Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

Keyword Anti-aging

Started by rahein , May 01 2006 07:50 PM

Please log in to reply

35 replies to this topic

#1 rahein

Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:50 PM

In a recent post on FightAging Reason reasons that we need a different vocabulary for longevity research as to not get confused with the anti-aging cream market.

http://www.fightagin...32.php#comments

I posted that instead we should try to use that market to drive hits on our own webpage. Reason came back saying that it is obvious that big money controls those ranking. I would like to continue this discussion here if we can Reason.

Big money can't not control either Google's normal search engine ranking. I have successfully moved our software company from not showing on google to being in the top few results on all search engines without spending a dime. I think we can do this also for the super-longevity market. ImmInst already get top hit for "immortality". We can make it or another transhuman site get #1 for anti-aging also. The strongest factor when it comes to search engine ranking is the PageRank of your site, PageRank of the sites that link to it, and keyword density on the site and linking sites. Below are the page ranks for multiple sites, you can see that our sites rank higher then the cream sites.

Longevity sites:
http://www.imminst.org has PageRank 6/10.
http://www.longevitymeme.org has PageRank 6/10.
http://www.fightaging.org has PageRank 6/10.
http://www.betterhumans.com has PageRank 5/10.
http://www.sens.org has PageRank 6/10.

Supportive of out cause:
http://www.lef.org has PageRank 7/10.
http://www.worldhealth.net has PageRank 6/10.

Bogus cream sites:
http://www.antiaging-systems.com has PageRank 5/10.
http://www.antiaginginfo.net/ has PageRank 4/10.

This means that if we can get the term "anti-aging"'s density up on the above sites we will shoot up on the ranking.

Domain Google HotBot MSN Yahoo! Total
www.imminst.org 104,000 5,710 497 10,600 120,807
www.lef.org 87,200 0 9,573 17,100 113,873
www.antiaging-systems.com 9,190 0 2,440 1,150 12,780
www.antiaginginfo.net 22 0 145 30 197

We also have far more pages indexed then even LEF. None of the 5 sites above come up in the searchs for "anti-aging". I think we are missing a big market of people that could be getting exposed to these ideas if we can get the "anti-aging" traffic.

#2 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:53 PM

I have also looked into using adwords to drive traffic, but we would need $100 a day to get anything good.

#3 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:56 PM

We also need to find a good landing site for people to come into that they will read.

#4 Live Forever

Guest Recorder
7,475 posts
9 ₮

Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:00 PM

Does this help?:

anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging anti-aging

#5 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:03 PM

No it might hurt if the search engines think we are spamming them.

It is a fine balance between having a high keyword density and being flagged as a spammer. Google does not like people trying to unduly influence their results.

#6 Live Forever

Guest Recorder
7,475 posts
9 ₮

Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:08 PM

No it might hurt if the search engines think we are spamming them.

It is a fine balance between having a high keyword density and being flagged as a spammer. Google does not like people trying to unduly influence their results.

So, mention anti-aging more, just not too much more. Gotcha. [thumb]

Also, is there a difference between "anti-aging", "antiaging", and "anti aging", or does Google take that into account when people search?

#7 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:12 PM

I guess I should give an example of what to do then.

Do: Use "anti-aging" in forum posts.
Do: Use "anti-aging" in blog posts. Make sure the page has at least on link to another transhuman site.
Do: Use "anti-aging" in blog comments. If the blog lets you specify a homepage set it to a transhuman site.
Do: Edit the current contents of your pages and diverify the terms you use. Use longevity, "anti-aging", immortality. Don't just use the same things.
Do: Add alt text to any images on your site with good keywords like anti-aging in them.
Do: Link to other transhuman sites.

Don't: Create link farm pages with no other use then to link to other sites. You can have a affilate page or something similar. Just make sure it has a use.
Don't: Use any sort of text the user can not see to increase the key words.
Don't: Do anything that human users will look at and think this person is spamming the search engine. Some bots will actually render the page and only count things it thinks the user can "see".

#8 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:14 PM

Google takes different combos of words into account. It does give extra "credit" to pages with the terms appearing the exact same as in the search. It also looks at order of the words in the page. So "aging anti" could return a different result then "anti aging".

#9 reason

Guardian Reason
1,101 posts
248 ₮

Location:US

Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:04 AM

I think it's important to understand what the goals are here when trying to do this sort of thing. At the highest level what I would like to see is:

a) people who are interested in longevity but have fallen into the pit of anti-aging spam can find their way easily to responsible scientific content and discussion

b) because of this the pit of anti-aging spam can become a gateway to swelling the healthy life extension community

This would be the justification for trying something like this; pagerank optimization across a network would be just a part of it. I'm of two minds as to whether it is possible for a community effort on our scale to dent page ranks and blog searching on this term, and whether that would even work if we could - has it already become such a lost cause that people searching for "anti-aging" are actually looking for cosmetics and have no real interest in living longer, for example? Is A4M/worldhealth.net largely bolstered by cosmetic brands in its online component? I am ignorant of the market research I would need to make decisions on this topic.

#10 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:09 PM

A4M/worldhealth.net looks like a legitamate news site reporting on the same type of content that you run on your blog. Here are some of there current headlines

Support for mtDNA aging theory
Bone And Cartilage Growth To Blame For Heart Valve Disease
Calorie restriction's effects on aging studied long-term

It does look like they sell creams and stuff also. That is why I put them in the neutral catigory.

The cream selling sites are commercial, so they do not want to cross link between them a lot because it could cost sales. This makes them have a low pagerank. Everyone I looked at was a 4 or 5. Transhuman sites cross link a lot and it has a benifit to us, so the pagerank reflects it most transhuman sites I looked at where 5 or 6 with a few 7s.

We have the pagerank to beat them, we just need to get our key word density up.

#11 John Schloendorn

Guest, Advisor, Guardian
2,542 posts
157 ₮

Location:Mountain View, CA

Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:34 PM

Nice analysis. So how do we ramp up the keyword density? Asking people to talk less about how to get a girlfriend and more about anti-aging won't work, will it? Try to make some editorial content maybe? Ideas?

#12 Live Forever

Guest Recorder
7,475 posts
9 ₮

Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:44 PM

Nice analysis. So how do we ramp up the keyword density? Asking people to talk less about how to get a girlfriend and more about anti-aging won't work, will it? Try to make some editorial content maybe? Ideas?

Yea, I had the same thought, which is why I made the (half) joking post with all the "anti-aging"s in it above. There are only so many times you can use the word "anti-aging" in a blog post, message board post, etc. in regular speech. I am sure that there can be a slight increase in the use of the word, but without using nefarious means, I don't know how it can be increased dramatically.

(note: this is the first time I have used the word "nefarious" in awhile, but it just popped into my head)

#13 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 06:12 PM

We need a good landing page with a lot of conent and anti-aging in there 20-30 times. And preferably have anti aging in the title and filename of the page. Other then that we just need to use it in other writtings that link to transhuman sites.

#14 wall

Guest
55 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 06:35 PM

Would building an anti-aging portal site help?

#15 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:25 PM

Yes. Just make sure the content is good and does not scare people away or bash religon. I am a poor writer and designer so I haven't made one.

#16 John Schloendorn

Guest, Advisor, Guardian
2,542 posts
157 ₮

Location:Mountain View, CA

Posted 02 May 2006 - 08:38 PM

OK, this sounds worth doing to me. Can you briefly explain the concept of a "landing page" technically, how its ranking in google is calculated, and how this relates to the other forum pages? Why is the "anti-aging" keyword your primary concern, rather than others like rejuvenation, aging research, immortality, longevity? Should the landing page be designed to accomodate other keywords too? Is there a resource to tell which keyword is used how often in google?

#17 John Schloendorn

Guest, Advisor, Guardian
2,542 posts
157 ₮

Location:Mountain View, CA

Posted 02 May 2006 - 08:54 PM

has it already become such a lost cause that people searching for "anti-aging" are actually looking for cosmetics and have no real interest in living longer, for example?

I do not think excluding groups with particular (estimated) search intentions makes much sense. Market research shows that about 1% of all internet users are strongly in favor of immortalism without needing any persuasion [1,2]. This is a considerable number of people, which supports the strategy to attract anyone we can get and see who sticks.

[1] Badger S "An Exploratory Survey Examining the Familiarity with and Attitudes Toward Cryonic Preservation" Journal of Evolution and Technology, Dec 1998

[2] Schloendorn J "Negative Data from the Psychological Frontline" Journal of Evolution and Technology, April 2005; 107-117

#18 Live Forever

Guest Recorder
7,475 posts
9 ₮

Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 02 May 2006 - 09:08 PM

I do not think excluding groups with particular (estimated) search intentions makes much sense. Market research shows that about 1% of all internet users are strongly in favor of immortalism without needing any persuasion [1,2]. This is a considerable number of people, which supports the strategy to attract anyone we can get and see who sticks.

[1] Badger S "An Exploratory Survey Examining the Familiarity with and Attitudes Toward Cryonic Preservation" Journal of Evolution and Technology, Dec 1998

[2] Schloendorn J "Negative Data from the Psychological Frontline" Journal of Evolution and Technology, April 2005; 107-117

Wow, only 1%? I would have thought it would have been higher.

#19 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:10 PM

OK, this sounds worth doing to me. Can you briefly explain the concept of a "landing page" technically, how its ranking in google is calculated, and how this relates to the other forum pages? Why is the "anti-aging" keyword your primary concern, rather than others like rejuvenation, aging research, immortality, longevity? Should the landing page be designed to accomodate other keywords too? Is there a resource to tell which keyword is used how often in google?

A landing page is just the term I used to specify the page we want people to first go to. It needs to be keyword dense and have lots of links to other pages with good keywords. It also needs to be effective at keeping people reading. It can’t be to controversial or people will just hit back. A religion FAQ would probably be good. Google’s pagerank is a measure of how many pages with good pagerank link to you. The theory is that the more people link to you the better your content is. You can read more about how search engines work at www.pagerank.net

Anti-Aging is the keyword we want to target because it has a high search volume. Lots of people searching for it means lots of chances at exposing new people to our meme. People generally will look at the first 1 or 2 pages of search results for something that catches their eye. If we can get a page or two in the first 2 pages a lot of people would see that page. I checked google adwords, their paid advertising, and if you pay enough for the keyword “anti-aging” to always stay at the top of the paid ads then you would get about 200 hits a day. I would guess that that would translate to about 500 hits a day if we where at the top of the general listing. We need to have the other keywords in there also. If we don’t use a word then people can’t find us searching for it.

www.pagerank.net has a lot of tools for measuring how your site looks to search engines. I don’t know of any specific way you can see how many times a keyword is searched for a day though.

#20 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:24 PM

[1] Badger S "An Exploratory Survey Examining the Familiarity with and Attitudes Toward Cryonic Preservation" Journal of Evolution and Technology, Dec 1998

Thanks for posting that study. On the issue of cyro the study did not look well, but on the issue of anti-aging it did. Here are the averages of the respondents on a scale from 1 to 5 one being strongly agree 5 strong disagree. That means lower score are good.

Q18. I love being alive and I want to remain alive and healthy for as long as I can. 1.46
Q20. I could accomplish much more with my life if it were significantly extended. 2.49
Q21. I'm very optimistic about humankind's future and want to be there to see and participate in the amazing advances that will be made. 2.40
Q22. I look forward to a time when we won't have to suffer the loss of our friends and family because of aging and disease. 2.50
Q23. I'm excited about the prospect of waking up in a body made young again through bio-technological advances. 2.77

As opposed to cryo questions:

Q27. Extending one's life span through Cryonics is unnatural, selfish, and immoral. 3.20

We need to be very careful not to spoil our first impression by making a small issue, that will be irrelevant after aging is cured, turn them away.

#21 Live Forever

Guest Recorder
7,475 posts
9 ₮

Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:26 PM

I don’t know of any specific way you can see how many times a keyword is searched for a day though.

Here is one for Overture. I would think it would at least be comparable to Google (at least for research purposes). Anti-aging is searched for a lot according to it.

Here is one for Adwords, but it doesn't show exact numbers, just how popular terms are, and terms that are related to what you search for (you have to pull down the drop down menu to see popularity)

#22 wall

Guest
55 posts
0 ₮

Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:55 PM

Yes. Just make sure the content is good and does not scare people away or bash religon. I am a poor writer and designer so I haven't made one.

Alright then I will make one. I am now the owner of antiaginginfo.org (slim pickings on the anti-aging domains) - website on the way. I will put the site together but I will need some help with content and ideas for content, the more the better.

#23 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 03 May 2006 - 02:08 PM

Just let me know what kind of help you need and I will be happy to do my best. It is good that you got the words antiaging in the url google looks highly at that.

#24 wall

Guest
55 posts
0 ₮

Posted 03 May 2006 - 04:58 PM

Yeah I made sure of that. http://www.antiaginginfo.org/ I put up just a temp splash graphic page for now but I will build a full blown portal with a cms, right now Im debating between using drupal or joomla. I'll do as much as I can with content I can get from around the web with RSS feeds and so forth but we are going to need at least a little bit of original stuff as well. The biggest help I need would be to do some original write ups for the site. Anything related to anti-aging in your own words. It could be talking about related events, technologys, or anything.

#25 Live Forever

Guest Recorder
7,475 posts
9 ₮

Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:17 PM

Yeah I made sure of that. http://www.antiaginginfo.org/ I put up just a temp splash graphic page for now but I will build a full blown portal with a cms, right now Im debating between using drupal or joomla. I'll do as much as I can with content I can get from around the web with RSS feeds and so forth but we are going to need at least a little bit of original stuff as well. The biggest help I need would be to do some original write ups for the site. Anything related to anti-aging in your own words. It could be talking about related events, technologys, or anything.

Feel free to use anything in the wiki FAQ if it is of any help.

Also, I can help out with other stuff if needbe, this seems like a very interesting project!

Is there anything specific that you need written about? I am trying to visualize what the layout for the site will be (the format), and the style of writing that will be required.

You are a great asset to our community, wall! Nice work on all of this and the survey stuff, you are awesome! [thumb]

#26 John Schloendorn

Guest, Advisor, Guardian
2,542 posts
157 ₮

Location:Mountain View, CA

Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:40 PM

I'd love to help writing some paragraphs. Thinking of:
- Survey of life-extension in animals
- Summary of and links to SENS and mprize
- How to help most effectively, for scientists and students

Gimme a couple of days ;-)

#27 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:50 PM

The main content of the site needs to be a discussion on why anti-aging is possible and good. The first two objections I commonly get are it is sci-fi and various it's inherently bad arguments.

I think putting real examples of things that live longer then us would be a good starting point. Certain trees live 1000s of years. Then go on to describe anti-aging advances made in animal models, ie fruit flies, mice, and maybe yeast. Next explain why both the natural and man made models pertain to humans. The first page should be very easily understood and hard to disagree with.

I think a few good RSS feeds would be good. RSS is a good way to keep your page looking new and fresh even if you don’t change it much. The next big thing would be a series of FAQs about common arguments against aging. I think making it religion friendly is important to laypeople, even if we don’t think so. Everything we state of the site should link to other sites with more in depth content.

A long running survey about aging would be good. People like interaction. Also a mailing list to join for major anoucements/breakthoughs would be good. This way even if people only come once we can keep exposing them to new ideas if they sign up.

#28 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:52 PM

One FAQ we WILL need is on stem cells. Explain the difference between adult and embryo and the stage of an embryo when stem cells are extracted. People have a lot of misconceptions about stem cells.

#29 rahein

Topic Starter
Guest
226 posts
0 ₮

Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:58 PM

Oh and explaining actuarial escape velocity is very important. This is the bridge between current medical advances and anti-aging. The current view of medicine is treating pathology, not preventing it. We have to fight this notion somehow.

Sorry I am posting so much one after another, I am just trying to use this space as a notepad when I think of things.

#30 wall

Guest
55 posts
0 ₮

Posted 03 May 2006 - 07:55 PM

Alright, sounds like you guys have a lot of great ideas for content - I was a bit worried that I would build a skeleton and not have enough meat to fill it up. Please feel free to contribute as much as you can, I will deffinitly find a way to fit it all in.

One thing I was thinking would be HUGE is if someone has the time and energy, would be to run an anti-aging related blog on the site. This would help keep new content and give a nice way for users to interact by leaving comments on regarding the blog posts.

I am not going to setup a forum because I really don't want to go there and I really don't want to compete with this site, But I do think its important to have end user interactivity to keep the site going. Therfore I will make it so people can post comments on all the posted articals. I also will not be able to dedicate a lot of time to running the site after its done, I will be busy moving on to creating more websites for other people. Therfore I will need to give some people backend admin access to look over things, post new articals, moderate the end user replys to articals if they cross the line, etc.

I will build this site but for it to really succeed it will need some dedicated people to look after it.

I do sell webhosting and I have plenty of bandwidth and space to use for the site so I can deffinitly upload and stream video content.

One thing I was thinking that would be nice, instead of just having links to sites such as this one and others in the community, would be to have pr style articals about the site. IE instead of just having a link to imminst.org, someone would write up an artical explaining what it is and it would be posted almost as a news story - along with a link and logo graphic.

The layout I have in mind would be like a lot of artical headlines on the front page with small right ups then "More..." links to the full artical. Most would be pretty small but there would also be one or a few bigger ones in the middle of the site. There would also be a navigation bar on the side and a banner on the top.

I was also thinking it would be nice to have a mission statement on there, basically explaining the purpose of the site and why we built it, talking about how we are trying to take back the anti-aging keywords from the commercial gimmicky cream market.