<Cordeiro> Hi everybody. Greetings from Venezuela
<BJKlein> latin lover.. welcome!
* BJKlein Official Chat Starts
<Jonesey> hi Jose, how is life with Chavez
<John_Ventureville> Howdy!
<BJKlein> May 30 - José Cordeiro - Developing World & Immortality
<BJKlein> From Caracas, Venezuela, economist, professor, futurist consultant, and author of eight books, both in English and Spanish, José Cordeiro joins ImmInst to discuss immortality and the developing world.
<BJKlein>
http://www.imminst.o...=ST&f=63&t=3557<Cordeiro> Life under Chavez is a disaster. We are trying now again to get him out, with elections, but he does not recognize them:-(
<BJKlein> sounds familiar
<Jonesey> Doesn't the majority support Chavez?
<Cordeiro> So, how many are we here now?
<Jonesey> can you see the list of people on the side?
<BJKlein> there's around 6 or so who's ready to chat...
<BJKlein> and more will come in soon
<Jonesey> the list of names?
<Cordeiro> Jonesey, Chavez is supported by maybe 25% at most. 60% desperately want him out, including myself.
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<Jonesey> interesting...how much of an immortalist movement is there in venezuela?
<BJKlein> welcome back Natasha, Jose is here now.. we're talking about Chavez and political problems... and election problems
<Cordeiro> For those of you who want to know more about the political situation in Venezuela, see: www.Vcrisis.com
<BJKlein> something which I suggested was a familiar problem with a lot of organizations
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<Natasha> test
<BJKlein> there ya go
<BJKlein> type and enter
<Natasha> enter
<BJKlein> heh
<Natasha> heheh
<Cordeiro> Jonesey, how big of a movement here?
<Jonesey> Yes...by the way Jose, I'm from Dominica, not so far from Venezuela
<Cordeiro> We, at least we are more than two. Santiago Ochoa who was previously interviewed by BJK and me:-)
<Cordeiro> Recently we learned that the president of the ACS (AMerican Cryonics Society) has just bought a house in a Venezuelan island...
<EdgarS> I guess I would be another. I'm in California now, but I have a 2nd home in Venezuela.
<EdgarS> Yes, that's me.
<Cordeiro> Hi, Edgar, I was just talking about you:-)
<Jonesey> I'm in NYC myself
<EdgarS> It's not an island, but it is on the beach near Rio Chico, east of Caracas.
<BJKlein> Immortalism, as with many other nescient futurist movements are growing exponentially.. keeping this growth consistant is the key
<Cordeiro> And besides Edagr, another prominent cryonicist (john) also has a house in Venezuela.
<EdgarS> Which John is this?
<John_Ventureville> Edgar! Hello
<Cordeiro> Your friend John, Edgar.
<John_Ventureville> John in Arizona
<Cordeiro> You see, this is a small world.
<EdgarS> OK. I recognize Ventureville and Arizona, but John ???
<BJKlein> here's Edgar Swank's intro post:
http://www.imminst.o...&f=75&t=3596&s=<John_Ventureville> John Grigg
<John_Ventureville> : )
<EdgarS> OK, thanks's John.
<EdgarS> Where is your place in Venezuela?
<BJKlein> here's a pic and interview with John G on Venturism
http://imminst.org/f...st=0#entry19247<John_Ventureville> *too many John's in this world, darn confusing!*
<Cordeiro> I live in Caracas, like my friend Santiago Ochoa and most people interested so far in our issues.
<Cordeiro> Caracas has almost 5 million people, out of a total country population of 25.
<EdgarS> I meant where is John's place in VE?
<BJKlein> ImmInst interview with Sangiato Ochoa -
http://www.imminst.o...&f=67&t=1115&s=<Cordeiro> Yes, read that excellent interview with Santiago Ochoa in ImmInst.
<BJKlein> sorry, *Santiago
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<BJKlein> yes, Santiago Ochoa is a beautiful person
<Cordeiro> Santiago means Saint James in Spanish:-)
<Natasha> Jose, what are your current projects?
<Cordeiro> I would like to talk about population issues and immortality.
<BJKlein> Cordeiro, that'd be great
<Cordeiro> Natasha, I am currently working on how to get Hugo Chavez out, and plans for Venezuela after that:-)
<BJKlein> are you worried about overpopulation?
<Natasha> Can you tell us your 5 topic issues concerning population, if indeed
<Natasha> over population is an issue today.
<Cordeiro> Many peoplpe seem to be worried about growing population.
<Cordeiro> Indeed, underpopulation might be the real worry very soon.
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<Natasha> Yes. Do you have the stats on what ares of the globe have
<EdgarS> OK, who wants to volunteer to die to make room for future generations?
<BJKlein> welcome Peter Passaro
<Natasha> high population and what areas have a lowering pop?
<Ocsrazor> Hi all
<Cordeiro> Some countries like Japan, and even Catholic countries like Italy and Spain are suffering decreasing populations right now.
<Natasha> Yes. Do you think it is "suffering" or self directed?
<BJKlein> I agree... Cordeiro, the more people we have the more problems we can solve
<Cordeiro> Natasha, it is personal choices, self directed, if you wish.
<EdgarS> But aren't their populations increasing through immigration?
<John_Ventureville> I find it ironic that the populations of developed nations are generally suffering from the "birth dearth" while the third world has the spare population to help infuse their economies
<Natasha> If an immigrant goes into one town, she leave another town behind :-)
<Cordeiro> For the first time in human history, we are close to population stabilization.
<Natasha> Yes, this stabilization says a lot for social awareness.
<Cordeiro> Most studies talk about stablizing at around 9-11 billion people in one centurty.
<Jonesey> europe is the most crowded continent, natasha, africa least crowded, in population density relative to arable land and growing season
<EdgarS> If people can be immortal, fewer will need the poor substitute of children.
<John_Ventureville> this mass immigration which both sides need is really going to change the demographics and cultures of the first world
<Natasha> I've never considered children a poor substitute for anything.
<Jonesey> heheh got kids natasha?
<EdgarS> They are a poor substitute for immortality.
<John_Ventureville> I think immortals will still want children and treasure as much or even more than parents do now
<Jonesey> edgarS:mine seem bent on putting gray hair on my head
<John_Ventureville> Edgar, why do you have to choose one over the other?
<Natasha> Death in pregnancy, I'm afraid and infertility after that was not successful
<EdgarS> Maybe, but they will want fewer.
<Cordeiro> POPULATION DENSITY: if the whole world had the same population density as Manhattan, all the people on Earth would fit on NY Sate.
<Jonesey> natasha:aw, unlucky
<Natasha> I create ideas now :-)
<Cordeiro> K selection and r selection. Are people familiar with this?
<Natasha> Pls explain
<Jonesey> philippe rushton's racial theory?
<John_Ventureville> one reason I treasure cryonics and immortalism is because it gives strong hope to those who right now cannot have children of their own
<Ocsrazor> yes Jose, I'm glad someone else is thinking along these same lines
<Ocsrazor> with wealthy nations being the K strategy?
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<Cordeiro> Humans are K selection: less children but well nurtured children. Every time less and less children, the more our offspring survive.
<John_Ventureville> quantity vrs. quality parenting
<Jonesey> well rushton argues actually that "orientals" are genetically the most K, but they are not very wealthy as a whole.
<Cordeiro> In an immortal world, we will be our own children. No need for more children.
<EdgarS> There you go
<Jonesey> not on average much wealthier than africans, who he argues are the most r
<Natasha> In order to maximize fitness in a predictable environment, it pays to invest
<Ocsrazor> you see the same strategies played out in human culture as well...
<BJKlein> Cordeiro, if I may ask.. what got you into immortalism in the first place?
<Natasha> resources in long-term development and long life (K selection);
<Natasha> in a risky environment, it is better to produce as much offspring
<Natasha> offspring as quickly as possible (r selection).
<Cordeiro> Read an essay by Santiago Ochoa and religion, science and immortality:
http://www.transhuma...rg/immortality/<John_Ventureville> I just read "Race, Evolution and Behavior." Reading material which is almost as explosive as the "Bell Curve" was.
<Jonesey> both books were financed by billionaire richard mellon scaife
<Jonesey> same guy who bankrolled the paula jones/whitewater onslaught on Bill Clinton
<John_Ventureville> I had a visitor here recommend it to me and loan me his copy
<Ocsrazor> There is biologically no such thing as 'race' John
<Cordeiro> Bruce, would it not be beautiful to know more, to learn more, to love more, to travel more... ad infinitum...
<Ocsrazor> that is the fundamental flaw behind that type of thinking
<BJKlein> hmm.. yup
<Jonesey> John_Ventureville:I found it explosively funny
<Natasha> Jose, you got my number on life - automorph!
<BJKlein> but, was there a moment or was it a progression?
<Cordeiro> Another fundamental idea, besides low population densities around the world, is thatthere are many other worlds around:-)
<Jonesey> e.g. see above where the alleged most r and most K groups are similarly situated economically for the most part.
<John_Ventureville> Ocs, true, "racial subtype" might be a better term than simply "race"
<Cordeiro> Bruce, like Natasha would say, it was automorph, slowly, gradually...
<Ocsrazor> I wouldn't even go that far John
<Cordeiro> Malthus was very wrong
<Jonesey> also rushton, much like the bell curve, did not address the great genetic diversity among africans but lumped them into one "race", where if you just went by DNA variation, there are at least as many "races" among africans as the rest of the planet combined.
<Ocsrazor> exactly Jonesey
<Cordeiro> Imagine that Malthus was worried when there were less than 9 million people all over England in 1798 (Today London has more than that)
<Ocsrazor> there is too much variation even in local populations to define 'races'
<Natasha> John, I like "subtype," not sure about racial though
<EdgarS> Improving technology supports greater population.
<Jonesey> Yep cordeiro the carrying capacity of the planet is a lot greater than malthus could have dreamt
<Cordeiro> Edgar, and not just technology, but also eating habits.
<EdgarS> Well, if we give up eating, then we can have more people. (:}
<Cordeiro> If people become vegetarian, we could support 4 or 5 times as many people as today, without many other changes.
<EdgarS> Well, this person is not about to do that!!
<Natasha> We need a better source of protein
<Ocsrazor> We actually have no scarce resource problem whatsoever, there are only management problems
<Cordeiro> Another fascinating poiny about popularion is that people is the only resource that has become more scarce.
<Natasha> veggies cannot help builds strong bodies
<Natasha> Good point Jose.
<EdgarS> I suppose everyone is familiar with Julian Simon, "Ultimate Resource?"
<Ocsrazor> yes Edgar
<Cordeiro> Economically speaking, the only resource whose "price" has continuously gone up is people.
<BJKlein> Jose, following your population topic, do you think there's a systematic focus to limit population growth?
<BJKlein> from any organization or gropu?
<Cordeiro> Yes, Edgar. Julian Simon was right on the spot. Read more about him in the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Julian_Simon<Natasha> "Our energy supply is non-finite, and oil is an important example . . .
<Natasha> the number of oil wells that will eventually produce oil, and in what quantities,
<Natasha> is not known or measurable at present and probably
<Cordeiro> Bruce, I believe that people should take those personbal decisions themselves. People are smart, and can decide on their own, particularly about their offspring.
<Natasha> never will be, and hence is not meaningfully finite." J. Simon
<John_Ventureville> when do we ulimately run out of all the known oil reserves..., 2030?
<EdgarS> That the key, "known."
<John_Ventureville> I suppose with new technologies we could push that back by perhaps many decades
<BJKlein> for me, I see having children as a hinderance to focusing on the work of saving lives now.. but that's just me of course.. i love kids otherwise
<John_Ventureville> *if the oil companies have their way*
<Natasha> Oil is so 20th Century.
<EdgarS> Not me! One of the benefits of an immortalist society will be a lot fewer children!
<John_Ventureville> "Daddy, stop working on the computer and play with me!!!"
<John_Ventureville> *could happen*
<Cordeiro> Natasha, I am a petroleum engineer, and I am very worried about space solar power. Jusy 1% of the solar energy reaching our planet can power all of our civilization. We just don't know how to harvet it yet.
<Jonesey> You're right on a personal level BJK. I can certainly attest that children are very absorbing.
<Natasha> Yes. The BIG problem of higher consciousness energy!
<John_Ventureville> Jonesey, but are they worth it??
<John_Ventureville> : )
<Jonesey> J_V:Let's talk in 20 more years, oldest one is just reaching adulthood
<Natasha> Children are worth their weight in gold many times over.
<John_Ventureville> lol!
<John_Ventureville> ok
<Jonesey> I have to evaluate the return on capital
<John_Ventureville> Oh, boy!
<EdgarS> About zero!
<Jonesey> compared to an equal weight of gold of course
<Natasha> When you need someone to feed you and change your
<John_Ventureville> *try to think about the emotional capital they provide you*
<John_Ventureville> right
<Cordeiro> Do you know about the bet between Julian Simon and Paul Ehrlich?
<Natasha> diapers, you might be thankful you had children! :-)
<EdgarS> Don't count on your children for anything!!
<Cordeiro> Read about it in Wired:
http://www.wired.com...ffsimon_pr.html<Jonesey> natasha maybe, but right now having my 16 yr old son bench press more than me isn't that exciting
<Ocsrazor> yes, that was brilliant of Simon, eh jose
<Cordeiro> Ocsrazor, it was a pity that Julian Simon died so young, and was not cryonically suspended:-(
<BJKlein> Jose, do you fear the creation of smarter-than-human technologies?
<Natasha> Bet: price of metals would move in the 1980s
<Ocsrazor> I believe he was aware of the technology Jose, unfortunate yes
<Cordeiro> Bruce, I do not fear the creation of smarter-than-human technologies. I treasure them.
<EdgarS> Me too! We just have to design in obedience!
<BJKlein> what if such tech doesn't like biobag humans?
<Cordeiro> As my MIT professor would say, they will inherit the Earth, but they will be us:-)
<Ocsrazor> Edgar, absolutley not!
<Cordeiro> That was Marvin Minsky speaking at MIT.
<BJKlein> Marvin Minsky
<Ocsrazor> obedience would be disaster for smarter than human intelligence
<EdgarS> Explain!
<Jonesey> computers are "smarter" than humans in some domains already
<Anissimov> An AI whose supergoal is to increase its reward counter would be a very fatal form of smarter-than-human intelligence
<Ocsrazor> that would subject it to our character flaws
<Natasha> I don't have any character flaws!
<BJKlein> base AI on Natasha!
<Natasha> (that was a flaw)\
<BJKlein> heh
<Jonesey> marvin minsky is quite an optimist. in human history militarily stronger groups have generally abused the others that they have encountered.
<EdgarS> I treasure mine! I don't want any machine monkeying with them!
<Ocsrazor> Michael, me and Eli had a long discussion on this previously, I dont buy the argument that
<Cordeiro> Anissimov, incorporate your AI into people.
<Anissimov> What if autonomous AI is easier, and people build it first?
<Anissimov> Bye bye Earth
<BJKlein> you can't force AI to incorporate if it doesn't want..
<Anissimov> Unless people get the goal system architecture correct
<BJKlein> by it's nature it's smarter than us..
<Ocsrazor> smarter than human AI could be built with a counter reward system
<Natasha> Jose, what are your views on sustainability?
<BJKlein> all depends on if we get it right the first time
<Cordeiro> Maybe people in India or China are developing the next wave of AI and we don't even know it.
<Natasha> I would be that to be true Jose
<BJKlein> or if we can upgrade ourselves in tandem in time
<John_Ventureville> and those people in India or China may not incorporate "friendly AI" programming into their seedAI
<Natasha> I mean bet, but I will not follow Simon's lead and invest in it rightnow
<Cordeiro> Natasha, I actuallt believe that things are improving, and human beings have the intelligence to survive and create sustainable environments.
<Jonesey> india and china have enormous struggles with very basic things, plumbing, electricity, medicine
<Natasha> Yes, Jose I do as well. In your writing, what specific topics do you
<EdgarS> "Sustainable" isn't good enough! I want ever expanding!
<Natasha> focus on in this regard?
<Jonesey> india is more likely than china to shift resources to stuff like that, china has a more egalitarian gov't
<Cordeiro> In sustainability I recommend the bookk by Bjorn Lomborg:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Bjorn_Lomborg<Natasha> Lomborg is a fine thinker.
<Ocsrazor> Jose, the term sustainable evironments bothers me some, because it usually suggests static economies and cultures, any thoughts there?
<Cordeiro> The Skeptical Environmentalist:
<Natasha> I don't think so if we think more broadly, Osc.
<Cordeiro>
http://en.wikipedia....nvironmentalist*Ocsrazor* hi BJ
<John_Ventureville> Natasha, what is the extropian term I am trying to think of, is it "boundless growth, dynamic growth?"
<Natasha> Sustainability is not in conflict with progress or growth.
<John_Ventureville> one of the key extropian principles?
<Natasha> Spontaneous order?
<John_Ventureville> no
<Natasha> Oh, you mean Extropy! :-)
<John_Ventureville> yes
<Jonesey> i think of sustainability more in terms of security.
<Natasha> Woopee!
<EdgarS> "Boundless expansion?"
<Cordeiro> Ocsrazor, you are probably right. Human minds have the capacity to expand and create, not just sustain....
<John_Ventureville> yes
<Natasha> Yes, Jonesey, spot on.
<Jonesey> exaggerated inequality tends to breed resentment and danger
<Jonesey> people get jealous and want your stuff.
<Jonesey> after a certain point it's not worth it because you spend so mcuh time and energy fighting off the poor
<Natasha> Again, sustainability is not the opposite of progess and growth.
<John_Ventureville> sustainability gives us a stable foundation/launching platform to move forward and create our singularity/ideal transhumanist world
<Natasha> This is an important point becasue sustainability is a hot term
<Cordeiro> Read also by Julian Simon: It's Getting Better All the Time : 100 Greatest Trends of the Last 100 Years
<Natasha> and gives people a sense of self-worth and purpose.
<Natasha> Yes John, right.
<John_Ventureville> it would be hard to get what we want in a world totally coming apart at the seams
<Natasha> Our transhumanist culture might better focus more on the ideals of
<Natasha> sustainability while pushing progress.
<Cordeiro> "A mind is a precious thing to waste": Any mind.
<Natasha> In fact, I think I'll take a focused look at this.
<Natasha> haha
<Natasha> My cat's brain is working overtime right now - he wants food!
<Natasha> I need to go to the gym:
<John_Ventureville> cats tend to be very focused that way
<BJKlein> official chat ends in 10min.. please stay longer if you wish.. by the way, after Jose's chat, I'd like to chat a little about why I'm stepping down from the WTA board
<Natasha> Sustainability for my body and progress and growth for my
<Natasha> brain and muscle.
<Natasha> Oh My! Please do not step down from WTA!
<Jonesey> natasha at least you don't have kids to show you up at the gym
<BJKlein> heh.. well..
<BJKlein> there will be better people in my place
<Natasha> Jose, it was a pleaseure as always and you are one of my heros!
<Natasha> You give so much to our community without bravado! This is
<John_Ventureville> her kids would be very hard pressed to outdo her in the gym!!
<Cordeiro> Natasha, thanks to you. A real pleasure to work with you:-)
<Natasha> your most enjoyable attribute (beside your marvelous brain.)
<Jonesey> heheh j_v those famous last words, i used to think that too
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Natasha> You too! By to everyone! love to you all. N
<John_Ventureville> Honor having you here, Jose
<BJKlein> seya Natasha
<Jonesey> nite nite natasha
<Cordeiro> So, who wants to visit Venezuela?
<John_Ventureville> bye Natasha
<EdgarS> John Grigg, you didn't say where you live in Venezuela.
<Cordeiro> I am planning to have TransVision05 in Caracas:-)
<John_Ventureville> Edgar, you misunderstood me
<John_Ventureville> *sorry*
<John_Ventureville> I live in Arizona
<John_Ventureville> too many people named John in this world
<EdgarS> Yes, but I though you also had a place in Ve. Misunderstanding?
<Cordeiro> Edgar, but you did say that your friend John also had a house in Venezuela.
<John_Ventureville> no
<EdgarS> That might be my friend Chris.
<Jonesey> john grigg
<Jonesey> wups
<Cordeiro> You are right, Edgar, I apologize, it was Chris.
<Jonesey> I'm scared to visit venezuela, sounds like a battle zone
<EdgarS> OK, glad that's cleared up. chris is not (yet) an immortalist, but he's interested.
<BJKlein> so EdgarS, and Chris and Jose have a place in Ven... John Grigg = AZ
<EdgarS> No, not at all!
<Cordeiro> Anyway, Venezuela is heavily underpopulated. The country is twice the area of California, but we just have 25 million people.
<John_Ventureville> lol
<EdgarS> It's very peaceful out where I am.
<Jonesey> EdgarS nice
<John_Ventureville> the cities are the bad spots?
<EdgarS> Actually, I am freeer in Venezuela than here in the USA, especially after 9/11.
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<BJKlein> welcome Guestius
<EdgarS> This is because the government is much weaker and everybody pretty much does as they please.
<Guestius> greetings all
<Cordeiro> Jonesey, Venezuela is safe. You must be thinking about New York:-)
<Jonesey> EdgarS interesting view
<Jonesey> Jose i see venezuelans in business meetings here and they have bruises etc, one guy had his arm in a sling
<EdgarS> For example, my friend Chris (and I also) have never gotten a speeding ticket!
<Cordeiro> Seriously, Venezuela is a very safe and friendly country. We do have political problems, but that involves only Venezuelans.
<Jonesey> I was like what the heck
<EdgarS> Only Venezuelans who want to overthrow the government.
<Jonesey> it's like they were just in a street fight
<EdgarS> Actually, Sr. Chavez has been very very good to me!
<Guestius> anyone or everyone familiar with the new country of immortia/
<Jonesey> hehe EdgarS
<Cordeiro> Jonesey, please, don't exagerate. You might see that in downtown NYC or DC. Not here:-)
<Guestius> ?
<Jonesey> Jose I'm not kidding. I met with venezuelans here a couple of times, who were physically bruised from fighting on the st.
<Cordeiro> Immortia? That sounds interesting?
<EdgarS> Well, you don't want to get in the middle of a "Demonstration" in Caracas.
<Jonesey> and this is over a long long time now, 4 plus years.
<Guestius>
http://www.angelfire...768/indexe.html<John_Ventureville> are Venezualans "honor bound" to strike another man who has even in a slight way offended them?
<Cordeiro> Jonesey, you can have problems anywhere, but if you look at statistics, again, NYC and DC are more dangerous than Caracas.
<Jonesey> NYC is not nearly as dangerous as DC nowadays. Crime in NYC is at about the 1950 level actually.
<EdgarS> This is not saying much! NYC and DC are pretty dangerous!
<Cordeiro> John, obviously no. Not even in Mexcian movies!
<John_Ventureville> ok
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Jonesey> Not so EdgarS, every single city in Texas with a population over 100k has a higher murder rate than NYC now.
<John_Ventureville> dang
<Jonesey> ever since nasdaq surged in the .com boom NYC had a big crime drop
<Cordeiro> Jonesey, you are right, Texas is also pretty dangeroues. How about Dominica?
<Jonesey> heh dominica is very small and safe.
<Jonesey> population is around 60k and dropping.
<Jonesey> labor force crisis actually
<John_Ventureville> Jonesy, when you say "Dominica" do you mean the Dominican Republic?
<Cordeiro> Glad to hear that about Dominica. How many immortalists there?
<Jonesey> No, I mean Dominica
<John_Ventureville> ok
<Guestius> nica nica
<John_Ventureville> I obviously don't know my geography as I should
<Jonesey> Many of my friends are mildly interested but not enough to do anything about it yet.
<Jonesey> John_Ventureville:you're american, all is forgiven
<Ocsrazor> Jose, did you talk about the possible influence of transhumanism on the developing world? missed the first few min
<John_Ventureville> thank you!
<John_Ventureville> *whew*
<Cordeiro> How about increasing the population of Dominica? Not too many people there:-(
<Jonesey> I remember George Bush not being able to name the leader of Pakistan in 2000, and saying it was not important because Pakistan was a remote country bordering Afghanistan
<Jonesey> yep the government got some refugees to come from Hong Kong after china took over, pretty well off people. a few thousand
* BJKlein Official Chat Ends
<Kid-A> shit i missed it
<Jonesey> but the birth rate keeps declining as girls get more education
<Cordeiro> Ocsrazor, I feel that transhumanism will be a fantastic opportunity for the developing world to leapfrog in many areas.
<BJKlein> log will be posted Kid-A, sorry
<Ocsrazor> Jose, I'm very concerned about power differentials caused by rapidly advancing technological progress
<Ocsrazor> especially for the technology I am developing
<Jonesey> Ocsrazor we have those already?
<Ocsrazor> trying to figure out ways to spread it as fast as possible
<Cordeiro> Ocsrazor, I am concerned too. Which technology are you working with?
<Kid-A> hehe oh well
<Ocsrazor> won't be too far off Jonesey
<Ocsrazor> neural implants
<EdgarS> I want to be the first on my block to get mine!
<Ocsrazor> Jonesey, I'm keeping a 20 year biz plan now ;D
<Cordeiro> Great, neural implants will be a God sent (oops, sorry, I am not religious:-)
<BJKlein> heh
<Jonesey> Jose how about Allah
<EdgarS> Just a figure of speech.
<Ocsrazor> you can google me Jose
<EdgarS> Same difference.
<John_Ventureville> Speaking of religion... I know a mormon woman who went to the Dominican Republic for two years and at the start of her tour of duty she weighed over 200 lbs. but a parasite she picked up there did "diet plan" like wonders and she returned home weighing about 125! I was shocked and she felt very awkward going from an ignored overweight ugly duckling to a very attractive woman.
<Ocsrazor> <-Peter Passaro
<Cordeiro> Is Allah religious? Ask him about submission!
<John_Ventureville> *strange story*
<EdgarS> They should export that parasite!!
<John_Ventureville> a tempting thought! but it did make her sick as a dog for several months
<Cordeiro> Well, it has been my pleasure chatting with you.
<BJKlein> Let me just say, on stepping down from WTA, that this doesn't mean ImmInst and WTA can't work together.. it just means that I'm feel unsafe working so closely with them.. and will use caution when doing so in the future
<EdgarS> Our pleasure.
<Cordeiro> Don't forget to read my essay:
http://www.transhuma...rg/immortality/<John_Ventureville> I will
<John_Ventureville> thank you
<John_Ventureville> Bruce, was a certain "H.N." involved in your decision?
<John_Ventureville> ?
<BJKlein> Havey and I have both decided to step down..
<John_Ventureville> wow
<EdgarS> Excuse my ignorance. What is "WTA"?
<BJKlein> Jose has a bit more tenacity.. which i respect
<John_Ventureville> were you on the same side of things?
<BJKlein> World Transhumanist Assoc.
<BJKlein> All three of us were working for rationality
<John_Ventureville> did this all center around Dr. Jay?
<BJKlein> The person who replaces me will likely be Michael Anissimov.. a fellow ImmInst director..
<Cordeiro> Bruce, Harvey and I have been working towards a better WTA. I respect them and I want them tostay, they can do more from inside than from the outside.
<BJKlein> so Jose you should feel you have a friend there
<EdgarS> WTA is distinct from Extropians? Do they have a website?
<BJKlein> www.transhumanist.org
<BJKlein> sorry... www.transhumanism.org
<Ocsrazor> yes edgar definitely distinct
<John_Ventureville> the WTA is one of the most "finished" of the transhumanist orgs
<Cordeiro> Well, I must go now. But I am happy to participate in this and other future chats with ImmInst.
<BJKlein> heh.. how do define 'finished'?
<Jonesey> they're going to get sued by the tennis org if they get any success anyway
<BJKlein> thank you Jose.. feel free to return
<Ocsrazor> Goodnight Jose
<EdgarS> Adios, Jose.
<John_Ventureville> *refined*
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Jonesey> remember the world wildlife fund took WWF away from the wrestling org once they got big internationally
<John_Ventureville> Jose, please come again
<Cordeiro> Buenas noches!
