18:05:24 Juanjo Hello ?
18:05:28 Randolfe Good evening. I'm really excited to have John Grigg here tonight. Was just reading his review of "Zardoz" in Physical Immortality.
18:06:08 Juanjo Regards from Spain !!!
18:06:35 ddhewitt ddhewitt (~ddhewitt@[death to spam].c-24-2-135-104.client.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Ping timeout]
18:07:22 Juanjo I'm interested specially in cryonics
18:08:18 Juanjo Can I respect any procedure or special law in this chat ?
18:08:31 Randolfe I loved Spain. But it just so happened that I arrived in Madrid one Christmas time when it was snowing. I would think cryonics would be very difficult in Spain because of catholicism. In Germany (and maybe France) they pass these laws that you have "to be buried" within a few days time.
18:09:09 Juanjo Yes it´s really. Sapnish traditional country yet
18:09:14 Juanjo Spain
18:09:22 Randolfe No "laws" or restrictions in this chat, so far as I know.
18:09:36 Juanjo We have a cryonic society named SEC Sociedad Española de Criogenización
18:09:43 Juanjo OK
18:10:08 Juanjo Web for SEC is www.criogenizacion.org
18:10:16 Randolfe Have you gotten the "frozen corpsesickle" treatment from the mass media? Has anyone been frozen yet?
18:11:37 Guest Guest (~Guest@[death to spam].4.Red-80-33-178.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #immortal
18:11:42 Juanjo Please You ask me if I have a contract for be cryonized or If I have cryonics information ?
18:13:04 Juanjo I don´t konw -> "frozen corpesesicle" tretment
18:13:50 John_Ventureville John_Ventureville (~John_Vent@[death to spam].24-117-201-237.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #immortal
18:13:52 Juanjo I' m considering suscribe a cryonic live assegurance, probably Cryonic Institute
18:15:00 John_Ventureville I apologize for being late, I got caught up with a guest who needed my help
18:15:15 Juanjo Ok no problem ;-)
18:15:31 John_Ventureville who is the moderator tonight?
18:15:58 Juanjo I don´tt know I think Jhon Grigg, is my first chat here
18:16:20 John_Ventureville that would mean that I am both tonight's guest and the moderator
18:16:24 John_Ventureville lol
18:16:25 John_Ventureville ok
18:16:46 Randolfe I don't see BJ Klein or John Grigg signed in yet. Maybe they aren't on Eastern Standard Time.
18:17:02 John_Ventureville John is right here!
18:17:06 John_Ventureville : )
18:17:21 Juanjo Please
18:17:26 John_Ventureville *Mr. G is in the house*
18:17:37 Juanjo A question ;-)
18:17:43 John_Ventureville certainly...
18:17:45 Randolfe So John Ventureville is John Grigg?
18:17:47 Juanjo Perdon for my limited english
18:17:51 John_Ventureville Randolfe, yes
18:18:01 Juanjo Jhon Ventureville is = Jhon Grigg ?
18:18:14 Juanjo Ok ok
18:18:16 John_Ventureville correct
18:18:39 John_Ventureville Venturist Advisor and Secretary
18:18:41 Randolfe Gosh, that is pleasantly surprising. On the other hand, the group of familiar Immortalist names seems to be shrinking.
18:18:57 John_Ventureville shrinking?
18:19:22 Randolfe Yes, I knew both names. Now they are just one person instead of two. I always enjoy your posts.
18:19:28 John_Ventureville thank you
18:19:51 John_Ventureville you know my "alter ego" now
18:20:01 Juanjo ;-)
18:20:08 John_Ventureville lol
18:20:34 Juanjo We are three active chat users, the other people appears not speak ?
18:20:59 John_Ventureville they are probably away from their computers and simply recording the chat
18:21:01 Randolfe In Zardoz, I notice Immortalists (I like to ca-pitalize taht name) give up reproductive rights for immortality. The Raelians demand the same of those cloned. Is that something we have to consider when discussing immortality?
18:21:18 John_Ventureville not really
18:21:54 John_Ventureville the reason being that we believe in "dynamic expansion" as compared to a sort of statist human community which would be totally bound to the earth
18:21:56 Randolfe Juanjo, you make a very good observation. I always wonder why just a few here tend to dominat43e the conversation.
18:22:18 John_Ventureville remember though, this is a slow chat
18:22:24 John_Ventureville some of them are packed with people
18:22:42 Juanjo OK
18:22:44 John_Ventureville and it's hard to get a word in edgewise
18:23:03 John_Ventureville Zardoz is one of my favorite films
18:23:14 Randolfe That is a shame. I think it shows that many Immortalists are more oriented to AI, nonotechnology, etc. rather than cryonics, etc.
18:23:25 Juanjo Is a good film Sean Connery important
18:23:44 Juanjo The law of equality je je je
18:23:55 Randolfe What did you think of "Gattica"?
18:24:19 John_Ventureville what I find very ironic about the film is that is it does positively show man developing into "superman" but at the same time rips into the whole notion of physical immortality
18:24:44 John_Ventureville Zardoz makes the common mistake of equating immortality with social and technological stagnation
18:24:51 Randolfe Oh, so you like James Hughes idea of a "cyborg" existence???
18:25:05 Juanjo Seems other good film boys, I dont look all the film, only he read about
18:25:16 John_Ventureville Gattica was a great film in terms of showing how biotech might create a horrific genetic caste system
18:25:54 John_Ventureville SF films and novels are good at allowing us to explore different ideas and how they might impact humanity
18:26:31 John_Ventureville but too many "negative" films can create unrealistic and even very negative attitudes in the public mind
18:26:36 Randolfe Most films are not worth watching. I saw "Day After Tomorrow" and they took basic facts, like the possibility a new ice age could set in qyuickly, and turned it into a cold whirlwind where the temperature dropped ten degrees per second.
18:26:49 John_Ventureville and yet....
18:27:20 John_Ventureville even that film was good in that it got many people thinking about the pollution and global climate change
18:27:37 John_Ventureville and what might need to be done to head off problems with it down the road
18:28:17 John_Ventureville it might not be so easy next time for a U.S. President to laugh off something like the Kyoto Accords
18:28:26 Randolfe Many Immortalists embrace science fiction. However, most science fiction is negative, like "Boys of Brazil" that focused on the possibility of cloning many Hitlers.
18:28:47 John_Ventureville I got a kick out of that film
18:28:50 John_Ventureville you have a point
18:29:04 John_Ventureville but there is also a lot of positive SF out there
18:29:06 Juanjo I write this tittle for locate the film
18:29:18 John_Ventureville *some written by Extropians!*
18:29:44 Randolfe In 1980, I was a fanatical suipporter of John B. Anderson who proposed a $1 a gallon tax on gasoline to encourage smaller cars. Now we have expensive gas with millions of guzzling SUVs that will take years to replace.
18:30:34 Randolfe Omnido, I see you are here. I always like your posts. Why aren't you taking part in the conversation???
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18:31:41 John_Ventureville I love the scene in "Boys from Brazil" when an old Nazi introduces himself to a 12 year-old Hitler clone (surrounded by the sports stuff and rock n' roll posters in his bedroom) and declares him to be "the greatest man who ever lived, Adolf Hitler!" The boy responds by yelling "you are a big wierdo, now get out of my room!"
18:31:51 Juanjo I go here yesterday for prepare the configuration of this chat and I remmeber look OmniDo and others names here
18:32:42 Juanjo Boys from Brazil, goog good, I find this original tittle in spanish
18:33:12 Juanjo Is very excited caht about cryonics and related is the priority in my life
18:33:57 Randolfe - Yes John, that is a great irony. In the end, a "hitler" clone, rather a child conceived through one of Hitler's cells, actually kills the fanatic and saves the Jewish guy. No one seems to apreciate that. And in the end, the Jewish guy burns the list of all the children conceived tghrough cloning of Hiterl's cells.
18:34:17 Juanjo - In this moment only participe in a trashumanism spanish language chat two times at month in Yahoo messenger
18:34:47 John_Ventureville Randolfe, would you ever consider retiring at the Ventureville cryonics community here in Arizona (when we have built it over the next 2-5 years)?
18:34:50 Juanjo I dont know cryonics chat periodical chat, yesterday I found this
18:35:00 John_Ventureville Juanjo, very interesting
18:35:16 John_Ventureville how many people participate?
18:35:46 Randolfe Juanjo, you are a visionary. Don't get discouraged. Help make cryojnics a possibility in Spain. You will be laughed at and discouragedc. Keep the faith. Fight for life. Fight for another life after this one!
18:36:07 Juanjo In "chat trashumanista" participes about 5-10 persons. It depends
18:36:15 John_Ventureville not bad
18:36:46 Juanjo Lokk my page of links related cryonics, Jhon appears :-)
18:37:00 John_Ventureville lol
18:37:40 Randolfe John, I expect to come and visit during the next couple months. Havge to go see my 89 year old Mother who has Alzheimer's in Phoenix. However, I am a Manhattan addict. I love the excitement and pulse of life in the big city. I don't thihnk I would find happiness in the desert.
18:37:47 Juanjo Oh I can' t paste text here
18:38:21 Juanjo Wait a moment please I mark the link
18:38:46 John_Ventureville Randolfe, I admit that life is rather leisurely around here, and a guy from the Big Apple might find it hard to take
18:38:59 John_Ventureville Mayer only has 1,200 people
18:39:06 Juanjo
http://usuarios.arsy...duran/enla.html 18:39:30 Juanjo It's provisional domain
18:39:36 John_Ventureville but perhaps ten or twenty years down the road you might change your mind
18:39:47 John_Ventureville and by that time we will really have something special to offer you
18:40:10 Randolfe Well, if you had sattlelight television and "hot-n-cold" Indian braves I might consider it. But I really doubt even that would do it.
18:41:01 Juanjo Can you access to the link ?
18:41:47 John_Ventureville we have cable tv presently (getting satellite is no big deal)
18:42:24 Juanjo Thanks Randolife for your comments. I don´t discouraged never. my live is in the play ;-) je ej
18:42:48 Randolfe Check out the "Sundance Channel" and also "Uncensored". They have the best programming.
18:42:51 John_Ventureville I don't understand what you mean by "hot and cold indian braves?"
18:44:12 Randolfe I am making a joke. I am an older homosexual who had some of his first sexual adventures with Indians in Arizona. It was not a serious comment, just a comment to test you.
18:44:49 Juanjo Randolife when you speak about Omnido the chat you comment is teh immortaly institute chat ?
18:45:41 Randolfe Yes. on the right side of the screen you see people who have signed in. I was trying to entice him/her into joining us. One of the good posters at the site here.
18:46:38 Juanjo Ok I check it
18:47:04 Randolfe Look at his postings by doing a search of the site and you will see wqhat I mean.
18:47:40 Juanjo Jhon, you are an active CryoNet poster, have you any important conclusion about cryonics with your important dedication ?
18:47:45 John_Ventureville Randolfe, I did know that you were gay, but simply did not want to try to read too much into your comment
18:48:22 John_Ventureville what fascinates me about you is your desire to make clones of yourself
18:48:31 John_Ventureville I have no such interest regarding myself
18:48:41 Randolfe That's fione. I dopn't like to make an issue of it unless pressed. It really isn't that important at my age. However, social tolerance is.
18:48:53 Juanjo So I am Jhon
18:49:45 John_Ventureville speaking of tolerence
18:49:57 Juanjo I think solution inmortaly probably is necessary selected clonation but clone myself...
18:50:33 Randolfe I am one Immortalist who is willing to "settle" for the possible. That means that I would be happy to see just my genotype, the formula that is me, live on into additional lifetimes. I wo7uld like to make that "really me". However, I know "anotehr me" is really possible.
18:50:46 Juanjo I think a clon of me Is different person of me, is not a good option for immortality, at the end, is a different person
18:50:56 John_Ventureville when I attended extro 5 a male crossdresser/possible transsexual attended, and I was surprised at how "openminded" extropian guys tended to avoid him like he had a bad case of Ebola
18:51:15 John_Ventureville oh, well
18:52:26 John_Ventureville I admit that I would like to perhaps raise just one clone of myself to fulfill the desire of redressing the wrongs of my childhood
18:52:30 Randolfe Welcome to the gender-uptight, sexual-orientation intolerant world. For that matter, the Extropians and others are not much better than born-again Christains when it come to the issue of cloning.
18:53:45 Juanjo Intolerance is a common proble of the worls, certainly
18:53:49 John_Ventureville the type of cloning which I care most about of course is therapeutic
18:53:56 Randolfe John, you have just hit on one of my main arguments: Wouldn't you be a better parent of yourself than your original parents were? Wouldn't you have a special understadiung and s
18:54:53 John_Ventureville but at the same time I could see some ugly things about myself I try to avoid if I took it upon myself to raise a clone of myself as my very own son
18:54:53 Randolfe And a speciaql relationship and closeness and understanding with your later-born twin than your parents had with you. Being the parent of a later-born twin would be a special and magical experience.
18:55:11 John_Ventureville "later born twin" lol
18:56:11 Randolfe Yes, you would know that if you were a hyprchrondriac, you would discourage that tendenacy in your later-born twinj. If you had special musical abilities, you would see he got early musical lessons.
18:56:20 John_Ventureville the technology would probably eventually be very abused when a Saddam Hussein type of person raises thousands of clones of himself
18:56:42 John_Ventureville but I think Saddam's nightmare would have been to be surrounded by thousands of younger versions of himself!
18:56:43 John_Ventureville lol
18:56:49 OmniDo * OmniDo Yawns
18:56:55 OmniDo Poltiics are the discussion?
18:56:58 OmniDo ./sigh
18:57:00 John_Ventureville Omido, welcome
18:57:09 OmniDo Hello.
18:57:13 John_Ventureville we are discussing Randolfe's fav topic
18:57:16 John_Ventureville cloning
18:57:21 OmniDo Ah
18:57:25 OmniDo Pro or con?
18:57:26 Randolfe You discount the effects of "nurture". A later-born twin of Hitler might just be a opainter who used his vocal abilitiies to raise money for the arts.
18:57:32 John_Ventureville Omni, ever desire to raise a clone of yourself?
18:57:39 John_Ventureville and be the parent you never had?
18:57:41 OmniDo Yes
18:57:44 OmniDo Yes
18:57:55 John_Ventureville you and Randolfe think alike
18:58:07 Randolfe I knew Omnido was brilliant.
18:58:12 John_Ventureville LOL
18:58:37 John_Ventureville +isn't it funny how when a person agrees with us they are viewed as being very bright*
18:58:49 OmniDo As for when and where that will be, I have no idea
18:59:11 John_Ventureville might take a century or more before such things are allowed
18:59:48 Randolfe I actually like a lot of public spokespeople who I disagree withg. Black conservatives particularly intrigue and challenge me.
19:00:18 OmniDo John_Ventureville: That is presuming that one allows themselves to be governed by their inferiors
19:00:47 OmniDo I for one have no faith, support, or interest in so called "modern government" so I could care less about what old farts in congress think is "allowed"
19:00:59 Randolfe Yes, those of us "worthy of cloning" must take cxopntrol and see that our genotypes live on!!
19:01:17 OmniDo /salute Randolfe
19:01:20 OmniDo 1,8 -.-
19:01:30 Juanjo Oh ! :-)
19:01:46 Randolfe Omnido, sop glad I enticed you into the discussion!!
19:01:52 John_Ventureville when mature nanotech gets here perhaps we can build an immortalist "ark" and go somewhere away from the governmental busybodies!
19:02:33 Randolfe John, I am sure they "government busybodies" will find a way to follow us. It is "human nature".
19:02:39 OmniDo Then again, the discussion is only mildy entertaining, due to the fact that advanced nano will render most of these concepts moot.
19:03:08 John_Ventureville when you combine advanced nano with A.I., yes, the jig is up
19:03:28 John_Ventureville governments will exist at the pleasure of the machines
19:03:35 John_Ventureville as will each of our individual lives
19:04:21 Juanjo Any opinion of Engines of creation, the Drexler classical
19:04:23 Juanjo ?
19:04:33 Randolfe I personally will fight against any government that tells me if I have the right to live. That is what is happening now with governments trying to outlaw human cloning.
19:04:38 John_Ventureville Drexler's theories have taken a beating lately
19:04:55 OmniDo I for one take more interest in the creation of an advanced nano-neutral network that equals if not exceeds human biological limitations, than start cloning myself.
19:05:01 Randolfe Not familiar with Drexler classicals.
19:05:37 OmniDo brb gotta jet
19:06:00 kzzch kzzch (~chatzilla@[death to spam].68.115.12.159) has joined #immortal
19:06:11 Randolfe This has been one fabulous evening. However, I have two guests that I am ignoring. I have to say goodnight to all of you.
19:07:45 Randolfe If anyone wants to contyact me. My email is rhwicker@[death to spam].optonline.net
19:07:47 Juanjo In Spain now the time is 3 pm !!!, but I must stay here and I stay here je je je
19:07:56 John_Ventureville Randolfe, good night
19:08:14 Juanjo Yes Randolife good night
19:08:24 John_Ventureville Omnido, how is your lady friend?
19:08:29 Randolfe Good night John.. Sleep tight in the quiet desert.
19:08:37 John_Ventureville I will try!
19:08:39 John_Ventureville thank you
19:08:46 Juanjo Rando you have a MSN or Yahoo mail ?
19:08:48 Randolfe Randolfe (~Randolfe@[death to spam].ool-44c1e97a.dyn.optonline.net) has quit IRC [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:09:59 John_Ventureville I better go
19:10:04 John_Ventureville so I bid you all a good night!
19:10:19 John_Ventureville I hope I was a decent guest
19:10:42 John_Ventureville and I hope one day Randolfe will consider Ventureville as his home
19:10:47 John_Ventureville bye
