• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Do Nootropics Work for 17 Year Olds


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 exigentsky

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 03 May 2005 - 01:56 AM


I'm 17, and I'm wondering, would taking nootropics even affect me?

If so, which nootropics do you think would help improve my memory and speed?

#2 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 03 May 2005 - 02:41 AM

I'm 17, and I'm wondering, would taking nootropics even affect me?


Yes several nootropic have been studied in those as young as 6.

If so, which nootropics do you think would help improve my memory and speed?


Pyritinol and Huperzine A usually is the perfect combo for young minds.

Try 400-600 mg of Pyritinol at once in the morning with meals for 2 days, if you don’t see a difference take 1,000-1,200 mg for the remainder of the week you should see some changes regarding mental energy and/or processing speed. Then give Huperzine A a shot at 200 mcg for a few days if no change increase to 300 mcg for 2 days then cut back down to 100-200 mcg daily.

There is a slight possibility of light nausea, a headache, and feeling overstimulated but in the rare chance to experience this it will go away in within a week or so and/or after you lower the dose to suit your needs.

Note: There are several other compounds you can try but this seems to be one of the more effective routes to try first.

Yours In Health


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:42 AM

What about Piracetam? Should I bother with that?

Also, I'm quite resistant to taking any pharmaceutical drugs when not strictly necessary, so are you sure that Pyritinol is totally safe and without contraindication?


This for example: http://bmj.bmjjourna...ll/328/7439/572 is worrying me.

These drugs were not meant for extended use, as in the rest of one's life.

Edited by exigentsky, 03 May 2005 - 04:58 AM.


#4 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:44 AM

What about Piracetam? Should I bother with that?


Piracetam is one of the best studied, safest, and has the most biochemical effects to enhance and protect brain function. I would strongly recommend it, but you may not see as an immediate result as you would will the previously mentioned compounds.

Also, I'm quite resistant to taking any pharmaceutical drugs when not strictly necessary, so are you sure that Pyritinol is totally safe and without contraindication?


First Pyritinol is a vitamin like compound derived from B-6 (pyridoxine). It is far closer to a dietary supplement than a drug.

No compound is perfectly safe, but Pyritinol has been in use for over 40 years in over 50 countries with no studies showing serious side effects, except for those with rheumatoid arthritis. It is even used in a syrup form for kids.


This for example: http://bmj.bmjjourna...ll/328/7439/572 is worrying me.


Unfortunately most people do not know how to interpret articles like the link above, let me clarify it for you.

The article is not a study, but an assertion that pyritinol was the sole cause of side effects in 6 people.

5 of the 6 people were taking other drugs (ranging from codeine to antibiotics).

These were not healthy people.

Based on 6 of the 100,000 people or more taking pyritinol having a serious side effect, the risk is very rare. I would not be concerned, try it if you feel ill after a few days drop it.


These drugs were not meant for extended use, as in the rest of one's life.


Most of these compounds have been extensively studied to benefit you for the rest of your life and some (deprenyl) to help you get there. What they were meant for and what they can do for you are different. I choose to benefit from the current research and enhance and protect my body and brain from the devastating effects of aging.

I understand your concerns. I have been taking smart drugs for over a decade and been routinely testing my blood for any problems (I've also given nootropics to over 10,000 people), I am willing to guide you through the process of finding the right compounds to give you the benefits you are seeking.

Yours In Health


#5 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 03 May 2005 - 01:05 PM

"Unfortunately most people do not know how to interpret articles like the link above, let me clarify it for you.

The article is not a study, but an assertion that pyritinol was the sole cause of side effects in 6 people.

5 of the 6 people were taking other drugs (ranging from codeine to antibiotics).

These were not healthy people.

Based on 6 of the 100,000 people or more taking pyritinol having a serious side effect, the risk is very rare. I would not be concerned, try it if you feel ill after a few days drop it."

I understand the study was not of healthy people, but I'm still a little worried.

My reasoning is that the same negative effects result in healthy people but in healthy people the body is able to deal with them and is not crippled. Kind of like some one with advanced AIDS may die from a cold while a normal person recovers in a week. While the effect existed in a healthy person, it was amplified in the sickly.

This is my only remaining worry.

#6 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 03 May 2005 - 03:17 PM

It is a safe compound.

It has been studied in healthy people with no side effects.

Your fears are based on a handful of people over probably 500,000 or more people who have used it with no problems?

Yet you consume foods, breathe air, and drink water full of toxic compounds everyday without that fear?

Seriously your fear is not based on the weight if scientific evidence.

And as far as your reasoning Pyritinol is effective in treatment RA and improving the quality of life in the patients. There is no study showing Pyritinol to be toxic, causing serious or lasting damage to the body.

But if you wish you can take Vincamine instead to get the desired effects you are looking for.


#7 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:44 PM

I will give Pyritinol a try at low doses.

#8 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 07 May 2005 - 09:01 PM

I decided against Pyritinol, but I did purchase Ortho-Mind and it has just arrived. (Relentless Improvement is great)

Is it safe to take 3 capsules at my age?

BTW: Should I refrigerate it?

#9 thehawk

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 0

Posted 01 June 2005 - 06:46 PM

Exigentsky you seem to be a very intelligent young man or woman, I'm 28 years old and if i knew then what you know now i would not take anything. I think you should be very carefull is all, I think you may have a mental edge on 80% of the people your age already. Then again I know nothing about these nootropics, and LifeMirage seems to now a ton.Good luck with it all.

TheHawk

#10 johnmk

  • Guest
  • 429 posts
  • 4

Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:21 PM

I suggest proceeding with LifeMirage's advice. It has done many people good here, and many more who benefit directly from his professional practice. The fact that he's recommending substances that aren't expensive, aren't patented, etc., in my mind further illustrates his credibility.

#11 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 01 June 2005 - 11:35 PM

Exigentsky you seem to be a very intelligent young man or woman, I'm 28 years old and if i knew then what you know now i would not take anything. I think you should be very carefull is all, I think you may have a mental edge on 80% of the people your age already. Then again I know nothing about these  nootropics, and LifeMirage seems to now a ton.Good luck with it all.

                                          TheHawk


IMO, it is intelligence itself that drives one to better himself intellectually. It is quite simple, the positive feedback the environment provides to intelligent people in the form of school results, a mental edge in discussions and so on drives them to try to become even smarter. An obvious example of this is sports. Those that are good will want to practice more and they will get even better while those that are less skilled will usually give up and hence the gap between the two grows larger. Hence, not trying to better myself through nootropics, or other methods defies my very nature.

Of course, I will heed your advice as well and will always proceed with caution and skepticism. I am now only taking 2 Ortho-Mind capsules with 310 mg of Alpha-GPC and a multi-nutrient supplement. I have already decided against Piracetam and I will continue to evaluate my current regimen for efficiency.

Thank you for your comments though.

The fact that he's recommending substances that aren't expensive, aren't patented, etc., in my mind further illustrates his credibility.


True, but of course, it is not as if he is not biased either. Nootropics are important to his career as well as relevance and hence he will favor them. He has nothing to gain from nootropics having a bad reputation, but he has a lot to lose. (he is working on a book about nootropics whose sales may depend on how attractive and credible nootropics appear to the public) Furhtermore, as many car commercials emphasize the prospect of buying a new car (often by making it a social status symbol or associating other traits of the person with it (hyperreality)) over the exact brand, so too LifeMirage aims to help spread the use and improve the reputation of nootropics in general. Simply because one does not recommend a specific brand is not proof of impartiality.

All I am really trying to stress is that while LifeMirage is helpful and probably honest, he cannot be considered impartial on the matter and hence we cannot raise his credibility on accounts of impartiality.

#12 wannafulfill

  • Guest
  • 275 posts
  • 4

Posted 02 June 2005 - 01:46 AM

Something tells me his success doesn't depend on his book sales...

#13 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 02 June 2005 - 01:53 AM

I was not claiming that. I only said that he will naturally be in favor of nootropics. It is impossible to be impartial about something you are actually promoting through books, forums and other mediums. In addition, he also has practical interests in the success and efficacy of nootropics in the form of self relevance and in terms of financial matters. My whole argument is that we cannot raise LifeMirage's credibility on the basis of impartiality because he does not endorse a specific brand due to other factors.

#14 thehawk

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 0

Posted 02 June 2005 - 02:35 AM

I feel that nootropics are for the long haul, like myself I'm intrested in them to help me at the poker tables. I may spend 8 hours at a table and it gets to be hard to stay on your A game, so i think they should be used when needed not as a normal part of life. Should athletes use steroids just because it without a doubt makes them better.Its a matter of opinion in my book. You sound like you my be the next chemist how creates the new super smart drugs. I was just saying never take something unless you feel you really need it to inhance your life.What smart drugs would you suggest for my poker problem I'm looking for alertness and adrenalin blocking properties.

Good Luck, TheHawk

#15 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:33 AM

I understand what you're saying, and respect your opinions. (though I do not think nootropics are analogous to steroids) However, most nootropics are not going to be efficient unless used for the long haul and theoretically they should not simply bring you back to your A game, they should allow you to become better than you can ever be without them.

As for Poker, I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm qualified to give you recommendations. I'm also a newbie to nootropics.

#16 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 02 June 2005 - 05:38 AM

True, but of course, it is not as if he is not biased either.


Yes I am there are many compounds called "nootropics" that I would never recommend anyone. I based my opinion on studies, personal use, and my experience with people on them for the past decade.

Nootropics are important to his career as well as relevance and hence he will favor them.


No specific class of compounds are "important" to my "career". My focus is to improve people's health and inform them of credible information in any matter of health, it could be diet, vitamins, nootropics, or NLP. Enhancing health is what I favor.

He has nothing to gain from nootropics having a bad reputation, but he has a lot to lose. (he is working on a book about nootropics whose sales may depend on how attractive and credible nootropics appear to the public).


My book is about the brain, while there is a chapter on nootropics it is not the focus. Also I have no interest in making money from this book, my main interest is putting the info out there, including my name as a writer.

Furhtermore, as many car commercials emphasize the prospect of buying a new car (often by making it a social status symbol or associating other traits of the person with it (hyperreality)) over the exact brand, so too LifeMirage aims to help spread the use and improve the reputation of nootropics in general. Simply because one does not recommend a specific brand is not proof of impartiality.


I encourage people to understand the many ways they can protect their bodies and brains. While I expect some people for whatever there reason may not trust me, I don't appreciate comparing me to a car dealer.

All I am really trying to stress is that while LifeMirage is helpful and probably honest, he cannot be considered impartial on the matter and hence we cannot raise his credibility on accounts of impartiality.


No need to raise an issue with me personally, but feel free to intelligently debate the credibility of my statements.

Yours In Health

#17 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 02 June 2005 - 05:59 AM

I personally think it is highly unlikely for someone so knowledgeable about nootropics, studying nootropics, and promoting nootropics to be completely impartial about the subject. (even when trying to be impartial)

I am not attacking you personally and have gained nothing but excellent knowledge from you, however I feel that I would be lying if I wrote that you are totally impartial.

BTW: This should not really be something so surprising, almost no one can be totally impartial on something. Life experience, and other factors will most certainly influence him or her.

#18 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 02 June 2005 - 06:22 AM

I personally think it is highly unlikely for someone so knowledgeable about nootropics, studying nootropics, and promoting nootropics to be completely impartial about the subject. (even when trying to be impartial)

I am not attacking you personally and have gained nothing but excellent knowledge from you, however I feel that I would be lying if I wrote that you are totally impartial.

BTW: This should not really be something so surprising, almost no one can be totally impartial on something. Life experience, and other factors will most certainly influence him or her.


Well I am guilty of being biased about enhancing health, online it seems is mostly about nootropics, while in my life cancer, diabetes, and other conditions is my focus. I promote (To contribute to the progress or growth of) more than just nootropics. I realize you are very young and this is new ground for you (and you should be proud to have an interest in your health), but my interest is providing factual data on any compound , diet, and tech shown to benefit the body and brain so that we may all have a chance to have longer, healthy, smarter life's.

#19 mnosal

  • Guest
  • 123 posts
  • 1
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 02 June 2005 - 12:00 PM

I don't think he needs "smart drugs" at 17yrs old, if anything the tone of his posts inclines me to recommend "smart-ass" drugs instead ;)

#20 thehawk

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 0

Posted 02 June 2005 - 02:07 PM

The kid is just smart and knows it . Thats just good old confidence. I think he has debated his side well and with no insults to LifeMirage. If anything I think he has show LifeMirage much respect in his posts.Well once again i Know nothing about this new age stuff lol. Good Luck All.
TheHawk

#21 exigentsky

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • -2

Posted 09 June 2005 - 11:36 PM

I have taken my first dose (400 mg) of Pyritinol today, I will report my experiences next week.

#22

  • Lurker
  • 1

Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:16 PM

It is a safe compound.

It has been studied in healthy people with no side effects.

Your fears are based on a handful of people over probably 500,000 or more people who have used it with no problems?

Yet you consume foods, breathe air, and drink water full of toxic compounds everyday without that fear?

Seriously your fear is not based on the weight if scientific evidence.

And as far as your reasoning Pyritinol is effective in treatment RA and improving the quality of life in the patients. There is no study showing Pyritinol to be toxic, causing serious or lasting damage to the body.

But if you wish you can take Vincamine instead to get the desired effects you are looking for.



Pyritinol is a dangerous drug with numerous reported side effects associated with organ toxicity (1). It has been banned in the UK. More importantly, the mechanism by which pyritinol mediates its cognitive modulation effects, an increase in extracellular ATP (2), has been found to act as a neuron apoptosis mechanism (3).

(1) http://bmj.bmjjourna...ll/328/7439/572
(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm....3&dopt=Abstract
(3) http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

#23 opales

  • Guest
  • 892 posts
  • 15
  • Location:Espoo, Finland

Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:22 PM

It is a safe compound.

It has been studied in healthy people with no side effects.

Your fears are based on a handful of people over probably 500,000 or more people who have used it with no problems?

Yet you consume foods, breathe air, and drink water full of toxic compounds everyday without that fear?

Seriously your fear is not based on the weight if scientific evidence.

And as far as your reasoning Pyritinol is effective in treatment RA and improving the quality of life in the patients. There is no study showing Pyritinol to be toxic, causing serious or lasting damage to the body.

But if you wish you can take Vincamine instead to get the desired effects you are looking for.



Pyritinol is a dangerous drug with numerous reported side effects associated with organ toxicity (1). It has been banned in the UK. More importantly, the mechanism by which pyritinol mediates its cognitive modulation effects, an increase in extracellular ATP (2), has been found to act as a neuron apoptosis mechanism (3).

(1) http://bmj.bmjjourna...ll/328/7439/572
(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm....3&dopt=Abstract
(3) http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Right on Prometheus!

#24 uniquenutrition

  • Guest
  • 155 posts
  • 0

Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:51 PM

J Hyg Epidemiol Microbiol Immunol. 1983;27(4):373-80. Related Articles, Links 
Brain maldevelopment and delayed neuro-behavioural deviations, induced by perinatal insults, and possibilities of their prevention.

Benesova O.

Noxious insults interfering perinatally lead to disorganization of normal perinatal brain development characterized by growth acceleration and intensive histogenesis and known as a sensitive "vulnerable" period of CNS development. Thus induced abnormities, sometimes very discrete, give rise to functional pathology which becomes apparent gradually during maturation as neurobehavioural deviations. For the study of these pathogenetic processes, two experimental models were established. Rat was chosen as an advantageous model animal since the "brain growth spurt" occurring in man in the third trimester of gravidity is shifted postnatally in this altricial species. Prolonged neonatal malnutrition (days 1-40) lead in adult rats to behavioural abnormities (hyperactivity, stereotypy, decreased adaptability, aggressivity) associated with biochemical and electrophysiological alterations in the brain. But this multifactorial and long-term insult was not suitable for more precise analysis. Therefore short-term inhibition of protein synthesis was induced in 7-day-old rats by cycloheximide which resulted in delayed behavioural deviations (hyperactivity, decreased habituation, learning deficit, motor incoordination) connected with permanent morphological, biochemical and endocrinological alterations. These models were used for testing brain maldevelopment-regulatory action of nootropics. Pyritinol administered for 7-10 days following the noxious intervention prevented the brain maldevelopment and functional disturbances in both experimental models. Favourable effects of early and long-term pyritinol treatment on neuro-psycho-pathological sequels of perinatal distress were confirmed in clinical controlled prospective study of 128 high-risk newborns.


And yet safe enough for newborns?


Sincerely Steve Sliwa


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#25

  • Lurker
  • 1

Posted 07 March 2006 - 12:11 AM

Hold it right there buddy...

An analysis of the study that you quote above:

Model organism: rat

Hypothesis being tested: pyritinol administration may prevent brain maldevelopment in newborn rats

Experiment: simulate brain maldevelopment in newborn rats by administrating cycloheximide which inhibits protein synthesis on 7-day old rats. administrate pyritinol for 7-10 days after to compensate for protein synthesis inhibition

Results: according to the criteria by which brain maldevelopment was measured in rats the administration of pyritinol reduced brain maldevelopment

Comments: without a copy of the full study one cannot qualify the validity of the brain maldevelopment criteria used. Also without the full study one does not have access to the discussion which should suggest other reasons by which pyritinol may counteract the effects of cycloheximide.

of note: in the mammalian model of brain development the number of neurons and their axonal connections are generally at their peak at around the time of the newborn. It is by a process of selective apoptosis (neuronal death) that the brain is "chiseled" away into its mature form. Therefore any agent that inadverdently destroys brain cells - such as pyritinol has been proven to do - during this developmental stage may in fact have no significant side effect at this stage. It is also well known that even human newborns demonstrate an extraordinary ability of regeneration. This is not to be confused with agents that act to alter development during embryogenesis such as teratogens.

Further studies by the same lead author (Besenova) seem to indicate that the mechanism by which pyritinol may mediate its effects may be associated with decreasing the rate of hypoxia-induced damage (1) in dopaminergic neurons.

The use of this study to support LM's advice on the safety of pyritinol: irresponsible and incompetent. Aside from this study and the one cited below a search of the literature has indicated no further support for the notion of using pyritinol as a protective agent in neonates to compensate for a maldevelopment event. Numerous studies from numerous authors, however, provide extensive evidence for organic and neural toxicity of pyritinol administration.

(1) http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users