Open Invitation to Steve Sliwa and LifeMirage

Deleted by whom? Steve has deleted two of his own posts in this thread, as I recall when I checked the logs after I removed his ability to edit or delete his own posts.

Deleted by whom? Steve has deleted two of his own posts in this thread, as I recall when I checked the logs after I removed his ability to edit or delete his own posts.

Thats what I would like to know. Now I dont remember if it was in this thread or one of the others about LM, but the thing pissed me off a lot, to the point that i posted this:
http://www.imminst.o...t=0

With all the bullshit that has been passed, I dont understand why two of my posts have been deleted and by which mod. I was simply commenting that good intentions werent followed by prompt action of the leadership.
Anyway, it doesnt matter anymore. My point in my reply was that I believe there are other mods that abuse deleting/editing of posts, everywhere and anytime.

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This is the full version of the "Pre-publish: Vote to ban LifeMirage" thread that I published two days ago.

Okay, for the Full Members who have been waiting for this:
LifeMirage = Misrepresenting?

I understand membership has it's benefits, but can basic members get access to these threads? It might help to silence the "stick it to the man" types [thumb]

This is the full version of the "Pre-publish: Vote to ban LifeMirage" thread that I published two days ago.

Okay, for the Full Members who have been waiting for this:
LifeMirage = Misrepresenting?

I understand membership has it's benefits, but can basic members get access to these threads? It might help to silence the "stick it to the man" types [thumb]

The "LifeMirage = Misrepresenting?" thread is going to be published in the next 24 hours most likely. The vote to publish it hasn't completed yet, but it looks set to pass at the end of the voting period (less than 12 hours from now).

As for publishing the vote to ban LifeMirage in the open forum, that would take another vote. We'll need to review it before we can publish it, because once it's in the open, google and other search engines will pick it up.

Unique Nutrition claims to have been in business since 2000. However, the records of state of IL state that it was incorporated in July 24 2003. I could not find one reference prior to August 2003 in google groups to uniquenutrition or "Unique Nutrition" (with capital letters, there were "unique nutrition" references prior to 2003 too but they never seemed to refer to any company as far as I could tell but rather to well, unique nutrition). Steve made his first posts on August 4 2003, incidentally only 1,5 weeks after the company was set up according to records. Was the company by some other different name prior to the incorporation or did they discover Internet only after three years of being in business? I'm sure Steve or someone else could easily clarify this matter to me.

Edited by opales, 16 March 2006 - 11:24 PM.

Unique Nutrition claims to have been in business since 2000. However, the records of state of IL state that it was incorporated in July 24 2003. I could not find one reference prior to August 2003 in google groups to uniquenutrition or "Unique Nutrition" (with capital letters, there were "unique nutrition" references prior to 2003 too but they never seemed to refer to any company as far as I could tell but rather to well, unique nutrition). Steve made his first posts on August 4 2003, incidentally only 1,5 weeks after the company was set up according to records. Was the company by some other different name prior to this or did they discover Internet only after three years of being in business? I don't see much sense of lying in a matter like this, other than perhaps trying to pretend as an established company and the tendency of a pathological lier. I'm sure Steve or someone else could easily clarify this matter to me.

And also has anyone tried to determine to owners of Unique Nutrition? I'm sure that would clarify the situation even more. Since they are an Inc., the ownership structure might be public records (not necessarily, however, they are public in some countries), but might not be available in the internet, so one might have to actually call someone. The IRS gets their info from somewhere. If no one knows how to determine the owners of some company, ask the secretary of state office or something?

I think what we saw in the IL record (Edward Younan) is what the state has on record. The IRS would have to be given current info with any particular filing, including signatures of the officer(s) approving the tax returns. Unless, of course, they filed online.

The BBB (which has correct and up to date information) would seem to disagree.


Sincerely Steve Sliwa
President
Unique Nutrition
www.uniquenutrition.net
1-877-278-4942

Let's see what the BBB have to say on the phone about all of these irregularities, shall we?
May be a good idea to keep the Xanax and Inderal handy.

Well the BBB currently says Steve Sliwa is the President.

Edward, there comes a point of dimishing returns in your particular method of mitigating the loss in credibility that you have brought on to you and your company through long standing deceptive practices. That point was passed sometime in February of this year. If you are interested in running a legitimate business operation I suggest on validating the purity and quality of your products and providing a commercialy viable customer service instead of these juvenile and transparent attempts to displace responsibility. Until you do this, and have the maturity to be forthcoming on the errors of your ways, you will continue to flounder until you run out of operating capital and then quietly disappear..

The Internet is becoming increasingly unforgiving on shoddy operators.

UN was looking for reps in each state. I wonder if that is a sign of prosperity or desperation.

Hard to say. I've been seeing a lot of signs of desparation from UNI, but Steve could of course spin each sign as a sign of prosperity. Some of the signs can't really be spun any way but bad, though. One example is Edward's continued infantile behavior, such as coming in under the alias "nootropicgod" and pretending to be Adam Kamil. For another example of infantile behavior, consider this post over at BrainMeta, where LifeMirage posted a "warning" not to buy products from Adam's company, because Adam's company isn't with the BBB. The irony was that UNI wasn't a member of the BBB either, and only had a BBB report because of a customer complaint.

This should perhaps be a new topic, but it runs to credibility of UNI/Steve et. al. There is a thread on rec.drugs.smart where a Freddie Guzman is speaking as a representative of UNI. I asked Steve Sliwa if Freddie exists. He says that no such person works there. However at least one order taker (Aaron Ward) says that Freddie is part owner of UNI. Steve alleges that he's asked Yahoo to track down IPs to find and disable what he alleges to be a former, now disgruntled, employee. But what's really strange is that whatever Freddie says he will or not allow, it comes to pass that Steve (if he exists) does exactly as Freddie said he will or will not do, except there's a bit of a time lapse. It's like Freddie is calling the shots or that Freddie is yet another alias of Steve. Interesting that UNI should use AOL for email, even though they have a website. I tried sending mail to Aaron Ward at the address he gave me, aaronward@uniquenutrition-email.net . Well, Aaron didn't get the message and I had to send it using the AOL account.

Why should I care? Because I was played around with on an order for LEF products I placed with Steve (Freddie forbid the order, alas) over a two week window of lost opportunity. Also, if a vendor cannot keep its lies straight, can the products it sends in plastic bags and bottles be trusted? According to Freddie, only certain customers are permitted to look at the results of test results. However Steve constantly reminds us that he is a member of the BBB. Has anyone ever successfully filed a complaint and gotten favorable resolution from the BBB? The experience of myself, family and friends is the BBB stands for I'll CYA if you CMA.

The experience of myself, family and friends is the BBB stands for I'll CYA if you CMA.

[lol]

Wasn't it posted in the free speech forum that Sherwyn's has acknowledged that Lee Crost is Life Mirage on brainmeta and that he has an MD degree? That was the crux of the case against LM, saying he lied about his credentials. If there is no more dispute about that then the case fell apart. Is anyone going to apologise to LM?

Wasn't it posted in the free speech forum that Sherwyn's has acknowledged that Lee Crost is Life Mirage on brainmeta and that he has an MD degree? That was the crux of the case against LM, saying he lied about his credentials. If there is no more dispute about that then the case fell apart. Is anyone going to apologise to LM?

Posted by whom? When?

Posted by whom? When?

I remember reading something herein that the individual so named had an M.D. but did not have a license to practice. Of course I don't know if anyone has checked the Medical School (the Medical Boards as well, to see if there is such a person with a license to practice medicine. No, I don't have a URL to the post I read handy. Nor do I know that it was anything but assertion. No citations were given in the post (as in I checked with so and so medical school to verify...).

As I said, this should probably be in a new topic, but it does continue into the utter confusion about what is UNI, who is Steve, now who is the Freddie Steve denies exists but at least one of his employees says is part owner. All of this goes to credibility. If I receive a COA or other cert (and UNI reveals such certs very selectively), I would want anyone who deals with UNI to have full disclosure when buying stuff to put down one's gullet. The BBB does not certify supplements.

Title was "reply to full member forum"

Wasn't it posted in the free speech forum that Sherwyn's has acknowledged that Lee Crost is Life Mirage on brainmeta and that he has an MD degree? That was the crux of the case against LM, saying he lied about his credentials. If there is no more dispute about that then the case fell apart. Is anyone going to apologise to LM?

If the case fell apart then the Institute should immediately unspend his membership and reappoint him in leadership.

Just so you know Xanadu, I've spoken to Lee. When I asked him about being a doctor he said something about having a "medical background" but that he was not an MD. He really danced around the topic and said that Edward may have misrepresented him as a physician when they would share the same account. Why don't you give him a call at Sherwyn's yourself?

According to the only credible evidence and claims I've seen, Lee Crost probably went to medical school, and may have attended long enough to receive his M.D., but Lee was never licensed to practice. He went into alternative medicine before getting licensed, due to issues he had with the medical establishment (a situation I can respect).

However, LifeMirage was primarily an account used by Edward Younan, a twenty-something young man. LifeMirage was originally Edward's account, from before he met Lee Crost. Edward considered Lee Crost a sort of mentor. Both worked at Sherwyn's at one point in time. Steve Sliwa was involved as well, due to a business relationship with Edward and possible with Lee. (Additionally, IIRC, Steve worked at Sherwyn's as well, though I'm not positive on this last item.)

Edward Younan was the president of Unique Untrition for at least two years, three years if the Illinois Secretary of State's records are to be trusted. Steve Sliwa has since gained control of the company.

So in the sense that Lee Crost was an associate of Edward's and Steve's, and that the LifeMirage account was an amalgam of all three men, then yes, LifeMirage sort of had medical training, possibly an M.D. However, Edward was the original and primary owner of the LifeMirage persona; Edward was the perpetrator of retaliatory ad hominem attacks of a pornographic nature; Edward does not have an M.D.; and Edward was the reason that the LifeMirage persona was removed from leadership and subsequently banned.

I apologize if Lee Crost has been harmed in this process, due to his unfortunate association with Edward and Steve. I will not, however, apologize to the nebulous "LifeMirage" persona, until Edward and Steve come clean about their involvement and give reasonable assurances they no longer participate in the LifeMirage persona.

How fitting that this discussion is continued in the very thread where I called for such a coming clean.

I find it very difficult to understand why any reasonable person who has had an MD degree conferred, whether licensed to practice as physician or not would not be forthcoming with that information.

Remember Harold, that S.L. was another such individual. He had has reasons, though I don't recall what they were. Maybe just humility? Don't know. At any rate, there is no comparison between S.L. and LM, so I apologize to S. if he reads this and thinks I was making such a comparison. I wasn't.

So the original charge of "misrepresenting" is no longer the reason for the campaign against him but yet the jihad continues? Now, it's a nebulous mishmash charge claiming that Ed Younan is some sort of dirty businessman and since he was friends with mr Crost, that this is now the big problem. LM told us that he allowed E.Y. to use the LM account, I believe. Is that against the rules? I never saw such a rule. If it's against the rules it should be written down so people know what the rules are. It isn't fair to make up rules as you go along. Has Lee Crost broken any Imminst rules or any laws? Not just in someone's mind but as a point of fact? If not, then perhaps it's time to reevaluate what has gone on and to consider that a wrong was done.

But, much like in Bush's wrong headed campaign against Iraq, no such admission is forthcoming. Bush like certain Imminst members once he found out the original reason for going in was no longer valid (WMD's), made up a new reason (to bring democracy). Now the new reason is impossible but getting out is not apparently an option. So it is with LM's enemies. The original charge of falsely claiming to be L Crost and falsely claiming to have an MD degree has collapsed so we must make up something new to justify keeping on feeling and acting the same way. I do not know LM personally but from what I've seen all he's ever tried to do was help people. I never saw him follow anyone around the net harrassing them, for example. Jay, you seem to be the main diehard who wants to keep this going. Is it time to reevaluate?

Has Lee Crost broken any Imminst rules or any laws?

LifeMirage broke rules, and LifeMirage was removed from leadership and banned.

I don't care if it was Lee Crost, Edward Younan, Steve Sliwa, or the Easter Bunny who was using the LifeMirage account at the time. The LM persona was used, so the LM persona is held responsible. If Edward and Steve come clean about their involvement and give reasonable assurances, then the LM persona can be vindicated* on a going-forward basis. Steve and Edward have been given these opportunities all along and have not used them.

* Edit: And Lee Crost would have to come clean about his misrepresentation that he was licensed, when by his own admission he never was. He would also need to demostrate that he in fact received his M.D., or else come clean about misrepresenting that he had one.

Xanadu, you speak of LM like he is a person. He is not. He is a mask for someone we have yet to identify and who could be one of Lee, Edward or Steve. Putting the rhetoric and Bush metaphors aside, I find it rather remarkable, don't you, that an honest and reasonable person would not be forthcoming yet invest so much energy in deception?

Jay, you seem to be the main diehard who wants to keep this going.

I'm the main diehard? I'm not sure if that was meant to be a compliment or an insult, but it's patently false nonetheless. There were diehards on both sides of the issue—those who wanted to vindicate LM and those who wanted to see him come clean and/or prevent him from misrepresenting himself on other online fora. I was not in the former category, of course, but I was not the "main diehard" in the latter category either, by any stretch of the imagination.

But I'll take it as a compliment to the merits of the case that you thought my few words had such power and influence over the situation.

As for keeping it going, you're the one issuing a call for an apology, so you're the only one keeping this going.

So the original charge of "misrepresenting" is no longer the reason for the campaign against him but yet the jihad continues? Now, it's a nebulous mishmash charge claiming that Ed Younan is some sort of dirty businessman and since he was friends with mr Crost, that this is now the big problem. LM told us that he allowed E.Y. to use the LM account, I believe. Is that against the rules? I never saw such a rule. If it's against the rules it should be written down so people know what the rules are. It isn't fair to make up rules as you go along. Has Lee Crost broken any Imminst rules or any laws? Not just in someone's mind but as a point of fact? If not, then perhaps it's time to reevaluate what has gone on and to consider that a wrong was done.

But, much like in Bush's wrong headed campaign against Iraq, no such admission is forthcoming. Bush like certain Imminst members once he found out the original reason for going in was no longer valid (WMD's), made up a new reason (to bring democracy). Now the new reason is impossible but getting out is not apparently an option. So it is with LM's enemies. The original charge of falsely claiming to be L Crost and falsely claiming to have an MD degree has collapsed so we must make up something new to justify keeping on feeling and acting the same way. I do not know LM personally but from what I've seen all he's ever tried to do was help people. I never saw him follow anyone around the net harrassing them, for example. Jay, you seem to be the main diehard who wants to keep this going. Is it time to reevaluate?

As I said in my original post in this thread, perhaps this should go under a different topic. I have already read about the LM problems. I was pointing out yet another persona, this one on Usenet, which Steve denies exists but a member of his staff says yes, indeed, Freddie is part owner. I do not wish to engage in jihad. Frankly I don't care about the LM thing, except that here we have yet another controversy popping up about UNI and Steve's credibility. The writings of Freddie on rec.drugs.smart and the slight delay in Steve carrying out the vary things Freddie ordains, leads me to not believe that Steve and Freddie are not in association. It is almost like the words of my Catholic upbringing when quoting Jesus speaking to Peter: "Upon this rock (Peter) I erect my Church. As it is on Earth so shall it be in Heaven." For some strange reason Steve, who previously posted to rec.drugs.smart, can't bring it upon himself to post and say that "I am Steve, there is no Freddie associated with the company".

LifeMirage broke rules, and LifeMirage was removed from leadership and banned.

I asked before what rules he broke and was told the main charge was "misrepresentation" Doesn't that have to be proven? It's like if you accuse someone of stealing, it's not up to them to prove they stole nothing, it's up to the accuser to prove the crime. Where is the crime? What rules did he break and where is the proof he broke them? Far as that goes, I never saw any rules pertaining to misrepresentation.

I find it rather remarkable, don't you, that an honest and reasonable person would not be forthcoming yet invest so much energy in deception?

He sent copies of his diploma, I believe it was, and people said they were forgeries. Why is it he had to stand on his head to prove who he was when no one had any proof to the contrary? In this country at least, you are considered innocent until proven guilty. On Imminst, you are guilty until proven innocent, if someone makes an accusation and gets everyone worked up. That's how it seems to work. prometheus, how can you prove who you are and prove what education you have? What if people claim it's a forgery? He got kicked out, his paid for life membership taken away and all because he was supposed to have lied about being Lee Crost. The other things were just filler charges.

What rules did he break and where are these rules written? <-- answer that

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He sent copies of his diploma, I believe it was, and people said they were forgeries.

As far as I'm aware, LifeMirage sent copies* of Lee Crost's registration records at the medical school he attended. So:
A) it wasn't an M.D. "diploma" per se, and
B) you're still confusing Lee Crost with LifeMirage.

He got kicked out, his paid for life membership taken away...

His lifetime membership was not taken away: he was banned for a year, at which time he can petition for reinstatement.

* This is the part where we could add that the registration papers might have been forgeries, but I'll willing to entertain the notion that they were legitimate.