Christian Communism

Below is an unfinished draft of a letter I plan to send to a Christian brother and pastor who publishes a newsletter. We've discussed the issue of a Christian commune without private property and without a monetary system on a number of occasions. He doesn't believe the Scriptures call for the abolition of money during the Millennium and believes that silver and gold will be used in place of the monetary system that's currently in place.

Norm's a pretty good pastor just the same. He doesn't force you to believe what he does. You can still be a part of his church even if you have a different understanding than his. We also disagree on vegetarianism and the Scriptures. He plans to make his church nondenominational to permit diversity of beliefs and opinions within the Sabbatarian tradition.

I would like your opinions on this letter. Would you live in a Christian commune if it would cut the risk of premature death, lengthen your life substantially, and provide the ideal environment for living forever? To live out lives that are dramatically longer than today, will take close, caring, communal relationships where the children and the aged are highly esteemed and well provided for.

In my opinion, it's going to take the right environment to practice longevity and immortality. You can tinker with the biology of aging all you want, but if the environment and human character are not hospital and they defeat you in the end what's the use of it?

I hope to improve my writing skills in the near future so I can write a lengthy article or even a book raising this matter.

Dear Norm,

As a result of our discussions at Bible study and your suggestions, I've put in writing my reasons for believing money - including the use of gold or silver as such -  will be abolished in the kingdom of God during the Millennium. I believe the use of money will be and should be abolished right along with privately held property during Christ's Millennial reign and everything shared. The reasons for my belief are as follows:

1) The early Christian Church shared everything they had without exception. Acts 2:44 says "[a]ll the believers were together and had everything in common", and Acts 4:32 says "[a]ll the believers were one in heart and mind, No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had." No exceptions were made for money. It was considered the same as any other property.

2) Just as Jesus Christ is our role model or example, so is the early Christian Church in Acts. The Church in Acts was following Christ's teachings and example when it gave up its personal property. Jesus taught that in order to attain perfection it was necessary to give up personal property and follow Him. Even His disciples did this. Matthew 19:21,27. The money Judas carried was communally held, not belonging to anyone person. John 12:5,6; 13:29. I believe it to be significant that Judas stole from the communal purse and sold Jesus out for money. Matthew 26:14-16. Jesus also taught to "be on your guard against all kinds of greed", and "a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." Luke 12:15. What better way to follow this teaching and be on guard against greed than to build your life in a communal setting without personal property or money? 

3) Apostle Paul also understood that it was desirable and righteous to be content with only the basic necessities and that money and riches were a temptation and a trap for the unwary and weaker brethren. 1 Timothy 6:6-10. I'm sure he learned this from Christ's disciples and from the example of the Church.

4) Jesus and His followers were clearly ascetics who had no respect for wealth, the luxuries of life, or property and money. See, for example, Matthew 4:8-10 (Jesus refused the riches of the world offered to Him by Satan early in His Ministry), Matthew 11:7-9 (Jesus recognized that fine clothes were not worthy of a true prophet from God), Matthew 8:20 (Jesus had no home or place to lay His head), Luke 6:30 (Jesus considered property and money to be of so little value that He teaches that it be given away to anyone who asks for it and that it not be demanded back when taken away from you); Luke 4:18 (Jesus preached good news to the poor and release for the oppressed; no similar message was given to the rich); James 2:5 ("Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?"); Matthew 3:1-4; 9:14; Luke 1:80 (John the Baptist lived in the desert, dressed simply, ate frugally and fasted regularly); Matthew 4:1-3; 6:16 (Jesus practiced and taught fasting); Acts 13:1-3 (The early Christian Church fasted). 

5) Money and personal wealth is recognized as a source of great unhappiness and serious problems by today's world. It's a perpetual lament frequently appearing in popular literature, in plays, in poetry, and in songs.

6) Its long been the dream of Marxist communists to establish a fully developed communist society without privately held property and without a monetary system where the profit motive will not be able to engender greed, create conflict, waste resources, time and efforts better spent on constructive improvement and development of Christian character necessary for attaining a long, healthy and happy life. See, for example, the World Socialist Party website at http://www.worldsoci...s_socialism.php. The Marxists, however, wanted this Utopian society without God, without Jesus Christ, and without the early Christian Church in Acts as models and guides. This is where they failed.

7) God's law and Christ's teachings are perfectly suited for strengthening and maintaining a communal society without private property or money. Marriage and family life will be strengthened instead of weakened by the negative influence and stress that money normally puts on the marital bond and other human relationships. It is well recognized that the key to a stable society is strong marriages that produces well adjusted children. Under communal conditions, Children will be better able to internally assimilate God's law and Christ's teachings due to there brevity and simplicity as a opposed to the large body of complexly written laws that make up our modern American jurisprudence which is largely inherited from the Roman Medieval school of law. The Roman Medieval law is incompatible with God's law.

8) We are in great need of communal societies without private property and money that will strengthen marriages and family life as a contrast to the false monastic models of communal living that do not strengthen marriages and families or provide for procreation. The early Christian Church in Acts did not segregate on the basis of gender, and families with children received the full blessing of the communal lifestyle. The monastic model of communal living needs the complete antithesis of a true model of Christian communal living to be successfully defeated.

9) Marxist historians and philosophers, like Gustav Bang, have recognized Jesus to be a socialist agitator who, in behalf of the poor, denounced wealth, private property and money in favor of communal sharing, and have recognized the early Christian Church in Acts to be a model of Christian communism that was destroyed by the medieval exploiting church before it could be fully develop into a mature Utopian society. See Crises In European History, by Gustav Bang, at http://www.slp.org/p...crises_bang.pdf (pages 22-25).

10) Money is not necessary to conduct transactions for the goods and the necessaries of life amongst communal societies. All transactions can be conducted through a system of barter negotiated and approved by elders' councils acting democratically and with Christ's teachings for guidance.

11) The Jubilee law described in Leviticus 25:8-17 would only limit the extent of greed, not eliminate it. A society without privately held property and a monetary system would prevent the possibility of exploitation and oppression and would greatly reduce the potential for greed beyond that of the Jubilee law. God's intent in establishing the Jubilee law was to put limits on and to rectify the taking advantage of one's neighbor during business deals over land or property. In a society practicing communally held property, this would never be a problem.

12) Ezekiel 45:9-12 does not point to or require the use of money during the Millennium. The shekel, the gerah, and the mina was established and used as money before Ezekiel's time and was used during Christ's time without any success at limiting greed, exploitation, and oppression. All God was calling for here was that the wealthy princes of Israel use accurate measures and weights and an accurate system of money which apparently they were not doing. To adequately prevent greed, violence, and oppression due to private property and money, will require living and sharing according to the example Jesus and the early Christian Church in Acts set for us. The sharing of all property and labor will render money useless and unnecessary.

13) Micah 4:4 does not indicate that there will be privately held property during the Millennium as many claim. This particular prophetic announcement is vague and must be interpreted in light of Christ's teachings and example and in light of how the early Christian Church actually lived. In many cases, people living communally consider the communal property to be their own - even though it's shared property. In fact, the most logical way to provide everyone with a vine and fig tree to sit under would be through the communal sharing of the agricultural property and the necessary labor.

14) When Jesus used money or gold in His parables or in metaphor, this didn't mean He approved  of money, private property, or wealth. He was only trying to get His point across to His audience using language and ideas that were readily understandable to the people.

15) It is clear by the Scriptures that when you are loving your neighbor and your brother properly you are also loving Jesus Christ as well. See Matthew 25:31-46. What better way to love your neighbor and your brother with the same strength as you love God as commanded (Matthew 22:36-40), than to share everything with him so he's never in need? Also see 1 John 3:17.

16) It will take a fully developed communal society, without the stresses, the conflicts, and the unnecessarily excessive labor hours that private property and the accumulation of money typically produces, to practice the ascetic Christianity needed to practice calorie restriction diets, strict vegan diets, and periodic fasting to achieve optimal health and longevity that is prophesied in Isaiah 65:20. Medical research shows that a substantially healthier and longer life can be obtained through calorie restriction diets, vegan diets, and periodic fasting, but that these severe diets are difficult to practice under the stresses and negative influences of our so-called modern day, enlightened society. For more information on the health benefits of calorie restriction diets, vegan diets, and periodic fasting see http://en.wikipedia....rie_restriction, http://en.wikipedia....Veganism#Health, http://en.wikipedia....native_approach, http://carcin.oxford...t/full/23/5/817.

17) A well developed communal society will be necessary to abolish punitive legal practices and punitive child rearing practices. Practicing God's law and Christ's teachings to the fullest extent possible within a communal setting without private property and money, will be the only way possible to attain a way of life where punitive laws and other punitive practices will not be necessary. Apostle John teaches us that, in order to be made perfect in love, fear - and the punishment associated with it - most be driven out. 1 John 4:18. Psychological research has shown the harmful side effects of punitive practices on the human psyche and its inability to control human behavior. For more information on the harmful effects of punitive practices see http://www.ncbi.nlm....1&dopt=Citation, http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12734459, and http://www.imminst.o...=0.

18) Science and technology would be better practiced and utilized in small, simple communal societies without private property and money. Small communal societies sufficiently spread out but well connected through a computerized Internet network would be the ideal way to keep these simple societies progressing on course and in harmony with one another. 

19) A fully developed communal society without privately held property or a system of money will be the answer to crime and violence, terrorism, and global warming. As the destruction caused by global warming and other disasters prophesied in the book of Revelations pick up, it should become obvious that the only solution is small, well spread out, communal settlements with God's law and Christ's teachings as the foundational ideology.

Possibly you can publish this letter in your newsletter and address the points I make. I realize that communism is a distasteful subject. Our capitalist/materialist society has long been opposed to it. The media bombards us with the idea that more money and more luxury items is the ideal state of existence. But this clearly wasn't the Lord's way. The Scriptures can't be denied.

For more information about communal living you can go to the websites listed below.

Christian Communism at http://en.wikipedia....stian_communism

International Communal Studies Association at http://www.ic.org/icsa/about.html

Federation of Egalitarian Communities at http://thefec.org/about/

The International Communes Desk at http://www.communa.org.il/e-about.htm

Damanhur at http://www.damanhuri...Det.asp?IDArt=6


                                                          Your brother in Christ,
                                                                  elijah3

I wouldn't want to live in a commune, much less a religious commune. I love my technology too much.

I might visit a commune for a short period just to see what it was like, but I wouldn't want to stay there. (kind of like how camping is fun, but I wouldn't want to live in the woods, or vacationing is fun, but I wouldn't want to live in a hotel room)

If that is something that makes you happy, though, elijah, I am all for you doing it! You live in a commune already, correct? (I thought I remembered you saying that before)

In regards to living in a commune or isolation from the "real" world....well I am actually for it. Only for a short period of time though. Living in isolation, away from all the daily distractions, allows one to re-establish their relationship with thought. To me it's sort of like defraging your mind. I have been in retreat a few times. In these retreats you have to follow rules. No talking, no contact an no communication in body, mind or speech with others. No eating after 12 noon. No jewellery or luxuries. No rituals. All this for 10 days whilst meditating for 13 hours each day. It's a shame though because after the retreat you are generally thrown back into the 'real' world and quickly fall back into old habits. Maybe this is different to what a commune is though.

They should have 10 days retreat that teaches you how to retreat in the real world. Such a retreat would be filled with distractions and luxuries however you are not allowed to use them. For example, instead of meditating for 13 hours a day you learn to sit in a room of people in active conversation with out talking. Additionally you would be forced into confronting situations but are not allowed to react with emotion. Of course you can react but you can only act with logic in a calm fashion. the rules are simple: No anger, no sadness, no excessive happiness or over endulgence. You must remain equanimous and on the middle road whilst being tested to go either way.

I guess this is what should be like. Unfortunately though, from my experience, most environments are not conducive and open enough. That's my experience though

In regards to living in a commune or isolation from the "real" world....well I am actually for it. Only for a short period of time though. Living in isolation, away from all the daily distractions, allows one to re-establish their relationship with thought. To me it's sort of like defraging your mind. I have been in retreat a few times. In these retreats you have to follow rules. No talking, no contact an no communication in body, mind or speech with others. No eating after 12 noon. No jewellery or luxuries. No rituals. All this for 10 days whilst meditating for 13 hours each day. It's a shame though because after the retreat you are generally thrown back into the 'real' world and quickly fall back into old habits. Maybe this is different to what a commune is though.

What if you make your own jewellery, or are involved in healthy rituals? I know very well where you're going with this retreat idea, but I would argue on a more integrated daily lifestyle including many of these factors (obvioulsy not the no talking thing, but some of these factors, notably meditation and relaxation).

This would be similar to your situation as well Elijah, as if Christians had a commune, or at least more integrated in their beliefs per capita, I imagine it would be a utopia for some.

I wouldn't want to live in a commune, much less a religious commune. I love my technology too much.

How about sharing the technology?

If that is something that makes you happy, though, elijah, I am all for you doing it! You live in a commune already, correct? (I thought I remembered you saying that before)

Kinda. The church owns a big chunk of a closed down Air Force Base. The facilities are not in the best of condition. We hope to turn this place into a fully developed and functioning religious commune similar to a kibbutz.

Right now there's only 5 of us living here on a regular basis. During the 8 day Feast of Tabernacles last year, there was something like 30 people here. I'm told that close to a 100 have been here for past Feasts of Tabernacles. The people that belong to this very small Sabbatarian church are ordinary working class people spread out across the United States and Canada. They only come here periodically for Sabbaths and Holy Days.

Elijah, some questions:

Without money, how will you pay for ongoing costs, land taxes and council rates, emergency health care, Internet access, etc?

How will you deal with conflict?

How will you deal with members who do bad things? Will you use the law of the Bible from the Old Testamant?

Will you cooperate with external law enforcement officials?

In terms of food production, take a look at permaculture which may give some ideas for sustainable community farming. Also see forums.permaculture.org.au for a good discussion forum on permaculture. Many of the principles may be relevant to your idea, including care for the land, promotion of self-reliance and community responsibility for accesses to the resources necessary for existence, and the setting of limits on consumption and the giving away of surplus, and the contribution of surplus time, labor, money, information, and energy to achieve the aims of earth and people care.

What makes you think I am having a go at you?

I recently watched that news video where the catholic woman was making an unnecessary complaint about the chocolate Jesus you posted. See http://www.cnn.com/2...olate.jesus.ap/. Because you responded so quickly, I thought you had somehow tagged your post so it would automatically appear when I finally posted this thread. But I see I'm wrong and you are really up early this morning with the practical jokes.

Elijah3, in this forum I don't really care how it reflects on my character. Actually, I think that it is quite consistent with who I am i.e a good reflection of "my character". In general, I'm a joker. I don't mean to offend though.

Are you sure? I realize you're a young cat - and I'm sure I was worse when I was your age - but you should consider being a more sensitive individual. I'm sure your wife would probably agree.

With all the things you got going for you, you should always try to set a positive example so as to be a better influence on people - especially young people. You would be a much more effective advocate for longevity and immortality this way.


Addendum 4/6/07: Thanks for removing the chocolate Jesus Zoo. Now I can show this thread to my elderly mother.

Edited by elijah3, 07 April 2007 - 01:25 AM.

Never. I am an individual and I make no compromises on that.

In regards to living in a commune or isolation from the "real" world....well I am actually for it. Only for a short period of time though. Living in isolation, away from all the daily distractions, allows one to re-establish their relationship with thought. To me it's sort of like defraging your mind. I have been in retreat a few times. In these retreats you have to follow rules. No talking, no contact an no communication in body, mind or speech with others. No eating after 12 noon. No jewellery or luxuries. No rituals. All this for 10 days whilst meditating for 13 hours each day. It's a shame though because after the retreat you are generally thrown back into the 'real' world and quickly fall back into old habits. Maybe this is different to what a commune is though.

Just think of all the meditating and fasting you could do living in a well run communal society 24/7 and how this would impact on your longevity.

They should have 10 days retreat that teaches you how to retreat in the real world. Such a retreat would be filled with distractions and luxuries however you are not allowed to use them. For example, instead of meditating for 13 hours a day you learn to sit in a room of people in active conversation with out talking. Additionally you would be forced into confronting situations but are not allowed to react with emotion. Of course you can react but you can only act with logic in a calm fashion. the rules are simple: No anger, no sadness, no excessive happiness or over endulgence. You must remain equanimous and on the middle road whilst being tested to go either way.

I guess this is what should be like. Unfortunately though, from my experience, most environments are not conducive and open enough. That's my experience though

How about 30 to 60 day retreats to well run religious kibbutz like I'm talking about to start people thinking about adopting this way of life permanently. They have a program in Israel where visitors can live and work on a kibbutz for a time. They should have similar programs everywhere.

This would be similar to your situation as well Elijah, as if Christians had a commune, or at least more integrated in their beliefs per capita, I imagine it would be a utopia for some.

Yea, the Bible prophesies the Millennium to be a utopian society for the poor (Luke 4:18 "good news to the poor"), but this will not bar wealthy people or scientists from giving up their property and money and joining when they see the wisdom and longevity benefits to living this way. You should give the communal way of life serious consideration. Wouldn't this fit your socialist ideology?

How many do you expect will live there full time when you get it fixed up, elijah?

Also, I would be interested in your answers to basho's questions about how you will pay taxes and things if you do not plan on using money.

Also, how do you connect to the internet. and have electricity? (satellites? solar power?)

Apart from the religious aspect, I find this an interesting way of living. I have read and seen some things on tv about the hippie communes in the 70s, and how there are some communes like that still around today, where people grow all their own food, and live off of solar power and things so that they don't pollute.

Elijah, some questions:

Without money, how will you pay for ongoing costs, land taxes and council rates, emergency health care, Internet access, etc?

Right now, we have no choice but to use money. We regularly receive donations from church members and others who read the newsletter.

My hope is that we eventually reach the stage where there will be no need of a monetary system. This has been the communist dream for some time and it's mine too.

How will you deal with conflict?

How will you deal with members who do bad things?

Will you use the law of the Bible from the Old Testamant?


Will you cooperate with external law enforcement officials?

Informally and nonpunitively when it does occur. We hope to reach a stage of Christian development where misbehavior will be extremely rare. Old Testament prophesies say we will reach this stage. See, for example, Ezekiel 11:19-20; Jeremiah 31:33. I believe this will occur naturally as a result of practicing Christ's teachings and God's law within a communal setting without private property or money.

Research on Israel's kibbutzim back in the 1960's and 70's show the potential for success in this regard. In the book Kibbutz Goshen: An Israeli Commune , the author points out that the kibbutzim have a low incidence of crime and delinquency. The author says:

"The characteristics of kibbutz organization decrease the likelihood that anyone will be brought to the attention of law enforcement agencies. First, the scope for crime on the kibbutz is narrow. There is little money and no banks, there are no deserted places to mug people, no one has access to funds long enough to embezzle them, drug addiction is expensive, etc. Since everyone knows everyone else, secret plotting would be very difficult. Secondly, the kibbutzim are very jealous of their autonomy and reputation. One way to protect this is to deal with possible criminal activities internally and, more often than not, informally. On Goshen, petty thefts, cases of vandalism, minor assaults and a 'peeping Tom' were dealt with internally. The property was returned, the vandalism repaired, the quarrels patched up, and women were warned about the harmless 'peeping Tom' and simply drew the curtains before undressing."

“... the fact that no delinquency, sexual aberrations or child neglect are to be found within its domain, that the incidence of emotional disturbances is low, that the physical, intellectual and ethical standards of the pupils are commendable, is a source of encouragement and evidence of substantial achievement. It is also our warrant for attempting to present communal education to a wider public.”

In terms of food production, take a look at permaculture which may give some ideas for sustainable community farming.  Also see forums.permaculture.org.au for a good discussion forum on permaculture.  Many of the principles may be relevant to your idea, including care for the land, promotion of self-reliance and community responsibility for accesses to the resources necessary for existence, and the setting of limits on consumption and the giving away of surplus, and the contribution of surplus time, labor, money, information, and energy to achieve the aims of earth and people care.

I'm going to check this link out after I get some sleep. Thanks for postings it.

How many do you expect will live there full time when you get it fixed up, elijah?

Something like 500 people we thought would be best.

Also, I would be interested in your answers to basho's questions about how you will pay taxes and things if you do not plan on using money.

I answered basho. I got up too early this morning and had to catch a nap.

Also, how do you connect to the internet. and have electricity? (satellites? solar power?)

I'm not sure on that, but I think our Internet service comes by cable. Norm, our pastor, is holding Passover services elsewhere this year so I can't ask him. He handles all the computer stuff. Once we're over our legal and financial problems, we plan to put in solar panels and wind generators. Before I got here, there was a small solar generator, but it burned up in a fire that badly damaged one of our buildings.

Apart from the religious aspect, I find this an interesting way of living. I have read and seen some things on tv about the hippie communes in the 70s, and how there are some communes like that still around today, where people grow all their own food, and live off of solar power and things so that they don't pollute.

I think some of the secular communes in the Federation of Egalitarian Communities were formerly hippie communes from the 1960s and 70s.

Never. I am an individual and I make no compromises on that.

Never say never. Right now you're too young to make a full and final decision. You might find later on in life that Christian communism with longevity as its goal to be a worthwhile pursuit.

basho, thanks again for posting that link to permaculture. It will keep me busy with some serious reading. I found a link at the bottom of the page to EcoCommunalism that's also very interesting.

Never say never. Right now you're too young to make a full and final decision. You might find later on in life that Christian communism with longevity as its goal to be a worthwhile pursuit.

You have some excellent intentions and ideas about setting the mental dissertation between these two belief systems to rest. If all christians were like you, the religous base would be a much, much better, more respectful place. (If only your good will and motivation were pointed at science rather than christianity!!)

Personally, let me just say that I'm a 110% believer in biology, technology, transhumanism and everything associated with creating a better, more advanced future where we can all live better, more intellectually rewarding lives. The feeling I think that most people in this forum (correct me if I'm wrong) is at first rejection. Transhumanists base their ideas off of the fact that absolutely anything is possible, and having any limits would be a burden.

I'm not sure how feasible this type of "middle ground" for christianity and transhumanism/atheism etc. could ever be. People who support transhumanism and the like (definitely including myself) generally feel very, very strongly about what they believe in.

I only wish a good christian like yourself could somehow show the christian public that we are all humans with only a difference in beliefs. I think that if you're willing to discuss this possible getaway, we should be too.

Thanks for the positive response biologic! I plan to continue to try and get my message of how the right practice of Christian communism will bring great rewards to people seeking a much longer and happier life. I believe it will become more obvious as time goes on that a right practice of Christian communism is the most practical and realistic means to achieve the transhumanist dream.

hmmm.......communism and christianity.......?


those two ideas are solely responsible for untold millions of deaths through the ages, I can only hope and do my best to ensure that neither progress any further and the final nail is driven deep into the coffin of both before they beguile anyone else with false promises and craftiness.
religion has always attracted the poor and destitute as well as the aged, leading them to believe their miseries will end once death takes hold of them, what craftiness of the charlatans who proclaim this nonsense, their goal being to multiply the anguish of the impoverished a thousandfold and increase their wealth and power.
communism is no different, it attracts the impoverished and destitute, those for whom "sharing" means taking from others that which they themselves cannot aquire through ambition or cunning.
the wealthy would never desire such a state.

I assume you're not a wealthy man Elijah? if you were, your views would be quite different I can assure you.





since you're unfamiliar with Marquis De Sades views on religion and communism, here are a few for you.

All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one.


Lycurgus, Numa, Moses, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, all these great rogues, all these great thought-tyrants, knew how to associate the divinities they fabricated with their own boundless ambition.



The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind.



if all men are equal in the eyes of a divinity who made them,why are they not all in agreement as to the particular crimes which are to cost man this everlasting suffering? endless would be the task of listing the various opinions of pagans, jews, mohammedans, christians, concerning the means to employ to escape eternal woe and to attain felicity; endless the task, end yet more cheerless, of describing the puerile and ridiculous formulas and devices invented to those ends

karomesis, not to defend elijah here, but I don't think he is advocating communism in the traditional sense of the word. He doesn't mean to say that politically he supports communism ("forced communism" as it were), but instead he is talking about people who volunteer to come to a commune and work towards the benefit of everyone else there. ("voluntary small scale communism")

Now on the religious aspects, I will not disagree with you too much.

Communal living is fairly popular out in New Mexico. Ran into a mother on the plane back from visiting her daughter in a commune. The mother had concerns going in and left ecstatic about the place.

I would do it for month or so. Sounds like fun. Ultimately I'd prefer to live in a progressive, future oriented community. My worst fear would be living inside Costco in the year 2505.

Never. I am an individual and I make no compromises on that.

Never say never. Right now you're too young to make a full and final decision. You might find later on in life that Christian communism with longevity as its goal to be a worthwhile pursuit.

While I respect your own thoughts on this subject, let me add my own full and final, and slightly aged, "never".

Questions in the form of "would you do" something if it meant the realization of some valued goal are interesting thought exercises at best, but generally useless because they are not required to adhere to reality. While a Christian commune *might* "cut the risk of premature death, lengthen your life substantially, and provide the ideal environment for living forever", the same *might* be said of other options like hedonistic hotels in the Caribbean or Quark's capitalistic bar on Deep Space Nine. Fortunately, we can ignore all these options and depend instead on science and technology, with promising approaches like calorie restriction, AGI-accelerated research, fast DNA sequencers, and rapid sifting through small-molecules.

I admit that there are living conditions and lifestyles that can seriously contribute to less life span; however, adjustments in lifestyle have not been shown to radically extend life (as opposed to minor adjustments in lifestyle that have been shown to moderately extend life). Calorie restriction is a promising dietary change that might result in up to a 10-15 years of additional life (and potentially several decades of healthier life), but even that is not radical enough when the goal is physical immortality. How can joining a Christian commune compare to calorie restriction, and how do either compare to the advent of technologies that lead to physical immortality?

I have complete confidence in science and technology and can therefore cast off any consideration of lifestyle changes such as commitment to a Christian commune.

How can joining a Christian commune compare to calorie restriction, and how do either compare to the advent of technologies that lead to physical immortality?

A well run Christian commune will provide you with the necessary environment, motivation, and character to practice stringent diets such as calorie restriction, periodic fasting, and veganism to the fullest. Jesus Christ, His disciples, and the early Christian Church were all ascetics who advocated and practiced fasting. They're excellent role models for a community desiring to achieve an extended lifespan through calorie restriction, fasting, etc.

Because of the shared labor and the nonmaterialism of ascetic Christian communism, there should be much less work and stress which is necessary for successfully practicing stringent diets for longevity. You'll have more time to study, meditate, exercise properly, and commune with like-minded individuals.

God's law when correctly followed in light of Christ's teachings will bring about strength of character and great wisdom which are absolutely necessary for using science and technology safely. If science and technology continue to be practiced as today, they will continue to be a curse rather than a blessing with worse to come.

About 29 minutes and 30 seconds into "the Science of Living Longer" video, at http://video.google....070349217621336, Richard Weindruch mentions plans for "expanded testing of learning and behavioral measures" in calorie restricted animals. If he does the stress and aggression testing I suspect he plans to do, I'm fairly certain the results will show that character and lifestyle are much more important to longevity than previously thought.

Never say never. Right now you're too young to make a full and final decision. You might find later on in life that Christian communism with longevity as its goal to be a worthwhile pursuit.

My "final" decision is the decision I hold when I die, and since that can be tomorrow (or next thursday), all my decisions are "final". Besides, I'm the guy who vows in the name of change, so the joke's on you. Maybe someday you'll find egotism and mindless self-indulgence to be a goal "worth" pursuing.
And you, you shut the **** up about "age". What does that mean anyways?

Look, by no means do I actually give any criticism of the actual idea (save for the 'christian' part, but excuse me). It's just that, me. I'm not willing to give up my individuality and my own path for
anything, and as long as my decision stays, I won't. On long enough timeline, it won't, if that's what you're looking for.
Objectively I think it a magnificent idea, worth of all the effort. Communism is the best idea when it comes to, well, holding a COMMUNITY (which is the definition, so I guess I'm an oxymoron). As for your way of living, I applaud you. You have succeeded in your aims, as you have apparently given most of your belongings to your community and become both it's member and a servant.

God's law when correctly followed in light of Christ's teachings will bring about strength of character and great wisdom which are absolutely necessary for using science and technology safely. If science and technology continue to be practiced as today, they will continue to be a curse rather than a blessing with worse to come.

since studies are where the buck stops, care to cite any providing evidence for your claims? or perhaps a brilliant theory worth studying?


like....... technology-god=curse?

thanks for responding, and please don't use ad hominem attacks on me EVER AGAIN. [ang] I don't care that you called me a homosexual ( names mean nothing to me), what I care about is that you FAILED to respond to my inquiries.....and made me use ALOT OF CAPITALS STATING MY INTENSITY in this reply.

Maybe someday you'll find egotism and mindless self-indulgence to be a goal "worth" pursuing.
And you, you shut the **** up about "age". What does that mean anyways?

[lol] classic OwNaG3. It's ok to say PHU<K here, I've done so many times.

I would do it for month or so. Sounds like fun. Ultimately I'd prefer to live in a progressive, future oriented community

How about a summer vacation in a kibbutz? See http://www.kibbutz.o...eng/welcome.htm. May be in the future they could establish futuristic kibbutzim in every country that promote simplicity of lifestyle and transhumanist ideas.

And you, you shut the **** up about "age". What does that mean anyways?

It means your brain isn't fully developed yet and you're at risk. See http://www.factsonta...escentBrain.pdf. You need to be extra careful to keep impulses under control at all times.

I'm on the website now...
Good choice! I've always liked their gender egalitarianism. I never liked the notion of forcing people into specific chores based on gender.

I'll take this as a hint you do not wish to discuss these matters further Elijah.

and I suppose it's best I never respond to your threads, if this is the case. [mellow]

I'm willing to discuss matters of religion and communism with you but not if you continue to ignore my posts.

Elijah, You remind me of Bruce Beach, the survivalist guy in Canada. You look somewhat like him.
Maybe you know him.

Edited by thymeless, 04 April 2007 - 02:30 AM.

I would do it for month or so. Sounds like fun. Ultimately I'd prefer to live in a progressive, future oriented community. My worst fear would be living inside Costco in the year 2505.

My first thought was like, dude, that is exactly what I would want to do! Think of all the cool stuff you could buy, and then come back here an ebay it for like billions! Then I checked out the link. Now I have to get that video.

Elijah, I think what you are doing is admirable. I don't think there's much of a "future" in communism, given human nature and all, but as long as the members were motivated, it would probably be great. Sort of like, I don't know, Shakers with Sex? (and fewer calories?) It must get a little tiresome sometimes what with all the hostile atheists and high schoolers, but hang in there.