New to Nootropics

I'm going to be attending university this fall so I want to make sure my brain is functioning at full capacity. I’ve been curiously researching certain aspects about nootropics this past week, and have compiled a list of chemicals and substances that might work well together. I need some down to earth opinions on this stack. It’s pretty cheap, 300$ for 6 months supply, so it won’t hit my wallet that hard. This is what I came up with.

Aniracetam 2x 750mg
Idebenone 2x 50mg
Picamilon 2x 100mg
Pyritinol 2x 200mg
Vinpocetine 2x 10mg
L-theanine 2x 100mg
Acetyl L-Carnitine 2x 1500mg

Other things I’m already taking
Bromocriptine 1x 5mg
Creatine Monohydrate 2x 5g
Fish Oil 6x 1g (500mg epa\dha per cap)
3g l-tryosine \ 200mg caffeine pre workout
1200mg coral calcium PM \ 600mg AM
NOW foods multivitamin

Adrafinil (possibly) 600mg a day

Will the action of ephedrine HCL, which is a vasoconstrictor, interfere with the action of vinpocetine, which is a cerebral vasodialator? Or will the actions of the drugs not interfere with each other?

How does this stack look?

Oops, I forgot a choline source. I was thinking Alpha GPC, but was unsure about the dosage. What would a typical dosage look like?

Also, how about Phosphadityl Serine and centrophenoxine, would they be of any benefit?

I know some of these should be divided into 3 dosages, specifically ALCAR, but I just want to make everything in one powder so i can take it straight or cap it.

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I think the list looks pretty good, the only thing I would caution against is deciding on dosages (ie capping a whole bunch of stuff) before you have experimented.

I think that is a key to nootropic use, to experiment and find what works for you.

Start out with a few key substances for a couple of days-week. Establish a baseline dose. Then add one more molecule, check, etc.

You should start experimenting before you get to school, you can always add more later, you don't need to have the perfect stack right away.

You should probably add some Lipoic Acid in there.

GPC, 200-1200 mg

Again, you need to experiment.

I suggest that you ease into this and not just start taking everything at once. When I first started taking ALCAR, a 500mg dose made me very hotheaded and unstable. If I drove, I was a menace on the highway for about two hours. Now I can consume a gram at a time with no side effects.

If I had experienced this after starting a large number of supplements at once, even though there would be some likely suspects, I would not know whether the effect was from one substance or a combination of two or more substances.

I'm going to be attending university this fall so I want to make sure my brain is functioning at full capacity.  I’ve been curiously researching certain aspects about nootropics this past week, and have compiled a list of chemicals and substances that might work well together.  I need some down to earth opinions on this stack.  It’s pretty cheap, 300$ for 6 months supply, so it won’t hit my wallet that hard.  This is what I came up with.

Aniracetam 2x 750mg
Idebenone 2x 50mg
Picamilon 2x 100mg
Pyritinol 2x 200mg
Vinpocetine 2x 10mg
L-theanine 2x 100mg
Acetyl L-Carnitine 2x 1500mg

Other things I’m already taking
Bromocriptine 1x 5mg
Creatine Monohydrate 2x 5g
Fish Oil 6x 1g (500mg epa\dha per cap)
3g l-tryosine \ 200mg caffeine pre workout
1200mg coral calcium PM \ 600mg AM
NOW foods multivitamin

Adrafinil (possibly) 600mg a day

Will the action of ephedrine HCL, which is a vasoconstrictor, interfere with the action of vinpocetine, which is a cerebral vasodialator?  Or will the actions of the drugs not interfere with each other?

How does this stack look?

Looks pretty good to me; and powerful; however, it is missing several important elements. I don't have time at the moment to write a thoughtful response, but I will tomorrow afternoon. I have a midterm tomorrow morning. But also heed the advise of the others posting in this thread, they are WISE souls.

I refer you to this thread (Click here).

If you have the amount of cash you say you do and want to maximize your stack, I would first send you to Rizzer at smi2le.biz (click here). Show him this thread and ask him what price he could give you for the items on your list that he has (he DEFINATELY has most of what you need at BY FAR the best prices on the web). He is a really nice guy and is kind of superman in the world of nootropics...LOL...


Take care.

Edited by nootropi, 30 September 2004 - 12:11 PM.

I agree. There are many wise nootropics users on this board. adamp2p, cosmos, lifemirage, fieyaa, ejdavis come to mind immediately. Their advice is very helpful.

Peace be with you all,
AMDG

Zen Catholic

I already take Alcar \ L-Tryosine \ Choline Bitartrate pre workout. It's in a drink made by Black Star Labs called GO!, so that shouldn't really be a problem.

The products i'm choosing to get are mostly because of their availability at smi2le's site. I've seen surfing around there and intend to buy everything i can from him, he seems like a down to earth guy. It’s pleasing to see someone offering cheap products and watching everyone else follow him by slashing their prices. He took the initiative, and I think he deserves some business for it. I'll buy the bulk powders and either mix them and encapsulate them myself or just keep it in powdered form and consume it by some measuring utensil.

I also thought about easing my way into the stack, and that it might be too powerful in the beginning, but I’m relatively anxious and want to start right away. Maybe I should keep the ratio’s the same but drop the dosage down a bit to start out with?

Thanks for the opinions, and I would value seeing adamp2p’s more in-depth opinion about the stack.

-Also- I left out Centrophenoxine because of a thread on avant’s board that stated it would probably not be beneficial in healthy individuals.

What specifically would R-ala help with? Toxicity issues? Can I use regular Ala as it is cheap, or should I use Potassium R-ala?

I mentioned R-ALA specifically because of the Bruce Ames research with ALCAR/R-ALA. ALCAR, anything that increases neuronal firing/mitochondrial respiration, will generate more free radicals.

Would Choline Bitartrate be a suitable substitute for A-GPC?

Rizzer has choline bitartrate, but not alpha GPC and it's cheap as fuck. i was wondering if it would be OK to just use choline bitartrate as opposed to A-GPC?

But so many people seem to favor A-GPC.

In one of your posts you said either take Hydergine FAS @ 4.5mg a day or Adrafinil @ 600mg a day.  Which do you think would be more beneficial for concentration and studying?

Aniracetam -         2x  750mg
Idebenone -          2x   50mg
Picamilon -          2x  100mg
Pyritinol -          2x  200mg
Vinpocetine -        2x   10mg
L-theanine -         2x  100mg

Acetyl L-Carnitine - 3x 1000mg
R-Ala -              3x  200mg

Bromocriptine -      1x    5mg


How do you think i should cap these pills?  Everything separately?  I was thinking of combining the ALCAR with the R-ala because they're both 3x a day, and then the rest together.  Then i was thinking of just doing everything separately so if i don't respond to something well, i can drop it.

This is like 375$ for 6 months supply at smi2le's site.  I wanted to buy everything from there, so should i get choline bitartrate there or do would alpha gpc be a better choline source?

I'm also going to pick up some Piracetam to throw in my stack later on.

My bad about the barrage of questions.

Thanks bro

I don't believe that I ever said "adrafinil OR hydergine." I am pretty sure that I said both. Adrafinil is, as far as I am concerned, a good substitute (a LOT cheaper) for modafinil; however, as others may have mentioned, it is important to have your liver enzymes checked every few months to make sure your body can handle it. Also: if you are going to start adrafinil, you need to get enough to last you for a few months; because really the effect is not apparent until you have been taking it for a couple of weeks. It will make it possible for you to awaken early in the morning and not feel at all sleepy throughout the day; this was a problem for me until I started adrafinil.

Wow, 5 mg per day? That is a lot of bromcriptine. 1.25 mg a day is definately the most you could benefit as a student (unless, of course, you have Parkinson's disease); ESPECIALLY if you want to take other ergots...I take 4.5 mg of FAS hydergine, 5 mg nicergoline, and 1.25 mg bromocriptine per day; and I split the 1.25 mg bromocriptine tabs into two 0.75 doses (just because it is a bit overwhelming all at once).

How should you cap everything? I would recommend you to buy the My Weigh 120-Z digital mini scale. It is all you need for weighing out doses. It may not be accurate to the milligram; however, it is accurate to the tenth of a gram, and consider we are talking about nootropics here, you can, in general, be off by a few milligrams here and there without any detriment. I believe smi2le sells gelatin caps for pretty cheap these days; I think it is less than $20 for 2000 capsules. What I do is, in general, cap up a few mixtures that I use daily or cap up single nootropics in quantities of 50, so that can shave a bit of time off here and there. I used to cap everything dose per dose, but that really becomes time consuming. Last week I capped 50 caps of each the following:

450 mg aniracetam and 100 mg picamillon

250 aniracetam 100 mg l theanine 100 rhodiola rosea

700 mg oxiracetam

125 centrophenoxine 200 pyrinitol 50 mg idebenone

When I cap all of these, I do save a lot of time considering I take these exact doses twice a day.

With respect to RALA: I take 300 mg 3 times a day. I originally started out at 200 mg three times a day; but later raised the dose because my body, I guess, was able to "handle it."

The l-theanine I kind of use as a filler for everything; the stuff is totally harmless. I don't really think it has any nootropic value; however, it does have a relaxation effect, if that counts.

For concentration and studing the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of such an elaborate nootropic stack is that you stick to it -- what I mean is you need to stick to the doses you decide to ingest for a good while. What is a good while? I say at least a few months. The human brain functions optimally in a state of equilibrium; a state of balance. These nootropics that you will be adding to your life are harmless to your brain -- at sensible doses; in fact, they are beneficial.

Do not presume that your new regimen is going to deliver results overnight. It will take a few months for you to see the benefits; that is, if you get any benefits at all. If you are ingesting street drugs (ie cocaine, meth, weed, extacy, valium, etc) do not expect this regimen to help you perform better in school. Also you need take the same doses at THE SAME times of the day. Like don't take a whole days dose in the morning or evening. Stick to a plan. Ask others from this forum who have had positive results from the stack. There are many around here; and quite a few students and professionals from whom you can seek advise. They will tell you the same thing.

Also keep your mind busy; don't sit around and watch television. If you do not excercise your brain, these drugs are essentially a big waste of money. Challenge yourself intellectually. Or spritually. Thanks to a member of this forum, ejdavis1, I have had the opportunity to challenge myself spirtually with holosync, and I will forever be indebeted to him for this. When you develop a very powerful mind it is important to know how to harness its power by ceasing all thought.

I imagine that with the money you have you could buy quite a bit of nootropics from smi2le; enough for six months or a year, if you cap yourself. The expensive nootropics you need to order from overseas. Before smi2le came around, I really could not afford the stack I have, and I thank him for that. Like I said, he is kind of like a super hero of the nootropic world, like Peter Pan or something...LOL.
Keep us updated, and take care,

Adam [thumb]

Edited by nootropi, 06 September 2004 - 04:21 AM.

Adam: Thanks for the advice. You’ve been most certainly helpful.

I’m taking 5mg of bromocriptine for bodycomposition reasons as opposed to nootropic reasons. Lyle McDonald wrote a book on bromocriptine and its usefulness in bodyrecomposition and can find it at this website: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

In the previous post you said there were a few important elements missing from my stack; can you elaborate on that?

Also, can one take choline bitartrate as opposed to A-GPC or CDP choline?

In the previous post you said there were a few important elements missing from my stack; can you elaborate on that?
Also, can one take choline bitartrate as opposed to A-GPC or  CDP choline?

For cognitive enhancement? Or for, as you say, body recomposition? I will comment on the cognitive enhancement first. I think you are taking way too much bromocriptine. How old are you? I might suggest that you add "this and that", HOWEVER, due to the fact that you are already taking A LOT of bromocriptine, I fear if you do add certain elements to your regimen, this may detract from your current cogitive abilites; and possibly cause (permanent) damage to your brain. You see, at relatively low doses, nootropics, in general, are safe -- even in elaborate combinations. But once you add a chemical like bromcriptine at 5 mg per day, all bets are off. That is a dose commonly prescribed to individuals suffering from Parkinsons disease. I can understand that you want to improve the composition of your body; however, you should take a closer look at whether it is rational to have a drug be resposible for altering your body's composition rather than say, excercise. I would caution you to be careful -- because of the sheer strength of bromocriptine. Similarly, I do not expect a nootropic regimen to sporatically make me into a genious. Nootropics are supplements to a rigourous applied learning regimen. A nootropic regimen -- properly implemented -- should faciliate learning -- it does not do the learning -- for you. In other words, if you are seeking an "easy way out" with any drug, all you will reap are the negative effects. But this is a digression; now I am opinionating; or anecdoting. I am sorry, but I do not condone the use of such a high dose of bromocriptine in any nootropic regime. 2.5 mg is already too high. And you are ingesting (daily, I presume) DOUBLE that dose.

Please do not take offense to my comments. I am sincerely typing to you out of concern for your health -- I do hope you understand this.

Yes, the bitratrate is cheap, however inefficient. CDP chloline you can purchase for $15 USD for 60 250 mg capsules, which breaks down to about $7.50 per month -- not too bad.

Take care,

Adam

I understand your comments and your concern, but i believe that 5mg is reasonable yet effective and safe dose of bromocriptine. Bromocriptine is used to acromegaly, Parkinson’s, and hyperprolactinemia. The drug was introduced over 30 years ago, so if there were any real adverse side effects, they would be known by now. The common bromocriptine dosage in the treatment of Parkinsons is up to 40mg. For treatment of acromegaly, dosage of bromocriptine is in the range of 100mg per day or more. As you can see, these dosages are much greater than my 5mg dosage, but I might take into consideration dropping the dosage to 2.5mg morning only. You might consider taking bromocriptine in the morning also, as there are many benefits to this. (Read Lyle Mcdonalds e-book)

I am not seeking this supplement regime as the “easy way out” as you put it. I just believe that it might improve my ability to learn and retain information and further my studies while attending a university this fall. To a bodybuilder like myself, I know there are no miracle drugs. People may attribute professional bodybuilder physiques to steroidal use, but without hard work and many hours of dedication they simply would not have that physique. Everything takes time. This can be said for self improvement of the physique or the brain.

So CDP choline at 250mg a day would be sufficient for the stack I’m proposing? I know it will vary by individual, so I will have to fine tune it myself.

I understand your comments and your concern, but i believe that 5mg is reasonable yet effective and safe dose of bromocriptine. Bromocriptine is used to acromegaly, Parkinson’s, and hyperprolactinemia.  The drug was introduced over 30 years ago, so if there were any real adverse side effects, they would be known by now. The common bromocriptine dosage in the treatment of Parkinsons is up to 40mg.  For treatment of acromegaly, dosage of bromocriptine is in the range of 100mg per day or more.  As you can see, these dosages are much greater than my 5mg dosage, but I might take into consideration dropping the dosage to 2.5mg morning only.  You might consider taking bromocriptine in the morning also, as there are many benefits to this.  (Read Lyle Mcdonalds e-book)

I am not seeking this supplement regime as the “easy way out” as you put it.  I just believe that it might improve my ability to learn and retain information and further my studies while attending a university this fall.  To a bodybuilder like myself, I know there are no miracle drugs.  People may attribute professional bodybuilder physiques to steroidal use, but without hard work and many hours of dedication they simply would not have that physique.  Everything takes time.  This can be said for self improvement of the physique or the brain.

So CDP choline at 250mg a day would be sufficient for the stack I’m proposing?  I know it will vary by individual, so I will have to fine tune it myself.

How old are you?

Sure 250 CDP choline would be helpful. Add inositol daily.

See if you can get a prescription for Aricept 5mg. I just posted about it. It would be optimal also if you could get a prescription for Provigil/Alertec [modafinil] 200 mg am.

If you lower your dose of bromocriptine to 1.25 mg daily, I would suggest 4.5 mg Hydergine FAS and 5 mg nicergoline.

Also, how about Phosphadityl Serine and centrophenoxine, would they be of any benefit?

I know some of these should be divided into 3 dosages, specifically ALCAR, but I just want to make everything in one powder so i can take it straight or cap it.

PS and centro are welcome additions to any nootropic stack.

(I'm only 19. I'd like to get a prescription for Provigil, but i don't really know how.

I'm just going to order from Adrafinil from QHI. That, along with Hydgergine FAS, is making stuff pretty pricey. Like 750$ for 6 months supply, including scales and capping agents. I guess it's not *that* expensive.

Everything comes at a price.

I hope rizzer gets bulk adrafinil powder. It's not schedule here, so there really shouldn't be any problems.

Has anyone heard from him recently? I haven't seen him post on any boards, nor has he answered two emails i sent him. This kinda worries me as i'm about to order 350$ worth of products from him. Has anyone ordered anything from rizzer in the past few days?

Thanks.

roid-

Yeah, I got an e-mail from him yesterday about capsule machines:


>Hey Mike,
>
>Any idea when you might get your capsule machines in stock which are superior to Cap 'Em Quick machines (as mentioned on the products page of your website)?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Zen Catholic
>
>
>
>
I'm supposed to talk to the manufacturer again on the phone on Monday;
gotta get a good price; they might even say SMI2LE on the side of them;
which would be terribly cool for me....

He's still around. Probably just busy....

Peace be with you,
AMDG

Zen Catholic

roidjoe:

1. It appears QHI is out of business for now. You might want to try Biogenesis Laboratories . I have never dealt with them directly, but their prices are better than QHI on some items; they also have Hydergine and Deprenyl in better delivery systems (you can take smaller doses more accurately). In fact, I just placed an order (my first ever) from Biogenesis Labs. I will report my findings regarding their service.

Adrafinil - Olmifon
40 x 300 mg
$26.50 (update)



Hydergine Liquid
40ml
$ 9.10 USD



Deprenyl Liquid - Selepryl
12ml 300mg
$ 61.75



2. As far as Rizzer goes; I heard that he went out partying this weekend -- I was wondering where he was myself because he was not returning my emails either -- I thought he got busted in that lab bust; but he is back now (I think).

Take care.

Edited by adamp2p, 30 July 2004 - 12:09 AM.

That really sucks. QHI had the best prices, especially for Hydergine.

Adrafinil - Olmifon
40 x 300 mg
$ 21.40 USD

Where did you find that? On Biogenesis site it says their Adrafinil is $26.15, not $21.40, a bit more pricey.

So rizzer is operational? I can order a good amount of products from him tonight?

So rizzer is operational?  I can order a good amount of products from him tonight?

I guess. Call him; I just chatted on the phone a bit myself with him a minute ago.

That really sucks.  QHI had the best prices, especially for Hydergine.

Adrafinil - Olmifon
40 x 300 mg
$ 21.40 USD

Where did you find that?  On Biogenesis site it says their Adrafinil is $26.15, not $21.40, a bit more pricey.

They JUST raised the price TODAY!

Sneaky! LOL. Well I will tell you how fast they deliver, their customer service, etc.

Crooks! That's like 30$! Oh well...

Why has QHI currently ceased operations?

I'm wondering the same thing, this is unfortunate news.

Well; I have communicated with a member of the Biogenesis staff team a couple of times, and the one I have been communicating via email with is very kind. He told me that the order I placed should be recieved within two to three weeks, which I think is a bit long, honestly (especially considering QHI would get my orders to me within 14 REAL days -- ie not working days -- which means that I would usually recieve my order 5-8 working days after the day I actually placed my order)...but we will see when I recieve it in reality.

QHI also said that the order should be recieved within 15 "working days" of the day I placed the order, but I would always recieve it much earlier. I will keep you guys updated. Biogenesis labratories in South Africa actually has the best prices I can find on several items that I am interested in; so if they indeed deliver in the same time as QHI, I will be placing several orders through them in the future.



...as I said, I will keep you guys updated.

Edited by adamp2p, 29 July 2004 - 02:35 PM.

Biogenesis Laboratories isn't bad. I ordered my stuff Sunday, and it came today! Wow, that must be record time. Less than a week. That was fast as hell.

Adam, how’s your order coming along?

Thumbs up to biogenesis.

Biogenesis Laboratories isn't bad.  I ordered my stuff Sunday, and it came today!  Wow, that must be record time.  Less than a week.  That was fast as hell. 

Adam, how’s your order coming along?

Thumbs up to biogenesis.

Where do you live roidjoe? What part of the world? I live in California, USA. I am wondering because you got your order already and I placed mine on Sunday as well, yet I have not recieved mine!


What did you order?

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Adrafinil and Hydergine FAS. I live in USA, New York to be exact.

I was really surprised at the shipping time. When I ordered bromocriptine from IAAS it took a little under two weeks. This was less than a week.