Nootropics for Attention Deficit Disorder

I was diagnosed about 6 months ago with Attention Deficit Disorder and am 23 years old. I have been taking Adderall for about 4 months at 30mg per day. I find the Adderall helps my energy level a great deal but does little else. I am wondering if any nootropics might aid the Adderall in the areas of concentration, memory, and focus. I have always had some tics and they seem worse with Adderall. Any help in this area would be very useful also. If there are Nootropics that might help, then the dose and time of day for taking would also help. Also any antioxidants that would be especially important while using Adderall and nootropics.

Thanks for your help.
ADDGirl

While this is not a direct answer to your request and I encourage those that have been giving the wonderful advice found on our site to please do so, I would add that perhaps you review the articles that I have referenced in this post as well.

We are coming to a new understanding about the complexity of many learning disorders and in addition to treating them with a variety of new methods there's one issue that is also becoming more apparent that it is also diet related.

It would be nice if saying that simplified matters but it doesn't. But as we come to understand the complex genetic relationships, it is possible to better tailor our diet to meet the demands of these different metabolisms and augment our diets with appropriate types and amounts of substances to include nootropes.

Recent studies have linked essential fish oils with a variety of mental disorders including severe depression and schizophrenia, as well as other crucial aspects like prevention of cancer.

The reason may be that we evolved as a species far more dependent on fish as our source of nutrient proteins and complex fats than we have come to expect in the period of land based domestic meat sources that have all been developed in the relatively recent post glacial period. Our genes may be demanding some substances from essential fish oils that we are ignoring and we are risking the loss of from environmental degradation of the oceans. (a separate but related issue)

I suggest googling ADD and reviewing a number of different approaches to its treatment in children and adults; a number of which that have shown marked success have focused on diet, both what people should consume and what they shouldn't. This also is a question of how much they should consume and whether specific activities involving exercise of both mind and body work in a way to combine (potentiate) effects for the positive and/or the negative ones. What is clear from a cursory review is that the more we are learning at the moment about these disorders, more questions are being raised than immediately answered.

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Lazarus, Thank you for the information. I will review the links. I have started taking fish oil capsules and trying to eat more fish. I am sure this is a long term solution. In doing a Google there is so much information you would almost think everything is a cause and anything that each website sells is a solution. The reputable sites seem to have a few studies with mixed results and no real solutions. I will keep experimenting. Thanks again for the information.

A friend of mine in Southern California, Ben, has ADHD and intends to "correct" it using EEG and self-training.

http://www.livejourn...adhd/61653.html

I also have ADHD and currently take a medium dose of Ritalin (60 mg per day). I also take mega-multivitamins and 2000 mg fish oil capsules every day. Since starting the fish oil I have felt that my moods have improved.

I like the way the Ritalin helps me concentrate. However, sometimes I worry that it is going to stress my heart...I don't have a particularly rapid heartbeat, nor do I have any prediagnosed heart problems. However, since it is a stimulant I hope that it does not in any way interfere with my immortalist ambitions. I have been taking the ritalin for about 8 years now and have had no side effects, so perhaps I have nothing to worry about. I just wonder if there is any long term data on healthy people who take Ritalin over a period of many years.

I'm hoping that someday in the future there will be some kind of cool mental enhancement device that can fix ADHD permanently. THAT would be really nice!

-azalyn

Hi addgirl, my partner has adhd and has derived great benefit from deanol a dmae preperation,
it aids her focus, and apparently stabilises brain waves. According to Patrick Holfords (nutricianist) book natural highs it was shown to be more effective than ritalin, but I dont know what evidence there is supporting his claims.
Deanol can be found cheaply online and in our experience is worth a go.

Ticktok, Deanol sounds interesting. Do you have an internet source that you are happy with. In doing a search it becomes confusing because deanol is offered as super deanol, pure deanol, deanol/dmae and so on. Some of the brands claim only theirs works. Good ol' marketing, lol. I would interested in trying the brand that worked for your partner. Does DMAE work about the same? It sounds like for best results it should be taken on an empty stomach early in the day. Is this her routine? What dose works well for her? Sorry about so many questions.
Thanks very much for your help.

Edited by addgirl, 17 September 2003 - 07:23 PM.

Anyone else have any updates on this?

One of the best treatments my patients have noticed is Pyritinol from 200-1,000 mg daily.

I have now been taking DMAE for about 4 weeks and it does actually seem to be doing something. I'm kind of surprised, because though nootropics sound very interesting, I am skeptical by nature and did not expect to necessarily "feel" different...but I do!

I am taking the DMAE in conjunction with grape seed extract, fish oil, my daily multivitamin (which includes COQ10, choline, and bioflavonoids in addition to the usual stuff like Vitamin C and niacin), and Ritalin (60 mg per day). I find that the DMAE seems to have a synergistic action with the Ritalin; that is, I concentrate much better with both that with one or the other.

The first interesting thing I noticed about DMAE was that it suddenly seemed easier to put my thoughts into words. I never had any trouble writing or communicating verbally, but now it seems that writing is practically effortless. Maybe it's coincidence or the placebo effect, but I thought I should note it.

I haven't had any troublesome side effects, or any side effects at all, for that matter.

-azalynn

I havn't tried it yet, but it seems to me that Deprenyl would have a positive impact on ADD/ADHD - given ADD's link to low dopamine levels, and Deprenyl's Mao-B inhibition effects - since Mao-B metabolizes Dopamine. I'm not fully sure but its quite likely I have add - going in for tests thursday.

A Piracetam study was just done with ADHD, see posting Piracetam-The Original Nootropic.

Deanol (DMAE) was originally used in "minimal brain dysfunctions", the precursor term for ADD/ADHD. Dosage was around 300-600mg day, if I remember.

If you can find the study please post it.

Thank you

If you can find the study please post it.

Thank you

Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1975 May;17(5):534-40. 

Deanol and methylphenidate in minimal brain dysfunction.

Lewis JA, Young R.

Deanol, a putative acetylcholine precursor, has been used as a treatment for childhood hyperactivity for years. Efficacy has not been satisfactorily established, however. Seventy-four children referred for problems with learning, including many with hyperactivity, were screened for neurological or psychiatric illness, then given deanol, methylphenidate, or placebo in a double-blind fashion for 3 months. Maintenance dose for methylphenidate was 40 mg daily; for deanol, 500 mg. Behavior rating forms, reaction time, and a series of standard psychometric tests were given before and after treatment. Both drugs showed significant improvement on a number of tests; the pattern and degree of change differed slightly for the two. In this paradigm, deanol thus appeared to improve performance in children with learning and behavior disorders. The mechanism of action remains speculative; proof that deanol increases acetylcholine is scanty, and there is a theoretical basis for actually assuming an anticholinergic effect. Further clinical studies on deanol are indicated.

Just noticed it doesn't look like anyone has brought up ALCAR on this thread


Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2002 Jul;67(1):33-8. Related Articles, Links


Efficacy of carnitine in the treatment of children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Van Oudheusden LJ, Scholte HR.

Department of Pediatrics, Westfries Gasthuis, Hoorn, The Netherlands. oudheusden@wxs.nl

To determine safety and the efficacy of carnitine treatment in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The ADHD behavior was observed by parents completing the Child Behavior Checklist (CBCL) and by teachers completing the Conners teacher-rating score, in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled double-crossover trial. In 13/24 boys receiving carnitine, home behavior improved as assessed with the CBCL total score (P < 0.02). In 13/24 boys, school behavior improved as assessed with the Conners teacher-rating score (P < 0.05). Before treatment, the CBCL total and sub-scores were significantly different from those of normal Dutch boys (P < 0.0001). Responders showed a significant improvement of the CBCL total scores compared to baseline (P < 0.0001). In the majority of boys no side effects were seen. At baseline and after carnitine treatment, responders showed higher levels of plasma-free carnitine (P < 0.03) and acetylcarnitine (P < 0.05). Compared to baseline, the carnitine treatment caused in the responsive patients a decrease of 20-65% (8-48 points) as assessed by the CBCL total problem rating scale. Treatment with carnitine significantly decreased the attention problems and aggressive behavior in boys with ADHD.

Just noticed it doesn't look like anyone has brought up ALCAR on this thread


Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2002 Jul;67(1):33-8.  Related Articles, Links 

 
Efficacy of carnitine in the treatment of children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Van Oudheusden LJ, Scholte HR.

Department of Pediatrics, Westfries Gasthuis, Hoorn, The Netherlands. oudheusden@wxs.nl

To determine safety and the efficacy of carnitine treatment in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The ADHD behavior was observed by parents completing the Child Behavior Checklist (CBCL) and by teachers completing the Conners teacher-rating score, in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled double-crossover trial. In 13/24 boys receiving carnitine, home behavior improved as assessed with the CBCL total score (P < 0.02). In 13/24 boys, school behavior improved as assessed with the Conners teacher-rating score (P < 0.05). Before treatment, the CBCL total and sub-scores were significantly different from those of normal Dutch boys (P < 0.0001). Responders showed a significant improvement of the CBCL total scores compared to baseline (P < 0.0001). In the majority of boys no side effects were seen. At baseline and after carnitine treatment, responders showed higher levels of plasma-free carnitine (P < 0.03) and acetylcarnitine (P < 0.05). Compared to baseline, the carnitine treatment caused in the responsive patients a decrease of 20-65% (8-48 points) as assessed by the CBCL total problem rating scale. Treatment with carnitine significantly decreased the attention problems and aggressive behavior in boys with ADHD.

There is nothing special occuring with any of the medicaments used in ADD/ADHD since the drugs cause the same response in adults. Stimulants improve concentration and focus in nearly everyone that use them. I am not impressed with the research that deals with ADD/ADHD, as I am not quite convinced that it has an organic basis, or is not related to parenting.

Binaural entrainment techniques have been anecdotaly effective. Holosync (www.centerpointe.com) and Insight or Focus(www.awakenedminds.com) are products which are popular. There are other companies around, as well. I think Awakened Minds might have done some studies, check their web site.

ADD/ADHD is controversial, and at this point we are not be able to attribute it to mechanism(s) that are malfunctioning in the brain. I think it's a more of a affliction that was created by the medical community to classify those who have lower than average attention spans and/or hyperactive tendencies.

Yeah, such is the case with most psychiatric illnesses. However, they can still serve as general classifications for people with related problems or issues that they want to solve, such as inability to concentrate. The problem is when there is a stigma attached because it is an "illness."

I'm going to try and do more research with neurofeedback when I get the chane, but after stopping by sherwyns in chicago yesterday - stuff I was told to look at was Pyritinol and Bacopa....well, that plus Modanfil, but that requires a prescription.

Consider Adrafinil as an alternative to Modafinil, it's much cheaper and works almost as well from what I've heard. Nuerofeedback seems to be used for relaxation purposes mostly but I suppose inducing higher frequency brain waves could lead to increased concetration, focus, and increased higher level cognitive functions.

Consider Adrafinil as an alternative to Modafinil, it's much cheaper and works almost as well from what I've heard. Nuerofeedback seems to be used for relaxation purposes mostly but I suppose inducing higher frequency brain waves could lead to increased concetration, focus, and increased higher level cognitive functions.

I can testify to that. Adrafinil works very well. I have been taking it for almost two years. I have checked my liver enzyme levels every three months, and every time I have a CMP (comprehensive metabolic panel) preformed my SGOT, SGPT, and alkaline phosphatase is in the normal range, and the levels really do not fluxtuate.

I highly advise checking the liver. If you have medical insurance the cost is marginal to free.

I take 2 300 mg adrafinils every morning, right when I wake up. It is important to take them on an empty stomach and not to eat for at least 20 minutes.

http://store.yahoo.c...gensym-196.html

The price is cheap enough as far as I'm concerned, I'm quite interested in obtaining some later on. I assume getting an 80x300mg supply will be sufficient for at least a month of constant use.

http://store.yahoo.c...gensym-196.html

The price is cheap enough as far as I'm concerned, I'm quite interested in obtaining some later on. I assume getting an 80x300mg supply will be sufficient for at least a month of constant use.

That place is a rip off!

A much better deal is available from qhi. I have been ordering from them for almost two years. They have excellent customer support as well as prices and they deliver within three weeks (usually within two or less). I must have recieved 30 or 40 orders from them.

I'm going to try and do more research with neurofeedback when I get the chane, but after stopping by sherwyns in chicago yesterday - stuff I was told to look at was Pyritinol and Bacopa....well, that plus Modanfil, but that requires a prescription.

Pyritinol has been one of the most effective drugs I've seen for ADD, Piracetam has been effective for some especially if they have other LD's, bacopa is suppose to be helpful and is worth a try. For some deprenyl works well too.



Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Aug;27(5):841-5.
Selegiline in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in children: a double blind and randomized trial.

Akhondzadeh S, Tavakolian R, Davari-Ashtiani R, Arabgol F, Amini H. Roozbeh Psychiatric Hospital, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, South Kargar Avenue, Tehran 13334, Iran. s.akhond@neda.net

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a common disorder of childhood that affects 3% to 6% of school-age children. Conventional stimulant medications are recognized by both specialists and parents as useful symptomatic treatment. Nevertheless, approximately 30% of ADHD children treated with them do not respond adequately or cannot tolerate the associated adverse effects. Such difficulties highlight the need for alternative safe and effective medications in the treatment of this disorder. Selegiline is a type B monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) that is metabolized to amphetamine and methamphetamine stimulant compounds that may be useful in the treatment of ADHD. The authors undertook this study to further evaluate, under double-blind and controlled conditions, the efficacy of selegiline for ADHD in children. A total of 28 children with ADHD as defined by DSM IV were randomized to selegiline or methylphenidate dosed on an age and weight-adjusted basis at selegiline 5 mg/day (under 5 years) and 10 mg/day (over 5 years) (Group 1) and methylphenidate 1 mg/kg/day (Group 2) for a 4-week double-blind clinical trial. The principal measure of the outcome was the Teacher and Parent ADHD Rating Scale. Patients were assessed by a child psychiatrist at baseline, 14 and 28 days after the medication started. No significant differences were observed between the two protocols on the Parent and Teacher Rating Scale scores. Although the number of dropouts in the methylphenidate group was higher than in the selegiline group, there was no significant difference between the two protocols in terms of the dropouts. Decreased appetite, difficulty falling asleep and headaches were observed more in the methylphenidate group. The results of this study must be considered preliminary, but they do suggest that selegiline may be beneficial in the treatment of ADHD. In addition, a tolerable side effect profile may be considered as one of the advantages of selegiline in the treatment of ADHD.

Source: Medline

http://store.yahoo.c...gensym-196.html

The price is cheap enough as far as I'm concerned, I'm quite interested in obtaining some later on. I assume getting an 80x300mg supply will be sufficient for at least a month of constant use.

That place is a rip off!

A much better deal is available from qhi. I have been ordering from them for almost two years. They have excellent customer support as well as prices and they deliver within three weeks (usually within two or less). I must have recieved 30 or 40 orders from them.

€ 20.65 vs. $29.00

I don't see much of a difference, also QHI ships from overseas while nubrain is in the US. I just find nubrain less of a hassle because they take Paypal and it's more convenient because I don't have to send a Indemnity & Disclaimer form like with QHI.

20.65 EUR Euro =

24.5653 USD United States Dollars

€ 20.65 vs. $29.00

That is about $5 dollars less per 40 caps. If you do get shipping for $8.00 then that might confer you an advantage if you are only ordering one pack, however, if you are order 2 packs, than you are paying $10 USD more, and three $15. So as you purchase more, it costs you more, and that advantage is gone. And I highly advise ordering multiple packages so you don't pay that much for shipping...

I advise you purchase at least 4 packs because you really do not feel the full effects of adrafinil until you have been taking it for about 3 weeks.

Also QHI sells FAS hydergine in packs of 60 4,5 mg at a very reasonable price (€ 25.18 = $29.9541 USD) Take a look at their other items. So what? You send them a disclaimer (or fax it) and you never do it again. It really depends on how many products you plan on purchasing from them. I ONLY want FAS hydergine it causes nasuea and other side effect otherwise, and if not FAS (facilitated absorption system) you lose a lot of the drug as well.

It's your money, not mine.

[thumb]

AND you are wrong about Nubrain shipping adrafinil from the US!

ORDER SHIPMENT/ARRIVAL DETAILS
Smart Drug items with an Asterisk* are AIR-mailed from Europe via PRIORITY MAIL to ALL worldwide addresses and should arrive within
7-14 days of shipping date. ALL other items are AIR-mailed from the US via PRIORITY MAIL to all US and worldwide locations as per the e-mail confirmation. Orders may arrive at different times in multiple parcels. Allow 21 days before inquiring about order status,

Adrafinil* see the Asterisk?

Yeah I've been looking at Hydergine... hmmm. I might send them a form just since they do seem to be cheaper on both items. Does hydergine really syngerize with Piracetam well? I guess I'll give QHI a shot in the summer.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

Does hydergine really syngerize with Piracetam well?

For many including myself, yes very well.