Resveratrol Quality

hello
does anyone know of a commercial or laboratory grade Resveratrol available to the public.

My investigations and readings have shown me that Resveratrol not only decays and loses its potentcy
in normal retail products but it also conjugates quickly in the intestines and liver before it can provide any of the benefits
of a laboratory quality Resveratrol.

I am after a Resveratrol product available to the public of the type of quality as a laboratory product.

thanking you for any help

kevin borg

Look into longivenex (sp?). That may be the closest to what you seek.

Edit: this thread should be moved into supps.

Edited by scottl, 18 November 2006 - 04:34 AM.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

I am responding to the many questions I see at the ImmInst.org website regarding resveratrol.

I warn all readers I am commercially involved with a resveratrol pill company, but am attempting to participate here in a non-commercial way to provide needed information.

The first question is dosage. The recent (Nov. 1, 2006) mouse study published in Nature Magazine utilized a dosage of trans resveratrol of about 1575 mg equivalent for a 160-lb human. A lesser dose, about 364 mg for a 160-pound human, also was beneficial but to a lesser degree. This was for mice fed a 60% fat-calorie diet. Most Americans consume about 35% fat calories. So, based on the mouse study, a guesstimate of the dosage needed to for humans might be around 180 mg. This is achievable with dietary supplements.

While most devotees of resveratrol are attempting to follow the dosage used in the recent mouse study, it must also be recognized that small amounts of resveratrol work in wine (around 1 mg per 5 ounce glass, best wine), since it has been observed that the wine drinking French are leaner, live longer (45-65% longer in wine growing districts) and have lower mortality rates for heart disease (91 per 100,000) than Americans (240 per 100,000) even though the French has similar cholesterol levels and fat-calorie intake.

There is the idea posed that a person should take supplemental resveratrol all at one time to increase blood levels. Resveratrol does have a dose response, but blood levels are difficult to measure and may be meaningless. This is because of the dynamics involved in resveratrol ingestion.

About 70% of resveratrol is believed to be absorbed, and it has a short half life of 14 minutes. If quercetin accompanies resveratrol, it makes more passes through the liver before it is metabolized. Resveratrol is a very small molecule and can pass through cell walls and enter the nucleus where it can flip gene switches. It does this by inhibiting an enzyme, histone deacetylase, thus keeping genes tightly wrapped around nucleosomes so they cannot express proteins. Resveratrol favorably switches thousands of genes in this manner. Small concentrations, as low as nanograms in brain tissues, can be beneficial.

While resveratrol has a short half life, nature provides an extraordinary preservation and delivery system for this molecule. Once it is metabolized (attached or conjugated glucuronate) in the liver, resveratrol is preserved for up to 9 hours. An enzyme abundant at the site of tumors, inflammation or infection (glucuronidase) releases resveratrol for delivery at the right time and place. This is well known and glucuronidation is actually described in some drug patents as a natural method of drug delivery. Some drugs are pre-attached to glucuronate to facilitate this delivery system. This dispels the false information that has been spread that resveratrol is not biologically available. Oral resveratrol worked in the recent mouse study, further evidence that it produces systemtic benefits. In blood tests, if measuring free (unbound) resveratrol, the amount in the blood serum may be miniscule and misleading.

While there is discussion that claims of any superiority by certain brands of resveratrol supplements are specious, the idea that resveratrol needs to be specially preserved became apparent long before this molecule became available as a dietary supplement. Long before current controversies were aired regarding resveratrol, Leroy Creasy, a professor at Cornell University, who discovered resveratrol in wine, claimed resveratrol in dietary supplements was only available in miniscule amounts.

Makers of research-grade resveratrol recognize the vulnerability of trans resveratrol, the form of resveratrol that activates the Sirtuin 1 gene, to change into a different molecule upon exposure to light (this is called photoisomerization). Light can convert trans resveratrol to cis resveratrol, which does not activate the Sirtuin 1 gene. Research-grade resveratrol is carefully sealed in an airtight opaque vial and kept cold, and processed in nitrogen rather than oxygen. In some lab experiments, researchers needed to resupply resveratrol in feeding dishes because it was losing its effect. It is also apparent that strong accompanying antioxidants are needed to stabilize resveratrol in dietary supplements. Virtually all of the lab experiments conducted with resveratrol use research-grade resveratrol, which is not equivalent to common dietary supplements. To date, there are no studies involving resveratrol dietary supplements in animals or humans. All currently published studies involve research-grade resveratrol or red wine.

Wine bottles are airtight, dark, and kept cool, mimicking research-grade resveratrol. Furthermore, the fermentation process concentates resveratrol by alcohol extraction from the grape skin, so wine exhibits health benefits not observed in other foods that contain trace amounts of resveratrol (blueberries, peanuts, mulberries).

There are some potential side effects associated with resveratrol. It is an inhibitor of protective cytochrome p450 enzymes in the liver. These enzymes dull the effect of strong molecules, such as those in drugs. So medications should not be taken simultaneously with resveratrol or the medications may be too strong. This is the same reaction that occurs when ingesting grapefruit juice prior to taking a blood pressure pill, for example. Doctors and pharmacists are familiar with this.

Bill Sardi, San Dimas, California

bsardi, that is fascinating. I too think this should be moved into the supplement section but the powers that be may have other ideas. The fact you are in the business doesn't bother me and they are tollerant towards that here particularly if the person is giving info.

You touched on some things I've been saying myself though I had little to go on beyond what we've seen from casual use such as the french paradox. Do you have any studies you can give a link to to back up what you've told us? Many people here will believe nothing without a link from a website. I too think it must be beneficial in small doses because so little is found in wine. I speculated that the fact it could not be found in the serum didn't mean it was doing nothing but that it must have some means of action that we were not looking for.

Do you have any data on grape consumption and health? I would think eating whole grapes should have a similar effect as drinking wine. I note your observation about light degrading it but the grapes on the vines are exposed to light before winemaking. You mention the possibility that oxygen destroys it. I'm not yet convinced. For one thing, wine bottles do have air in them and supposedly disolved in the wine. It is a common practice to let the wine glass sit and the bottle itself is opened frequently to pour more. Oxygen may have a long term effect but to what degree needs to be discovered.

I hope you will post more info on our website and return for the discussions.

Grapes don't concentrate resveratrol to be helpful in quantities that are conveniently
edible. You must get it through supplementation.

Wine is degraded over time by exposure to the environment.

The French move through bottles of red wine like a knife passing through butter.

It does not have time to degrade.

Grapes don't concentrate resveratrol to be helpful in quantities that are conveniently
edible. You must get it through supplementation.

Wine is degraded over time by exposure to the environment.

The French move through bottles of red wine like a knife passing through butter.

It does not have time to degrade.

LOL!
I dont think you know much about red wine. Most red wines are required to stay in bottle for 2, 4 or more years and very valuable cru gets "better" and better after many years. Only new wine (beaujolais) is of the last year. I can assume with fairly certness that the average age of bottled red wine that the french (and much less but similarly italians) drink is 3 years old.
That they drink more than one glass a day is also true :D

Grapes don't concentrate resveratrol to be helpful in quantities that are conveniently edible. You must get it through supplementation.

Syr already corrected most of your other misinformation. Grapes are quite edible and there is as much or more resveratrol in 8 oz of grapes as in 8 oz of wine. Wine making does not concentrate anything. The skins are steeped in the juice and later removed. The juice is not boiled down or anything like that. There seem to be many myths that have popped up already about resveratrol.

I wanted to know other people's thoughts on two of the longevinex studies.


Study 1: Stability and Shelf Life Study:

http://www.longevine.....ratrol Better

Indicated that 5 non-longevinex samples have on average about 50% of the labeled resveratrol content and had a ratio of trans to CIS of 74%

Indicated that longevinex had on average 95% of the labeled resveratrol content (40g) (not sure that I understand this as I thought longevinex did not label resveratrol content on the package) and a ratio of trans to CIS of 96%.


Study 2: Sirt 1 Activity

http://www.longevine...tory=Imitations

(scroll down page on the link)

Of 14 brands tested, according to the cited study, only Longevinex causes significant Sirt 1 activity.



Questions and Comments (Assume that the studies are accurate).

1. Study 1 does seem to confirm that supplements besides longevinex do contain resveratrol and do contain trans-resveratrol. It appears that you can take non-longevinex supplements and get the same amounts of resveratrol and trans-resveratrol as longevinex, though you might have to take multiple pills to match longevinex.


2. Do you think that longevinex and non-longevinex pills would provide the same benefits provided that you were receiving equal dosages of resveratrol and trans-resveratrol. As mentioned in point 1 above, longevinex's own cited study indicates thatt his is possible. The difference being that the ratio of trans to CIS would likely be different.

3. Do you think that Longevinex performed well in Study 2 due to:

1. having more resveratrol
2. having more trans resveratrol
3. having a higher ratio of trans to cis
4. having some compound besides resveratrol in the pill that is synergistic to resveratrol
5 . some of the above (specifity would help) or all of the above.


4. Any guess as to what brand product B is in study 2? It seems like a good product as it has a high trans to cis ratio.

I can answer #4 -- it was either NSI Resveratrol or Nature's Way Resveratrol Synergy (most people seem to think the latter is more likely).

And how do we know Longivex's studies weren't biased? They do have a huge stake in it and a correspondingly huge incentive to skew the results in their favor by any means available. I would be more interested in an independent third party's analysis. I would want it to be a blind study because even going to a lab and saying 'I want you to test my stuff' gives the lab a motive to give the "right" results. I'm not saying anyone is cheating but it's so easy to come up with the results you wanted that it isn't funny.

I also question the wording on their product. I've been told that it does not state unequivicaly that it has 100 mg of res per cap. We are told that sort of off the record.

How long till we see prelimnary or final survival results in non-obese mice fed resveratrol?

Grapes don't concentrate resveratrol to be helpful in quantities that are conveniently edible. You must get it through supplementation.

Syr already corrected most of your other misinformation. Grapes are quite edible and there is as much or more resveratrol in 8 oz of grapes as in 8 oz of wine. Wine making does not concentrate anything. The skins are steeped in the juice and later removed. The juice is not boiled down or anything like that. There seem to be many myths that have popped up already about resveratrol.

Also, grapes are a high-GI fruit, that is why consuming a big quantity is not recommended and red wine (even considering its alcohol content) is usually preferred.

Also, grapes are a high-GI fruit, that is why consuming a big quantity is not recommended and red wine (even considering its alcohol content) is usually preferred.

You have a point about the sugar content but that is not a major issue. It's really debateable that alcohol would be preferrable. I guess if you like to drink you would say it is but if you like the taste of grapes, you say no. Extracts would be the way to go because to get anywhere near the amounts used in the studies, and I'm not saying I agree we should use that much, you would not be able to get that much from grapes or wine. For casual consumption I see no problem in eating 8oz or so of grapes every day unless one is a diabetic or prediabetic. How many fat people do you know of whose only intake of sugar comes from whole fruit? I don't know of any.

I am responding to the many questions I see at the ImmInst.org website regarding resveratrol.
...
Bill Sardi, San Dimas, California

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response to our questions. I found your post very interesting. I hope you can check in from time to time to answer more questions.

Funk, how do you know product B is nature's way or NSI brand?

Based on the figure of 75mg of resveratrol per capsule that is listed in the test results. That uncommon value helps narrow things down. I feel it is more likely Nature's Way than NSI because Nature's Way is the more popular and widely available brand by far.

Mol Nutr Food Res. 2005 May;49(5):472-81. Links
Metabolism and bioavailability of trans-resveratrol.

Wenzel E,
Somoza V.
German Research Center of Food Chemistry, Garching, Germany. elisabeth.wenzel@lrz.tum.de
Resveratrol (3,4',5-trihydroxy-trans-stilbene) is a polyphenolic compound accounting to the stilbene class. Most stilbenes in plants act as antifungal phytoalexins, compounds that are usually synthesized only in response to infection or injury. Resveratrol has been detected in trees, in a few flowering plants, in peanuts, and in grapevines. The major dietary sources of resveratrol include grapes, wine, peanuts, and peanut products. Numerous in vitro studies describe different biological effects of resveratrol. The major impacts are the antioxidative, anti-inflammatory, and estrogenic effects as well as anticancer and chemopreventive activities. In order to reveal information on absorption, metabolism, and the consequent bioavailability of resveratrol, different research approaches were performed, including in vitro, ex vivo, and in vivo models, all of which are considered in this review. Summarizing the data, resveratrol is absorbed and metabolized. Around 75% of this polyphenol are excreted via feces and urine. The oral bioavailability of resveratrol is almost zero due to rapid and extensive metabolism and the consequent formation of various metabolites as resveratrol glucuronides and resveratrol sulfates. The potential biologic activity of resveratrol conjugates should be considered in future investigations.

The metabolites are active, otherwise nothing would be happening in these mouse studies because apparently, mice metabolize the heck out of resveratrol too. This is discussed at length in the other resveratrol thread.

http://www.imminst.o...&f=6&t=13062&s=

I wanted to know other people's thoughts on two of the longevinex studies.
...

Excellent questions. I am also awaiting Bill's response.

You have a point about the sugar content but that is not a major issue. It's really debateable that alcohol would be preferrable. I guess if you like to drink you would say it is but if you like the taste of grapes, you say no. Extracts would be the way to go because to get anywhere near the amounts used in the studies, and I'm not saying I agree we should use that much, you would not be able to get that much from grapes or wine. For casual consumption I see no problem in eating 8oz or so of grapes every day unless one is a diabetic or prediabetic. How many fat people do you know of whose only intake of sugar comes from whole fruit? I don't know of any.

This has been discussed in the long resveratrol thread. Conclusion: too much grapes would be needed. And the consumption has to be continuous not casual.

Personally i really dont like fresh grapes, while i like (good) red wine

So is it the metabolites or the resveratrol molecule that is the active ingredient?

Grapes don't concentrate resveratrol to be helpful in quantities that are conveniently
edible. You must get it through supplementation.

Wine is degraded over time by exposure to the environment.

The French move through bottles of red wine like a knife passing through butter.

It does not have time to degrade.

LOL!
I dont think you know much about red wine. Most red wines are required to stay in bottle for 2, 4 or more years and very valuable cru gets "better" and better after many years. Only new wine (beaujolais) is of the last year. I can assume with fairly certness that the average age of bottled red wine that the french (and much less but similarly italians) drink is 3 years old.
That they drink more than one glass a day is also true :D

You totally misunderstood what I posted and you clearly don't know much about resveratrol.
Of course we all know that certain wines, when aged, in originally sealed bottles, improve with
age or get more valuable. So what? That's a non-sequitur to my comments

If I open a bottle of wine and leave it open or pour it into a clear bottle, it won't last long.
The resveratrol will last even shorter.

Light, oxygen, and heat destroy resveratrol. This has been shown time and again. Any other
approach is folly.

The concentrations necessary to get the kinds of results in the lab animals requires more than
grapes and wine Bacchus. And peanuts won't do it. The point of my comment was that the
French drink their bottles whole and do not like to leave a bottle opened for longer than a day.
But that doesn't completely help them either.

You can only get the kind of concentration spoken about in the recent Nature and Cell studies
from a Licaps pill and one with a great delivery method, like Longevinex. Lately Longevatrol
has put up a challenge to Longevinex but I know of no bio-assays of Longevatrol. Note, there
is yet another competing product named Longevitrol but it is not Licaps-encapsulated as
are Longevinex and Longevatrol, so I would never consider it.

Two Longevinex 100mg pills for an average 80kg man or one-two100mg pills for an average woman
twice a day, so 400mg and 300mg respectively per day dosage, should keep the necessary longevity
genes activated round the clock and further provide the kinds of concentration to get at least
the results from Nature though not those from Cell. The endurance-related results of 2x endurance
for resveratrol-taking rodents, was at a higher concentration still.

Further, these are concentrations that the lead researcher, and his family, and his lab assistants all take.

That's good enough for me.

I have asked for evidence that exposure to air rapidly degrades resveratrol but never got a response. I just see the statement made over and over that this is supposedly true. People who make this statement ignore the fact that grapes on the vine are exposed to air during their entire growing period. The wine itself is exposed to air during the fermenting process and there is some air in the bottles and dissolved in the wine. Grapes are likewise exposed to not only light but direct sunlight during their growth. If light degraded the res so rapidly, there would be none left.

the French drink their bottles whole and do not like to leave a bottle opened for longer than a day.

I wonder where this little fiction came from? Wine is very often drunk little by little and a bottle may last months or years in some instances. One person may drink only 8 oz a day or less and a 1 liter bottle will last a while, even longer for larger bottles. Not all french are alcoholics.

I still would like hear some coments on this product
http://www.procapsla...x?pid=268435830
granted it's not using lipcap but reading contradictory papers on stability i'm less certain it's an issue...
anyone care to expound on the companys credibility?

(ups missed a few words when first posing :-) )

I have asked for evidence that exposure to air rapidly degrades resveratrol but never got a response. I just see the statement made over and over that this is supposedly true. People who make this statement ignore the fact that grapes on the vine are exposed to air during their entire growing period. The wine itself is exposed to air during the fermenting process and there is some air in the bottles and dissolved in the wine. Grapes are likewise exposed to not only light but direct sunlight during their growth. If light degraded the res so rapidly, there would be none left.

This appears to depend on the matrix. In wine, it appears to degrade rapidly when exposed to oxygen. In powdered form in pills, apparently not so. I am not sure why is this but may have to do with the fact that resveratrol dissolves in alcohol.

Edited by opales, 30 November 2006 - 01:03 PM.

Here's some links to some potentially quality Resveratrol supps:

http://www.vitacost....ith-Resveratrol

http://www.t-nation....c.do?id=1158493

In all my time reading/researching supplements, I have never read so much confusion over such a potentially life-enhancing product as Resveratrol... does it or doesn't it degrade rapidly?

Are older products such as AOR's pronogenol useful?

Pun intended, I have heard through the 'grapevine' that AOR has a forthcoming resveratrol product called Acta-resveratrol, but have no further info, unfortunately.

You totally misunderstood what I posted and you clearly don't know much about resveratrol.

Ah Yes? What did I say about resveratrol that is blatantly wrong?

You have a point about the sugar content but that is not a major issue. It's really debateable that alcohol would be preferrable. I guess if you like to drink you would say it is but if you like the taste of grapes, you say no. Extracts would be the way to go because to get anywhere near the amounts used in the studies, and I'm not saying I agree we should use that much, you would not be able to get that much from grapes or wine. For casual consumption I see no problem in eating 8oz or so of grapes every day unless one is a diabetic or prediabetic. How many fat people do you know of whose only intake of sugar comes from whole fruit? I don't know of any.

This has been discussed in the long resveratrol thread. Conclusion: too much grapes would be needed. And the consumption has to be continuous not casual.

Personally i really dont like fresh grapes, while i like (good) red wine

I prefer popping a concentrated pill instead of gorging on sugar-ladden grapes
and instead of getting tannin-induced headaches and drunkenness from red wine.

I can't even fathom taking 2-3 glasses of red wine daily especially on working days.

It just doesn't fit the American work-a-day guy's lifestyle and in fact is outright
banned at my company (alcohol on premises) or intoxication when coming onto
the premises. Impairs judgment and social graces as well.

Nope - for me Longevatrol and Longevinex are the right way to go.

Stuart

Everyone except opales is dodging totally the issue of degradation of resveratrol and proof thereof.

This appears to depend on the matrix. In wine, it appears to degrade rapidly when exposed to oxygen. In powdered form in pills, apparently not so. I am not sure why is this but may have to do with the fact that resveratrol dissolves in alcohol.

That makes sense. Do you have any links to substantiate the degradation of res in wine? What does "rapidly" mean here, days, months, years? This is getting like a rumor that is spread from person to person and no one knows where it started.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

There is a must listen to report on npr.org on Resveratrol. They did a number of interviews with the who's who of resveratrol news makers this morning. Sardi, Sinclair, Gerald Gawne of resveratrolnews.com. The report is the typical "let's be cautious" slant, but there is some great info included. Like Sardi's belief that all the resveratrol bulk supplies in the United States are gone and probably all the resveratrol in China too. The best news is that Dr. Cooperman of Consumerlab.com says that he will begin testing resveratrol supplements in the next few months. With demand outstripping supply I expect supplement quality to go down, maybe way down.
http://www.npr.org/t...storyId=6559217