Still seeking Resveratrol bulk purchasers

Hi all,

Below is another message from Paul looking for more purchasers of pure synthetic (>99%)Resveratrol. The
current amount committed to purchase is 16.5 kgs(!) but he is looking for more people to bump it over 20 or
even 25kgs. This is prolly your best shot for synthetic ResV for awhile, it sounds like things are tightening up. [huh]

He has also started an email group for committed purchasers to keep us informed.

-Malbec


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Notice of Joint Bulk Purchase of >99% pure synthetic Resveratrol

Participants are being sought for a joint bulk purchase of >99% pure
fully synthetic trans-resveratrol, exactly as was used in the last two
major published mouse feeding studies http://pmid.us/17086191
http://pmid.us/17112576. In these studies trans-resveratrol, at
human
equivalent daily dosages of approximately 5 and 50 mg/kg/day
respectively, was shown to have major beneficial effects as a calorie
restriction mimetic, and on enhanced mitochondrial activity resulting
in more energy and stamina respectively. The pure synthetic has the
advantage that it is completely free from plant contaminants which may
have negative effects, while being exactly the same chemical as occurs
in nature in red wine (among other sources). In order to obtain a
supply of trans-resveratrol for myself and other interested parties, I
am seeking others to join me in a large bulk purchase so that together
we may get the far lower price per gram that the supplier will give for
a large order. I have already successfully received and distributed to
the initial joint purchase participants 4 kg from Orchid Chemicals and
Pharmaceuticals Ltd of Chennai, India, which company supplied the
product used in the two above mentioned experiments.

Here are the terms of commitment for new joint bulk purchase participants.

Terms and Conditions of Joint Bulk Purchase as of Jan 31, 2007

Pricing

100 grams @ $4.00 per gram,
200 grams @ $3.65 per gram,
300 grams @ $3.40 per gram,
400 grams @ $3.25 per gram,
500 grams @ $3.15 per gram.

Packaging

All purchases are packaged in 50 or 100 gm amounts in polypropylene
(PP) zip-lock bags with all air expelled before the bag is closed. PP
bags are much more moisture and air proof than are polyethylene (PE)
bags (the standard that one gets at the supermarket). Each PP bag is
placed in a zip-lock PE sandwich bag for added protection. Multiple
bags are then placed into a bubble envelope which is then placed inside
a USPS flat rate priority mail envelope for shipments of 200 grams or
less and a priority box for more than that. (For those outside the US
things will be done a little differently as appropriate to your import
needs.)

Storage, handling and Dosage

If the bags are kept in a freezer (all processes are slower at a lower
temperature), and inside a light proof container (dark bottle or HDPE
container), then research, reading and discussions with others suggests
that there will be little degradation over a period of 2 years. The
mice researchers stated nothing about storage in nitrogen during the
experiment and most of the storage time was in a refrigerator mixed
with chow. During actual usage everyone would be wise to expel all air
from the bag whenever it is reclosed after getting some out of it.

When you remove some resveratrol from a larger package, only remove
enough to last for, say, ten days or 2 weeks at a time and, when not in
use, keep it in a small PP ziplock bag in a dark bottle in the
refrigerator. Small PP zip-lock bags will be enclosed with every
shipment package for the purpose of keeping this smaller in-use amount
in the refrigerator.

As for dosage, standard dosage increasing procedures for any new
chemical suggests that it will be safest to start at 0.5 mg/kg daily
and double every 2 weeks until you reach at least 5 mg/kg (which is
what Dr David Sinclair takes and what I am taking), but this is really
a matter of individual choice and desire for experimentation. With
respect to upper limits of dosage, note that there is no evidence of
toxicity for resveratrol even at a human equivalent dosage of
75 mg/kg/day - http://pmid.us/15329443.

Shipping and payment

All prices include priority mail (USPS) shipping to US addresses and a
copy of the Certificate of Analysis (COA) of the product.
Insurance of package costs extra.
Out of US shipping incurs a $25 surcharge (only $15 to Canada) with no
customs entry guarantees.
Email me your full legal name, physical and postal addresses, phone
number and amount desired.
Be prepared to pay in advance by check or money order as soon as there
are sufficient number of participants to place a large order (25 kg)
which is
likely within a month (there are already over 16 kg worth of participants),
since this is a joint bulk purchase and must be fully prepaid.
I will email you when I need prepayment.

Responsibility for Loss

Everyone should be aware that although all joint purchasers received
their allotted share of the first partial shipment, there is always
some possibility that an entire future shipment, or merely a shipment
to a particular joint purchaser, will be lost. Although as the
coordinator of this prepaid joint bulk purchase I promise to do
everything that I possibly can to prevent any such loss, I do not bear
any responsibility for refunding any money in the case of any such
loss.

--Paul Wakfer - paul@morelife.org

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting

Anyone notice that the cover story of Fortune (Vol. 155, No 2) is "Drink Wine and Live Forever". RSV is breaking all the barriers for supplements by getting all of this coverage, and not being a pharmaceutical invention with tons of marketing money behind it.

I REALLY recommend that people join this bulk purchase. It may be the last chance in a long while to get pure RSV at such a cheap price, because Paul is finding it to be a huge hassle to coordinate this and may not do it again anytime soon. I'm buying 1000 grams, and I already got a 200 grams from a previous joint purchase. Pure RSV is super easy to take, as it's tasteless and you can just drop on your tongue and swallow. What I do is put my dosage (250mg, twice daily, for a total of 500mg) on a piece of 70% dark chocolate, and then eat. Deeeelicious.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

OK- dumb question:

You're taking 500 mg/day or, at current consumption, your 200 grams oughta last you 400 days, assuming you take it every day.

An additional kg will last you an additional 2000 days or more than 5 additional years. Or do you plan on a.) increasing your dose, b.) providing resveratrol for others (family, pets, friends, etc.)?

Are you concerned with degradation over 6 years, if staying at current dose schedule and using this supply only for yourself?

Edited by tintinet, 06 February 2007 - 07:54 PM.

I'm sharing my purchase with a girlfriend, and parents. Also, I suspect that using good storage techniques it will last well beyond the two years that is the currently accepted duration of well stored RSV.

This may be the last chance for years to get high-purity resveratrol.

The FDA will be reconsidering the status of resveratrol in June or July. They can either leave things as they are, tolerate 50% or lower supplements, or ban it as a supplement altogether. I've heard from one person who deals with the supplement industry in Washington, that the pharmaceutical companies are pushing for a ban. I think the FDA won't go that far, but require it be an herbal product in association with the substances that occur naturally in the herb it comes from. This means they could limit the extract to less than 50% resveratrol, and require the laxative emodin and other substances from Polygonum cuspidatum to be in the extract. This will make it not possible to take such large doses as we would like in order to see all the life-extending CR mimetic effects we want.

Unless you belong to the megadose club, I see no reason to pay those prices. BAC offers it for the equivalent of about 50 cents a gram in the form of polygonum extract. That's where I'm getting my next order from. This Paul may be an excellent person but if you read the fine print he does not guarantee you will get your order. If for some reason the shipment is seized by customs and held up or destroyed, your money is lost or left in limbo for years. Likewise if it's lost in the mail. The smallest order is for $400 for 100gm. You can get 100gm rsv (200gm extract @ 50%) from BAC for $48 or just order what you need.

I realize that if you megadose you may need the purified stuff to avoid the laxative effects but I am not sold on megadosing. With all due respect to Duke and other megadosers, I do not go that route. Another strike against the purified form is that it's a synthetic and may be slightly different than the natural form. The extract from tiger cane and other botanicals may have valuable related substances along with it much like C from natural sources often has related bioflavinoids and related substances which you won't get from a lab made synthetic. Lab studies almost always use huge doses which later are found to be excessive of actual amounts needed. Looking at historical data such as the so called french paradox indicates that much smaller doses may be effective. But, that's getting off into another subject.

I'm sharing my purchase with a girlfriend, and parents.  Also, I suspect that using good storage techniques it will last well beyond the two years that is the currently accepted duration of well stored RSV.

Thanks!

Another strike against the purified form is that it's a synthetic and may be slightly different than the natural form. The extract from tiger cane and other botanicals may have valuable related substances along with it much like C from natural sources often has related bioflavinoids and related substances which you won't get from a lab made synthetic. Lab studies almost always use huge doses which later are found to be excessive of actual amounts needed.

In this case there is no difference between the synthetic and the natural form. Resveratrol is a simple molecule and all the stereochemistry is well understood. Both cis and trans have been studied, and trans is the stuff you want. The mouse studies have used the synthetic form, and they have done dose response studies. Smaller doses don't work. I'm pretty sceptical about things that I will put in my body, and I am on board with this. I'm a member of the group purchase, and am thinking about upping my buy, mostly on the basis that I think there is a fair chance that clean resveratrol is going to get harder to buy in the future. I have little doubt that SRT501 or other congeners will be an improvement over resveratrol, but I guarantee you they are years away.

Unless you belong to the megadose club, I see no reason to pay those prices. BAC offers it for the equivalent of about 50 cents a gram in the form of polygonum extract. That's where I'm getting my next order from. This Paul may be an excellent person but if you read the fine print he does not guarantee you will get your order. If for some reason the shipment is seized by customs and held up or destroyed, your money is lost or left in limbo for years. Likewise if it's lost in the mail. The smallest order is for $400 for 100gm. You can get 100gm rsv (200gm extract @ 50%) from BAC for $48 or just order what you need.

I realize that if you megadose you may need the purified stuff to avoid the laxative effects but I am not sold on megadosing. With all due respect to Duke and other megadosers, I do not go that route. Another strike against the purified form is that it's a synthetic and may be slightly different than the natural form. The extract from tiger cane and other botanicals may have valuable related substances along with it much like C from natural sources often has related bioflavinoids and related substances which you won't get from a lab made synthetic. Lab studies almost always use huge doses which later are found to be excessive of actual amounts needed. Looking at historical data such as the so called french paradox indicates that much smaller doses may be effective. But, that's getting off into another subject.

Xanadu,

I think that many people are interested in the higher dosing as that is what was used in the recent Nature paper (PMID 17086191) and others; the Nature study had 2 dose levels at 5 mg/kg/d and ~22 mg/kg/d.

In this study and others, the ResV that was used was the synthetic form, not the natural extract. Just to play the devil's advocate, how do you know there isnt some other plant toxin that is co-purified in the polgonum cuspidatum extract? Just a thought.....



Malbec

The mouse studies have used the synthetic form, and they have done dose response studies. Smaller doses don't work.

You are looking at mouse vs human and there are going to be large differences of metabolism and ways and timing of reacting to it. It's very tricky to scale up or down to say what 5mg/kg in a mouse equals in a human. You also have to consider that the lab doing the test did not want to waste any time and wanted results right away regardless of any long term consequences. Humans are not so concerned about what will happen in a few months as they are about longer term. Finally, how can you say "Smaller doses don't work." when all doses have been found to have a beneficial effect in humans at least down to a fraction of that amount? It may be that if you are in a big hurry, like the steroid users, you would megadose. RSV may have nasty side effects at those larger doses, even pure RSV which this is not quite.

Just to play the devil's advocate, how do you know there isnt some other plant toxin that is co-purified in the polgonum cuspidatum extract? Just a thought.....

I answered most of your other comments already. It is possible what you said but wouldn't that show up when it was concentrated? If imodum, for example, was toxic then we would have found out about it right away. There is no motive on the plant's part to produce a toxin that is so weak it's only effective at hundreds of times the concentration found in the plant. The plant is not waiting around for some creature to concentrate the toxin. Therefore, there is no reason to produce something like that.

Nothing happens without a reason. Many compounds which are beneficial to animals are also beneficial to plants. Plants produce them to help themselves. Toxins are to ward off a certain type of enemy and must provide a substantially positive cost/benefit ratio or they are discarded. They have made genes that were placed into bacteria to produce insulin, for example, and they always find that the bacteria pass the gene along at first but it's rapidly discarded and the strain loses that ability. They have to then make another batch with the gene. It's because the gene provided no benefit to the bacteria using it. It was therefore a burden on the animal forcing it to work for humans. Bacteria without the gene had a big advantage and pushed the altered bacteria out of the way in a relatively few generations. Any genes that coded for a weak poison would either have to produce a positive effect for the plant or be tossed aside.

You are looking at mouse vs human and there are going to be large differences of metabolism and ways and timing of reacting to it. It's very tricky to scale up or down to say what 5mg/kg in a mouse equals in a human. You also have to consider that the lab doing the test did not want to waste any time and wanted results right away regardless of any long term consequences. Humans are not so concerned about what will happen in a few months as they are about longer term. Finally, how can you say "Smaller doses don't work." when all doses have been found to have a beneficial effect in humans at least down to a fraction of that amount? It may be that if you are in a big hurry, like the steroid users, you would megadose. RSV may have nasty side effects at those larger doses, even pure RSV which this is not quite.

Yes, it's true that I'm putting a lot of faith in mouse studies, and the history of drug development is absolutely littered with things that did not translate well from mouse to human. Dose scaling is also difficult. At best there are rules of thumb, but nothing absolute. Several things make the resveratrol case different than many new chemical entities: It has been used extensively in humans through dietary exposure, and by now there is a large anecdotal usage from supplements. There have been a number of small clinical studies in humans looking at PK and acute safety. All the evidence to date says that it is very nontoxic, even at much larger doses than I would use. Regarding "smaller doses don't work", my mistake- I misremembered that. When I dug up the info, the 5 mg/kg dose was said to have "similar but less pronounced" effects compared to the 22mg/kg dose, and the lower dose results were not reported in the Nature paper. This had left me with the sense that the effect at the lower dose was not very impressive, but we don't really know that.

bottom line? I dont have 400 dollars to find out that resveratrol misses the mark for humans. Hell, even if the results were fairly good I don't have 400 dollars to spend on something that isn't necessary for life.

If someone wants to purchase a 100gram deal and wants someone to buy some from them to split it up I would be totally cool with that...

pm me if you want...

I'm very interested in participating, but what if....

You buy RSV for a duration of 2 years and find yourself in a position after these 2 years that RSV has become a substance that is very difficult to obtain again for, let's say, regulatory issues? What are the side-effects of stopping mega-dosing RSV instantly? Nobody knows I guess?

Edit: How do I find out if importing RSV to the Netherlands might be a restricting issue? has there been any experience with my country or the EU in general?

Edited by brainbox, 07 February 2007 - 10:15 PM.

Not EU here, switzerland :-) but i never ever had any trouble getting stuff from dealers that practice good business (like, Relentless Improvement or iHerb my two main suppliers and thus fav's :-) ). I guess you're ok unless you live in germany where i heard it can be a problem.

Hope this helps.

Ah, thanks. I like Switzerland, just had a holiday there for a week near Interlaken (Beatenberg). Not much snow though, hope that will improve a bit.

I just tried to contact Paul by e-mail, but apparently there's something wrong with his e-mail, either full or something else; it got delayed.

Ah Switzerland! I love Switzerland....

Heh, no snow here... we rarely have snow anyway. (Basel, you know... Novartis, Roche, Lonza yadda yadda)

Brainbox,

Ah, thanks. I like Switzerland, just had a holiday there for a week near Interlaken (Beatenberg). Not much snow though, hope that will improve a bit.

I just tried to contact Paul by e-mail, but apparently there's something wrong with his e-mail, either full or something else; it got delayed.

Try emailing him again. My guess his inbox is filling up fast with emails. I just got a response from him concerning the bulk purchase. It's getting closer to the minumum needed to place the order.

[thumb]

I'm very interested in participating, but what if....

You buy RSV for a duration of 2 years and find yourself in a position after these 2 years that RSV has become a substance that is very difficult to obtain again for, let's say, regulatory issues? What are the side-effects of stopping mega-dosing RSV instantly? Nobody knows I guess?

Edit: How do I find out if importing RSV to the Netherlands might be a restricting issue? has there been any experience with my country or the EU in general?

It depends on where the product comes from.

A good source as many know is the Japanese Knotweed, which is a weed that takes over and crowds out native species when introduced into a new area. Most people who deal with this weed only understand it to be a headache, and do not know of the rich Resveratrol content it has.

Read more here:
http://www.invasives.../knotweed.shtml

To that effect, I predict Resveratrol initially will go up in price this year, until growers surface locally to produce batches using this weed. I see the price stabilizing toward the end of the year, possibly in the first quarter of 2008, as small farmers start producing this 'weed' and supply it to companies like RevGenetics to purify and make a viable product.

Resveratrol will be easier to obtain, and will be used. I highly doubt it will become a commodity until the research and politics have genuinely been put to rest on Resveratrol, even then the scientific news needs to be very dramatic for human studies.

When prices come down, you will see it reflected at RevGenetics website, but I don't see that happening until 2008. In the meantime, I take my 4 pills of RevGenetics R500 a day and look toward the future.

Thanks
Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

Okay, just hopping on this train. What are the options for this buy, prices? I'm a well broke student but I wouldn't mind getting a fair chunk.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

The first post in the thread has all the terms and conditions of the group buy pasted. If you want to participate, you'll need to email your intentions and arrange mailing in the $ . One thing to stress is that the group buy is just that - a group of buyers. Each individual is assuming the risks for their individual purchase. Make sure you understand what you are getting into, it is not a simple offer to purchase a product directly.

The original group has received a partial shipment - that is the Orchid product some are posting about. Where the next product will be sourced from is still under consideration.


OBW