Does hell give life meaning?

I've noticed that when theists criticize atheism, they get hung up on the idea that in the absence of gods, life lacks an externally imposed "meaning," usually interpreted as the "eternal destiny" (ED) chosen for you by a god.

Maybe someone can clarify this for me, because if christians (especially Calvinists) believe that their god has chosen "hell" as the default ED of the overwhelming majority of humanity in the afterlife, then I see the following implication:

Major premise: The ED god chooses for you gives your life meaning.

Minor premise: God chooses hell as your ED.

Conclusion: Hell gives your life meaning.

So when the christian threatens an atheist with hell, should the atheist respond with, "Hey, if I go to hell, my life will have meaning after all. Thank you, god"?

No he should tell the Christian to judge not lest he be judged. In wanting to "be like Jesus" the Christian thinks they will get to live in the glory of heaven but they will actually die for "our sins". Afterall Jesus was the great "fisher of men". Be sure to thank them in advance. Being born over and over again and dying for the sins of every civilisation in the universe one-by-one would be a hellish eternity.

Does hell give life meaning?

maybe for lunatics. (i.e. religious peoples.)

for me pleasure gives life meaning, both sensual forms as well as simple joys like a goal reached or a truth realized.

Major premise: The ED god chooses for you gives your life meaning.

I do give life meaning don't I

I keep seeing "ED" and thinking Erectile Dysfunction - well, no wonder it's such a pissy god.

Life gives life meaning.

My purpose in life is to live. Living is the act of conscious participation in life and through living to become one with life.

Erectile Dysfunction probably does equal a form of Eternal Damnation Kylyssa, at least for some people. [lol]

Sometimes I wish Eternal Damnation could be invoked on an ad-hoc basis. I tire of picturing animals and fat trolls and stuff to stray my mind when im in the sauna.

I've noticed that when theists criticize atheism, they get hung up on the idea that in the absence of gods, life lacks an externally imposed "meaning," usually interpreted as the "eternal destiny" (ED) chosen for you by a god.

Maybe someone can clarify this for me, because if christians (especially Calvinists) believe that their god has chosen "hell" as the default ED of the overwhelming majority of humanity in the afterlife, then I see the following implication:

Major premise: The ED god chooses for you gives your life meaning.

Minor premise: God chooses hell as your ED.

Conclusion: Hell gives your life meaning.

So when the christian threatens an atheist with hell, should the atheist respond with, "Hey, if I go to hell, my life will have meaning after all. Thank you, god"?

Stephen wrote>

advancedatheist

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, (From Proverbs Chapter 9)

I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
(words spoken by Jesus from Luke Chapter 12)

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(words spoken by Jesus from Matthew Chapter 7)

You can see that Hell is where you don't want to go. It is a place of punishment. Most people end up there.
But this is about you. I will say one thing now. Don't try to be good enough to be allowed into Heaven. That is
impossible.

-Stephen

Hahaha LOL !!

advancedatheist, kylyssa and Laz, you gave me a laugh ^^ I needed that.


Anyways, I think it has no sense at all, all this hell heaven thing

-Infernity

No he should tell the Christian to judge not lest he be judged. In wanting to "be like Jesus" the Christian thinks they will get to live in the glory of heaven but they will actually die for "our sins". Afterall Jesus was the great "fisher of men". Be sure to thank them in advance. Being born over and over again and dying for the sins of every civilisation in the universe one-by-one would be a hellish eternity.

caston

Jesus died for the sins of everyone. Christians don't die for the sins of anyone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

This was written of Jesus, by Isaiah, long before the first century.

From Isaiah Chapter 53

http://www.biblegate...r=53&version=49

-Stephen

Quoting scripture outright doesn't make it fact. I could quote ad nauseum refuted scientific claims about the world being flat but referencing falsehoods do not make them so.

centurion

I was just trying to explain one of the basics of Christianity.

-Stephen

Ah, I apologise. We get our share of fire and brimstone here so sometimes I jump the gun and think we're getting another dose of the hellfire.
Sorry about that

centurion

I understand.

-Stephen

I think hell is misunderstood. Where the hell did the concept of hell come from anyway? Wasn't it made up my someone in medieval times ? Did Jesus ever mention anything about hell?

I believe in an after life, but I have a lot of trouble believing there is a place that is hell, except maybe Louisiana.

Did Jesus ever mention anything about hell?

How stupid of me. I should have known nobody around here would know the answer to that.

If you mean hell as in the place we fear is where people go when they die, then yes it does motivate. The fear of death can give life a sense of urgency, but can also inspire a feeling of futility when the inevitability of doom is overwhelming. It inspires both great genius and madness. None that I know of but the trickster Gods have ever been able to avert death, but I never say never. If you mean hell as in the myopias that are sometimes cast upon the world of the living, then the only meaning it gives life is insanely mean. Sure, living hells can motivate the drive towards improvement more than a lazy day in paradise, but a world ruled by the devil's pitchfork only masters more gloom and doom than it does not.

Did Jesus ever mention anything about hell?

How stupid of me. I should have known nobody around here would know the answer to that.

Check the sermon on the mount in King James Version

http://www.biblegate...:27;&version=9;

Hell doesn't give life meaning, on the contrary it is anti-life and the concept itself can make life seem almost futile. Hell is a state of mind. Don't give it much thought or it will become real for you. Just live and love, don't worry about anything else. Hell was meant to instill fear, if you love, you don't fear. If you love you don't do harm and thusly do not have to worry about it in the first place. Open your mind and forget about hell.

I think hell is misunderstood. Where the hell did the concept of hell come from anyway? Wasn't it made up my someone in  medieval times ? Did Jesus ever mention anything about hell?

I believe in an after life, but I have a lot of trouble believing there is a place that is hell, except maybe Louisiana.

Stephen wrote>

So you really think everyone goes to the same place? Or are you saying something else here?

-Stephen

I believe that when we die that's it. Nothing

I believe that when we die that's it. Nothing

Are you positive or just pretty sure?

-Stephen

I can't be positive that what I believe is true, but I am positive that the above is what I believe In my opinion the notion of an afterlife is a construct of human arrogance, we see ourselves above death in a way because it is the one thing that can truly bring us down to earth if you'll excuse my rather morbid pun. To accept that we die and rot away like animals is something the human ego is a hard time doing.

"Check the sermon on the mount in King James Version"

My problem with this is that King James wasn't there when Jesus said it. This sermon was translated hundreds of years later, as was everything else in the bible. I think therein lies the problem. Do we have 100% agreement with the translation?

Even today people speaking the same language read the same passage in the bible and come up with different explanations for what it means. Whenever you try to translate something like the bible from one language to another there's always problems.

This has always been the root of my problem with religion. I do have a problem with religion, but I still belive in a afterlife. I just don't think we are getting the full story.

(centurion)
I can't be positive that what I believe is true, but I am positive that the above is what I believe In my opinion the notion of an afterlife is a construct of human arrogance, we see ourselves above death in a way because it is the one thing that can truly bring us down to earth if you'll excuse my rather morbid pun. To accept that we die and rot away like animals is something the human ego is a hard time doing.

centurion

centurion wrote> I can't be positive that what I believe is true...

Stephen wrote> At least you have *some* doubt.

centurion wrote> To accept that we die and rot away like animals is something the human ego is a hard time doing.

Stephen wrote> Actually many find the belief in there NOT being a afterlife very comforting. No consequences
for *any* thing they might do. Think about it. If in *this* life you knew that if you went over the
speed limit you would never get a ticket. If you broke any law, you would never even have
to appear in a courtroom or pay a fine.

-Stephen

I believe that when we die that's it. Nothing

I've never heard of any convincing evidence for "nothing", but all my life I've heard of very interesting evidence for something. There's a lot more evidence for something than nothing.

If you believe it's nothing, your belief is kind of your religion. In other words you just blindly believe.

"Check the sermon on the mount in King James Version"

My problem with this is that King James wasn't there when Jesus said it. This sermon was translated hundreds of years later, as was everything else in the bible. I think therein lies the problem. Do we have 100% agreement with the translation?

Even today people speaking the same language read the same passage in the bible and come up with different explanations for what it means. Whenever you try to translate something like the bible from one language to another there's always problems.

This has always been the root of my problem with religion. I do have a problem with religion, but I still belive in a afterlife. I just don't think we are getting the full story.

biknut

The King James Version and the New American Standard Bible are much the same. (I like modern English myself, so I
take from the NASB usually).

From NASB:

16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

http://www.biblegate...er=3&version=49
================================================================================
From KJV:

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

http://www.biblegate..... ;&version=9;

===============================================================================

-Stephen

Stephen wrote>


"Why do the smoke-stacks have those things like balconies around them?" enquired Lenina.

"Phosphorus recovery," explained Henry telegraphically. "On their way up the chimney the gases go through four separate treatments. P2O5 used to go right out of circulation every time they cremated some one. Now they recover over ninety-eight per cent of it. More than a kilo and a half per adult corpse. Which makes the best part of four hundred tons of phosphorus every year from England alone." Henry spoke with a happy pride, rejoicing whole-heartedly in the achievement, as though it had been his own. "Fine to think we can go on being socially useful even after we're dead. Making plants grow."

What is above is from A Brave New World (Chapter 5). There is more to this
life than just becoming fertilizer in the end.

http://www.readprint...7/Aldous-Huxley

(back in a few days)

-Stephen

(stephenszpak)
So you really think everyone goes to the same place? Or are you saying something else here?

Ok, this is what I think based on everything I've learned.

I believe when you "die" as we like to call it, we start out in a place the Catholics call purgatory. I think Buddhists have a similar belief too. It's neither here nor there, but closer to here. Many times the person doesn't even know anything has happened. This state doesn't seem to be much fun, because the "souls" that find themselves in this place don't seem too happy about it. If you lived a "good" life then it won't be long before someone comes for you to take you where you need to go. Usually the people that come will be your relatives or friends, because you will recognize and trust them when they help you get where you need to go. If you were a shit bag in life it may be a long while before anyone comes. Sometimes people don't want to go because they are upset about something that happened here. If they don't want to leave they won't be made to leave right away, but in time everyone has to go. How you lived your life will have everything to do with where you will end up, and how the people there will treat you. If you were very bad, you can expect to be treated badly. Everything there will be very much like here. Don't expect it to be much different there, but people in charge there know everything about here.

Eventually you will get to come back into this world again. The way you lived your life the last time will have a lot to do with how your new life will be set up for you. Most of the people you know in life will be the same ones you knew in the last life, but everyone will have a different relationship to you. Hopefully you'll do better this time. It you are a better person, you will improve your afterlife. Eventually if you become good enough you won't have to come back here.

This is I guess, the reason for religion, to help you learn these things faster, but I don't think this is about religion.

I'm pretty carzy aren't I?

So in answer to the original question, no I don't think hell has anything to do with it.