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The Prophet Of Immortality - Aubrey de Grey


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#1 kevin

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:35 PM


Link: http://www.popsci.co...ecbccdrcrd.html
Cached: http://www.kevsplace...y/cachefile.htm



On this glorious spring day in Cambridge, England, the heraldic flags are flying from the stone towers, and I feel like I could be in the 17th century—or, as I pop into the Eagle Pub to meet University of Cambridge longevity theorist Aubrey de Grey, the 1950s. It was in this pub, after all, that James Watson and Francis Crick met regularly for lunch while they were divining the structure of DNA and where, in February 1953, Crick made his breathless announcement that they had succeeded.

Aubrey de Grey has no victory pronouncements to make as of yet, but he is vigorously pursuing an even more challenging project. Using the legacy that Watson and Crick bequeathed us, he proposes to tinker with the essential biochemical pathways that drive the aging process. De Grey contends that we know enough to intelligently map out a program of anti-aging intervention research such that sometime in the next 100 years, and quite possibly much sooner, the average human life span may be 5,000 years, a figure brought short of outright immortality by the small number of people who will die from non-age-related diseases and everybody else who, given the boggling amount of time available to them on the planet, will eventually do something unlucky or stupid like walk in front of a moving rocket car. In de Grey time, the 400-year span between Shakespeare’s England and today would be but the blink of an eye.



#2 reason

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 12:01 AM

Nice. I think that's the best pic of Aubrey yet - or maybe that's just my inner goth talking.

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#3

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 12:19 AM

I haven't finished reading the article yet, but it's a great picture. ;)

More importantly, it brings more publicity which in this case may translate into more contributions to the MMP.

Over the last few days I've seen the contributions to the MMP through Betterhumans.com increase by ~$3,000 USD.

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#4 kraemahz

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 12:44 AM

Is it just me, or his the resemblance to Rasputin uncanny in that picture?

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 01:05 AM

ImmInst recieves a mention in the Popular Science article:

Adelaide wanders off to her lab, and de Grey, Ben and I settle down among the buttercups on a cow-munched field beyond the university, whose flag-festooned battlements in the distance look like a Hollywood treatment of Camelot. We’re playing Othello, a Go-like board game—or rather, I am watching as de Grey makes mincemeat of his young acolyte. Ben, who is given to pronouncements like “I plan to be either the last generation to die or the first not to die,” takes it well. He and de Grey met through the Internet, both being devotees of the “transhumanist” Web sites and blogs that have recently flourished, especially in the U.K., sites with names such as Betterhumans and The Immortality Institute. Transhumanists are science (and science-fiction) enthusiasts entranced by the prospect that futuristic technology will allow us to modify our bodies—wings, anyone? infrared vision?—and also to live a really, really long time (if not in our own bodies, then in robotic ones governed by our own downloaded brains). Most any gerontologist of repute would dive under the desk if a transhumanist came calling, but de Grey enjoys passing between the worlds of the professional scientist and the amateur crank.



#6

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 02:29 AM

I enjoyed the article. I disagreed with some of the comments, but that didn't take away from the overall appeal of the article. There is no clear pro- or anti-longevity slant, it's simply an introduction and explanation of engineered negligible senescence as Aubrey de Grey sees it coming to fruition, with counter-views, as well as a biography of the man himself.

#7 John Doe

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 03:30 AM

No, Reason, there is no doubt that the picture is just haunting and even beautiful.

I was fortunate enough to walk with Aubrey across the University of Toronto campus throughout TV04. Reading about this author walking with Aubrey around Cambridge brings back those memories.

My favorite, bittersweet quote:

It’s unlikely, he admits, that “escape velocity” will be reached in time to be of use to Adelaide (“the probabilities are getting on the low side for her”). He tries not to think about that. There are no guarantees for him either, I venture. That bothers him less and less, he says. His initial interest in prolonging life did stem from an aversion to the idea of his own demise, but he has since expanded his vision in a more altruistic way. It’s all about saving lives—whose lives is less important.


Edited by John Doe, 09 December 2004 - 03:59 AM.


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Posted 09 December 2004 - 04:54 AM

Excellent publicity. Be on your best behavior folks, as traffic increases.

#9 jaydfox

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 02:00 PM

kraemahz, it's not uncanny, it's downright creepy! And given the talk of immortality, it's not just creepy, it's downright... Okay, I can't think of anything worse than creepy. Bizarre? No... Spooky? No... I'd consult a thesaurus, but I guess it's not that important, now is it?

Cosmos, I too have noticed a big push in funding for the MMP in December. Several thousand dollars, and several new members of The Three Hundred. I'd like to do a trend analysis on it, but there are too many variables to make any decent kind of predictions. After all, donations moved at a furious clip this time last year, and slowed almost to a standstill by May of this year.

I have been playing with the numbers using some general long-term assumptions, and the numbers look promising: filling the ranks of the 300 by the end of this decade (December, 2009), plus or minus 18 months, for example. Reaching a million dollars in cash in a similar timeframe, perhaps even a year sooner.

But really, depending on our assumptions, we could reasonably see the prize anywhere between half a million and five million in cash by the end of this decade. Given enough activism, and a few breakthrough ideas in the PR department, and we could see ten million or more by the end of the decade. But reasonably speaking, half a million to five million is still a good range.

Hmm, that was a random tangent. I suppose I should actually read the article and comment on it, no?

#10 advancedatheist

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:10 PM

A childless only child of apparently inexhaustible intellectual energy, de Grey is convinced that the world is his sandbox, and he can’t find any good reason why it shouldn’t remain so. If the next million days could be like this one, drinking good ale on the Cam, talking shop, and getting down to a serious night’s work, that would be heaven, or its functional equivalent. The life spans he foretells would seem to suit him best of all. “It’s just inconceivable to me that one could ever run out of things to do,” he says. “All one needs is the right mental capacities.” I tell him, “You are the prototype for the new eternal man.” He doesn’t bat an eye. “That’s right,” he agrees.



#11 jaydfox

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:18 PM

I think this quote could be a key selling point for SENS to the public:

We’re at an unprecedented time in the history of science, he says, having learned enough about the genetic and biochemical processes that lead to metabolic damage that we can begin to sketch out a plan to repair it. After all, it’s easier to play engineer and fix a problem than to play God and truly understand it.

(my emphasis added)

Note how he easily brushes aside any notion of playing God. I think the quote is pure genius. I know that SENS has the word "engineer" in it, but we really need to push this angle for those who would respond that attempting to cure aging is playing God. We're not trying to play God. We're just advocating better engineering.

#12 advancedatheist

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:41 PM

Note how he easily brushes aside any notion of playing God.  I think the quote is pure genius.  I know that SENS has the word "engineer" in it, but we really need to push this angle for those who would respond that attempting to cure aging is playing God.  We're not trying to play God.  We're just advocating better engineering.


Unfortunately the Intelligent Design creationists are arguing for the the exact analogy between molecular biology on the one hand, and invention and engineering on the other, so that biological engineering becomes a matter of "playing god" after all.

Though as my friend Mike Perry says, serious immortalist aren't "playing."

#13 kraemahz

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 09:39 PM

Jay, I think the word you're looking for is eerie, as:
adj.
1. Inspiring inexplicable fear, dread, or uneasiness; strange and frightening.
2. Suggestive of the supernatural; mysterious.

#14 Mind

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 09:42 PM

A mention in Popular Science is a huge step for Imminst. Our efforts at memetic engineering are paying off.

#15 DJS

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 10:02 PM

Jay, I think the word you're looking for is eerie, as:
adj.
1. Inspiring inexplicable fear, dread, or uneasiness; strange and frightening.
2. Suggestive of the supernatural; mysterious.


I find it more than a little ironic that there would be Immortalists who feel "uneasy" about Aubrey's appearance when, as the article points out, most gerontologists would jump under their desk at the first sight of one of us...

Give me a break kraemahz. I also use to be a bit of a tight ass about appearance and what not, but my views have since evolved-- and to tell you the truth, it wouldn't matter to me now if Aubrey had a giant smilie face tatooed on his forehead as long as he was effectively transmitting/ creating exposure for the Immortalist meme. Mind is right, having ImmInst mentioned in Popular Science is a big step foward, and we owe it all to Aubrey and his name recognition.

#16 reason

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 11:17 PM

I think it's the luck of the draw that the article was written by someone who is fine with belittling things that are off the mainstream - I mean, calling Rejuvenation Research "fringy" is a big stretch. The important thing is that, even if the author isn't comfortable with much of this, he put the facts there for people to make their own decisions about whether serious anti-aging research is "fringy" and people who support it are "cranks".

As I pointed out on the ExI list, Betterhumans doesn't get that much less traffic than PopSci in the grand scheme of things. We're catching up, and I see derogatory references to transhumanists far less often these days.

On a side note; I don't think anyone can afford to be caught up on normality and appearance in this community. It's rife with individualists and iconoclasts, overflowing with the charismatically endowed and people who are, ultimately, in it to be able to make themselves even more radically different from everyone else.

Reason
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#17 kraemahz

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 11:59 PM

I'm sorry if it came out sounding that way, I was referring to his similarity in appearance in that one picture to a historical figure, not anything against de Grey or how he chooses to present himself. It's not just the beard I'm referring to, but the whole air of the picture, the lines on his face, the way his hair style seems to match. Don't get me wrong, I like the picture, it was just something I thought was interesting to point out. I was joking with the definintion, as it seemed fitting that Jay couldn't quite find the words to describe what he thought about the connection and the word "inexplicable" was right in there in the definition. I have nothing but the utmost respect for de Grey and I completely agree this is a huge step forward.

#18

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 01:36 AM

Aubrey wears his beard well, but it's his actions and activism that distinguish him among this community.

reason, it's to be expected that the mainstream media would identify us in this way. The Popular Science article could've gone much farther in it's slight of the transhumanist community, and anti-aging research in general.

#19 jaydfox

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 01:26 PM

I was going to defend my statements at length, but kraemahz and I seem to be on the same page. I don't have anything against de Grey's beard; in fact, I think it's pretty cool. But the uncanny resemblance to the picture of Rasputin was, well, creepy, eerie, whatever... The resemblance was creepy, not de Grey.

And now that I've read the article, I see that the author himself made the connection as well. Not only that, but the way he went to great lengths to emphasize how unorthodox and, well, mystical de Grey's personality and vision seem, the more that connection to Rasputin seems to materialize... It almost makes you wonder if... Nah.. [glasses]

We-ell... [hmm]

Nah...

Edited by jaydfox, 10 December 2004 - 04:28 PM.


#20 Da55id

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 04:11 PM

uhh - after all, it's just hair...

Once MF gets into the multi-million range and Aubrey is a populist figure like Carl Sagan once was, then we may (with his assent of course) have an Ebay bidding war:

"Aubrey's Beard - Shave it or Save it?"

bid/vote to get him to shave or vote/donate to save his beard...all moneys are donated, and the side with the highest amount donated wins. At a dollar a follicle it could generate some "handsome" returns [tung]

Dave

#21 jaydfox

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 06:03 PM

Save it. If he ever gets as popular as Sagan (I want to say "when", but I'll remain neutral for now...), then shaving it would rock the foundations of the scientific community.

Actually, I guess if he gets as popular as Sagan, then he will have already rocked the foundations of the scientific community. Screw it, I change my vote: shave it!

On the other hand, it is pretty spiffy. Especially since, assuming aging is stoppable/reversible in mice by 2020, de Grey's beard would probably be starting to show some grey. If he lives to 2040, or whenever aging is stopped/reveresed in a human, his beard might be white. That would help put the "Methuselah" in the Methuselah Foundation.

Okay, I change my vote again: save it.

#22

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 12:43 AM

My recollection on the first time I saw AdG debating - I groaned: oh no, who is this guy with the Greek orthodox church priest beard? But after I heard him talk, I was pleasantly surprised at how erudite his arguments were (on the cell surface, anyway).

Whatever he does with the beard, all the best.

#23

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 12:39 AM

I think a Wired interview is probably going to be coming up for AdG, with illustrated explanations of his SENS theories. When that happens MMP funding will hit an all time high because he will be promoting it.

To AG24: You have a responsibility to also convey on the interview the following:
1. The 'underground' movement for a similar prize but using drosophila as a MO
2. The 3 SENS supplemental theories:
a. DNA repair enhancement of mito and geno DNA
b. stem cell production enhancement
c. immune reprogramming (cancer & autoimmune disease)

#24 reason

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 01:34 AM

You guys in the underground fly movement are on a shorter timeline here - you really need to have a website and an overview/business plan up now. You're going to be missing out if you don't...

Reason
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#25 jaydfox

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 05:27 PM

I just noticed that not only did de Grey get a very long article devoted to himself in Pop-Sci, but it's the foremost "headline" article, complete with a picture, displayed on the website's mainpage. Has anyone seen the print version of the magazine yet? How prominent is the article there?

#26

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 06:01 AM

It is the #2 most popular story on the Popular Science website.

#27 Cyto

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 08:25 AM

The meal over, our band of four strikes out on a walking tour of the Cambridge campus: de Grey, Adelaide, myself, and Ben Zealley, a 19-year-old first-year biology student and de Grey protégé who, with characteristic earnestness, is attempting to launch an undergraduate longevity society.


Do we know this person? Can we invite them to ImmInst?

#28 Bruce Klein

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 02:24 PM

Dear Aubrey,

Nice PopSci article.. now linked to ImmInst homepage with discussion by members:
http://www.imminst.org

Would you know of Ben Zealley's contact as would like to ask him to join us for an ImmInst chat.

Thanks,
Bruce

#29 Bruce Klein

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 02:30 PM

fab
excellent idea - I'm sure he will be very chuffed

-aubrey

#30 Bruce Klein

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 06:14 PM

Ben has said he will consider and get back with us in Jan.




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