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I'm tired of waiting...we should do something


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#1 emerson

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 05:47 AM


Basically, and I'm betting I'm not alone in this, I'm getting sick of sitting in the stadium of research. Sitting around, having to just hope that not only does a researcher or team have interest, permission, but also funding to go ahead with answering whatever long held question I'm thinking about at the moment. It seems like it's been a pretty common theme on this board. There's something promising, in need of repeat studies and followups, and then nothing is done. Meanwhile, we're left trying to substitute philosophy for experimental procedure in trying to figure out what's actually doing something in our bodies, and which is just doing something to our wallets.

It's especially frustrating because, by something close to coincidence in my general interest in coding and then cognitive science, I found myself thrown into a realm of experimental procedures that I never thought I'd have any use for. But, what I thought were just a wasted trade of time for credits might actually be doing something to answer the questions. And I have a lot of questions. I'd really love to get some answers to the piracetam question, find out in general which substances actually do something in young healthy adults, and actual get some a single shared experimental design so they can be more easily weighed up against each other.

And that's pretty much my proposal. We, the community, step up to bat and put our time and money where our mouth is. I've set up a site over at HumanUpliftProject.com that goes into a bit more detail. Basically, the idea is to have the research ideas and suggestions come from the community, paid for by a monthly $10.00 membership cost, have the paying members all go over the tools and methodology involved in the study, and then to keep hacking away at these substances. Not only nootropics, I'd like to cover health supplements too. In particular, seeing what 'combined' action lifespan enhancing substances have when given together. And, even seeing what, if any, effect traditional concentration aids such as meditation have in comparison to proposed mental enhancers. I won't take any money until there's evidence of enough seed funds to actual begin a simpler (and cheaper) project. I'm aiming low, at 100 pledges on the sites message board of intent to donate on a monthly basis. Obviously, that's seriously skimming the line of what's needed. But, it's enough to get things rolling and the first couple studies started.

Hopefully this wasn't too spammy. I know it's sitting a bit on the fence, and wasn't even sure if this would be the proper platform to mention it in within the board system. It is, however, the board where the single concentrated essense of my bitching about bad study methodology has been located so I figured it was the best place.

I hate even getting close to being perceived as spamming for anything, but, well, I hate just sitting on my ass and hoping that someone else starts doing something even more. The older I get the more I'm seeing a need for everyone, all of us, to move as strongly and loudly forward as possible against a system which isn't very sympathetic to a lot of our base assumptions.

#2 doug123

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 06:50 AM

Bitchin' idea, emerson! [thumb]

I propose that before we begin collecting funds, let's:

Find a consensus on the possible costs involved from individuals whom might conduct such research.

Some good questions to have answered before moving forward would be the following:

Who might do the research?

Perhaps we could inquire from Dr. Turner Et. Al the cost of the following publication:


Obviously, we'd want the full CANTAB Battery (Cambridge Neuropsychological Test Automated Battery) battery): learn more about CANTAB tests by clicking here.

CANTAB tests
The nineteen CANTAB tests are grouped below in broad functional categories.

o CANTAB tests are sensitive to cognitive changes caused by a wide range of CNS disorders and medication effects, and can detect changes that most other tests will simply miss.
o Where error scores are a key outcome measure, CANTAB tests are graded in difficulty to avoid ceiling effects.
o Where accurate measurement of latency is important, responses are made via a press pad. Elsewhere, engaging touch-screen technology maximises compliance.
o The majority of CANTAB tests are independent of language and culture.


Other interesting tests that can be run:

1. Visual analogue scales
Bond A, Lader M (1974) The use of analogue scales in rating subjective feelings. Br J Med Psychol 47:211-218

2. Digit span: Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale

3. Decision making (gamble) task: Rahman S, Sahakian BJ, Cardinal RN, Rogers RD, Robbins TW (2001) Decision making and neuropsychiatry. Trends Cogn Sci 5:271-277

4. Stop-signal (stop) task:

a) This classic paradigm: Logan GD (1994) On the ability to inhibit thought and action. In: Dagenbach D, Carr TH (eds) Inhibitory processes in attention, memory and language. Academic Press, San Diego, pp 189-239

However, herein lies the problem. Running a clinical trial on a drug such as modafinil might be different than a drug such as Piracetam. Modafinil seems to work for most patients upon first administration, whereas with Piracetam that might not seem to be the case -- and hokey pokey so called other "nootropics." [sfty]

I know of many that do not report any effect at all. Also, it's possible that Piracetam requires several months of dosing to achieve its effects; and this might mean that the trials could cost even more because the need to re test. Every time you hire teams of highly accredited researchers such as Dr. Turner's team, you are competing with drug companies et al, if you know what I mean. They don't work for minimum wage, if ya know what I mean. ;)

Personally, I do not think Piracetam measures up to modafinil in clinical effect. Some might suggest we invest in more compounds with similar potential to a drug like modafinil rather than Piracetam -- maybe we should take a look further into ampakines? However, it would be good to prove -- once and for all -- that the placebo effect is still running in full force!

More info on Dr. Turner: here.

Her profile:

Danielle Turner is a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Psychiatry, and works within the University of Cambridge Behavioural and Clinical Neuroscience Institute. She completed a PhD in psychopharmacology at the University of Cambridge in 2005, under the supervision of Professors Barbara Sahakian and Trevor Robbins. She was supported by an MRC research studentship, with research funds from the Wellcome Trust.

Danielle is best known for her work on cognitive enhancement. She has presented her work at numerous national and international conferences, in addition to publishing eight first-authored scientific articles in high quality journals. Indeed, her article on cognitive enhancement in healthy volunteers was the most highly cited research paper of the year in the journal Psychopharmacology. Her research has received widespread recognition and has been discussed in public forums such as the Guardian newspaper, The Today Programme and the BBC World Service. Danielle has also contributed to initiatives such as the Department of Trade and Industry's Foresight project in Brain Science, Addiction and Drugs and DEMOS and the Wellcome Trust's joint Better Humans debate.


Danielle is a keen communicator of science to the general public. She has received awards from the New Scientist/Wellcome Trust, the Medical Research Council UK (Max Perutz essay competition) and the Daily Telegraph. Danielle has also received special recognition for her work from the Royal Institution as a finalist in the 'Science Graduate of the Year' competition. One of Danielle's core research interests is in exploring the ethical implications of enhancing human cognition, a topic covered in her March 2006 article in BioSocieties. Danielle is a fellow of the Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics (CCLE), California, USA.
Danielle Turner is a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Psychiatry, and works within the University of Cambridge Behavioural and Clinical Neuroscience Institute. She completed a PhD in psychopharmacology at the University of Cambridge in 2005, under the supervision of Professors Barbara Sahakian and Trevor Robbins. She was supported by an MRC research studentship, with research funds from the Wellcome Trust.

Danielle is best known for her work on cognitive enhancement. She has presented her work at numerous national and international conferences, in addition to publishing eight first-authored scientific articles in high quality journals. Indeed, her article on cognitive enhancement in healthy volunteers was the most highly cited research paper of the year in the journal Psychopharmacology. Her research has received widespread recognition and has been discussed in public forums such as the Guardian newspaper, The Today Programme and the BBC World Service. Danielle has also contributed to initiatives such as the Department of Trade and Industry's Foresight project in Brain Science, Addiction and Drugs and DEMOS and the Wellcome Trust's joint Better Humans? debate.

Danielle is a keen communicator of science to the general public. She has received awards from the New Scientist/Wellcome Trust, the Medical Research Council UK (Max Perutz essay competition) and the Daily Telegraph. Danielle has also received special recognition for her work from the Royal Institution as a finalist in the 'Science Graduate of the Year' competition. One of Danielle's core research interests is in exploring the ethical implications of enhancing human cognition, a topic covered in her March 2006 article in BioSocieties. Danielle is a fellow of the Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics (CCLE), California, USA.


A co inventor of the CANTAB battery: Professor Barbara J Sahakian (Professor of Clinical Neuropsychology, University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine) -- also worked as part of Dr. Turner's team on the above referenced abstract on modafinil in healthy subjects.

Her personal statement:

Barbara Jacquelyn Sahakian, FMedSci,
Professor of Clinical Neuropsychology
Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine,
Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge CB2 2QQ
Tel: 44-1223 331209/Fax: 44-1223 336968 Email:jenny.hall@cambsmh.nhs.uk

Barbara J Sahakian is Professor of Clinical Neuropsychology at the Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine. She has an international reputation in the fields of cognitive psychopharmacology, neuroethics, neuropsychology, neuropsychiatry and neuroimaging. She is co-inventor of the CANTAB computerised neuropsychological tests, which are in use world-wide. She is probably best known for her research work on cognition and depression, cognitive enhancement using pharmacological treatments, neuroethics and early detection of Alzheimer's disease. Indeed, she has over 200 publications covering these topics in scientific journals, including Science, Nature Neuroscience, The Lancet, British Medical Journal, Archives of General Psychiatry, American Journal of Psychiatry, Biological Psychiatry, the Journal of Neuroscience, Brain, Psychopharmacology and Psychological Medicine. Her current programme of research, funded by the Wellcome Trust and Medical Research Council, investigates the neurochemical modulation of impulsive and compulsive behaviour in neuropsychiatric disorders, such as unipolar and bipolar depression and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. This topic was the focus of her recent paper published in Science, (vol 311, Feb. 2006, 861-863).


Professor Sahakian was one of the first researchers to suggest that attentional dysfunction in Alzheimer's disease could be ameliorated using pharmacotherapy, such as cholinesterase inhibitors. In addition, she was early to highlight the cognitive changes in unipolar and bipolar depression, as well as their significance for functional outcome. In 2003, she was selected to lecture on this topic for the Teaching Day at the annual meeting of the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology (ACNP). Most recently, she has introduced the importance of the concept of cognitive reserve to the field of neuropsychiatry (Psychological Medicine, 2006, 36, 1053-1064).

In recognition of her contribution to cognitive neuroscience, she was elected a Fellow of the Academy of Medical Sciences in 2004 and in 2005 she was awarded the Donders Chair in Psychopharmacology at Utrecht University (The Netherlands).

From November 2005 she began a four-year appointment to the Committee of Women in Neuroscience for the Society for Neuroscience (SFN, USA). In 2006 she began her appointment on the Medical Research Council Neurosciences and Mental Health Board. Also this year, she was appointed to the Executive Committee of the newly formed Neuroethics Society and is on the Editorial Board of the American Journal of Bioethics - Neuroscience

Professor Sahakian has also trained over 15 PhD students in the field of cognitive neuroscience, many now with international reputations in their own right (e.g. Adrian M Owen, Rebecca Elliott, Andrew D. Lawrence, Adam Aron) and several prize winners (e.g. Jennifer Coull, Mitul Mehta, Danielle Turner). Since 2004 she has been writing and training PhD students in the field of neuroethics. One of her students, Danielle Turner, who completed her PhD on the psychopharmacology of cognitive enhancement in 2005, received an award from the British Psychological Society and was recently selected as one of the top five young UK researchers. Her PhD student, Karen Ersche, who received her degree this year, has just been appointed Betty Behrens Research Fellow at Clare Hall, Cambridge.


These are the most prestigious and experienced in the field of cognitive science I can think of.

Edited by nootropikamil, 07 December 2006 - 07:04 AM.


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#3

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:32 AM

Very impressive effort ( http://humanupliftproject.com ) emerson. Well done.

#4 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 02:39 PM

Hear hear!

And, even seeing what, if any, effect traditional concentration aids such as meditation have in comparison to proposed mental enhancers.

My money is on the buddhist monks to clean house on the pharmacologically tweaked competition. [tung]

#5 emerson

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 12:21 AM

Sorry for the lack of followup. I'm getting ready to move soon, and have been putting feelers around my old school in hope of either some nice angel funds or possibly at least donations. Not much luck on either side so far, but I figured it was worth asking. I've had some odd teachers in the past, and it wouldn't have surprised me too much if one of them felt like leaping in with as much as he could.

One thing I'd really like to do as well would be to just go through some of the studies that have been done. There's a ton that are fairly obviously flawed, and it'd be nice to get those cleaned out for better examination of what we do have.

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#6 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 06:21 AM

Every time you hire teams of highly accredited researchers such as Dr. Turner's team, you are competing with drug companies et al, if you know what I mean. They don't work for minimum wage, if ya know what I mean.


It seems outsourcing would be a good alternative to explore when looking to conduct research on a shoestring.

Edit: I just checked out your site and it looks nice. Just thought you might want to recalculate that 3 pennies per day thing though...




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