Massive bombardment of memespace

Ok,

I having been reading some of the old sci.life-extension discussions and have realized how little progress we have been making in the last ten years. We still have to discuss why relevant science is not being progressed with deserved effort, or wonder why public does not know jack about this field.

Frankly, I am getting pissed at the slow rate of progress. Life extension and transhumanism are the two most ingenious memes in history of this world and yet some no content and irrational memes like religions or company brands get all the action. So I am suggesting we flood the memespace with these memes and don't stop until every single human being knows the basics of life extension and transhumanism, or until MPrize, SENS and ImmInst are in the top hundred brands of the world.

I think the efforts of improving the home page are good but really they seem a little peanuts to what I would like to see.

So here are some suggestions how we do it:

1)24h life extension tv, radio, podcast channel. Just random life extension and transhumanism related content like educational material (lectures, perhaps the ImmInst film, inerviews of relevant people) and for funding, perhaps relevant companies providing infomercials so we can afford the thing.

This may sound overblown but there are some freaking knitting channels. I can't imagine there being much more content than what we could provide.

2)Sexy/cool/funny life extension posters/cards/pics/flash animations that can be distributed in the net and via members (like posting them everywhere). I got this idea when I viewed comments on brizzdizzas myspace page (I especially like the St. Patricks Day card)

http://www.myspace.com/151786

I think honestly we should make some sexy/cool life extension related pictures, they could be considered enforcing the message that what we are advocating is actually very sexy i.e. keeping young as long as one wants, but it necessarily would not have to have any content but rather just be a cue that this actually really cool and not nutty at all. Businesses do this all the time. Why the hell is Coca-Cola cool, but not life extension?

I realize some conservative members might think this outrageous, or that we need to appeal to science types and not the masses. I personally don't see there is any conflict in appealing to scientists and masses, just not with the same campaign. We really need both behind us. Nokia makes cell phones that are based on real hard core technologies, yet their marketing campaigns appeal to the masses.

To be clear, we would not have to tie to the Institute in any way and thus could be considered a one man effort (me and some couple of volunteers I am sure I could recruit here) to bring the masses into life extension.

Any photography/graphics specialists here?

3)Death sucks posters/cards/pics/flash animations

Pretty much the same as the previous one, but this time the focus would be on how death sucks. I am thinking of Benetton like shocking campaign of how repulsive death really is (and that we should not tolerate this).

I realize all these require effort and people, but I think those that are hooked to these concepts would be willing to donate their time quite a bit as we have seen. I mean ultimately their life depends on it (that is why I do it). Besides, doing a massive propaganda campaign would be good experience and I would be proud adding it to my CV. And once again, the memes we would be putting forward are such great concepts that eventually they will sell themselves anyway. I just don't have the time to wait for hundred years for it (which it seems to be taking with current rate of progress), I need them out in the open ASAP.

Other ideas and comments invited. But really, let's friggin' do it and not just talk about it!!

Edited by opales, 03 July 2006 - 06:07 PM.

Obviously eventually we would need more hard core ways of filling the memespace (like having commercials on Super Bowl breaks), but the above we might be able to do even with rather little resources.

Also, the above are just some ways of doing this, additional suggestions are welcomed. Basicly what I am advocating here is massive PR effort of just raising awareness, instead of making appeal to the few special individuals or educating people of old misconceptions or science. Those are important but I would actually rather see these memes being much more in the mainstream discussions and awareness than it has been so far. There just is not mass enough to think of us as other than some marginal phenomenom that can be easily discarded as an oddity.

Edited by opales, 03 July 2006 - 05:41 PM.

are you willing to put a lot of your own time into these or similar projects?

are you willing to put a lot of your own time into these or similar projects?

Certainly, given of course the project at hand would appear meaningful to me. Thus the project should either a) have high probability of high impact b) I could somehow leverage the lessons from that effort to my own benefit (i.e. get valuable contacts or experience, maybe enough to mention it in my CV) c) be darn fun. I am sure these would apply to other people involved also.

But yeah, I would not mind building the life extension and transhumanist memes from near obscurity into world wide recognized (and commonly accepted??) "brands". Obviously there is a long way to go.

Obviously as long as we are working on volunteer basis, some restictions apply. But on those cases distributed efforts work well, many people are willing to do small efforts. For example I think most full members would be willing to spread some good&cool life extension posters if they were readily handed to them. I think we have the most dedicated members (albeit fewer) of any current memes.

In the long run we should think of models where we could have income to support full time employees, in addition to distributed volunteer work. I think own tv channel would require that (at least in the long run), however that effort could be self sustaining (receiving money through advertisements). Note that I have no idea what a TV channel would require, but if the Christians have one, so could & should we.

I think - and have been saying - that it's a given that involving more people in the cultural discussion on healthy life extension is very necessary. It really has to be a two-way street however: don't expect to get large returns from simply broadcasting the information out there (unless you can devote tens of millions of dollars to that process - the size of a major brand ad campaign).

Value for resources expended stems from careful selection of the target audience, and giving people the hook to become involved/find out more/get into a discussion immediately upon presenting the message. This is presently taking place, but it does need reinforcement.

I can see value in the production of a pool of professional-quality resources (pics, prepackaged messaging, web sites, campaigns, etc) for advocates: these are presently somewhat lacking, and present efforts suffer for that lack. In order to scale advocacy, pulling in the vast majority of people who are willing to devote time but not to craft their own version of the message, this sort of factory output is necessary.

1)24h life extension tv, radio, podcast channel. Just random life extension and transhumanism related content like educational material (lectures, perhaps the ImmInst film, inerviews of relevant people) and for funding, perhaps relevant companies providing infomercials so we can afford the thing.

My suggestion: cut the ImmInst film in to 3-5 minute segments and upload those into YouTube, Google Video and ALL the video site out there. Turn them into a videoblog, post one segment a day.

BTW, let's also make a videopodcast from the TV06. But if we want to reach out for the really big masses, we need a sexy female host for our show.

2)Sexy/cool/funny life extension posters/cards/pics/flash animations that can be distributed in the net and via members (like posting them everywhere). -- 3)Death sucks posters/cards/pics/flash animations

Hplusart could help, I think. http://hplusart.org/creatives.htm

And let's not forget these simple ways:

* Join Stumbleupon (stumbleupon.com)
* Join the Myspace groups and/or other social networks (irc-galleria for finns)
* Write good wikipedia articles, especially in your own language (wikipedia.com)
* Start your own blog (blogger.com is fine)

Join one today, second tomorrow, and so on. Eventually you'll be everywhere.

I think honestly we should make some sexy/cool life extension related pictures, they could be considered enforcing the message that what we are advocating is actually very sexy i.e. keeping young as long as one wants, but it necessarily would not have to have any content but rather just be a cue that this actually really cool and not nutty at all. Businesses do this all the time. Why the hell is Coca-Cola cool, but not life extension?

I realize some conservative members might think this outrageous, or that we need to appeal to science types and not the masses. I personally don't see there is any conflict in appealing to scientists and masses, just not with the same campaign. We really need both behind us. Nokia makes cell phones that are based on real hard core technologies, yet their marketing campaigns appeal to the masses.

To be clear, we would not have to tie to the Institute in any way and thus could be considered a one man effort (me and some couple of volunteers I am sure I could recruit here) to bring the masses into life extension.

Opales, PM me your phone number (I know you live in Finland, correct?) and we can chat about some possibilities. Give me time zone information too so I call at the right time.

I had an idea for a T shirt -- and it's still up in the air...I'm just not sure if anyone is really interested based on the response I got here...

I'd be happy to work separately from the Institute; but we (all with the same goals) should first try to function together as a team.

I hate to say it, but if we're talking video, the best way to proceed is riding on the coattails of a cute girl. Preferably one showing a bit of skin. I'm sure most student actors would be willing to take on a gig for a fairly modest fee.

As much as I'm not thrilled about the reality of how easily we're influenced, it's the easiest and fastest way to instantly create an initial positive reaction in both male and female viewers. We're looking at a topic pretty well tainted by associations of both geekdom and cold, emotionless, attempts to deny humaness, and right there's the antidote to those preconceptions.

My suggestion: cut the ImmInst film in to 3-5 minute segments and upload those into YouTube, Google Video and ALL the video site out there. Turn them into a videoblog, post one segment a day.

That is a great suggestion. I would suggest just uploading a trailer of it, and point them towards this site.

> I hate to say it, but if we're talking video, the best way to proceed is riding on the coattails of a
> cute girl. Preferably one showing a bit of skin. I'm sure most student actors would be willing to
> take on a gig for a fairly modest fee.

Oh dear, I think I'm about to get into even more trouble than usual...

emerson, you're surely right in essence, but:

- hot chicks sell, yes, but articulate hot chicks REALLY sell (even without skin...)
- this movement is, quite frankly, very well endowed with articulate hot chicks by the standards of most geekdom-ridden fields (and with good reason, viz. life is fun)
- there is no shame in being cute as well as bright, and most of the articulate hot chicks I meet know that
- from my own vantage point as media icon (aka lightning rod) of life extension, I could use some company...

I'll shut up now and dive for cover...

I forwarded your post to the BBC and NY times. No worries [:o]

Opales and I are going to start to chat about some possiblities...we'll keep everyone updated.

I am already on the way to making a trailer. What are you all up to?

To do the girl thing, I would have to rent a video camera, and get an actress from C.U.

I do not have the money for that.

Edit: Opales, I have a high end camera and photoshop skills if that enters your equation.

"there is no shame in being cute as well as bright"

Hear, hear! =D

When Aubrey speaks that calls for some action on our part.

So far: I have to admit I like opales' "death sucks" and duke's "why die"...would they mix? Duke? Does Aubrey like (or dislike) either?

We could arrange a marketing campaign around colleges throughout the USA.

We need a good front line message. Opales, duke, -- anyone else with some hot ideas?

i had a couple o beers for the 4th so sorry if whatever I typed sounds lame.

Peace out.






[thumb]

When Aubrey speaks that calls for some action on our part. 

So far: I have to admit I like opales' "death sucks" and duke's "why die"...would they mix?  Duke?  Does Aubrey like (or dislike) either?

We could arrange a marketing campaign around colleges throughout the USA.

We need a good front line message.  Opales, duke, -- anyone else with some hot ideas?

i had a couple o beers for the 4th so sorry if whatever I typed sounds lame.

Peace out.

[thumb]

Attacking the colleges around the world is a good strategy. I bet our membership spans virtually every major university in the world, especially if we hint the transhumanist people to help us out a bit. Asking a member to put up some posters is something I think virtually everyone conserned with life extension would probably willing to do.

We need a campaign to raise awareness and interest. Our message stands after one familiarizes oneself with it. The campaign should be cool and sexy and funny as our target audience appreciates those things.

Has anyone seen the movie Cobra? It had a poster where Sly Stallone posted looking all cool and the slogan said: "Crime is a disease. Meet the cure". We should do a similar one with Aubrey posing all cool and it would say "Aging is a disease. Meet the cure"

Here is the poster, it's a little small I'm afraid.
http://www.joblo.com...ottom-cobra.jpg

from my own vantage point as media icon (aka lightning rod) of life extension, I could use some company...

My dream would be to gain the ear of Mythbuster's Kari Byron. She seems to rank as the current queen of techy adoration. A tag-team between the two of you could have the media spinning in their shoes, and hardware oriented folks across the world dropping their soldering irons to trample over each other for the chance to donate towards an extraordinary healthy mouse.

Ah well, I see by the above I'm moving quite a bit too far into wishful thinking. But I definitely stand by the idea. And the point you made about looking internally for female talent. Faked enthusiasm for a product or cause through paid endorsement is good. Heck, for the most part it's outright great. But there's definite limits to where it can go beyond a certain point. And sometimes lack of experience in public speaking or manipulating crowds can be an asset. At least when moderate experience is supplemented with earnest, sincere, hope, expressed by a nonthreatening image the public can easily relate to.

The cute female intellectual seems to often have a weird effect on the media. I'm not sure how many are familiar with particle physicist Lisa Randall, but interviews with her seem to quite often take a rather odd direction. A very high percentage of those I've heard from radio broadcasts wind up with an awkward silence as the host gathers himself to ask about how contrary it is to most peoples intuition to find that this physicist is brilliant, female, and quite pretty. I think it was actually in this aspect that I first heard mention of her. There's a strong perception in the public that any woman who enters into the halls of hard science will have to leave her gender at the door. It's a weird thing in this day and age that a pretty woman, researching, writing, doing math, would elicit any surprise. But sometimes that's the way it goes with stereotypes. We're not even aware of holding them until it's pointed out, and that surprise of becoming aware of it brings interest alongside it. Depending on the type of preconceived notions people carry about professions, there's a power in both supporting them, and in going against their grain. In this case the power of appeal to authority, with the flip side of Promethean gifts - but from a fellow instead of a God.

This is moving into an off-topic direction so I'll leave it at that. Except to add that above all a friendly face that people can relate to will move a million more people than a list of facts ever will. Hopefully people will stay for the facts once their interest is piqued. But it's that social element which so often acts as the most powerful draw we've inherited from generations upon generations of culturally enrapt ancestors. And the young, attractive, female has been shown again and again in marketing studies to be the most likely to act as the universal draw in that regard.

We have already Tackled Myspace. as you can see Mrfesta Spearheaded a project that appears to be paying off. The Lesurvey page has over 250 surveys. Thats just the people who clicked the link from our 20 myspace profiles.


Now radio , tv etc yea we have no presence there. Most people dont remember the Xprize much less the Mprize.

How many people here have myspace accounts. Ok lets say 100 dedicated life extensionist type members have a myspace accounts. Each of these members has minimum 10 friends on their list. If we all invite each other to each others acco8unts then that 1000 people hit....minimum

I'm going to have to update my myspace account. My account is

http://www.myspace.com/59098075

and my bands myspace.com site

http://myspace.com/amphetishpunks

Edited by zoolander, 05 July 2006 - 12:29 PM.

What about some good ol' fashioned flyering, after certain events that would attracts transhumanists (immortalists, sympathyzers, etc)? As long as they're well done, you aren't the crazy person handing out pamphlets, and not in the business districts, it'd work well. Flyers from the right person, to the right person, can be very influental.

Edited by mitkat, 06 July 2006 - 06:25 PM.

Why the hell is Coca-Cola cool, but not life extension?

Coke provides immediate, tangible results: pleasure. Life extension is a long-term bet. For the same reason, people do not stop smoking or eating junk food because the penalty is so far off. There needs to be a near-term benefit for life-extension to catch on as desirable. This is all simple marketing stuff.

Has anyone seen the movie Cobra? It had a poster where Sly Stallone posted looking all cool and the slogan said: "Crime is a disease. Meet the cure". We should do a similar one with Aubrey posing all cool and it would say "Aging is a disease. Meet the cure"

This would be great, except we don't have a cure. Unless we position SENS as the unrealized cure.

Here's what really needs to happen. Aubrey needs to somehow get personal meetings with as many billionaires worldwide as he can, lay down his vision, and promise these people that rejuvenation therapies will be named after them, whatever it takes. These people have the most to live for, and therefore would be the most motivated to contribute to the cause. I'm betting that of every two face-to-face meeting, one of those two would be a be backer...likely 10's of millions.

There needs to be a near-term benefit for life-extension to catch on as desirable.

Definitely. Otherwise, it is the let us wait and see if the scientists will drop it in my lap later viewpoint.

That is why I think you were correct in saying that the supplement and food/exercise forums were very important crossovers. It seems to be a connection that both life extensionists and the public have in common. I will point out a market that I am sure you are aware of, the whole foods/REI crowd (as in the store). Many there will spend time, energy, and money to increase their healthspan. Promoting healthspan extension to this demographic, it seems to me, is an easy to tap resource.

Coke provides immediate, tangible results: pleasure.  Life extension is a long-term bet.  For the same reason, people do not stop smoking or eating junk food because the penalty is so far off.  There needs to be a near-term benefit for life-extension to catch on as desirable.  This is all simple marketing stuff.


This would be great, except we don't have a cure.  Unless we position SENS as the unrealized cure.

Here's what really needs to happen.  Aubrey needs to somehow get personal meetings with as many billionaires worldwide as he can, lay down his vision, and promise these people that rejuvenation therapies will be named after them, whatever it takes.  These people have the most to live for, and therefore would be the most motivated to contribute to the cause.  I'm betting that of every two face-to-face meeting, one of those two would be a be backer...likely 10's of millions.

The reason why sex is so attractive is because we are genetically programmed to think in such a manner. "The name of the game in Darwinian evolution is successful copulation." -- paraphrased from Terrence Mckenna

I tend to think mankind is genetically programmed to be afraid of death, and pain. However, we are instilled culturally and empirically from birth to believe death is also part of life, and therein lies the problem.

We need to separate these ideas in our marketing campaign for the mainstream to understand our approach enough for them to pay attention to our message and take it seriously. Right now we would get laughed at, as we have not developed any significant technologies to extend human lifespan -- and suddenly we're the Immortality Institute -- for Infinite Lifespans and fighting the blight of involuntary death...geez, when I see companies making health claims based on in vitro findings (or no findings, in some cases!), I call that hype...so, being fair to the definition, I'd have to consider our name and mission statement both hype...or hyperbole as Duke has said...not to diss the founding fathers of ImmInst...just pointing out the possilbility that our ulitimate goal might be comprimised by our front line message.

First, I think we should develop this site such that is welcoming to visitors, and offer them enough incentive to join our cause; then those of focused enough can achieve goals that can be used as rallying points. Once we have one basis for forward motion, we can advance another step forward. The change of the site's homepage is pretty monumental...it shows us a glimpse of what we can accomplish if we work together. It just takes a little bit of initiative and teamwork.

I'm following Duke's vision as I agree with most of his views, I just usually don't have the balls to come out and lay it down like that.

Sorry, my spelling and grammar are probably terrrible as I am typing on a Mac today...

Peace.

Edited by nootropikamil, 05 July 2006 - 11:17 PM.

Coke provides immediate, tangible results: pleasure.

Not to mention the contrast between the certain pleasure of coke, and the uncertain pleasure of sticking ones head into the gears of any theoretical science. The pleasure of coke is totally subjective. There's no right or wrong when it comes to appreciating the taste of coke. There is a right and wrong when it comes to the validity of a study, or even judging whether someones claim has any merit behind it based on what light research has shed on the subject. Despite being something which could easily be taught to high school kids, even the vast majority of college grads can be expected to make it into the world with no experience in this discipline. After they come here, or somewhere related, all excited about the magnetic immortality bracelets their aunt Ethel swears by, they're not going to come out as happy campers once the comments hit the fan. And most people are going to find themselves angry, embarrassed, or feeling like an idiot no matter how compassionate the resulting breakdown of why their choice is incorrect. Cool can come in many flavours, but the feeling of being looked down upon as an idiot is definitely not one of them. And when one gets down to it, nobody is immune. Einstein himself might be mocked for his fumbling with any particular topic outside his field were he to venture into it.

I would very much like to help do this in my local area. I live in a small town outside of Nottingham, but I'm not too far away from the city. I can easily get there and put up posters, send batches of pamphlets to various establishments. I will be going to college this September, where I could possibly found Transhumanist enrichment clubs, write articles in it's newsletter about Transhumanism, people involved and communities like this.
How about Children's Literature with Immortalist themes, aimed at ages ranging from 6-14 or something? Puzzle books, sticker books, et cetera, or a section on the ImmInst website dedicated to small children with fun puzzles and games.
A video game Sim' where players have to control BioMEMs and other nanomachines inside a body and assign them to do tasks like neutralise adverse microbes, rejuvenate damaged tissue et ceterea...
Poetry, Immortalist music ( ) and sound art, video art, movies chronicling the life of a contemporary yet fictional Immortalist, documentaries about the History of Immortality, from it's theological roots, through to the present day where it has become what we are all excited about right now!

I also think we should engage in the memetic engineering of Immortalism and Transhumanism without the belittlement and immature parodying of Deathism, Religion et cetera. To each and every person their own...

Some of my thoughts recapped:

There are two effiecient ways of attacking the masses with current resources

a)Using the internet social networks
b)Approaching college people directly

The a) strategy is being pursuited in myspace and its working like magic. In fact, I'm thinking my (and others) resources would be better spent posting there than in imminst (activism wise), the forum discussions seem really newbish there, so someone with some grasp of the science could actually make a real impression. The postings should include references here, so eventually would just make the transit and we would not get trap with two equivalently strong websites (the two website trap) or anything. We should really focus on putting some quality content in there, the layout etc. looks awesome. Also we should attack some other social networks, myspace is the biggest but there are others too. I am doing something in the finnish equivalent of (mostly teen) myspace, I encourage others doing the same. orkut, yahoo 360 are some other places to consider for starters. If there are no volunteers initially, I am going to make and official proposal to put those forward.

The b) strategy would initially consist of just plain cool life extension related posters on the campuses around the world, spread by imminst members. We could make it real professional with the help of the hplusart artists, the downside of that would be that it would probably require more focused effort and thus face possiblity of never getting done. The keywords for the campaign would be cool, sexy and funny. The myspace group goth picture (why die?) looks awesome. The posters could have some actual content (I think Reason would prefer it this way, no?), but I might prefer to keep it real simple with cool pics and the websites mentioned somewhere. BTW, at this point, I am actually more comfortable advertising the myspace group than imminst itself, to make the transition a little easier.

The material produced for strategy b could as easily be used to provide content to the social network groups.

Good stuff.  But I fear we are jumping to solutions, as they say in industry.  We are assuming that people haven't heard about this stuff, so we need to flood them with information.  But are we sure that is really what is going on?  I fear it is just as likely that people have heard about this stuff, but they just don't care.  Or they have heard about this stuff, but it sounds too complicated for them to understand.  Or they have heard about this stuff, but are afraid of ethical or religious issues of getting involved.

I would propose that we need to do some real market research to determine *if* people have heard all this news, *what* they think about it, and *why* they haven't taken action.  I think everyone knows that they should quit smoking and cut back on overeating, but nobody cares.  Those health campaigns are similar to ours, and have the same problem getting people interested.

I know I'm more in touch with all this stuff than most people, but it is hard to imagine that the mainstream public hasn't heard a lot of this stuff in the news already.  I think they have, and they are rejecting it.  So I think a better campaign would be to change their minds, not merely reitereate the stuff they have already rejected.

It is in no way a great survey in terms of getting good information, most likely, but in the lesurvey, not very many people had heard of Kurzweil, and fewer had ever heard of de Grey. Also from the survey, it seems people seem somewhat receptive too the ideas of life extension, but had not heard much about it in general.

I think you are right in general, harvey, that most people will not be interested, or hindered by religious dogma, but there is still a percentage (1%?, 5%?, 10%?, 20%?) that could be affected enough to be motivated to change. Not that all of them will become "hardcore" life extensionists and transhumanists, but perhaps some will drop a little something in the MPrize bucket, or perhaps some will find their way over here, or whatnot. I know it seems like most people that I know had never heard of Aubrey or any of his ideas until I told them, and most people I meet are the same way, and that is after he has been on 60 Minutes, in Popular Science and Technology Review, etc.

On the other hand, you could be right, and it could turn out that we are like cryonics. Almost everyone has heard of cryonics, but most people discount it as "wacky" without ever investigating it further.

Edited by Live Forever, 07 July 2006 - 08:20 PM.

We are assuming that people haven't heard about this stuff, so we need to flood them with information. But are we sure that is really what is going on? I fear it is just as likely that people have heard about this stuff, but they just don't care.

Exactly! They may not remember Aubrey's or Kurzweil's name, because they don't care, but most people are clearly aware that some weird scientists want to extend life, and that some American baseball star had his head frozen.

In my opinion, immortalist advertisement is totally wrong trying to persuade anybody that life-extension is good. Not going to happen, or at least insanely difficult. Therefore, the correct objective is to preach only to the 1% who already think life is worth extending, and show them how they can help. This is millions of people worldwide, who demonstrably exist. Reaching out to them is a well-defined, non-insanely difficult task that awaits doing since our little movement exists.

I fear it is just as likely that people have heard about this stuff, but they just don't care. Or they have heard about this stuff, but it sounds too complicated for them to understand. Or they have heard about this stuff, but are afraid of ethical or religious issues of getting involved.

They may not remember Aubrey's or Kurzweil's name, because they don't care...

In my opinion, I do not think as many people have heard about Life Extension as you have made out to be; yes, there are those who have heard of it and are not willing to engage in it (like my family and close friends for example...such a shame), but I'm pretty sure alot less have heard of the meme than what is being speculated here. So far, the majority think that healthy eating, not smoking and generally taking care of yourself is to live your life and then die with as little discomfort and illness as possible, for reasons like a higher likelihood of healthier children, the evasion of only premature death because of fear of leaving what family you have, not being able to see your children grow up et cetera, and not really for reasons of radically extending one's own life or not living long enough when radical life extension technologies are introduced.

For the most part, all we are doing are exchanging opinions when we should be considering each and everybody's ideas and contributions. It's time for action.

For the most part, all we are doing are exchanging opinions when we should be considering each and everybody's ideas and contributions. It's time for action.

We're getting closer and closer to action -- exchange of ideas is valuable.