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Summary of Events


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#1 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:49 PM


???? - It is brought to Bruce's attention that LifeMirage was claiming to be a doctor in various posts in the forums, or at least hinting that he was a doctor and not correcting himself when questioned. This information was provided by a couple different people, including Adam Kamil.

Feb 5, 2006 - Bruce brings the misrepresentation issue to the attention of leadership. The initial tone is somewhat accusatory, which puts LifeMirage on the defensive and brings many leaders, including some Directors, to LifeMirage's defense (or at least moral support).

Feb 6, 2006 - Bruce is pressured to reveal that Adam Kamil is the source of the misrepresentation charges. Many in the leadership distrust Adam Kamil's motives and therefore again feel the need to vigorously defend LifeMirage. LifeMirage, already hurt (or at least faking being hurt) by the way this was started, increasingly distrusts Bruce.

Feb 6, 2006 - LifeMirage claims he does not want to reveal his real name for personal reasons, including work-related reasons.

Feb 7, 2006 - LifeMirage beat around the bush about the "doctor issue" until Bruce asked him to make a new disclaimer. The new disclaimer fulfilled Bruce's request but still left open the question of whether or not he was a licensed doctor.

Feb 7, 2006 - LifeMirage was asked to explain the instances where he was claiming to have "patients" and whether or not his M.D. meant a "degree in medicine" or "licensed doctor".

Feb 8, 2006 - LifeMirage accuses Bruce of releasing his personal information to Adam Kamil. Later, published emails from Adam clearly show Adam thought LifeMirage's real name was Edward, not Lee. There was no evidence Bruce passed anything personal to Adam.

Feb 10, 2006 - In order to help explain his medical degree and his identity LifeMirage faxed a photo ID and college registrar's statement to Mind. The photo ID LifeMirage provided was for Lee Crost. However, the name "Lee Crost" was not disclosed to leadership at this time, because LifeMirage did not trust Bruce (due to the Adam issue).

Feb 13, 2006 - Prometheus does some googling and finds "Lee Crost M.D. (LifeMirage)" listed on Sherwyn's website. Bruce immediately points out the hypocrisy of requesting Mind to protect LifeMirage's identity if it is publicly availabled on the website of the company LifeMirage apparently works for.

Feb 14, 2006 - A vote is started to remove LifeMirage from ImmInst Advisory for misrepresentation, after it became clear that LifeMirage was beating around the bush under direct questioning from leadership, and was apparently doing the same in the nootropics forum.

Feb 16, 2006 - Prometheus and Jaydfox asked LifeMirage to make an unequivocal statement that he is not a licensed doctor. After much, much, delay, LifeMirage finally updated his disclaimer. (He deleted the disclaimer on Mar 1, 2006, just before his editing privileges over his own posts were suspended.)

Feb 16, 2006 - With the new disclaimer in place, the Chair (jaydfox) halted and rescheduled the vote. The justification (verbatim) was:

As the Chair, I'm exercising my authority to veto (i.e., table) this motion.
Emotions have been high on this one, and we need time to consider things in a more rational perspective.
LifeMirage has modifed his disclaimer to meet the requests of leadership
He has also, for the most part, been patient and understanding throughout this process. Issues of misrepresentation and intent may still remain, but we can address these in a few weeks if necessary. For now, let's get to the task of healing the divisions this has raised between us.


Feb 16, 2006 - A vote was initiated to remove the advisory position from the nootropic forum. The motion was not to target LifeMirage, but the position in general. This motion passed Feb 25 (see below) and has been published.

- During all of this, there had been an open question regarding true identity of LifeMirage. Some directors were satisfied that LifeMirage was Lee Crost, others were not. No one had ever met him, and the internet trail left by LifeMirage was conflicting. There was some evidence pointing to the fact that he was Edward Younan. Bruce was becoming increasingly vocal on not believing that LifeMirage was Lee Crost.

Feb 25, 2006 - The vote to suspend the Nootropics Advisory position passes. Immediately prior to its passing, LifeMirage resigns, trying to paint ImmInst in a bad light. Then LifeMirage realized that the vote wouldn't remove him from leadership, so he takes back his resignation, edits his post to make it look like he was not resigning, deletes posts by leadership members who had accepted his resignation, and begins other abuses of moderation powers.

Feb 25, 2006 - Due to LifeMirage's resignation, as well as abuse of moderation powers, his account is returned to Lifetime Member. Not all leadership had seen the original resignation, and LifeMirage lies about having resigned. Prometheus remedies the situation by placing LifeMirage in a special group called "Lifetime Member - Special", which had access to the leadership forum so that LifeMirage could continue to participate in leadership proceedings, but moderation powers are still suspended due to abuse.


Feb 26, 2006 - LifeMirage's account mysteriously is downgraded to Full Member. LifeMirage plays innocent and sows distrust among Directors, who are the only ones with power to change account groups. It is later determined that LifeMirage caused his account to change status due to a software glitch he exploited.

Mar 1, 2006 - The question of his true identity was a matter of hot debate among the directors and Imminst members until the day JustinRebo and Donspanton called Sherwyn's Health Food Store in Chicago, where LifeMirage claimed to work. Justin and Don both seperately talked to Lee and Lee claimed he was not LifeMirage.

Mar 1, 2006 - A follow up call was made by Prometheus and Lee again denied he was LifeMirage and claimed his ID was be used fraudulently. key point here: LifeMirage was in the Imminst chat room at the same time Prometheus was on the phone with Lee at Sherwyn's.

Mar 1, 2006 - Justin and Prometheus confronted LifeMirage in the Imminst chat room with the information that Lee Crost claimed he was not LifeMirage. The text of the chat is in the next post.

Mar 1, 2006 - The vote to remove LifeMirage from Imminst's advisory board is reopened and passed.

Mar 2, 2006 - LifeMirage again exploits the software glitch and converts his suspended account to Full Member status. Quick action from Directors fixes the situation, though it is unknown how many posts LifeMirage was able to edit/delete during this time.


Feb 25, 2006 through Mar 2, 2006- When LifeMirage was caught in his many lies, many of you probably witnessed him becoming abusive in the forums. He was also going back and changing forum threads to cover his trail of anything that was inciminating. Flame wars, ad hominen attacks, and abusing moderation powers are all criteria for being banned.

Mar 2, 2006 - A vote to suspend/ban the member "LifeMirage" was opened but failed due to questions about returning $500 for LifeMirage's lifetime membership.

-It is still undetermined who LifeMirage really is and/or how many people are involved.

#2 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:52 PM

· prometheus has joined #immortal
*guyledouche* hi ajnast4r, I love that advice that you
gave me about diet and exercise
*ajnast4r* thank you
*prometheus* You here Lifemirage?
*ajnast4r* something work well for you?
*LifeMirage* I'm here
*Elrond* hello prometheus
* doublebock has joined #immortal
* Elrond is now known as JustinRebo
*prometheus* So who the fuck are you?
*ajnast4r* HAHA
*ajnast4r* slightly blunt
*LifeMirage* interesting choice of words
*LifeMirage* Steve Sliwa

*focus* thatis the real question
*JustinRebo* heh
*LifeMirage* lol kidding
*prometheus* Man.. More interesting if I drop into
Chicago some time
*LifeMirage* or am I?
*LifeMirage* lol you should its a great city
*prometheus* You're a fucking waste of time that's what
you are
*guyledouche* heres one of the things that you said that
has done great for me*****"get a good multi
vitamin/mineral, clean up your diet, exercise every
day, get 8 hours of sleep....as these are the
FOUNDATION of a healthy lifestyle"
*ajnast4r* prometheus: you done ?
*LifeMirage* wow hardcore prometheus
*ajnast4r* guyledouche: awesome man, im glad i helped!
*prometheus* Done - man, I'm not started..
*LifeMirage* yeah we were kind of talking
*ajnast4r* prometheus: take it to private
*LifeMirage* rather than swearing
*focus* No, let him talk
*prometheus* you are one cool cat behind a keyboard
*ajnast4r* enough wah wah'ing in the channel
*LifeMirage* a cool cat huh?
*LifeMirage* felix, garfield, top cat, which one?
*ajnast4r* guyledouche: you feeling alot better?
*prometheus* wanker
*ajnast4r* lol
*guyledouche* thanks, Ive actually read a lot of good
helpful posts by you ajnast. you have a lot of great
advice that is just what i need to hear. youve really
helped a lot
*LifeMirage* So how does this make you feel prometheus?
*Jolly* prometheus from avant?
*ajnast4r* guyledouche: thanks man, that made my day
*LifeMirage* Sad, glad, mad, or just rad?
*Jolly* if anyones ever in chicago, feel free to look
me up
*guyledouche* yes, i am ajnast, thanx
*tracevapor* guyledouche, i just read your post on
caffeine. i've had similar positive effects
* Guest has joined #immortal
*ajnast4r* what post on caffeine?
*tracevapor* but maybe ajnast4r or someone can tell me
if the possible long-term side effects can be offset
with taking extra calcium
*guyledouche* im glad i made your day ajnast, youve
made mine too man:)
*ajnast4r* side effects of what, caffeine?
*prometheus* tell you what ... for the stunt you pulled
on bruce you get one back on every forum I can find
you posted on
*tracevapor* yes
*ajnast4r* get your caffeine from tea & yerba mate
*ajnast4r* and its not a problem
*prometheus* for the fraud you perpetrated on Imminst
you get the FBI
*tracevapor* oh all right. thanks, aj
*ajnast4r* or just dont exessivly consume coffee and
youll be ok
*guyledouche* tracevapor. Have you really? thats cool,
i thought that i was the only one
*ajnast4r* 1 cup a day wont kill you
*guyledouche* nice to know someone else feels the same
*ajnast4r* but you will become physically addicted to it
*ajnast4r* which sucks
*tracevapor* if i take caffeine, it's only in pill form,
aj
*prometheus* have a nice life loser
*ajnast4r* guyledouche: what post on caffeine?
*doublebock* I feel like I'm at Saddam's trial
*ajnast4r* caffeine has AMAZING effects on my mood
*doublebock* he's taking this all a joke, us all for
fools
*Jolly* my body burns through stimulants like crazy.
*LifeMirage* sure I'm a LifeTime member remember
*ajnast4r* i seriously cant go without it
*tracevapor* yes, guy, i definitely would feel the same
as you describe
*Jolly* i dont know where my life would be without
stimulants....before i found out about the add thing,
I couldnt ever get any work done. spent most of my
life wondering while i was smart, why i couldnt do
anything with it..
*focus* I'd like to know if you are Steve LifeMirage?
*LifeMirage* I'll post everyday and be on chat everyday
*LifeMirage* lol
*ajnast4r* i drink alot of green & black tea, chai,
yerba mate, etc
*LifeMirage* yes its true i am Adam
*guyledouche* ajnast, i just now wrote a new post on
caffeine
*focus* You apparently were able to delete a post of his
on google
*LifeMirage* HAHA did not expect that did you
*guyledouche* in the nootropics forum
*LifeMirage* seeming so focus
*prometheus* your membership is CANCELLED DUE TO FRAUD
*doublebock* would you be worried about the high
fluoride content in tea in drinking 4-5 cups
black/green tea a day?
*LifeMirage* sure prometheus I expect my $500 back then
* Guest1 has joined #immortal
*focus* uniquenutrition was not on Imminst when that
happened
*LifeMirage* plus interest
*LifeMirage* good point focus
*LifeMirage* you are on the trail
*prometheus* fuck your $500 loser it's forfeited and the
civil suit is coming once the FBI tells us who to sue
*ajnast4r* guyledouche: im replying now
*Jolly* if you are UN, i wouldnt mind knowing what I
need to do to get a product demo or some training info
into my store
*ajnast4r* doublebock: i dont drink that much... 1-2
cups green or black, 1-2 cups yerba mate... sometimes
just 1 of each
*LifeMirage* LOL jolly
*Jolly* I've been busy with school and this cyber
defense competition, but it's something I need to
do....just got some more prynitol from them though
*Guest1* LifeMirage when is your book coming out?
*LifeMirage* sure give me a call tomorrow
*LifeMirage* hopefully late this year Guest1
*prometheus* he'll be writing it in prison
*doublebock* lol
*guyledouche* ajnast, as you may know, i love green tea
also. I dont think ive ever had black tea before. id
like to start that and the yerba mate that you speak of
*guyledouche* sounds good
*Jolly* something tells me i need to read the latest
forum posts
*prometheus* whilst dispensing noos to the prison
population
*prometheus* bring some condoms
*LifeMirage* I'll be sure to give it to you
*LifeMirage* you like it rough right prometheus?
*Jolly* do keep me updated on the book stuff
* Jolly doesn't see why everyone need's to be so hostile.
*LifeMirage* rough and raw thats what your dad told me
*focus* could be multiple personalities, hmm
*prometheus* fuck you asshole. your account is
terminated. this is a unilateral action.
*ajnast4r* WAH WAH
*ajnast4r* both of you guys.. jeez
*Guest1* No kidding
*doublebock* LM, do you admit to doing anything at all
wrong?
*ajnast4r* guyledouche: i replied to your caffeine thread
*Guest1* so there is something to the comment about
finishing your book in prison, LM?
* LifeMirage has quit IRC (Ping timeout )
*focus* I guess that was the terminator
*Guest1* Great
* Jolly has quit IRC (Excess Flood )
*focus* He really could be insane you know
*guyledouche* i just posted a question back about brands
ajnast
*tracevapor* aj, just read your response in the caffeine
thread. now you say to avoid caffeine pills, which i'm
sure there's a good reason, but what is the reason
anyway?
*ajnast4r* so could prometheus from his actiosn ehre
*focus* No, I don't think so
* LifeMirage1 has joined #immortal
*LifeMirage1* Back!!!
*ajnast4r* tracevapor: absorbed too quick... i find the
quicker caffeine is absorbed the more detrimental to
health it is
*LifeMirage1* thank god real discussions
*prometheus* One account out one to go asshole
*LifeMirage1* sure
*LifeMirage1* thank sounds find
*LifeMirage1* fine
* Jolly has joined #immortal
*LifeMirage1* I can still come to chat 24/7
*doublebock* LM, in your words, are you innocent?
*LifeMirage1* yes
*LifeMirage1* 100%
*LifeMirage1* its all a Bruce/Adam plot
*tracevapor* aj, in what way is it detrimental to health?
*doublebock* and you are lee crost?
*LifeMirage1* against me and Unique Nutrition

*LifeMirage1* of course
*LifeMirage1* m.d.
*tracevapor* heart damage or something?
*focus* can you block ip's prometheus?
*guyledouche* i like the caffeine pills a lot also
trace. i might cut back on it if its bad.
*tracevapor* *potential heart damage
*doublebock* lee crost was apparently called today,
unfamiliar with Imminst
*tracevapor* hehe, me too, guy
*LifeMirage1* thats what i told them
*prometheus* Lifemirage can no longer log in to Immnist
with his accounts
*doublebock* oh, so this is all a joke then now
*LifeMirage1* I not going to get involved anymore
*tracevapor* i mean, i would cut back too
*LifeMirage1* no
*LifeMirage1* its not a joke
*doublebock* either way, you are disgracing imminst
*prometheus* He can log on as a Guest anytime into chat
*LifeMirage1* sure after 4 years thats all i did
*prometheus* But as soon as I figure out how to block
his IP that will end too
*LifeMirage1* or LifeMirage1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
*LifeMirage1* how high do the numbers go?
*ajnast4r* prometheus: unless he has a static IP, which
he does not... that does no good
*doublebock* then why won't you confirm your identity
when called at sherwyns
*focus* good
* Jolly shrugs.
*focus* i think he has multiple accounts
*ajnast4r* hopefully this will end soon, and we can get
some constructive chat going
*LifeMirage1* I'm not going to discuss anything not
related to work at my job
*LifeMirage1* that could get me fired
*doublebock* BAH
*doublebock* over the phone confirming your identity
*doublebock* is not fireable especially if you are a VIP
there
*LifeMirage1* for an online internet forum
*LifeMirage1* I would like to tell that to the owner
*Jolly* all i know is i met some guy at sherwyns in
2004...he knew a ton about nootropics, i mentioned i
learned a ton from this forum....he said he was
familiar with it, i said he really should get on it
sometime....i asked him for his username, it was
lifemirage....
*doublebock* how old was he
*LifeMirage1* yes jolly how old?
*focus* that might be thie Edward guy
*tracevapor* hey, aj, if i don't get a chance to say it
later, thanks for the info
*LifeMirage1* teens, 20's 30's 40's
*LifeMirage1* 120's
*doublebock* why the delay jolly
*Jolly* as i said in the chat earlier today, i honestly
dont remember, I paid more attention to the info he
was telling me...im bad at estimating ages, I dont
think he was early 20s or anything though, im 21...
*doublebock* any gray hair
*Jolly* tell you what, let me call up virago and see
what she remembers about it, shes far better at
remembering this stuff than i am
*JustinRebo* sounds good

* nemesis1 has joined #immortal
* prometheus has quit IRC (Quit: JWIRC applet )
*Jolly* one of the main thigns i do remember though is
he wasnt very revealing about who he was on imminst,
or even he was familiar with it, i had to kinda push
him to tell me that, i did think it was a tad weird
then, but figured he just valued his privacy
*LifeMirage1* thank you Jolly
*doublebock* LM, call from Sherwyn's with the Sherwyn #
on caller ID and attest you are L.C., which still
doesn't prove you're not Edward, but could at least
confirm you work there.
*LifeMirage1* i do
*LifeMirage1* t i can do it tomorrow
*LifeMirage1* but whats the point
*JustinRebo* is anyone logging this conversation or on
MIRC right now?
*Jolly* its just the truth. I know whoever I met knew a
ton, and really helped me out, and whoevers on imminst
did the same, so thanks
*doublebock* but if called, and a female answers the
phone and is asked for lee crost, will you confirm
your identity as LifeMirage
*Jolly* trillian, which logs stuff
*ajnast4r* JustinRebo: i will email you a log
*ajnast4r* ajnast4r@gmail.com, send me your email
* nemesis1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout )
*JustinRebo* illuminatus@yahoo.com
*LifeMirage1* leemcrost@yahoo.com
*doublebock* again emails prove nothing
*ajnast4r* LifeMirage1: u want a log too?
*LifeMirage1* i just wanted a log
*doublebock* i can get leecrostMD@yahoo
*LifeMirage1* geez hardcore
End of #immortal buffer Wed Mar 01 22:50:03 2006

#3 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:53 PM

One thing that I hope most members glean from this post is that the process to ban LifeMirage was long and drawn-out with much discussion and deliberation. It took nearly a month for the whole thing to be completed. Similar to the banning of Adam Kamil, it took a lot of lies and other malfeasance to finally get a majority of directors and leadership to ban LifeMirage…..and it isn’t over yet. Kamil was given a public trial to defend himself and it appears LifeMirage will also be given that opportunity. Therefore any evidence any other members may have for or against LifeMirage should be brought forth.

Edited by DonSpanton, 10 April 2006 - 04:10 PM.


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#4 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:54 PM

As far as the true identity of Lifemirage, here is the evidence that we have so far (I know a few other members have also gathered evidence and speculated on their own). Please feel free to share it at this point.

-LifeMirage claims to be Lee Crost.

-Lee Crost denies that he is LifeMirage.

-The name of the person who paid for the account is Edward Y.

-The name used on the very first day LifeMirage signed up as a member on Imminst was Steve Sliwa (had to search a couple years back in the database for that one)

-The fake accounts that were created to taunt Prometheus all used the address of Uniquenutrition.


**Edit to more accurately describe the potential for new information***

There may be a little more information available depending on the outcome of other investigations.

#5 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:56 PM

Some personal notes of mine (Mind):

Notice in the chat above in highlighted in bold that LifeMirage claims to be Steve Sliwa. And later, he says this is a plot against “me and uniquenutrition”. When the question of age comes up, Jolly does not venture a guess (unfortunately), but LifeMirage does not provide his age. Looks like a fishing expedition to me. If Jolly said 20s or 30s, LifeMirage would’ve been caught. Because Steve and Edward are almost 20 years younger than Lee Crost, and both worked at Sherwyn’s at one point.

#6 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:02 PM

I also want to remind everyone that I was one of the directors that defended LifeMirage for nearly an entire month, before finding out that Lee denied being LifeMirage and Lee claimed someone else was using his name/ID fraudulently on the internet. It was shortly therafter, that I dug through the database and found Steve's name was used to register the account.

I should say at this point that one or two of the three people involved in this may have been duped and not party to this fraud (it is a slight possibility). I invite Steve, Edward, or Lee to speak up now and explain how your names got involved.

#7 JonesGuy

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:06 PM

One piece - I don't know if you need to use your username to sign into a chat, correct? It seems to me that you can use whatever name you want. If that is true, there is no proof that the LifeMirage in the chat is the actual LifeMirage.

I'm sorry to read that posts were deleted. I despise destruction of evidence.

edit: if my question is answered by editing the above (or heck, putting in a new post), feel free to delete this post to maintain the feeling of "this is Mind's thread"

#8 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:10 PM

I also understand a lot of the members points about "why the hell do we care....this is an online forum and everything should be taken with a grain of salt.....people are always claiming to be this and that....etc" I undertand your point, because I argued in the beginning that we should not touch this issue, because we have a disclaimer, and we can't vouch for what people say in the forums. The difference here is that LifeMirage was a advisor and claiming to be a doctor. In the very least he allowed people to think he was a doctor by using the words "patients" and "M.D." He could have put the issue to rest the very first day it came up by saying, "I am not a licensed doctor, I only have a degree in medicine". That is if he was really Lee Crost. By dodging the issue and lying for 3 to 4 weeks it sure makes it seem that LifeMirage is not Lee Crost.

So.....we are holding our leadership to higher standards. I think that in the long run this will be good for the life extension community. This of course brings up the question of how to verify leadership and make sure there are no frauds pretending to be doctors telling people to take thousands of dollars worth of supplements. Perhaps, there will have to be face to face meetings or video chat. We are currently discussing moving the noos forum onto a new platform to prevent any future frauds or disruptions of this nature in the Imminst boards. Please comment in that discussion.

#9 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:23 PM

QJones, I guess it strains my imagination to think someone could do such a good impersonation and know so many intimate details of the situation. Also, we can search IP records.

#10 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:25 PM

Also, this is not my thread. It is for all to comment. If other members of the leadership, full members, basic members, etc. would like to comment, please do. Regular moderation rules apply.

Other people who have had contact with LifeMirage on other websites, or may have banned LifeMirage previously, please feel free to comment.

#11 JonesGuy

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:31 PM

Still it's not proof that the person on the chat was LifeMirage. An IP search, of course, would be excellent evidence. But, until then, a person hostile to LM could have been framing him.

#12 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:39 PM

QJones, perhaps you can be LifeMirages public defender in the upcoming trial [thumb]

I too, like you, rationalized over and over and over and over and over and over and played extra super duper devil's advocate for a whole month on LM's behalf. No More. I'll leave that up to you.

#13 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:45 PM

Some people have claimed the Imminst leadership is corrupt and/or stupid and/or vindictive. I ask you, what other online forum would give a member so much time to come clean? How many have a very unmoderated free speech area?

During the formation of Imminst there was discussion of a constitution and free speech and trial proceedings for offenders. I was fairly new to online forums, and I couldn't understand why we needed to go to such lengths. I thought "why can't we just get a bunch of hardass moderators and police the forums like....like....police, just kick anyone out the minute they stepped out of line." Well, Imminst is one of the most open and most tolerant online communities around, even though it is tough, I think it works.

#14 kevink

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 12:07 AM

Still it's not proof that the person on the chat was LifeMirage.  An IP search, of course, would be excellent evidence.  But, until then, a person hostile to LM could have been framing him.


I don't think so. LM usually posted a public notice that he was on chat and would say "still here" and things like that in the posts. So someone would have to be hacked in to ImmInst using his username AND in the chat with his "handle".

Nope - it was him. When I was on, it had the definite feel of someone trying to gather as many believers as possible so he could keep the lie alive a little bit longer.

Quite simply, no 40+ year old MD is going to behave like that lost little boy. At least not a mentally competent 40+ year old.

I feel sorry for him and hope he finds some peace. But potentially harming 100's of people through fraud needs to be corrected as swiftly as possible...his recovery is secondary to that.

edit: typo

Edited by kevink, 07 March 2006 - 04:18 PM.


#15 JonesGuy

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 12:52 AM

Excellent rebuttal - I had forgotten that tidbit.

#16 mitkat

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 01:54 AM

Still it's not proof that the person on the chat was LifeMirage.  An IP search, of course, would be excellent evidence.  But, until then, a person hostile to LM could have been framing him.


I don't think so. LM usually posted a public notice that he was on chat and would say "still here" and things like that in the posts. So someone would have to be hacked in to ImmInst using his username AND in the chat with his "handle".

Nope - it was him. When I was on, it had the definite feel of someone trying to gather as many believers as possible so he could keep the lie alive a little bit longer.

Quite simply, no 40+ year old MD is going to behave like that lost little boy. At last not a mentally competent 40+ year old.

I feel sorry for him and hope he finds some peace. But potentially harming 100's of people through fraud needs to be corrected as swiftly as possible...his recovery is secondary to that.


I agree. For someone who has such concise and pointed responses to questions in the forums (albiet riddled with spelling errors), he is awful chatty and likes to talk a lot on IRC, about everything. I was very surprised like this, and from what I knew of "Lifemirage" earlier, I would think he would be much too busy or just uninterested in the idea of a chat (again, too busy performing 1000's of case studies, writing a book, you know). No one who ignores two very polite and humble PMs would take the time to write "nice chatting with you mitkat" the same day unless he wanted something.

Also yes...his recovery is secondary to any damage he has caused to the institute and it's members. I'm very glad you took the time to create this post, Mind.

#17 Live Forever

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:32 AM

Well, I am convinced. Thank you, Mind, for laying out all of the information in an easy to see format all in one place. (minus the stuff you couldn't post due to the ongoing investigation) If there are still some people out there willing to defend LifeMirage after seeing all this evidence, either 1) they are LifeMirage, 2) they are in league with LifeMirage, or 3) they are incapable of seeing information and forming a conclusion from said information.


A quick observation:

Some personal notes of mine (Mind):

Notice in the chat above in highlighted in bold that LifeMirage claims to be Steve Sliwa. And later, he says this is a plot against “me and uniquenutrition”. When the question of age comes up, Jolly does not venture a guess (unfortunately), but LifeMirage does not provide his age. Looks like a fishing expedition to me. If Jolly said 20s or 30s, LifeMirage would’ve been caught. Because Steve and Edward are almost 20 years younger than Lee Crost, and both worked at Sherwyn’s at one point.


Also, in a part that was not highlighted, he said this:
*LifeMirage* yes its true i am Adam

..so he was also claiming to be Adam. (I wonder if he has multiple personality disorder [lol] )


:)

#18 tradewinds

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 05:22 AM

"No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar." - Abraham Lincoln

#19

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 09:54 AM

Mar 2, 2006 - A vote to suspend/ban the member "LifeMirage" was opened but failed due to questions about returning $500 for LifeMirage's lifetime membership.


I do hope the leadership considers following through with the refund, to set a precedent for future Lifetime memberships. The only caveat I would suggest is that if litigation is pursued, a refund could be witheld until legal disputes are resolved, with established guilt voiding any present and future claim to a refund.

#20 DJS

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 09:57 AM

I have made the suggestion that the $500 be given to a charity.

#21

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:02 AM

The money could be donated to charity as a consequence of established guilt, but it's unclear to this basic member whether litigation will be pursued. If no legal action is taken, I would still support refunding the lifetime membership dues as a general rule.

Intentional actions of a lifetime member leading to monetary loss for ImmInst could serve as another justification for revoking membership without refund, or with refund substracting the incurred loss.

Edited by cosmos, 07 March 2006 - 10:13 AM.


#22 jaydfox

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:16 AM

At this point, short of our being able to prove that this whole LifeMirage/UniqueNutrition thing is a big conspiracy to drive nootropics sales, I don't think we have a reason to ban for more than a year. The ad hominem attacks, while severe, only lasted a week before we locked things down and suspended LM's account. When we banned Adam, we were operating on what by then was months' worth of malicious attacks.

Anyway, the point is, the ban at this point seems likely to only be for a year (this may change in the next few days as more evidence is uncovered, or offered by the conspirators, who at this point seem unable to keep their mouths shut). And banning a lifetime member for a year is hardly reason to even consider refunding money.

If LifeMirage chooses to leave us forever (oh please!), that's his problem if he's already paid for a lifetime membership. The bottom line: membership dues are tax-deductible charitable donations.

However, the issue hasn't been settled in leadership discussions yet.

#23 Infernity

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:22 AM

Wow.. thank you, Mind... Helped me a lot [huh]

-Infernity

#24

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:29 AM

And banning a lifetime member for a year is hardly reason to even consider refunding money.


I didn't realize this was the plan, and no I don't mean to suggest a full refund (or any refund at all) is due for merely a one year suspension.

If LifeMirage chooses to leave us forever (oh please!), that's his problem if he's already paid for a lifetime membership. The bottom line: membership dues are tax-deductible charitable donations.


I didn't suggest a legal obligation for ImmInst with regard to a possible refund. It just seems like sound general policy for the institute, should LM's ban be permanent, with the caveats listed earlier.

#25 Kalepha

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:50 AM

cosmos, I haven't followed all the arguments for and against refunds, but it seems donations have a very different character than business transactions, only the latter which might come with guarantees and warranties.

#26 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 01:46 PM

Yeah... send Lee Crost a check for the $500 refund. :)

That will teach you to steal someone's identity... Christmas comes early this year for Mr. Crost (sorry Ed) :)

#27 jaydfox

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 01:50 PM

Yeah... send Lee Crost a check for the $500 refund. :)

That will teach you to steal someone's identity... Christmas comes early this year for Mr. Crost (sorry Ed) :)

[g:)]

Too bad Lee might be in on it. But if he's not, this would be a hilarious end to this ordeal.

#28 jaydfox

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 02:26 PM

BTW, I'm busy drafting the charges and collecting the evidence against LifeMirage in preparation for the trial to ban him. However, it's like trying to document a moving target, and given the implicit and explicit ties between Steve Sliwa and LifeMirage, I'm now running into the fundamental problem of whether a ban on LifeMirage (and all related aliases) would effectively have to ban Steve as well.

Therefore, there will unfortunately be some delay in bringing the charges against LifeMirage until this matter is cleared up.

#29 Live Forever

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 02:36 PM

However, it's like trying to document a moving target


Like trying to nail jello to the wall?


[lol]

#30 kevink

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 04:38 PM

jaydfox,

Clearly, you DO NOT have to explain anything to me. ImmInst is not a democracy nor did I mistake it for one at any point in time. If everything were truly democratic, nothing would ever get done.

I just wanted to say that banning for "one year" seems misplaced, perhaps even tragic.

This was sustained fraud of a medical professional, identity theft and practicing medicine without a license...How on Earth could this equate to "one year"? (semi rhetorical)




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