R-ALA and ALCar

#1 Paul Idol

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 01:45 PM

That's pretty much the whole question — how much R-ALA is actually required in order to offset the oxidation boost caused by ALCar supplementation? I've seen figures like three-to-one and five-to-one mentioned, but nothing solid.

Thanks!

#2 vastman

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 07:34 AM

ben, don't know the answer to this but as you are obviously interested in this area have you seen AOR's website devoted to r-lipoic research?

http://www.r-lipoic.com/

was one of the first things that got me to revisit the field of life extension and it's full of interesting perspectives. They do discuss ALCAR on the site.

#3 Paul Idol

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 02:55 PM

Vast-

I have read that site, and I found it particularly frustrating that on the page which detailed taking R-ALA to overcome the extra oxidation from ALCar, no mention was made of amounts or ratios!

Thanks for the suggestion, though, and if there's a page I missed, please let me know.

#4 scottl

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 05:04 PM

Ben,

THere is an old post here where this issue was discussed.

I remember AORsupport and someone named nootropi discussing it in the context of a rat study using the two. Doses used in the rat study and then a discussion ensued about how to scale those doses to hman doses. I believe the amounrs of R-ala used were large but hopefully that is enough to give you some clues so you can find it with the search engine.

#5 tintinet

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 06:12 PM

The supplement backed by Ames (Juvenon) contains 500 mg ALCAR and 200 mg racemic ALA, FWIW.

#6 psychenaut

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 01:44 AM

Shoot for 2:1 to 4:1 ALCAR vs (stabilized) R-lipoic. For all intents and purposes, the only thing that should constrain your RLA intake is your budget.

Pete

#7 Paul Idol

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 02:30 AM

2:1 to 4:1? Good god! That all but completely rules out the gelcap form you sell purely on budgetary grounds. Wow. Do you have any documentation for that, or is it just a rule of thumb sort of thing?

#8 johnmk

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 06:55 AM

Actually I saw a study, I believe mentioned at Avantlab's forums, that brought me to the conclusion that low R-ALA intake is better than high. I don't recall the particulars however. Some R-ALA is good, but I believe any more than 0.5-1.0g/day, might be detrimental. Goodness gracious, somebody help me out here with a link, I cannot find it.

#9 scottl

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 01:34 PM

2:1 to 4:1? Good god! That all but completely rules out the gelcap form you sell purely on budgetary grounds. Wow. Do you have any documentation for that, or is it just a rule of thumb sort of thing?

I think 2:1 was the ratio. It was a rat study that started the whole ALCAR + R-ALA and was perhaps Bruce Ames so you could google him and look at his publications if you can't find it by searching here.

#10 ozone

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 05:21 AM

ALCAR = 1.2g to 4.3g per day
RALA = 616mg to 1.22g (in K-RALA form at 40% it's... 1.5g to 3g)

So about 2:1.

I recorded these numbers awhile back from this forum. Remember, that's just straight RALA. If you want KRALA, your ratio will be different. Finally, that's just plain ALCAR. If you take ALCAR-Arginate, your ratio will also be different since the Arginate version of ALCAR is only like 50% or something.

#11 scottl

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 04:14 AM

Here is the thread where it is all explained (interestingly it is also the thread where CLA is exposed).

http://www.imminst.o...t=0

#12 nootropictookam

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 08:50 AM

http://nootropics.ip...hp?showtopic=58

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