A few personal thoughts...

LifeMirage - that Bruce Klein myspace page was not a good idea. First of all, you cannot find that in google by searching for "bruce klein", so how did you find it? It strongly suggests that you created it yourself, and I'm kinda shocked.

The rest is childish bickering.

Xanadu, up until a few days ago I would have been inclined to agree with you. Leadership voted to remove the role of Advisor of Nootropics, which essentially changed LifeMirage from "Advisor - Supplements and Nootropics" to "Advisor - Supplements".

However, LifeMirage has abused his moderation powers here at ImmInst to remove posts both by himself and by other members of leadership, in an effort to twist the available facts on record to make himself look innocent. For such abuse of power, his leadership privileges have temporarily been suspended. He has also been deleting posts on other websites for similar reasons, though we don't have control over those actions. However, they don't speak well of LifeMirage's intentions.

This is now well beyond "childish bickering". LifeMirage is acting in a manner completely unbecoming a member of leadership. In fact, in addition to abuse of moderation powers, he is repeatedly engaging in ad hominem attacks, and he has on more than one occassion threatened legal action against ImmInst and/or its leaders. I cannot discuss leadership actions currently under deliberation and/or open for voting, so I can't say more than this.

Adam has just contacted Lee Crost, which anyone can verify by calling (***)***-**** and upon speaking with the "real" Lee Crost, Adam asked if he had an internet presence. He replied no. According to Lee, Edward has him as a consultant. Adam has provided links to threads where Edward claims to be Lee, and Lee will be posting here later today to clarify the issue. If not, he will at least contact Edward. We understand this is a loss to the community, clarifying these facts. Moving forward we feel the institute will benefit. Once again, we highly suggest a member of leadership call (***)***-**** right now to verify this information with Lee himself. He is a pretty friendly guy. Also: we highly suggest leadership lock Edward's editing abilities as soon as possible.

Edited by tradewinds, 01 March 2006 - 09:04 PM.

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While there may have been elements of "mud-throwing and wrestling", I still maintain this discussion is very important. Understandably all this is somewhat inconsiderate towards LifeMirage, however, a lot of this (but not all, Bruce did seem to be on a bit of a witchhunt IMO) is caused by his very own actions. Most of the confusion (and most of this thread) could have been avoided by LifeMirage being more open, yet he DELIBERATELY chose to mislead the community by denying any knowings of the poster in Internet known as "Edward", while it is now clear he has known him all along. This is suspicious the very least, especially considering that it (apparently) seems that he has previously stated him as being his patient but now is claiming he is his co-worker. He has also portrayed himself, if not explicitly then implicitly at least (by leaving essential information out), as an MD treating thousands of patients with nootropics following clinical procedures, when in fact he now says he is an unlicensed MD working in an over-the-counter healthfood store. He has stated on many occations being in his mid-thirties which is just irreconcilable with his claim of earning an MD in 1989, he has then changed this to being "well beyond mid-thirties" but still refuses to reveal his exact age. While earning his Advisor status, he denied any affiliation with the industry, while now admitting to work in a supplement company which is one the premier nootropics providers (at least on some categories) in the US and also consulting multiple nootropics providers.

While I do not have a "grudge" againts LifeMirage, I do and always have disagreed with LifeMirage on his (in my view) indiscriminate representation of nootropics and supplements, which is in direct conflict with the view virtually all medical & neuroscientists and practitioners in both respective fields hold. In fact, I think his biggest "misportrayal" was formulated excellently by Adam (through Tracewinds):

Through your portrayal of nootropics, individuals may think they are effective for those in full cognitive health, which has never been conclusively proven.

While people do make their own decisions, it is always difficult for nonspecialist evaluate the scientific literature as a whole, which is exactly the reason people seek advice in the first place. Because it is fairly easy to present literature in way to corroborate one's own views, it is essential that the credentials and motives of the people providing advices are intact. This is the reason I have such great interest towards this thread, well, that and my childish mind willing to play Internet detective.

Oy.

This is very disconcerting. If this is true, and LifeMirage is caught in a lie, it will only be one more piece of damning evidence in a growing mountain.

I feel uncomfortable moving on this new information without first discussing with leadership. For now I must treat it as unverified, no offense to tradewinds. However, I'm not dismissing it either.

Adam has just contacted Lee Crost, which anyone can verify by calling (773)477-!(#$ and upon speaking with the "real" Lee Crost, Adam asked if he had an internet presence. He replied no. According to Lee, Edward has him as a consultant. Adam has provided links to threads where Edward claims to be Lee, and Lee will be posting here later today to clarify the issue. If not, he will at least contact Edward. We understand this is a loss to the community, clarifying these facts. Moving forward we feel the institute will benefit. Once again, we highly suggest a member of leadership call (773)477-!(#$ right now to verify this information with Lee himself. He is a pretty friendly guy. Also: we highly suggest leadership lock Edward's editing abilities as soon as possible.

*jaw drops* [:o]

Edit by jaydfox: partially redacted Sherwyn's phone number.

Edited by jaydfox, 22 March 2006 - 03:31 PM.

Adam has just contacted Lee Crost, which anyone can verify by calling (773)477-!(#$ and upon speaking with the "real" Lee Crost, Adam asked if he had an internet presence. He replied no. According to Lee, Edward has him as a consultant. Adam has provided links to threads where Edward claims to be Lee, and Lee will be posting here later today to clarify the issue. If not, he will at least contact Edward. We understand this is a loss to the community, clarifying these facts. Moving forward we feel the institute will benefit. Once again, we highly suggest a member of leadership call (773)477-!(#$ right now to verify this information with Lee himself. He is a pretty friendly guy. Also: we highly suggest leadership lock Edward's editing abilities as soon as possible.

WOW. If this is true.. I maintain my earlier position on police investigation, especially if it turns out verification implied by account Unique Nutrition (Steve Sliwa) was deliberately false. Hmm, LifeMirage=Edward Younan=Steve Sliwa?

Edit by jaydfox: partially redacted Sherwyn's phone number

Edited by jaydfox, 22 March 2006 - 03:30 PM.

What about the accounts that provided the external verification? Should we freeze them also, maybe just in case?

#1 police dont care about the internet
#2 PWNT

Bruce did seem to be on a bit of a witchhunt IMO

I know that some may have seen it this way, but my first duty is to protect the Institute. The situation, as it unfolded, gave me greater and greater reason to investigate. Now, I'm convinced that misrepresentation has occurred and that LM stepping down from ImmInst Advisory was the best outcome.

I'm sure LM will eventually come to see how he was risking the Institute and I'm confident we'll be good buddies after he starts telling the truth

Most credit is due to Simon Drake and Adam Kamil for being diligent and persistent.

ajnast4r,
What is PWNT?
I did not see this coming. I'm interested to read the leadership's response.
Brandon

PWNT = pwned = owned. Basically means, beaten in a severe manner, or in this case, caught.

However, LifeMirage has abused his moderation powers here at ImmInst to remove posts both by himself and by other members of leadership, in an effort to twist the available facts on record to make himself look innocent.

Because I believe that the deliberate destruction of information (especially history) is immoral and something to avoid (hence, the value of saving every life as a record of history), I encourage the Leadership to not delete information on this topic.

If nothing else, in 1000 years I might want a record of how my peers acted. This is similar to eBay's 'reputation' ability.

edit: I'm suspicious that "Lee Crost" was not upset that he was being mimicked for authority. As well, who deleted the employee information on the Sherwyn website?

I was suspecting it still in the back of my mind despite my convoluted theory, but.. four external verifications, one by a company with huge stake to lose? I'm NEVER retorting to Occam's Razor again if this holds out.

Because I believe that the deliberate destruction of information (especially history) is immoral and something to avoid (hence, the value of saving every life as a record of history), I encourage the Leadership to not delete information on this topic.

If nothing else, in 1000 years I might want a record of how my peers acted.  This is similar to eBay's 'reputation' ability.

edit: I'm suspicious that "Lee Crost" was not upset that he was being mimicked for authority.  As well, who deleted the employee information on the Sherwyn website?

I agree, leadership might also want to consider eliminating editing of this thread to maintain the original content posting.

Four?

I count tradewinds saying that Sherwyn has been contacted. Am I missing something?

edit: X-post with focus

FYI - (773)477-!(#$ is Sherwyns number.

I'm half tempted to grab Virago and go up to Sherwyns and see what I can find out, it's not that far from me.

Edit by jaydfox: partially redacted Sherwyn's phone number

Edited by jaydfox, 22 March 2006 - 03:32 PM.

I've have called and confirmed the information provided by tradewinds. To readers of this thread: As a member of ImmInst leadership I ask you to please refrain from calling the phone # listed above. We do not want to harrass or in any way disrupt the regular business activities of Sherwyns. Thanks, Don.

I was suspecting it still in the back of my mind despite my convoluted theory, but.. four external verifications, one by a company with huge stake to lose? I'm NEVER retorting to Occam's Razor again if this holds out.

Y'know what, I think I agree.

Four?

I count tradewinds saying that Sherwyn has been contacted.  Am I missing something?

edit: X-post with focus

No I mean external verifications that LifeMirage is Lee Crost by four different ImmInst members (but possible same person) each having +50 posts. One was by representative of Unique Nutrition, which I would think has a ton to lose if caught in a lie in a matter of such graveness.

Man I still have hard time believing this, and I think your notice about Lee Crost not being upset is indeed suspicious.

I've have called and confirmed the information provided by tradewinds. To readers of this thread: As a member of ImmInst leadership I ask you to please refrain from calling the phone # listed above. We do not want to harrass or in any way disrupt the regular business activities of Sherwyns. Thanks, Don.

Well, that is that, now can we get back to nootropics?

This is the biggest thing I have encountered in my ten years in Internet.

I met Life Mirage @ Sherwyns in Chicago sometime back in the summer of 2004.  (The user Virago was also there).  It was a chance meeting, we were browsing the store, and I started asking questions about supplements for ADD to one of the people there.  He knew far more about nootropics than I did, and I mentioned this great forum that I learned alot from online...Imminst.  He mentioned he was familiar with it, and his  user name - LifeMirage.  I was floored, because of how much I had learned from his posts...and wished I could have tape recorded our conversation, because of how much I learned, and more importantly - how much went over my head. 

Hope this helps.

Dude, I read this again, Jolly does not say that Lee Crost is LifeMirage but that LifeMirage works in Sherwyn's, which we new about Edward also but only later. We had the answer right in front of our face. Jolly, would describe LifeMirage as about 25 years old rather than at least forty, maybe more?

I think your notice about Lee Crost not being upset is indeed suspicious.

Don?

I've have called and confirmed the information provided by tradewinds. To readers of this thread: As a member of ImmInst leadership I ask you to please refrain from calling the phone # listed above. We do not want to harrass or in any way disrupt the regular business activities of Sherwyns. Thanks, Don.

To prevent Lee Crost or Sherwins any further embarrasement I will go back and edit out the phone numbers, and will ask jolly to do the same.

Edited by tradewinds, 01 March 2006 - 09:16 PM.

Well, that is that, now can we get back to nootropics?

Hear, hear!

Not that I frequent the nootropics forum, but...

This is the biggest thing I have encountered in my ten years in Internet.

1. You're clearly missing all the porn!
2. Distributed Computing ... hello?
3. My free email service now give me 2GB!

(Unless you mean scandal. Yeah, I agree. The only other scandals I've seen on the internet are the brutalization of copyright laws)

I think your notice about Lee Crost not being upset is indeed suspicious.

Don?

Hey QJ, before I comment any further I will need some time to confer with leadership

I've have called and confirmed the information provided by tradewinds. To readers of this thread: As a member of ImmInst leadership I ask you to please refrain from calling the phone # listed above. We do not want to harrass or in any way disrupt the regular business activities of Sherwyns. Thanks, Don.

i also called. I can back this up as well.

This is very disappointing, and i owe quite a few apologies

In my defense I think I actually called at almost the same time as you did Don [lol]

Don: Dude - it's the day and age of Blackberrys! I want instant gratification of all my questions! Why isn't there a Wiki yet?

(I'm kidding, take your time, I think that Opales and I are just in this for the intellectual masturbation)

Edit: I think people should stop calling now!

Edit: Have we confirmed that the number is Sherwyn's? Couldn't we just be calling Adam? [/paranoia]

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

Edit: Have we confirmed that the number is Sherwyn's?  Couldn't we just be calling Adam?  [/paranoia]

Don't mess me up