] All the broken links... :|

....I do not think I will want to be a member there... but it doesn't change the fact I need to be answered on few questions every once in a while, and love giving advices on which I have experienced.

-Infernity

BRAINBOX: I strongly believe that if we were to separate something, it would have to be health, under wich topic, we could post nootropics, the artificial aid of the mind, as well as the artificial aid of the body, have to follow under health, "mens sana in corpore sano"

[/quote]No, but on some of the forums there seems to be a mix of nootropics and the recreational stuff. Nootropics are sometimes presented as compounds that could aid in a supposedly healthy use of recreational stuff.

Isn't that to many if's ?"

all too common drug induced mania

that was a jerk comment if ever one was made.

thank god for judgemental assinine stereotypes. do you like it when immortalists are called nutcases, charlatains, cult, etc? why do you do that to others then?

Edited by liorrh, 03 March 2006 - 02:20 AM.

No, but on some of the forums there seems to be a mix of nootropics and the recreational stuff. Nootropics are sometimes presented as compounds that could aid in a supposedly healthy use of recreational stuff.

I have seen very little of that. Some posts reflect that on bluelight, but that is a community based around the use of recreational drugs. You can find anything in a drug related context there. Most of what I have observed is ex-drug users looking to facilitate more of their brain function, especially through repairing damaged dopamine and serotonin functions - and I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

ditto

all too common drug induced mania

that was a jerk comment if ever one was made.

thank god for judgemental assinine stereotypes. do you like it when immortalists are called nutcases, charlatains, cult, etc? why do you do that to others then?

Just stating the facts liorrh. There have been more flame wars (by flamers such as yourself) on the nootropics forum than anywhere else on the site. If it did stay on this site it would require heavy regulation, but no one currently within ImmInst leadership seems to have any interest in the job of patroling the nootropics forum (myself included). Honestly, the forum is more hassle than it's worth. And here's the real kicker -- no one from the nootropics sub community will step up and volunteer for the job. All of this f***ing drama and gossip and not ONE of you have stepped forward to volunteer as Navigators. This proves to me that most of those in the nootropics community are "Kling-Ons", web entities that want the luxury of a web community with out putting in the necessary hard work to accomplish their objectives.

So, are there any volunteers?

anyone interested in a leadership role at a possible new nootropic site?

Michael Rae is qualified, scottl is another possible candidate. Neither may want the position though.

I expressed my interest in turning the nootropic forum into a wholly seperate entity during the recent irc chat, but now it seems that a lack of adequate management could threaten that entire plan. Perhaps ImmInst should consider organizing leadership elections among full members active in the nootropics forum before going through with the seperation.

I am all for setting up an election to decide on the leadership of NootInst, but if there aren't any noot enthusiasts willing to step up, then that is the Nootropics community's problem, not ImmInst's. The options for the nootropics community are simple, sink or swim.

I vote against separation. Legal issues can be handled easily with a disclaimer.
How about at the top of the page it says,

"You have to be crazy to take this stuff"