Extreme dizzyness on Noops

Started by drmz , Feb 10 2005 06:06 PM

Please log in to reply

51 replies to this topic

#1 drmz

Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 10 February 2005 - 06:06 PM

Hello All,

I have a nootropic related question.I mostly read only on this forum but this time i need to know what is wise to add to my stack.

Currently i'm taking the following during the day :

- Normal Multivitamine in a high dose . ( including 2-3 gr vit C and an extra Vitamine B complex )
- True Focus From "now" Twice a day
>>>>

Vitamine C 36 MG
Vitamine B6 12 MG
Potassium 12 MG
L-Tyrosine 800 MG
L-Phenylalanine 300 MG
Grapeseed Extract 80 MG
DMAE 60 MG ( good source from Dimethylainoethanol ??? )
Ginko Biloba 40 MG
Co Q10 10 MG

<<<<<<

- Omega 3-6-9 , 4 times a day

- GHV from 1fast400 1 time 1 capsule a day

>>>
- Huperzine A 5% Extract standarized to 25 MCG Huperzine A
- Gingko Biloba 60 MG
- Vinpocetine 5 MG

- ALCAR 2 times +- 800 MG a day

I want to ad Piracetam or Deprenyl or both to this stack to achieve a mood boost and to temper anxiety but i don't know if these are good, maybe there are better alternatives like aniracetam or Hydergine. I have read some things about Bacopa also ???

I'm extremely sensible for boosters which stimulate more then my brain, like caffeine or ephedra. My mind is a mess after 4-5 coffee and anxiety goes up too. I dont know if Piracetam, deprenyl or hydergine have this side effects ....maybe they transform to amphetamine forms after consuming them.

One more question, how can Deprenyl boost your mood when it brakes down Serotonine, dopamine and noran..euh what was it again ( norandro something ) ?

Any advice is welcome !

Edited by drmz, 16 April 2005 - 01:55 PM.

#2 lynx

Guest
643 posts
5 ₮

Posted 10 February 2005 - 06:42 PM

One thing I would suggest is throw in some Lipoic Acid to counteract the extra free radicals that will arise from ALCAR stimulating mitochondrial respiration. As to which form of Lipoic Acid, you will have to read here and elsewhere the various discussions about racemic ALA, R-ALA, and K-R-ALA.

Other than that, deprenyl does metabolize to methamphetamine, but generally doses of deprenyl used for nootropic effects are like 1-5 mg/day, at one mg/day the amount of meth will be miniscule. Deprenyl stacks nicely with DLPA which is in your NOW formula.

Deprenyl doesn't break down neurotransmitters, it inhibits the break down of neurotransmitters through inhibiting MAO-B.

You can experiment pretty safely with most of this stuff, except high dose 10 mg & up deprenyl. Considering that 1fast400 has piracetam dirt cheap, try some, you might like it, you might not. Piracetam doesn't usually cause anxiety, in fact it can be anxiolytic.

#3 Chip

Guest
387 posts
0 ₮

Posted 10 February 2005 - 07:11 PM

I see you list Omega 3-6-9

From recent research I see that 4 grams of the EPA omega-3 fatty acid per day shows substantial mood elevating results for many. The DHA does not appear to be that valuable to most though probably good to have as at least one part in 6 with the EPA. There is a liquid form available that provides the 4 grams of the EPA in two tablespoons which would probably be the easiest to use. The source I saw that I can dig up for you if you want is orange flavored, advertised as having no fish taste. I take ten of the Trader Joe's Essential Fatty Acids capsules which provides me with about 3.5 grams of the EPA. It appears to be a high quality product and is about the cheapest way to go.

I take a tablespoon of large flake brewer's yeast per day for B-vitamins and trace elements mostly. I found an analysis of the nutrients provided by brewer's yeast http://www.iherb.com/brewyeaspow.html and see that it surpasses some of the supplements you take and is less in others. Looks like I could probably add B6 supplements to my regimen. I buy mine in bulk from a local Whole Foods Market.

Many of my supplements are geared towards preventing cancer, 8,000 IU of vitamin A, 500 mg pomegranate seed powder standardized to 40% ellagic acid, 400 IU E (I currently take d-Alpha tocopheryl only but references I found on this forum suggest I should go for a broad spectrum form), 4 mg astaxanthin from red algae aquaculture.

I also take about 4 grams of cinnamon powder per day which I encapsulate myself, manually. Recent research shows it may work as well as many statin drugs for cholesterol management.

I have long wanted to experiment with Piracetam but haven't gotten around to it yet.

#4 stellar

Guest
366 posts
2 ₮

Posted 10 February 2005 - 07:29 PM

Hi Chip,

First of all, as per your concern over cholesterol, have you considered an extract of blueberries? The name of it is Pterostilbene
http://groups-beta.g...1513f381fc38fca

Secondly, the important part of Cinnamon is the water soluble type A polymer, it is sold as CinnulinPF at BAC. You may want to check that out......

#5 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 10 February 2005 - 07:33 PM

I'll up the omega 2-6-9 for a while, see if it's elevates my mood.

can i mix deprenyl 2.5 - 5 mg with piracetam without any problems ?

#6 Chip

Guest
387 posts
0 ₮

Posted 10 February 2005 - 07:47 PM

Excellent Stellar, thank you. I find interesting the mentioning at the end of that article on Pterostilbene that it was found to be a memory booster besides cholesterol mitigating and anti-cancer. Total news to me. I'll have to research it further. Thanks also for the heads up about the active constituent in cinnamon. Will investigate that further too.

#7 vortexentity

Guest
243 posts
1 ₮

Location:Florida

Posted 10 February 2005 - 08:24 PM

It has no memory or brain boosting effects but for safe effective cholesterol lowering I recommend Red Yeast Rice Extract. See this link for some info
http://www.wholeheal...1513,29,00.html

for a cheap reliable source I would go with SHF Naturals in Arizona
Red Yeast Rice extract, (0.4% lovastatin standardized), powder 500g $55.00
http://www.shfnatura...tegory_Code=ING

I cap 500mg of this with Garlic Powder 250 mg, Cayenne Pepper 20 mg.

This formulation along with your stack will lower your cholesterol and blood pressure safely and effectivly without a prescription and with no side effects I have ever felt.

I like to take this 2 times a day with meals. One with lunch or breakfast and one with another meal. I always take one with a meal in which I eat meat. I can feel it working but I am pretty sensitive to my body.

#8 vortexentity

Guest
243 posts
1 ₮

Location:Florida

Posted 10 February 2005 - 08:27 PM

I also started taking twice a day 350mg Bacopa extract powder with 375mg of ALCAR and 75mg of R-ALA, and 10mg of Pregnenolone, 500mg of Aniracetam, and 1 gram of Piracetam.

I find at my age 41 the 10mg of Pregnenolone makes the Aniracetam or Piracetam work about 50% better without any negative side effects that I can detect.

#9 magr

Guest
157 posts
0 ₮

Posted 10 February 2005 - 08:48 PM

- True Focus From "now" Twice a day
>>>>

Vitamine C 36 MG
Vitamine B6 12 MG
Potassium 12 MG
L-Tyrosine 800 MG
L-Phenylalanine 300 MG
Grapeseed Extract 80 MG
DMAE 60 MG ( good source from Dimethylainoethanol ??? )
Ginko Biloba 40 MG
Co Q10 10 MG

<<<<<<

I don't think that this will provide much of what you are looking for.
DMAE is much discussed.
I would scrap that and go for 2 x 400mg Alpha GPC (you also take a acethylcholine reuptake inhibitor, Huperzine A, otherwise the dosage should be higher).
If you think you need L-Tyrosine, that amount is just too small,
most studies have been made with doses around 10g.
I take 2 x 3500mg L-Tyrosine.
L-Phenylalanine can also be had separately or in a mix with both D- and L- isomer (D-,L-Phenylalanine aka DLPA).
Everything else in there doesn't seem all that neccesary.

- GHV from 1fast400 1 time 1 capsule a day

>>>
- Huperzine A 5% Extract standarized to 25 MCG Huperzine A
- Gingko Biloba 60 MG
- Vinpocetine 5 MG

You should try to take atleast 4 caps daily of this to get the benefit of Vinpocetine.
That should also provide you with enough Ginkgo Biloba without the True Focus blend, If you think it is beneficial for you.
That would yield you a 100mcg dose of Huperzine A, I think that is within reason.

Anyone want to comment on that dose?

I remember I read somewhere that 500mcg would be the upper limit.

- ALCAR 2 times +- 800 MG a day

I would up this also. You would want to take something like 2200-2600mg/day.
I take 2 x 800mg (+700mg 2h before bed).
Add 1/5th of that amount R-ALA. (so for 2400mg ALCAR that would be 480mg R-ALA).

#10 vortexentity

Guest
243 posts
1 ₮

Location:Florida

Posted 10 February 2005 - 09:31 PM

2400mg ALCAR and 480mg of R-ALA would be very strong. I am taking far less than that and it lights me up big time. Maybe it is the Bacopa I take with it but I think it is the ALCAR R-ALA combo that is the strongest part of my stack as far as physiological impact.

I take half the amount you recommend twice per day at most. I noticed far more effect on R-ALA sourced from smi2le than I did K-RALA from the same source I might add.

I have read all of RALAgirl's posts on Avant about how much more bioavailable their geronova Potassium salt version is but I have noticed a strong physiological impact from the regular R-ALA and almost nothing from the more expensive K version they sell.

The first dose of R-ALA I took was 400mg to 2000mg of ALCAR. This based on the research. It was so strong I could hardly sit still for about 3 hours. I went and took a walk and lifted weights for a while until it settled down.

I have since cut the dose in half and this is less stimulation on my system.

That is my experience. Everyone has different levels I guess. Take care.

#11 magr

Guest
157 posts
0 ₮

Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:29 AM

I take half the amount you recommend twice per day at most.

Half of 2400mg = 1200mg X 2 (twice daily) = 2400mg?

The dosage should definately be split up up in two or three doses.

#12 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 11 February 2005 - 12:28 PM

What is your major source for Oxiracetam ?

I have read certain things about SMILE-something that was not really postive. 1fast400 seems to sell material that is not tested and most other companies don't have Oxiracetam or Alpha-GPC or both. Would be handy if i had a reliable source wich had it all << shipment cost to europe and such.

what would be a good replacement for Oxiracetam ?

after some reading and advice from the nootropiK forum i decided to buy this stack >>

Hydergine FAS
Aniracetam
Oxiracetam
Alpha-GHC
R-ALA for supporting the ALCAR

*Note that i would like an anxiety decrease, so maybe i might add some deprenyl or bacopa to it .

#13 magr

Guest
157 posts
0 ₮

Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:46 PM

1fast400 seems to sell material that is not tested

That is a misunderstanding.

Start with just one *racetam substance.
I take Piracetam and Aniracetam.
I would suggest starting with Piracetam, then experiment.

#14 Pablo M

Guest
636 posts
-1 ₮

Location:Sacramento

Posted 14 February 2005 - 02:53 AM

I'd recommend piracatem, too. I didn't like it at first but it's growing on me now. I love it. I also take hydergine and aniracatem. Hydergine is awesome in it's own way, more subtle than p'tem.

#15 pinballwizard

Life Member
317 posts
4 ₮

Posted 14 February 2005 - 03:24 AM

Omega 3-6-9 , 4 times a day

I never heard anything about any old Omega 3-6-9 uplifting your spirits. AOR insists it is the EPA (omega-3) oil in fish oil. However, I like going heavy on 3-6-9 for other reasons. For one thing, I have not had omegas in a while and my rheumatoid arthritus is killing me. Supposedly EPA is a natural pain killer, but it has not taken away the pain for me... only seed based omega 3-6-9 has done that. It is probably also a natural appetite supressant because it find ways to digest fat (thermogenically) in your body.

Then again, I get arthritic pain when I don't exercise and/or drink alcohol.

In conclusion, it is pretty uplifting not binging on food because your hungry, or not having arthritic pain.

My 2 cents,

PB

#16 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 14 February 2005 - 09:13 AM

i've ordered my little starting stack :

ALCAR
Huperzine
Vinpocetine
Ginkgo
DMAE
Piracetam
L-Theanine
Alpha-GPC
Bacopa Monieri
R-ALA
Lecithin

i'm also aiming on mood improvement and some nerve relaxation.

Maybe you could help me with one thing, i used some ALCAR this morning after waking up,i took it with two capsules of Omega 3-6-9, after about 10-15 minutes my whole body went warm, i start to sweat and almost needed to vomit. 5 minutes later i felt normal again.Could this be some side effect of the ALCAR ?

#17 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 16 February 2005 - 03:44 PM

My stack starting tomorrow , any good ?

I'm also looking for a place to add L-tyrosine ,DMAE and L-phenylalanine and Q10. I'm planning to switch the Alpha-GPC with Lecithin on some days ( how much ?? )
Maybe i take some Theanine 1 hour before sleep to get me more relaxed before i goto bed.

Any comments welcome .

Thanks in advance !

9:00

ALCAR 500 mg
R-ALA 200 MG
Omega 3-6-9 1000 MG ( EPA=35% DHA= 25% )

10:00

Alpha GPC--500 mg daily w/breakfast ( sometimes Lecithin instead of ALPHA-GPC )
Bacopa-standardized to 20% bacosides500 mg
Piracetam 1 gram
Creatine-5 grams

10:00-12:00

Omega 3-6-9 1000 MG ( EPA=35% DHA= 25% )
Vitamine C 1000 MG
Multivitamin Strong 1 tab

13:00

Theanine--200 mg
Bacopa Monieri 500 mg
Piracetam 1 gram
ALCAR 500 MG
R-ALA 200 MG
Vinpocetine 5 MG
Huperzine 25 MCG
Gingko 60 MG

15:00

Vitamin C 1000 MG

17:00

ALCAR 500 MG
R-ALA 200 MG
Omega 3-6-9 1000 MG ( EPA=35% DHA= 25% )

#18 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 21 February 2005 - 06:23 PM

pls any comments ....bump

#19 lynx

Guest
643 posts
5 ₮

Posted 22 February 2005 - 02:27 AM

drmz, looks pretty strong to me, I would forget about the DMAE and replace it with Centrophenoxine.

Regarding Lecithin, the doses to replace? Alpha-GPC are going to be large, like 10 grams a day, however Lecithin is really cheap so no worries. Also, Why do you take your Multi-Vite from 10-12, rather than in the morning with food?

Regarding your EPA/DHA, unless the Omega-6 in there is GLA, I don't think it is worth the money to worry about 6&9, because most Western diets have plenty of those.

#20 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 22 February 2005 - 08:49 AM

drmz, looks pretty strong to me, I would forget about the DMAE and replace it with Centrophenoxine.

Regarding Lecithin, the doses to replace? Alpha-GPC are going to be large, like 10 grams a day, however Lecithin is really cheap so no worries. Also, Why do you take your Multi-Vite from 10-12, rather than in the morning with food?

Regarding your EPA/DHA, unless the Omega-6 in there is GLA, I don't think it is worth the money to worry about 6&9, because most Western diets have plenty of those.

Wowwww 10 grams of Lecithin, that is alot. I have 400 softgels 1200 MG here, but eating 8 tabs more would make me feel bad.They are quite large :( But maybe i'll cut the alpha-gpc in 1/2 and add some Lecithin or sometimes only take lecithin or only alpha-gpc. I bought the Lecithin because it was much cheaper then the Alpha-GPC, but i didn't know that taking 10 gram would be the replacement of Alpha-gpc

The DMAE is in the TrueFocus formule i bought, bit waiste of money, but i better take it and replace it by Centrophenoxine when there is no more True Focus(now). I bought it because it was really cheap for it's ingredients. ( 8 euro ) .

Ingredients TrueFocus :

Taurine (Free-Form) 100 mg â€
Vitamin B6 (from Pyridoxine HCl) 12 mg 600%
Vitamin C (from Potassium Ascorbate) 36 mg 60%
L-Phenylalanine (Free Form) 300 mg â€
L-Tyrosine (Free-Form) 800 mg â€
Potassium (from Potassium Ascorbate Blend) 12 mg <1%
Grapeseed (Vitis vinifera) Extract (min. 90% Total Polyphenols) 80 mg â€
Potassium Ascorbate Blend 60mg â€
DMAE (from Dimethylaminoethanol Bitartrate) 60 mg â€
Ginkgo biloba (Leaf) Extract (min. 24% Ginkgoflavonglycosides) 40 mg â€
CoQ10 (Coenzyme Q10) (as Ubidecarenone) 10 mg â€
* Percent Daily Values are based on 2,000 calorie diet.
† Daily Value not established.

http://www.1fast400....roducts_id=1116

I bought the omega 3 only fish oil yesterday, how much would you recommend ? One tab = 300 MG Epa & 200 MG DHA . Now i take about 6-9 tabs, sometimes i have no time to take them and i skip a dose .

Thanks for your comments ....

#21 lancelot

Guest
47 posts
0 ₮

Posted 22 February 2005 - 10:24 AM

[quote]

Wowwww 10 grams of Lecithin, that is alot.

The DMAE is in the TrueFocus formule i bought, bit waiste of money, but i better take it and replace it by Centrophenoxine when there is no more True Focus(now). I bought it because it was really cheap for it's ingredients. ( 8 euro ) .

QUOTE]

10g of Lecithin granules is "average" for a BB'r or life extensionist. many run 10-20g/day of lecithin granules per day.

#22 lynx

Guest
643 posts
5 ₮

Posted 22 February 2005 - 08:32 PM

When you run out of the lecithin capsules, just by powder, it is much cheaper and it tastes pretty good, kind of nutty. The 10 gram figure is merely a guestimation because AlphaGPC is a more concentrated source of Choline and doesn't contain transport competitors like inositol and ethanolamine.

#23 stellar

Guest
366 posts
2 ₮

Posted 22 February 2005 - 09:42 PM

So lynx do you think Lecithin powder is a better "bang" for your buck, if you take enough of it? My supplement list is already pretty comprehensive and costly....I don't want to shell out the money for AlphaGPC unless I have to.

#24 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 22 February 2005 - 10:15 PM

I'll try 10 grams of lecithin this week and tell you the difference with ALPHA-GPC. I found the ALPHA-GPC very powerful combined with ALCAR ..really a mind clearer

#25 lynx

Guest
643 posts
5 ₮

Posted 22 February 2005 - 10:45 PM

Yeah, for a good choline source, I don't think you beat lecithin on the price front, you can get it dirt cheap. Just make sure it is fresh, rancid lecithin will cause oxidative stress along with the choline boost.

#26 lemon

Guest
389 posts
-2 ₮

Posted 22 February 2005 - 11:21 PM

Lynx,

I was going to purchace lecithin granules during Life Extension's last Super Sale but past up on it because I wasn't sure how good a choline source it was. Is there a conversion you can make to compare GPC with Lecithin as far as their abilities to supply choline accross the BBB ?

#27 lynx

Guest
643 posts
5 ₮

Posted 23 February 2005 - 01:50 AM

I think Lecithin is 12-20% choline, Alpha GPC is 50%.Alpha GPC more reliably raises brain choline, however, I am sure that if you took enough lecithin you could get a good effect. With lecithin, it is so cheap that individual experimentation seems the way to determine efficacy.

#28 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 23 February 2005 - 08:53 AM

Maybe splittingn is an idea. Taking half of the normal dose of ALPHA-GPC with lecithin. I'm still experimenting with both.I wish i had ordered the powder instead of the huge 1200 mg pills

The Lecithin was very cheap..think 12 $ for 400x 1200 MG caps , enough for 50 days

#29 drmz

Topic Starter
Guest
574 posts
10 ₮

Location:netherlands

Posted 27 February 2005 - 05:51 PM

after 2-3 weeks on my stack i notice some big differences.My overal mood is better, only during the evening i seem a bit more lethargic.Socially i'm doing better, talk faster and also my memory and thinking speed seem to increase.

Only negative effect i notice every day is some sort of pressure behind my eyes, a "heavy" feeling behind my eyes...i cant describe it propperly. It's no headache but just an overall wierd feeling behind my eyes. I can't figure out what is causing this. I tried going up and down with the Alpha-GPC and piracetam intake but it doesn't change much.

Could it be that my brain needs to adapt a bit to all those products( increased bloodflow and such ) ? Or has my stack a fault in it ....too much from something, bad combination ...??

any ideas welcome ...