Continuation Thread for William (off topic from:)

Original thread


My last quote:


So, here you can argue freely.

-Infernity

infernity, it greatly disturbs me when I hear young Jews say they don't believe in God - especially when Israel is experiencing the problems it currently is. All Israel's problems are due to the people straying from the true God of Israel. I'm sure you know that this is what the Torah teaches and that's what history shows? You and inarchunite should very seriously rethink your positions on God's existence. Take a look at the literature at http://www.gnmagazin...itreq/index.htm. May be you could take a close look at The Middle East in Bible Prophecy.

It's hard to believe that you are living in Israel and don't have a Rabbi. You do keep the Sabbath and the other Holy Days God gave Moses to give Israel? From what I've read, this is the law the government of Israel enforces on the people today. I've read that if you drive your car in some places in Israel on the Sabbath you might get stoned. Isn't this true?

But I don't BELIEVE in it, even if I wanted so bad, it just makes no sense to me, It doesn't matter what you or anyone will say, my mind cannot find it logical, let this God persuade me otherwise, until then, no God for me.
I didn't choose to be a child to the Jewish people, so you can't blame it on me, I am a simple atheist.

Heh, I know this is what religious ones say, I noticed that the most familiar of poverty- are religious, how would you explain that? I would say, they have a LOT of children, and they have no money to feed them all, but what the hell do they care? It's a Mizva, so they will make kids, and think the more children they shall have, better their lives shall be, be then, there are more chances for their kids to die, and less place and food for all.... Common sense.

Hard to believe? Well, the great most of those who live here has no Rabbi, only religious ones do, and there are not too many.

Oh I enjoy it that I don't have to go to school or work, but do I do what I am supposedly supposed to do? Oh hell no, I do whatever I want, eat whatever I want, whenever I want to do it.

LOL no, since this is a DEMODRATIC country, we are allowed to do whatever suits us.

Heh there is a single place in Israel, a single neighborhood where it exists, where only fanatic religious FREAKS live. You don't have to drive on Saturday, you can just enter without the full costume of a religious Jew and you find yourself dead, this is FANATIC, this is WRONG, they KILL people just like this for DISAGREEING with them. How pleasing to God is this eh? This Neighborhood is of fanatic religious killers, if you want to commit a suicide, you can just enter as you are now. Is it right? NO.


-Infernity

Oh and moreover, I wouldn't like to marry a man who has several more wives but me, but hey according to the bible it is allowed, and why would the man disagree.... I don't want to walk with these stupid clothes on, I don't want to waste all my bloody day praying for a God that does NOTHING to improve my life, I am BUSY enough. I don't want to have a food limit for what I want to eat, unless it is for health, but then a doctor will tell me what to not eat. I don't want to be unable to use electricity on Saturday because we should "rest", laying on the couch with the TV on is very much of a rest... I don't think I should not eat in Yom Kippur because I need to suffer, I will choose when to fast, but since my weight problems are of underweight, not overweight, I most likely won't decide to do that. I don't BELIEVE in my heart in it, I never had the choice if to born to the Jewish people, if it was depended on me I was neutral, a spectator of the world, from an objective vista. I am on my own, and God makes absolutely no sense to me, not talking of it I would prefer the religions that have many Gods, a God for each thing, with beautiful stories of mythologies, where Gods wear the humane shape, and there were heroes, and all.
Don't tell me it's a shame, if it was true, God would kill me already, for I am his greatest foe. Navigating people away from him and those baseless beliefs, and I have LOGICAL explanations for why God does NOT exist, and why people DO believe in his existence.


-Infernity

So if God does what He says in Zechariah 12:10( http://www.biblegate...0;&version=64;) you'll be a believer then?



Maybe they should live on a kibbutz. Have you ever lived on one? Ever since I read The Children of the Dream (1969), by Bruno Bettelheim, I've been fascinated with the kibbutz. I've read that there are two research institutes in Israel devoted to studying the kibbutz and one here in the United States at Harvard. You ever considered studying the kibbutz?




Yea, it's hard to believe. I always thought there were a lot more religious there since the whole idea of Israel was a religious one from the very start. I did, however, read somewhere that the young were turning away from religion.



I agree with you it's wrong. Jesus taught that you had to be without sin yourself before you could stone someone else for it.



No, the Bible clearly doesn't allow it. God only gave Adam one woman and that was Eve. They were to be united and become one flesh according to the Scripture. See Genesis 2:20-24 ( http://www.biblegate...4;&version=64;) The practice in the New Testament of the Bible was monogamous marriage and prohibition against adultery clearly applies to prevent the taking of more than one wife.
I think the problem comes in where people see the Old Testament examples of polygamy and assume God approved of it when He really didn't. God only permitted it, like He permitted other sin, because the hearts of the people were hard. See Matthew 19:8 ( http://www.biblegate...20;&version=64; ). You don't want to get married to the right man and go live on the kibbutz where you'll practice all the latest ideas in longevity research and live happily ever after? Did you see the link to my post I gave inarchunite on this?



Did you read the article at http://www.gnmagazin.../gn65/earth.htm? How can you explain away the obvious existence of a God when the proof is in His creation. It's just something that can't be reasonably denied any longer. You are probably very young and haven't given this matter much thought or study.

This would be an absolute imposition towards it, the fact they have these tones of kids and all, not talking of it they can't enforce their laws there.

In fact I do now for...like 12 years.

Oh I studied in such extent it goes out of my ears and I can't wait to get out!
Amazing how one's secret is known to the entire Kibbutz members a day after, they gossip all day.

WRONG, the land of Israel among MAYBE, but the Zionism had in fact the exact opposite attitude from religious country and religious values, believe me I study the Israel history enough (and way beyond) for you to tell me I'm wrong on this.

I don't know where you read all these stuff, a religious family raises religious children, and none-religious families raise none-religious children.

Oh please I can't wait to get out of the kibbutz, out of this area (oh well now in war time, I prefer this area), and out of this country, I don't even want to remain in Israel, no, never did.
I try to spread here the idea of anti-aging, but people are so squared to what they have, those short pathetic lives that they find it so immoral, my ideas, they find me so eccentric, NO, I want to spread it OUT of here, to people who will support or at least listen, not some sheep's that follow their grand sheep leader that blindly rejects what I say!

Oh give me a break, you say God has created all, I say, that's the Universe. That's the same call it God/Universe/Mother Earth or Mr. Smith... The same way you can ask me, well then where did the universe come from, I can ask about your God, now if you say something like "God didn't want us to know" or "God's ways are secret" or "God can do everything", then this is a joke, because so can the universe, there are many phenomena that YET we have not discovered, same way in the past, lightning was some God's miracle. And so many theories exist f what everything is. Religon is opposed to many PROVED scientific things issues.
I have been giving only this issue more thought then you probably gave to eveyrthing you had seen in your life! I ask you to not doubt my mind and it's capabilities, mister William.

Now all the quotes from the bible tell me nothing, people wrote this, this is a history of the ancients, those who thought a lightning is a Godly essence, those who had distorted things, like every Historian does, according their liking, they were cave-people without too much of answers, and they wrote what they saw and completed what they DESIRED to, same way you desire to have this God now. They wanted HOPE, and they needed ANSWERS.
Don't bother giving me more phrases...

I told you, I am the greatest foe of "God", if he existed, I'd be dead.


-Infernity

Edited by infernity, 18 July 2006 - 07:02 AM.

Infernity, I am learning a lot about Israel life from your responses to william's misguided assumptions. Thank you very much, it is enlightening.



On a side note, it is interesting how many of william's core assumptions have been argued by people with more knowledge, or more study, on the subject (kibbutz living, Israel in general, the existence of God, cryonics, the Bible, etc.) than him, but yet his belief remains. William, you remind me of Colbert's character on the Colbert Report when he says "I'm no fan of facts", and other such nonsense, because you should hold on to your feelings (video clip showing what I mean, way hilarious by the way)

I figured you would eventually turn up to spoil an otherwise pleasant day Live Forever. It's very much a matter of opinion whether the people you mention have more knowledge than I do on the existence of God or the Bible. No doubt infernity would have more first hand experience with living in Israel and kibbutz life than I would. Being a young woman, I doubt she's read as much or thought as much about it as me.

I have read a number of accounts of people being dissatisfied with kibbutz life. That could be due to characterological problems or due to deficiencies in education that can be remedied in the future through a change in parenting practices and proper education. Conditions in Israel may change in the future - as I'm sure they will - making kibbutz living more attractive. Right now capitalism and its material pleasures holds sway.

infy

you know well to ignore william's jabbering
it seems you are indeed a strongminded woman who knows better than to subdue herself to a tedious dogma and pitiful blind belief.

"Conditions in Israel may change in the future - as I'm sure they will - making kibbutz living more attractive."

can't you even say 1 thing which is correct or has a considerable probability to occur?

most israeli kibutzs are in the process of privatization, in other words - disestablishment. Why? -communism does not work. Why? because there are capitalists out there to set your eyes to, and be envious at their affaires.


you still hold on to your blind belief, systematically dodging my question regarding the uniqeness of your chosen doctrine. Why? -because you lack the answer.

Please cease from trying to convert members of imminst to your pitiful clan of idol-worshiping and prayer. You may discuss your beliefs, or any other topic related to life extension - but do not for a moment assume you can reprimend or preach Infernity for her lack of piety (that had of course orginated out of choice).

(inarchunite)


Your correct that was a poor choice of words on my part. It was wrote in haste. I am certain things will change in Israel as well - as the rest of the world - making kibbutz living more attractive. Better?



I'm not an admirer of capitalism or materialism. I leave that to the capitalists, petty bourgeoisie, and lumpen proletariat.



It's the other way around. I presented you and the others with a most logical and well reasoned argument with a link to a piece of literature that just couldn't be disputed. Not even Live Forever attempted to answer after he said he would read the article.



Why? Are you worried somebody might in fact be converted? I thought infernity has such a strong mind? I think she can fend for herself.

Edited by william, 18 July 2006 - 12:51 PM.