Starting other groups

To be fair there is a distinction. Graeme has progressed through his PhD to such a stage that at the minute he does have a considerable amount of knowledge to contribute on the area of gerontology. We have discussed the issue of creatine supplementation for example and he has been remarkably informed and helpful.
The problem with insisting upon people having a PhD is it ignores the fact that you don't need to have one to be knowledgeable in your field. Jokes about ivory towers aside, you don't just sit in a vacuum for three years and then all of a sudden become a Doctor, you learn a great deal along the way.

Wow, Glad Im not a full member anymore. This place has totally lost site of its mission. Theres huge elections going on and I dont see anything here. I dont think Prometheus was the right choice for the job, and I see this place headed for oblivion. (nothing against Prometheus but it seems he doesnt have the pr ability)


Wise up stop fighting and DO something. Ive tried to help but I think this site is more for talk than dedication.

Some people take 10 years to finish their PhD, centurion. You either have a PhD, MD, etc...or don't. Yes or no. Do or don't. I know this, and I am not a PhD or MD.

And once you are awarded your PhD, it's not like you are automatically credible or anything. In fact, I wouldn't even suggest bringing fresh out of graduate school post docs on board either.

Your success in the field of science is determined by much more than a piece of paper or where you went to school. My brother went to Cornell as an undergraduate and majored the field of biology; he then went to UC Davis to earn his PhD; and some might consider UC Davis a second tier institution. However, immediately after earning his PhD, he went back to work at Cornell as a post doc to earn basically nothing in a Postdoctoral Fellowship; I don't know if you are aware, but fresh out of grad school post Docs really don't have any credibility either. My brother worked his ass off for his boss and wrote up a proposal and in about 9 months was able to get his lab a grant for about $109,000 from the USDA. A few months later, he was offered a job at Harvard -- and he STILL doesn't have his own lab yet. He is still a post Doc. So it's not like you just go to school for a few years and "earn" instant credibility with a PhD.

You go to school, get your PhD by working your ass off in your field of choice, then get your PhD. Then, after you get your PhD, you earn basically nothing until you are able to find a creative way to earn money for the individual you are working under, and he or she takes all the glory (well, mostly). Then, after you finish several years of work, (maybe 3-10 years), you are given a real position at a major research institution (hopefully with your own lab) and you manage other post docs, etc. and the cycle continues...

I was trying to be generous to anyone who has even earned a PhD. Just earning a PhD doesn't make you automatically credible in the field of science either. It takes a lot more than that.

Adam do you understand what a *Red Herring* is in a discussion like this?

Again I am respectfully asking you to stay on topic and the debate over credentials is not it.

Whether or not you have a PhD might be black on white, but whether or not you have appreciable knowledge to contribute as an advisor isn't. That's my point. Also being a postgraduate enables you do more than just contribute your own findings, a huge part of the process is developing a more refined ability for analysis and interpretation of the work of your peers. You can be capable of all of this without having yet completed your Doctorate.

Indeed some people may take ten years to complete their PhD, but do they really have to be at the end of that ten year process before they're of use to us as an advisor?

(centurion)
Whether or not you have a PhD might be black on white, but whether or not you have appreciable knowledge to contribute as an advisor isn't. That's my point. Also being a postgraduate enables you do more than just contribute your own findings, a huge part of the process is developing a more refined ability for analysis and interpretation of the work of your peers. You can be capable of all of this without having yet completed your Doctorate.

Eddie: you and ImmInst can choose to do whatever it pleases.

Right now I am working to develop an organization with a couple of other individuals you may know that should leave this place in the dust. I told Harold a little bit about it and we might bring him on board with us. We could use his laser focus for some tasks.

We have already selected a name (top secret at this time [wis] ), and have gone through at least 14 different logos with 2 different logo design companies and have a third still at work...at this time, we are refining the position statement and hope to have our organization ready for private viewing for our potential board within a couple of months -- our public release we hope by the beginning of 2007 at latest. We'll keep you updated.

Now that you have both addressed the point and clarified your positions could I ask the same of you Centurion that I ask of Adam please?

And basically for the same reason.

Sure no problem, don't want to be getting in the way of things

Wow, Glad Im not a full member anymore. This place has totally lost site of its mission.  Theres huge elections going on and I dont see anything here. I dont think Prometheus was the right choice for the job, and I see this place headed for oblivion. (nothing against Prometheus but it seems he doesnt have the pr ability)


  Wise up stop fighting and DO something. Ive tried to help but I think this site is more for talk than dedication.

I wouldn't give up quite yet, rjws.

I'm still a full member because I believe in Bruce's vison. I'd like to see Bruce around here more; I think he's been the best leader the place has ever had.

And I think this place can still do something meaningful. We just need the next election for board directors to have an individual with a clear agenda and elect him or her based on that.

I suggested an ImmInst aging research grant...was anyone listening?

Sure no problem, don't want to be getting in the way of things

You are not getting "in the way", Eddie. I think you are a real team player and you should think about running for leadership next time a vote comes around -- you are really smart and creative, both qualities of a leader. Start thinking about what you want to get done now.

(nootropikamil)

(centurion)

Whether or not you have a PhD might be black on white, but whether or not you have appreciable knowledge to contribute as an advisor isn't. That's my point. Also being a postgraduate enables you do more than just contribute your own findings, a huge part of the process is developing a more refined ability for analysis and interpretation of the work of your peers. You can be capable of all of this without having yet completed your Doctorate.

Eddie: you and ImmInst can choose to do whatever it pleases. 

Right now I am working to develop an organization with a couple of other individuals you may know that should leave this place in the dust.  I told Harold a little bit about it and we might bring him on board with us.  We could use his laser focus for some tasks.

We have already selected a name (top secret at this time [wis]  ), and have gone through at least 14 different logos with 2 different logo design companies and have a third still at work...at this time, we are refining the position statement and hope to have our organization ready for private viewing for our potential board within a couple of months -- our public release we hope by the beginning of 2007 at latest.  We'll keep you updated.

That sounds fantastic...I wish you the very best of luck, Adam. I thought I'd let you know I'm interested (it doesn't mean I'm leaving ImmInst though, even though I do think it's in a bit of disarray...sort it out, Leadership!). And please do keep us posted .