Backlash to emerging memes

What is the worst case scenario for immortalists? Could we become the subject of a witch hunt?

What is the worst case scenario for immortalists? Could we become the subject of a witch hunt?

your statement is well founded.

imbeciles enmasse have an uncanny ability to rally other equally foolish citizens for their cause, often for the most unscientific reasons.

my guess is that atheism could be one of the causes of this lemming attack. bear in mind that religious people are subject to unreasonable superstition and over he top group conformity; the one true demon they will ALL fight against is that of the denial of their imaginary phantasm/god/deity.

That's what I'm talking about. Why present ourselves as some sort of cult which invites a response like other cults have gotten? Just look at how mr tollerance himself, Bill Clinton reacted to the branch davidians. Or how the mormons are being slammed. One week it's scientology and the next week it's wholistic medicine. Just compare the two following statements

I am determined to live forever and will become part of a new race of transhumanists

I am determined to live in the most healthy way possible and to take advantage of what science has to offer.

Obviously, the first statement is begging to be viewed as a nut. The second statement is much more mainstream. The second statement says basicly the same thing as the first but does not arouse the same degree of opposition.

I'm not sure if the branch davidians were breaking any laws or not, they were accused of having weapons and keeping their kids out of school. Once the govt decides to go after a group, they will always manage to "find" some violations to jump on and exaggerate. As for what we do that is illegal, it depends on the country and the laws but new laws are always being put on the books. If immortalists start to be seen as some kind of dangerous nuts, the worthless politicians will go to work and write some bad laws.

I am determined to live forever and will become part of a new race of transhumanists

I am determined to live in the most healthy way possible and to take advantage of what science has to offer.

I don't really see these statements as having the same meaning. Transhumanism usually goes beyond "taking advantage of what science has to offer", especially since the beginning of that statement makes it appear to slant towards health science.

Transhumanism usually goes beyond "taking advantage of what science has to offer"

Explain

Transhumanism is still mostly science fiction perhaps?

Explain

I guess it depends on your view of "taking advantage of science". If you said that to most people, they'll think of using a microwave instead of a conventional oven, or using medical advancements to keep them from dying at 60. Transhumanism, on the other hand, is about using science to alter life in a much more radical manner. Not only is it about enhancing many (all?) aspects of our being, there are philosophical aims that lead to a change in society itself.

That's what I'm talking about. Why present ourselves as some sort of cult which invites a response like other cults have gotten? Just look at how mr tollerance himself, Bill Clinton reacted to the branch davidians. Or how the mormons are being slammed. One week it's scientology and the next week it's wholistic medicine. Just compare the two following statements

I am determined to live forever and will become part of a new race of transhumanists

I am determined to live in the most healthy way possible and to take advantage of what science has to offer.

I agree. And this is something I am trying to figure a way around in the flyer posting campaign. Mostly made difficult by the very fact that Shaphard raised: when you say 'take advantage of what science has to offer', people think microwaves, video cameras and DVD's. When you say 'Live the most healthy way possible', people think you want them to get up at 6am and go for a jog or walk each morning, eat more vegetables and stop drinking alcohol.

While these two sentences may in effect mean the same thing, they also mean completely different things. It all depends on your perspective.

We need a way of expressing who we are which puches them out of their 'usual' without going into the 'whacky'....

"I am determined to take advantage of all health care science which will be available to me over the course of my lifetime, and support the improvement of all scientific advances and technologies"

A little long winded, but perhaps this is a better middle ground. Any other ideas?

Transhumanism is still mostly science fiction perhaps?

Capricious comments like these, made without context or qualification, really irk me. Define your terms and then back them up with reasoned arguments, otherwise please spare us the jibber jabber.

Transhumanism is still mostly science fiction perhaps?

It's all about perspective, but I would generally disagree. I have contact lenses (soon laser surgery), an appliance behind my lower teeth to help hold them in place (which is permanent), and lots of metal and silicon in my face and body. Even certainly forgetting something, I'm a basic transhumanist, at least aesthetically and somewhat funtionally speaking. There are people who have done a LOT more than I have at this point in my life and can assure you, I am very real and will continue to adapt as I see fit

Look, some people are already creating sixth sense for themselves... a sense that detects amgnetic fields: http://www.wired.com.../0,71087-0.html

[lol]

Look, some people are already creating sixth sense for themselves... a sense that detects amgnetic fields: http://www.wired.com.../0,71087-0.html

[lol] 

Yeah, we had a go at that a while back

http://www.imminst.o...T&f=203&t=10877

Interesting business for sure...I've met a person involved in this kind of work, but it's still fairly crude.

edit: the original link that interested me - http://www.bmezine.c...g/20040226.html

[thumb]

Edited by mitkat, 06 March 2007 - 05:01 AM.

That's what I'm talking about. Why present ourselves as some sort of cult which invites a response like other cults have gotten? Just look at how mr tollerance himself, Bill Clinton reacted to the branch davidians. Or how the mormons are being slammed. One week it's scientology and the next week it's wholistic medicine. Just compare the two following statements

I am determined to live forever and will become part of a new race of transhumanists

I am determined to live in the most healthy way possible and to take advantage of what science has to offer.

I agree. And this is something I am trying to figure a way around in the flyer posting campaign. Mostly made difficult by the very fact that Shaphard raised: when you say 'take advantage of what science has to offer', people think microwaves, video cameras and DVD's. When you say 'Live the most healthy way possible', people think you want them to get up at 6am and go for a jog or walk each morning, eat more vegetables and stop drinking alcohol.

While these two sentences may in effect mean the same thing, they also mean completely different things. It all depends on your perspective.

We need a way of expressing who we are which puches them out of their 'usual' without going into the 'whacky'....

"I am determined to take advantage of all health care science which will be available to me over the course of my lifetime, and support the improvement of all scientific advances and technologies"

A little long winded, but perhaps this is a better middle ground. Any other ideas?

Yes, I think you are on the right track. We need to express things in a way that gets across the central idea without evoking images of Dr Frankenstien. People are already opposed to genetically modified foods. How are they going to take to genetically modified humans? As karomesis pointed out, there are lots of fools out there who will gladly jump on a bandwagon. Lets give them a wholistic bandwagon to jump on, not a horror fiction scenario dreamed up by our enemies.

Don't discount the probability of deliberate distortion. I can just see a dirtbag journalist writing about a group of nuts who actually think they are going to live forever and have some sort of science fiction plan to carry it out. The writer could talk about surgery to implant sensors, weird and unapproved drugs, hormones and so on. They could claim children are being subjected to strange experiments by their immortalist parents. Whenever they want to take our rights away, a favorite tactic is to claim they are "protecting the children". I've heard that phrase so many times it makes me sick but they keep using it because it works. A good hatchet job or two could make us look weirder than the branch davidians and planning to take over the world. Then watch the fools jump on that bandwagon much to our undoing. Once the politicians see which way the wind is blowing, you can count on some bad legislation coming forward.

Nice PR friendly text is what we need to put out and to keep in mind when any interviews come along. Emphasize mainstream values and terminology. Having maximum health is the best way to be immortal anyhow. Healthy people do not die. They first become unhealthy, then more so and then they die. Staying healthy means never dying as long as you stay that way but does not get the idea across that we are kooks.

Yes, I think you are on the right track. We need to express things in a way that gets across the central idea without evoking images of Dr Frankenstien. People are already opposed to genetically modified foods. How are they going to take to genetically modified humans?

It's funny, I have very little problems with GMO humans, but major problems with GMO plants. Plants can't be stopped! [thumb]

It's funny, I have very little problems with GMO humans, but major problems with GMO plants. Plants can't be stopped! [thumb]

GM foods are a panic trigger for many people. Radiation induced mutations are another for many. Using "drugs" has been pounded into the public consciousness as a bad thing. All it would take is for the media to decide they are going to make fun of the movement and we could be stuck with an indelible identity as fools trying to tamper with nature. They might alternate between humor and horror. We could be laughed at or looked upon as freaks like the images from India of people stabbing themselves with knives and setting themselves on fire. Or we could emphasize the desire for greater health and play down the sensational side. Right now, the slate is clean and the media has not decided to attack us. Not yet.

Make a preemptive strike by putting the accent on the positive. Showcase our mainstream objectives and downplay the parts that could be more easily distorted. That's what I'm saying.

I agree xanadu, and not just for the reasons you mention. Every person I mention 'immortality' to, no matter how I put it, lifespan extension, longevity, "I want to live as long as I can"....however you say it, they are instantly opposed. It is scary. We really need to take this slowly, and change perceptions....I'm just not sure how.

Perhaps the flyer campaign needs to be more subliminal in order to direct people to a content rich landing page. I've forgotten who mentioned it now, but someone came up with "Not questioning the status quo will kill you!" Lines like that reveal nothing of our goals, but attracts curious people who can then be directed to information rich pages about healthy living and scientific advancements. The idea of living for 200 years need not be mentioned until after extensive 'screening' through successive pages.

lol i just think its funny that this thread has labled this an emerging meme.

Don't discount the probability of deliberate distortion.

I think some here have way underestimated it. Another thing to keep in mind is our success in making the general public comfortable with our ideals should continue over the next few hundred years. Does ImmInst have a 500 year plan yet?

I've forgotten who mentioned it now, but someone came up with "Not questioning the status quo will kill you!" Lines like that reveal nothing of our goals, but attracts curious people who can then be directed to information rich pages about healthy living and scientific advancements.

That would be me

who can then be directed to information rich pages about healthy living and scientific advancements.
That would be me

Indeed it would. I corrected that knowledge before I posted in the flyer thread too

http://www.imminst.o...20