Leadership does not honor user agreement.

I challenged prometheus as to the authenticity and logic of his posts in a thread/poll of his own making. It became quite evident that he twisted interpretations of statements to contend that they were made by fools, rather than squarely address the arguments made in his thread. When seemingly in a quandary at his exposure of a capacity to mislead and level character assassination as a modus operandi in that thread, he stopped posting. Then a new member appeared, came straight to that thread as his first destination, agreed with the author with no arguments or reasoning offered. My contention that the person appeared to be “bleating”.was cogent. The word has definition that does not mean calling a person a sheep. I never called any one that. That new entity then proceeded to move strictly into other categories of the forum where I had posted and leveled empty disconnected totally banal insult at me. That new member had most of his posts deleted and was warned by DonSpanton. That poster has never posted again since. It is then that prometheus started posting again. I raised the idea that prometheus has possibly created that persona called tiktok and prometheus did not deny it and defended the posters wild antics. I claimed that prometheus lied in claiming I had leveled personal insult and his response was ridicule, no denial of having lied. I was informed and tested the fact that Imminst’s forum has no Internet Address checking which allows any one to make more alias’s on Imminst’s forum, perhaps requiring multiple email addresses, an easy thing to do. I made such a fake alias myself which I immediately reported and have not used other than my real one in this forum. This is the first public forum on the web that I have encountered to my awareness that does not use internet address checking to prevent the creation of bogus accounts.

While reading and participating in a thread started on the premise that SETI could positively impact the coming of singularity, in the Singularity category, (area of the forum), I suddenly thought, why not SENS too? I started a thread in the SENS area, expressing this. Like the thread in the Singularity category it quickly became a few posts on the subject of SETI and why and how it might work.

prometheus, an Advisor here, has editing, deletion, and power to move posts from the Biotech area to other areas. Without warning, without discussion, without suggestion of getting back on the topic concerning SENS, prometheus moved the thread to the Physics category, stating that it had nothing to do with SENS.

Now he has leveled a “first and final warning” for referring to his actions as that of a troll. Again he states his opinion of the possible benefit of SETI to SENS as being nil without argument or reason offered.

This forum has a hierarchy of power. First step to attaining some of this is to become a paying member. Status can be bought. I consider this to be a failing of this forum to assure that some one with another agenda other than seeking to end the blight of involuntary death could rise to power. I found that the threads on Terri Schiavo reveal the true agenda of prometheus, to defend the big powers of the world, to spread the propaganda that it should be given more power over our lives, to remove self-determination, to be the final arbiter against law. Lying and misinformation were the tools to seek this usurpation of reason conducted by prometheus.

Sharing that opinion and the observations that lead to it has earned me the ire of prometheus. His action of moving my thread on SENS and SETI was done out of spite, malevolence, dictatorial hegemony. No arguments offered on why SETI will not impact SENS, just plain old force.

It is clear. It is observable. It is not fantasy or conjecture. Imminst has a troll immersed in its organization with approval of other members of its staff. The actions and endorsement of callous regard for reason, of blatant totally off the wall chaotic behavior, this is endured, this is not addressed, this is ignored by other members of the staff of Immortality Institute.

I would like the staff to defend why they sustain special privileges and power to a person who has openly endorsed transgression of Imminst’s user agreement. I would like Imminst’s leadership to honor their constitution and that user agreement and at least remove special power and privilege to prometheus finding some one else to moderate, control and supervise the areas now under his jurisdiction. This is my suggestion.

Here are the threads that contain the data that support my contention that prometheus is a harmful troll, one who lies and misleads, who approves of violations against the user agreement, who seeks to force his opinion, denigrate those who disagree with ad hominem, spin (lies) and force.

http://www.imminst.o...f=106&t=5857&s=
http://www.imminst.o...&f=26&t=6948&s=
http://www.imminst.o...t=ST&f=9&t=6997

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edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:21 AM.

You were warned about this sort of behavior. I suggest your direct your grievances to the Directors via PM.

Was that warning the "first and last" that you made to me? I think you are waffling, prometheus. Is that an insult? When should I take you seriously and when should I consider your missives crap? Can't tell any more. After all the obfuscation and lies, it gets ever harder to take any thing you state as having meaning.

Chip, I fear you may be using your valuable energies to fight a paper tiger. I'm sorry you feel this way. I've found it helpful to remember that we're in this fight together against a common enemy rather than against each other. If you feel you're hampered in making progress toward fighting death in anyway, ImmInst Leadership will be the first to help.

Leadership has the ability to check ISP, but this is not a perfect system as any new member can sign on from a different computer or change their ISP information through their computer.

Regardless, Leadership takes your concerns seriously and have already created a leadership thread where this topic is discussed.

While I feel there's a small chance that work with SETI might benefit SENS, I admit there is a finite chance.

However, I agree that the thread still belonged in the forum to which it was moved, and as a Director of ImmInst, I support the move. The speculation in that thread revolves largely around the Fermi paradox and the use of "Physics", a la radio astronomy and decription of an alien transmission protocol, to try to decipher the advanced knowledge of aliens, knowledge which by your own admission would involve manipulation of matter at the most basic levels. Such discussion is hardly biological in nature.

Put succinctly, since alien physiology and biochemistry is likely EXTREMELY different from our own, an advancement of SENS through such knowledge would be due to increased knowledge of PHYSICS and nanoengineering, and at best, CHEMISTRY, not increased knowledge of BIOLOGY proper. So the thread is where it needs to be. You could post a thread in the SENS forum that merely links to the thread in the Physics forum, and ask for discussion of SENS itself, without debating the finer points of the debate over the existence of aliens, etc.

Better get the thread on SETI in the Singularity area out of there then. That "finite chance" may have a potential high pay off. In the SETI community it has been suggested that an AI program would be nice to spread to the stars and might be picked up by struggling life systems such as our own. Plug in your relevant biological data and get some suggestions for enhancing SENS or what not.

Harold did not express that there was only a finite chance. He stated there was none. Isn't it rather civil to allow the potential benefit of a doubt rather than dictate one's beliefs?

Bruce: "I've found it helpful to remember that we're in this fight together against a common enemy rather than against each other."

I believe that but it appears quite evident that at least one member of your team has other priorities and is quite willing to wage a fight against possible strategies and individuals rather than help pursue our common goal.

Good to hear that youse guys are considering. I doubt if it will come to anything. Online forums get unwieldy. They adopt methods to hopefully handle that confusion and aid in directing communications towards the common goal. Often, those strategies don't work and lead to complications. The very viability of an online forum to stay focused comes into question. Patriotism and status in a forum or group often precludes the ability to think critically.

Paper tiger indeed. My curiosity in this matter is to find out if an online forum can actually avoid and curtail counter forces within its own structure. My interest is sociological. Can forums avoid becoming corrupted and corrupting? I hope so because we do need a viable force in this world but I'm afraid that ultimately we'll have to acknowledge the failure and get on to other things. Imminst is a drop in a growing ocean of callous disregard for life and its potentials. We are going to need something a lot more effective. Can Imminst become that something? I hope so. I doubt it.

I must admit that the use of this terminology slightly vexes me.

Yes, ImmInst maintains an online forum, but it is more than that, and it aspires to be MUCH more than that. Sometimes I wonder if you understand the significance of this...

Don, are you aware of the concept of a second order cybernetic system? A person immersed in a grouping may be least capable of analyzing that grouping strategy. First order cybernetic systems are magnitudes easier to analyze and design. Is the "significance" of Imminst and its forum more elevated than the goal of Imminst? It might become so to some one who is tending the trees. The forest may be, nay, appears to be dying. It will take some meta-thinking to find what we need. We'll have to attempt to find perspective "outside of the box" or one fine day we'll find that we are denied immortality despite our best efforts which proved be too few too late.

I am strongly in coherence with the stated goal of Imminst.

Hey. I've joined a few things here and there throughout my life. I've dropped them all to the best of my abilities. By nature I was given membership into the status of a living human being. I would like to sustain that membership, one I've yet to drop and if it happens, will not be me choosing so. Imminst may be a stepping stone on the way but it is not the goal. I see the constitution states " The duration of ImmInst shall be perpetual." I'm afraid that is disingenuous but I cater to Lysander Spooner's perspective about constitutions and hope we actually do find a way of organizing that is ingenious and forthcoming. What would I put in the constitution instead of something that sounds rather fanciful? How about "The duration of Imminst shall be for as long as it pursues the objective." I don't know.

I do know that if you let your leadership become lax, in some instances become something that embraces efforts counter to the stated goal, if you can not continually seek valid criticism and learn from mistakes, Imminst will not last and its passing could be painful to some, especially those who are convinced that the goal is all important.

I've had a long productive day. I have much work to do.

"Good night Good night Everybody
Everybody everywhere
Good night." Lennon/McCarthy

I suspect that reaching "immortality" is impossible... but that striving towards it will remain an infinite goal... such that "perpetual" is the most optimal wording for the ImmInst Constitution.

Seems reasonable to me. I do find that we are liable to discover better ways of organizing that do not involve having to kow-tow to means that, in the big picture, are failing. I realize that such is necessary now for certain business status. Maybe in the near future, having to incorporate will not be dependent on the "bottom line" that facilitates opportunism. I am not claiming that such is the nature of Imminst but if all we can use are the tools that lead many to forsake altruism, the striving will be inherently restricted from the best strategies.

My immediate family's income has increased by magnitudes in the last few months and I see the potential for it to increase further but still, I remain foot loose and fancy free, not a paying member of any group. I even skipped my last income tax report and payment. I've done that before and have brought it back in line with time to avoid legal repercussions but it is hard for me. I am a skeptic of human institutions in general.

[lol]

are there any other kinds.. ?

With that sentiment I'm sure few will have disagreement.

If I may...


What about prometheus, is he what Chip seems to be portraying him to be here? Read Chip's first post here.

Do we have any definite findings from the leadership group in charge if any of a determination on the charges of Chip?


Susma

---

edit by caliban: name change

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:25 AM.

Throwing flame from his mouth,
and blowing smoke from his nostrils,
now pacified and self-consoled.


On last reconnaissance, Chip appeared as thus described by Susma in the title of this post above.

Chip started this thread on July 3, by the next day he had calmed down enough, to no longer nurse his wounds with seething defiance, but as the Christians say to count his blessing:


Dear Chip, I rejoice with you that you are no longer mad, but last sighted after less than a day's duration reveling in your good fortune of a family income that has increased by magnitudes in the last few months, with the potential to increase still further.

Excuse my sounding libidinous to share in your good fortune or good business, would you be generous to let me know, how you manage to increase your family income by magnitudes all in the last few months, with potential of further magnification?

Sounding again libidinously avid myself for more funds in the family coffer -- as I tell friends in humor that money is never too much, what have you gone into for a financially rewarding venture, as to reap such abundant harvest in magnitudes of family income?

How about it? Any tips to Susma always on the lookout for opportunities to make BEQ money, that is: big, easy, and quick money?

I would not complain so much about the favoritism here from powers that be running this forum, if my fortune outside is increasing by leaps and bounds with no end in sight.

No, this is no deviation from the topic of your thread, because you started with fire in your mouth and smoke in your nose against one prometheus, a director of ImmInst, and on last communication has self-appeased yourself.

That is one remarkably fast passage from red hot exasperation ire to tranquil self-assured cold inertia of self-congratulation.

Are you now basking in the assurance from Bruce (BJKlein, I assume, big boss man):



Here is a self-appeased Chip's last shot to the leadership that houses within itself members who edit, delete, and relocate posts indiscriminately, without so much as a by your leave from posters, and blatantly in pursuit of their personal agenda which might not be that professed by the organization:




In the meantime Susma the gadfly here is still waiting for leadership to address the original complaint of Chip, as I reminded earlier the leadership personalities here:



I am still waiting with wicked curiosity, even though Chip has gone into quietude mode, like a babe occupied again with his pacifier, whereas he was spitting fire and bellowing smoke just some moments earlier.

Most intriguing demonstration showing the volatility of a man's mood.


One last word to leadership who might still attend to this thread:

Please inscribe the time of a post submission to the seconds, thus 8:34:23 a.m. or 0834:23 hours, and also assign a number to every post, in consecutive chronological order, and also every thread started, for example thus: Thread #276 Post #7.


Susma

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edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:27 AM.

Thanks, Susma. Your valued suggestions will be considered for future forum improvements.

Susma, I think the suggestion of the time stamp and number would be good if feasible.

I've doubled my work time and my wife has earned a credential and is now employed also. My job stops in about a month as my boss is moving away and I am participating in a conference call this Friday about becoming a warranty service technician for a third party that does work for IBM and Dell. Wish me luck on that one.

I have used Excel to list the top most popular 11 categories of this forum along with their associated replies and topics. Then computed the Replies per Topic. Then factoring out the Topics by dividing that from the last set of statistics one gets an ordering that is very illuminating. Here is the final analysis for 7/5/05 at approximately 10:30 AM PST

Sorted by (R/T)/T

Category (R/T)/T

Religion 0.170
Philosophy 0.130
Politics 0.068
Immortalism 0.066
Free Speech 0.054
Open Discussion 0.045
Introduce Yourself 0.042
Nootropics 0.019
Supplements 0.015
More Resources 0.012
Biotech 0.011

I find it very interesting how all of the soft categories are on top and the hard core science ones at the bottom (with the possible exception of "More Resources"). this can be understood by realizing that the less hard core are most likely the most contentious. Notice how "Introduce Yourself" falls directly between the two as you might expect by intuition, that is, it is not strictly hard core data and most likely also carries a fair amount of speculative belief.

If a person were to come to this forum and wanted to get involved to the extent of gaining power here while not contributing to what appears to be people's main interest and without revealing their intent, I suspect that Biotech would be the category in which they would strive to earn power at this forum. Being relatively hard core science it does not reveal philosophical intent. It is the caregory (of the top 11) that shows least participation by those who really seek to add value and get value from this forum.

Here is the list of categories sorted by replies

Nootropics 6496
Supplements 4871
Politics 4475
Free Speech 4077
Biotech 3923
Open Discussion 3466
More Resources 3204
Philosophy 2892 149
Immortalism 2210 183
Introduce Yourself 2170
Religion 1909

Here's the list sorted by Replies per Topic

Category R/T

Philosophy 19.4
Religion 18
Politics 17.4
Free Speech 14.8
Immortalism 12.1
Nootropics 11.2
Introduce Yourself 9.5
Supplements 8.5
Open Discussion 8
Biotech 6.6
More Resources 6.2

One can see what category has involved a person's main efforts by looking at their profile. I suspect maybe more of a breakdown of such might be available to Directors.

Think about it.

Consider also that many of the posts in the hard science fora are merely informational posts, with little to disagree or bicker about, and more to merely sit back and assimilate, maybe make a comment if you have a brilliant insight into how it fits in with other seemingly-unrelated pieces of information. On the other hand, going forward into the 21st and 22nd centuries, religion will be in an upheaval, and transhumanists will be in a dilemma in trying to decide philosophical issues such as free will and consciousness, areas that we here at ImmInst have had many long debates about. Philosophy is not a soft science if you're concerned that "uploading" in the sense of "transferring one's consciousness" might be tantamount to commiting suicide. You want to be damn sure that we have a pretty "hard" answer to the question of consciousness and qualia and the "self".

So try not to read into this too much. We're not claiming to be a University research lab, though we might dabble in that, and we have our fair share of university students conducting research. We are a bridge to the future, and as such, we must be on the front line of philosophical questions that might slow or otherwise hinder humanity's progress into physical immortality.

Check out that first list again. I am amazed. "More Resources" upon inspection contains a lot of hard core data, even here in the "Catcher" not only with just this thread [!]

"Free Speech" and "Open Discussion" fall togethor in the middle. Religion is at one extreme. Amazing that Biotech appears as a special case, most amount of topics but half the replies of its nearest rival in that regards, Nootropics. It appears as if it is at an extreme of some sort of continuum here.

Looks pretty enough for some one to take the study further and include the other categories, collections of sub-categories too (something peculiar and unique appears to be happening with the Biotech subcategories just via cursory examination). I saw that weirdness of the topics being so out of synch with how they are expressed in other categories, I figured it needed to be filtered out by normalizing to topic, hence the extra division. Lo and behold, we have a pretty succinct picture of something which I haven't quite put to words. "Commitment" maybe? "Intent?" Notice that the three middle categories are really quite neutral territory. Surrounding those are Nootropics and Immortalism. What is the word I am looking for? Would the complete breakdown using all the categories bring it into focus? Something is there. Not meaning to impose any judgment but according to the interests of those who participate here, most sustained relevancy and commitment appears to be found in the middle of this spectrum, the saddle. Religion has commitment without relevancy (now, just according to the statistics mind you , considering commitment as reflected by number of replies per topic) and Biotech has relevancy without commitment (considering relevancy as reflected solely in the number of topics). Am I using the right words yet?

I didn't include the topics data I collected. Here's the whole kit and kaboodle:



I find this incredibly fascinating. Wish I had all the time in the world.

Your naive servant, Susma.


I was attracted to this website of ImmInst when searching for solutions to the problem how to stay alive indefinitely.

It turned out that there are no solutions so far to the problem, not in this website; but I noticed that the commercial slant of the site is evident.


As regards the question itself of life extension, my own sympathy is that computer hardware and software have much more promises to life extension and even restoration, which I prefer to call existence of an individual human than life, the term that is.

Pharmaceutics is too slow and too expensive and too unreliable for the answer to the problem of life extension (which I prefer to call existence of a human individual).

Since I am not a scientist though scientifically oriented -- in my own view of my thinking self, and certainly not one trained in laboratory tasks essential to the pharmaceutic search for life extension, I do not go into threads and posts about nootropics and such related questions.

My interest is therefore on religion and philosophy which however I deal with from the standpoint of a man in the street.

I agree with Chip's finding that these two areas for being above or beyond or freed of scientific exactitude and proof, invite a lot of people who do like to do some thinking and express their views, on a myriad of issues not at present answerable by the hard sciences like physics and chemistry.


From my interactions with people here what I find interesting and disappointing is that there are people here who -- and I am going to say something now which can be overly rash (for being based on my limited impressions from encounters with the few people I do interact with here often), that there is a deficiency on the part of people who though apparently displaying a good mind and a critical one at that, in many instances cannot be honest and truthful and focused in a discussion, and cannot or will not stick to an issue to the very logical end.

In several instances, people don't seem to be able to perceive the matter at issue, or it is because of my kind of English, though from my own possibly biased outlook I would prefer to think that they have the habit of not attending to words and sentences with careful attention.

Consider these four pairs of two quotes each:

A1: you never truly know someone until you fight him.
A2: You never truly know someone until you live with him.

B1: Lying is the stuff of politicians.
B2: Lying is the sibling to stealing.

C1: No man is an island.
C2: No man is a prophet in his own land.*

E1: One man's food is another man's poison.
E2: One man's food is another man's banquet.

taken from my thread "You never truly know...", and visit also the background links to the thread, likewise the recent threads contributed by fellow members in this forum on riddles, consider namely my question to people to:

examine them and pick the one in each pair on the basis of which one of each pair makes universal sense on the basis of the universal experience and value of mankind.

My impression from reactions so far is that people can't seem or do not want to think carefully enough to choose an answer which can stand rational analysis.


Having spoken my mind, I now await brickbats that will certainly come my way.


Susma

*No pair of D1 and D2 because I erroneously thought that I was into letter E when I should be into letter D.

I don't know about the "survey?" you are attempting but I do agree that at least, computer technology is and will continue to have an impact on human longevity, witness this forum. In that vein, I would think an area on the topic would be valuable to this site.

In case one was wondering, the reason why I included the statistics above is in defense of this thread's topic. I begin to think for any forum, if a troll with little commitment to an institute's goal wanted to establish themselves and earn power, their best strategy would be to participate in the area of the forum showing high relevancy but lowest commitment. This way they could fool the staff most easily to gain power. Once esconced, it is probably very rare that a staff of an online forum can retrieve the misplaced authority despite repeated instances of its abuse. Realize that "troll" is a general descriptor and applies to individuals who may or not be aware of their own out-of-synch commitment. Most of the time, one might suspect their commitments would echo conventional cpportunistic propaganda. I believe the Terri Schiavo threads started by the individual in question exemplify such.

So, ah, Susma, I responded. Does that make me a "brickbat?" That is a new word for me but I see it is one. Love to increase my vocabulary, At times I think you have difficulty with people partly due to a language barrier and at other times because you are just smarter than the average Joe.

Thanks for kind words.





I guess, Chip, that makes us two a society of mutual back-patting reciprocating admirers. Hahahaha and hehehehe?

I mean that part about my being smarter than the average Joe. But that part about my language barrier, it is a bit mortifying. Tell me though honestly, do you as a resident of California experience language barrier with a resident of say New York? If you do, then I would not feel so bad about my kind of English.

Anyway, many Americans have language barriers with Bush, right? So that is one consuelo de bobo (Sp. consolation of the dunce) for me.


Thanks again for you kind words, and I hope you didn't get riled with my seeming cross examination of your acquaintanceship with Buddhism, when I put in some posts in another thread of yours here in this forum.


Susma

Oh don't be mortified. It just appears to be misplaced or missing adverbial clauses or some such thing. For example

"I guess, Chip, that makes us two a society of mutual back-patting reciprocating admirers."

I think that grammatically you may have meant "I guess, Chip, that makes us two 'of' a society of mutual back-patting reciprocating admirers."

It just doesn't roll off the subliminal tongue when reading without invoking a bit of confusion within myself. Makes it harder to wade past such to find the many gems in your discourse. No need to take offense.

I did not take offense at your mistakenly assuming my having more involvment in Buddhism than I did. Mistakes happen.

I am just amazed how the main contentions of this thread are being bared in other areas of this forum.

Still no word from the "higher-ups?" Must of struck a chord some where that is still resonating.

Chip, do you have any inkling just how much of an imbecile your ravings betray you to be? You have embarked on an absurd crusade on account that you believe that my stance to prevent TS from being euthanised was motivated by a political agenda. There is nothing further from the truth as anyone that knows me would attest. Nevertheless, if you are genuine in your desire to debate this matter then open a new topic stating the points of contention and making it subject to CIRA. If not, I will happily consider this matter ended and will look forward to no more references of being a "troll", dishonesty, etc.

However, if you persist in your unreassonable behaviour, and take neither of the options offered above, I (as other observers) will be forced to conclude that your motives are founded on a desire to insult me and undermine the integrity of ImmInst, in which case steps will be taken to review the worthiness of your participation.

I have presented my reasonings for my criticism of prometheus having authority and power on this forum. I have not resorted to insult. You should be able to prove that wrong easily if I seek to mislead. prometheus resorts to insult without any offered reason, logic or intelligence. Such is blatant. At least two other members of Imminst's staff appear to have joined in the ad-hominem fest leveled against me. The integrity of Imminst is being compromised and appears to increase. Am I the cause of this? NO. Something else is and it would be wise for Imminst to figure out what it is before much more ill will is brandied about.

I have offered a way to look at the structure and response of the people coming here to recognize weaknesses in how Imminst determines its governance. This is hard statistical data. Can anyone offer me reasons why number of topics in a thread would not indicate relevancy to the membership? Why number of replies might not signify a level of commitment or interest? Interest is a better word. Relevancy is a bit obscure, maybe importance would be more conducive to understanding. As interest in a subject area goes up, importance goes down. As importance of a category increases, interest wanes.

Okay, think I'll see if I can approach even more descriptive and general understanding solely in terms of the base data. As popularity in a subject area goes up its importance decreases. As importance goes up, popularity decreases. In the spectrum between the two extremes we see a distinct pattern of how the categories fall from observation of the number of replies and the number of topics.

People do not want to argue. Their predominant desire is to find some hard data. That is where people find value in Imminst. I believe that if Imminst wanted to become more functional its governance would reflect this rather than the ad-hominem, straw man.

Advisors from fringe categories, should be suspect to wanting subversive control. My understanding is that the status of "advisor" is an entry level into the hierarchy here at Imminst concerning editing, deletion, moving of posts, in short, governing abilities. If "trolls" and that is a big "IF" invade Imminst, there most likely avenue to becoming a part of the governing process of Imminst would be as an advisor from one of the fringe groups, Religion and Biotech, as delineated by the hard core data above. Even if you use just the number of replies without the factoring out of inordinate amounts of topics, you see the distribution maintained with Biotech next to one of the extremes.

prometheus seems a highly credible candidate. Does he use ad-hominem? Does he use insult and bizzare reference? The evidence stands in quite exhaustive predominance.

I still hereby suggest that Imminst recognize that Harold's contributions to Biotech do not accord him the rights to insult, to lies, to editing or moving posts from other categories or some within his own governmental regions. He is from a fringe group, mind you. He seems to participate least in the categories of greatest importance to the mass majority of Imminst's membership. That logically leads one to find he may not hold the stated purpose of Imminst as his goal. He may have another agenda in the grand scheme of things that even he is not conscious of.

In sum total, I find immediate and protracted strong indicative evidence, no insult intended or delivered, that this forum has been and is being directed towards ends that compromise its stated objective. Integrity of Imminst is low in my eyes at least, at the moment.

---

edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:29 AM.

Glad to get a critique of my English. 1


I guess I am into a digression from your thread topic; but since you are the author I suspect you can entertain this digression, or at least ask the powers here to delete or relocate my digression posts.

Incidentally, I have never read completely and carefully all the provisions of the User Agreement here in this forum, but I have come to know some of them in the course of reading messages; and I am not happy with the right of a thread author to lock up his thread, and with the seemingly unlimited time access of posters to edit and even delete their messages.

Tell me frankly, is my kind of English generally more difficult for you to understand than the English of posters here who are, from their use of the English language, evidently native U.S. speakers/writers of the English language?



I notice that you haven't replied to my two queries above. Would you care to favor me with some personal observations?


See next post.


Susma

I have no problem with the New York dialect. I have spent time near Boston and that is a more difficult dialect but I had no problem with it either but my communications in those regards were person to person. In an online forum, we don't have inflections or body language to help.

As far as Bush goes, I do not find him to be a dunce. I think he is quite smart but intelligence is something he seems to lack and evidently does not care to use except as it serves his cultural assumptions. He appears to hold a belief in epistemological relativism, that is, enough propaganda, enough obfuscation and hiding of evidence and "truth" in his eyes becomes that which is forced, not derived via cooperative collective observations. It is then that the double speak predominates, clean air act leading to more air pollution, healthy forests initiative leading to less healthy forests, war against terrorists fomenting great terrorism, etc. An example of such culturally derived imposition of "truth" in spite of contrary evidence is Harold here stating that the Schiavo media circus is about euthanasia. Just heard an interview on Air America radio about the infant euthanasia that is practiced and legal in Denmark. Currently in the US we allow severely deformed infants to die by removing life support even if they have brains and a rudimentary consciousness that registers pain and suffering. We see no "right to lifers" sounding a rally cry against such. Sounds like Denmark is very careful and wise in their approach. The interviewee will have his article posted in the New York Times tomorrow and I will seek it out.

BTW, I don't think I have ever referred to some one as an imbecile, even the down's syndrome kid that lives next door. It is a useless and vacant ad hominem insult when leveled against any one who can type and participate in an online forum. Thing is, some of the staff here seems to be embracing such caca. Oh well.

It is noted, Chip, that you have ignored the offer of debate. Henceforth any ad-hominem attacks (irrespective of how subtly they are introduced in your posts) will be deleted. For your clarification:

I draw your attention to Bylaw A which states under Authority:



And also to Posting Guidelines which state:



The mission of Imminst is jeopardised by posts that are likely to discourage participation and membership.

So, these rules don't apply to you who have done so repeatedly and blatantly while I have not? Put an instance down. Cite your evidence. I just need to look at the post before last of yours to cite your complete disregard of the posting guidelines.

Glad to get a critique of my English. 2


I put our messages through the Flesch-Kincaid* test for readability, and here are its returns:







What do you say, for a native English speaker/writer you have a very slight edge in readability over me? Hahahaha and hehehehe?


Next post please.


Susma


*Flesch-Kincaid Readability scores (From MS Word 1997):

(When Word finishes checking spelling and grammar, it can display information about the reading level of the document, including the following readability scores. Each readability score bases its rating on the average number of syllables per word and words per sentence.)

Flesch Reading Ease score

Rates text on a 100-point scale; the higher the score, the easier it is to understand the document. For most standard documents, aim for a score of approximately 60 to 70.


Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level score

Rates text on a U.S. grade-school level. For example, a score of 8.0 means that an eighth grader can understand the document. For most standard documents, aim for a score of approximately 7.0 to 8.0.

From Susma's own stock knowledge:

Passive sentences: the more passive sentence, the less the readability.

prometheus, I don't think you suggested a topic pertinent to this thread nor even worthy of debate. That would only put your desire to drag TS's name around by the hair some more. You don't think the case is political? The US legislature and executive demonstrated egregiously so that it was political or do you consider them to not be politicians? I guess everyone who knows you must run in amazingly ignorant circles if they would attest to this silliness.

So twisted. Does the rest of the staff here see the inability to debate this thread here? I mean, wouldn't that be exercising a bit of ettiquette?

So obvious. Are the other members afraid of your wrath, Harold, to not speak up or are they ambivalent or actually condoning your abuse of this forum? Either way, it does not speak well of this forum.

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edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:30 AM.

Interesting Susma. May prove quite valuable for me. Will have to investigate that stuff further.