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Evolution Meets Judaism


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#1 kevin

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:01 AM


Link: http://www.the-scien.../2005/5/23/12/2


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Evolution meets Judaism
By Diana Gitig
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It's been hard to miss the recent antagonism between elements in the religious and scientific communities over issues such as evolution and the ethics of embryonic stem cell research. The public acrimony over those issues has often arisen from conflict between scientific practice and the beliefs of Christians. But for some Jewish thinkers, modern science is thoroughly compatible with strongly held religious views.

Rabbi Natan Slifkin, who goes by the name of the Zoo Rabbi, is one prominent figure who is making a career out of reconciling evolution with classical Jewish thought. "Intelligent design usually involves arguing that there are structures in living creatures which cannot be explained by naturalistic processes," he writes via E-mail. "I think that this is a potentially problematic approach, certainly from a Jewish perspective. Judaism has always focused on seeing God in the design of the laws of nature, not in creating phenomena that can't be explained by natural laws – yet."

Slifkin, 29, points out that "Jews are generally less insistent than Christians on literal readings of scripture (due to a long tradition of rabbinic deeper interpretations of the Bible). In addition, miracles and supernatural acts are much less significant in Judaism than in Christianity."

Slifkin's views – see more at [ http://www.zootorah.com ] – have not been without their opponents in the Jewish community. His recent book, The Science of Torah, caused quite a stir recently when it was attacked by some religious figures. "I knew that these ideas were regarded with deep loathing in certain insular circles, amongst people who have had no exposure to modern science," he says. "But I did not think that my books would penetrate these circles ... and indeed they didn't, which is why for years there was no uproar [until] certain troublemakers brought them to the attention of people who would not have noticed them otherwise."

"What was interesting is that those who strongly opposed my books totally underestimated how widely these ideas are accepted in the Orthodox Jewish world," Slifkin says. "The overwhelming majority of the community, including many rabbis and community leaders, were sympathetic to my views."

That support has a historical basis, too. The great nineteenth century Torah scholar, Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, wrote that a totally naturalistic evolutionary explanation for life would show the "creative wisdom" of God in being able to design a set of simple rules that produces extraordinarily complex and rich results without any need for interference.

Rabbi Edward Reichman, an emergency room physician specializing in medical ethics at New York's Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, notes that "Judaism strives to harness all elements of the creation for the good of man. In Genesis, God enjoins man to be a partner in the creation, and to continue the process in perpetuity."

When it comes to embryonic stem cell research, this view has significant ramifications, Reichman says. "While other religions would consider the destruction of an embryo tantamount to homicide, Jewish law does not accord the legal status of human life to the embryo. For example, while the Sabbath can and must be violated to preserve a human life, no such violation is allowed to preserve an embryo. As a result, the majority of rabbinic opinion allows, with limitations, the harvesting of stem cells from embryos for research."

"Jewish law embraces technological advances, and all research for the treatment of human disease and the preservation of life," says Reichman, "as long as they do not conflict with the Torah's principles."

#2 knite

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 03:42 PM

I think im Jewish, lol
But really, how difficult is it for people to understand that a being capable of creating the universe, knowing every intimate detail of it, would not individually create each and every particle, and place them together. He would design the universe so that it designs itself. Even a moderately intelligent being can see that is the best approach.

God didnt design the universe, the universe did that itself, but he made sure it knew what it was doing.

#3 Infernity

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 04:25 PM

I think if you switch the word "God" or another term of God to "Universe" every time it shows up in the bible, then it all makes sense, and only need few overhauls of common-sense where things are still showed up as phenomenons...

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#4 Trias

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 10:36 PM

I think if you switch the word "God" or another term of God to "Universe" every time it shows up in the bible, then it all makes sense, and only need few overhauls of common-sense where things are still showed up as phenomenons...

Yours truthfully
~Infernity


Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work ;-)
Nor with any other mythology codex.

#5 Infernity

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:58 AM

Oh hey there again Daniel, well, give me a place where it won't fit, and I'll make it fit ;)

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#6 Trias

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 02:10 PM

I piled a few of my older writings; can the idol of Jehovah (the biblical God), truly be replaced with the "universe", or "Nature"; you are welcome to try for yourself.
By the way - - Einstein was not religious, also - he did not believe in any sort of "religious God", either - he was a naturalist, believed in the god of spinoza - that is, "Deus sive Natura" (God or Nature), god is just a synonym for nature, no supernatural entity. The story you presented with Elokim, by the way, is fabricated. And if among Judaism, Baruch Spinoza was considered to be: "Greatest Atheist", his books were burned - - just think of the devoutness level of A. Einstein =)

Einstein believed in physics and nature; but more than that, humanity - or more likely, humanness; without religion.
:)

Ameliorate,
Without limits!
-------------------------------------------

The Creation

Differing religious beliefs about the origins of the species, the formation of the Earth and the universe - have their foundation in different views of the creation stories -- in the Book of Genesis (located in the beginning of the Old Testament), and in other passages elsewhere in the Bible.
As for today, most conservative Christians/Jews generally believe in the absolute inerrancy of the Bible, that is – its primacy above all other ancient tales and its indelible genuine divinity. Thus they regard the creation story in the first part of Genesis to be literally correct, an expression of ultimate truth and perfection - virtually God-given.
Many of them believe that the scriptural events covered six actual 24-hour days, and that God has created the world exactly as stated, verbatim. This creation, according to their claim, has happened in circa 4004 BC. This date was reckoned by Bishop Usher by working backwards in the Bible from the year during which Saul became King over the kingdom of ancient Israel (~1020 - 1095 BC).
Throughout history, other conservative theists have estimated that the event of creation took place between 3610 BC and 8000 BC. They base this upon the assumptions that the many generations listed in the Bible did not necessarily refer to a father begetting a son; rather, they may have described a grandfather begetting a grandson. This would insert an unknown number of generations into the calculations, and push the creation date back further into history.
A different form of Christians and Jews stand at the balance point between conservatism and liberalism. They have attempted to reconcile the Bible with the newest findings of science, and have accepted the concept of an Earth that is unmistakably billions of years old, either by claiming that the days of Genesis are each periods of indefinite length or that there is a considerable gap of a few billion years between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. By harmonizing Genesis and science, they can continue their belief in the inerrancy of the Bible.
Nevertheless, some form of post-liberal Jews and Christians simply no longer accept the inerrancy of the Bible. They acknowledge the more reasonable option that the authors of Genesis have undoubtedly lived in a pre-scientific world - even elementary geology, cosmology, astronomy and biology were beyond their knowledge and ability to understand and research empirically. They may accept the creation stories in Genesis as a fallible human product by the ancient Israelites; an imaginative creative work that is unrelated to reality, but was the best that the authors could do with their primitive scientific knowledge.
Alternatively, they may accept the stories as myths derived from earlier Mesopotamian creation legends that were re-worked by the ancient Israelites to remove the original polytheistic references and show God's superiority over nature: creator over creation. Merely an allegory that was never meant to be interpreted literally - a myth that is used as a vehicle to teach spiritual notions.
At any rate, substantiating the fallibility of the scriptures is rather easy; a key element found in the Bible frames its human authors, and thus condemns Jehovah’s creation story to the compilation of mythology. The incriminating key is generally attested scientific errancy. A prominent example would most likely be the popular ancient notion of Geocentrism; that is – the belief that the Earth is the focal point of unconditioned centrality, while everything else surrounds it.
By objectively comparing the biblical creation story to any other form of ancient mythological lore - we’d immediately witness a prominent resemblance between them - contrariety with many newly discovered scientific facts.

Genesis 1:1 - ”In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

Similar to almost every ancient religion’s / myth’s percipience, the concept of Geocentrism immediately rises in the beginning, serving as a foundation. The Earth naturally comes first; it is but the very cornerstone of existence, its place is in the center and so is its significance. The stars, for instance, according to Genesis - were created solely for the benefit of the Earth – in order to illuminate it. Other prospects of Geocentrism in the bible shall be discussed later ahead in this essay.
The Babylonian creation story for example (which shall be compared to Genesis further ahead) states that in the beginning - the god Marduk arms himself and sets out to challenge the monster Tiamat. Marduk destroys Tiamat, cutting her into two halves which become the Earth and the sky. Later on, he also destroys Tiamat's husband, Kingu, and uses his blood to create mankind.
The Egyptian creation story, on the other hand - states that in the beginning there was only ocean. Then a hill became visible rising from the ocean, and at this point the first god awoke (The cosmology of Heliopolis held that this first god was the sun god Ra, while that of Memphis claimed it was the Ptah, god of the earth). At any rate - the first god began to create other gods, who proceeded to create the various aspects of the world.
The Maori creation myth tells how heaven and earth were once joined as “Ranginui” (the Sky Father), and “Papatuanuki” (the Earth Mother), lay together in a tight embrace. They had many children who lived in the darkness between them. The children wished to live in the light and so separated their unwilling parents. Ranginui and Papauanuk continue to grieve for each other to this day. Rangi's tears fall as rain towards Papatuanuku to show how much he loves her. When mist rises from the forests, these are Papa's sighs as the warmth of her body yearns for him and continues to nurture mankind.
The Chinese creation myth explains that the world began as an egg. A god named Pangu, was born inside it and broke it into two halves: The upper half became the sky, the lower half became the earth. As the god grew taller, the sky and the earth grew thicker and were separated further. Finally the god died and his body parts became different parts of the earth.

Notice how these myths naturally tend to concentrate on the Earth, our closest environment, our most-familiar home – this is unmistakebly caused by ancient myopia – shortsightedness and actual lack of scientifc feasibility to research and explore extra-terrastial environments.
It is extremely easy to deduce from the the foregoing samples that chronological, factual and scientifc incorrectness is very common amongst various mythological creation stories. The biblical one offers no palpable advantage and is objectively not exceptionally preferable over its contenders – it can be easily refuted by revealing the existence of numerous contradictions, just like in every mythical tale.
Concisely, this segment’s premise is that the Hebrew-Christian God’s legend has no factual superiority over different “mythical” legends, with dissimilar deities – this premise stands athwart to the central dogma of all fundamental Christians and Jews who reason that God simply cannot be the author of false meaning and cannot lie.
Well, if truly written by a perfect being, then it must be precise, flawless and must not contradict itself - as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries would be expected to contradict each other.
In the book of Genesis, it is told that the God Jehovah commences with the formation of the Earth and then continues to build his world with a total illogical mess.
Let us closely examine the incongruous nature of this fascinating scenario, starting with The First Contradiction: The Creation of Light, in verses 3-5.

Genesis 1:3 - ”Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.”
Genesis 1:4 - ”God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. “
Genesis 1:5 - ”God called the light day, and the darkness He called night And there was evening and there was morning, one day.”

When comparing to verses 14-19, a few problems rise.
Genesis 1:14 - “Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years”
Genesis 1:15 - “and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.”
Genesis 1:16 - “God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.”
Genesis 1:17-18 - “God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.”
Genesis 1:19 - “There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.”

First, God created light (which he calls ‘day’) and separated it from the pre-existing darkness (which he calls ‘night’) on the first day; yet there were no moon, sun or stars until the fourth day. Today, it is widely known and proven that the cycle of night and day (or light and darkness) is merely caused by the rotation of the earth around its own axis, exposing different regions of it to the sun (which generates the “daytime” effect). Thus, the essence of “day” cannot exist without the solar sustainment. The writer of Genesis indubitably lacked elemental astronomical education.
Secondly, how could it be known when the first three days ended if the sun was absent until the very fourth day? – And how could morning be distinguished from evening in the first three days, if the sun and the moon were yet to be created? –After all, earthly time is measured via the cycle of night and day; it is known that ancient human civilizations used to evaluate time according to the same principle – the changing seasons of light and darkness, which are fundamentally stemming from the existence of the sun.
Evening is defined as “the beginning of darkness or night”, the period in which the moon is starting to become evident and the stars shine. How could evening exist in the first three days with the absence of the Moon (“the lesser light”) and the stars?

The Second Contradiction: The Creation of Vegetation originates from verses 11-13:
Genesis 1:11 - “Then God said, ‘Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them’; and it was so.”
Genesis 1:12 - “The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.”
Genesis 1:13 - “There was evening and there was morning, a third day.”

Again, a few problems rise when comparing to verses 16 & 19. Vegetation, so it would seem - was created on the third day; yet there was no sun for the photosynthesis process until the fourth day. The earth cannot have “brought forth” vegetation, plants, seeds trees and fruits in the absence of the sun. Obviously the writer lacked not only insight in elemental astronomy, but in biology as well.

The Third Contradiction: The Creation of the Solar System and the Stars originates from comparing verses 1 and the ending of verse 5 (“And there was evening and there was morning, one day.”) to verses 16 & 19. Well, according to the bible’s cosmological "science", the earth has been created three days prior to the sun, the moon and the stars. However, modern cosmology demonstrates that the birth of our solar system (i.e. the planets - Earth included, moons, comets, asteroids etc’) has initiated only much after the sun has existed. The sun has slowly begun collapsing under the force of its own gravity, and when this tremendous event finally did occur, the nuclear fusion reactions started up in the hottest-densest area of the sun. Tremendous amounts of radiant nuclear energy were suddenly created in the innards of the sun. All of this newly released energy caused a sudden sustained violent increase in the pressure and temperature of the sun creating powerful chain reactions throughout its core region.
These reactions did not just cause the star to begin shining. It caused the sun to violently expand to many times its former size and explode. The explosion sent its matter hurtling at great speed outward in every direction in all sizes and speeds, both gases and molten solids, from the size of small particles to the size of the giant planets. Some of it was hurled out at such a great velocity that it was lost forever to other regions of the galaxy.
Much of the debris eventually fell back into the speeding sun, if its trajectory was just right. Other debris, after it had expended its outward energy and had not broken free of the sun's gravity, began to fall back towards it - but due to the sun's great galactic speed and changing position – it has always missed it. This debris is the matter that became the planets, moons, comets, asteroids of our solar system. They are the survivors.
Regarding the creation of the stars – modern science notes that there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth (due to their tremendous distance, and the fixed speed of light). *(EXPAND! HERE THE EXPERINENT TO THE EDGES OF THE UNIVERSE)* How then, could they be about a few thousands years old as many theists assert? (Remember that conservative theists postulate that the creation has come to pass at circa 4004-8000 BC).
So how can the ancient stars be younger than the earth (according to the text of Genesis) - if its scientific accepted age (and that of the rest of our solar system) is about 4.55 billion years (with a standard deviation of about 1%)? - This value is derived from several different lines of evidence.

The Fourth Contradiction: The Creation of First Life originates from comparing verses 11-13 to verses 20-23:

Genesis 1:20 - “Then God said, ‘Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.’”
Genesis 1:21 - “God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.”
Genesis 1:22 - “God blessed them, saying, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.’”
Genesis 1:23 - “There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.”

Genesis declares that life existed first on the land as plants (in the third day) and only later the seas teemed with living creatures (in the fifth day). However, modern geological science shows that the sea teemed with animals and vegetable life long before life appeared on land. *(FIRST LIFE IN OCEANS)*.
The Fifth Contradiction: The Creation of Fishes, Birds, Reptiles and Mammals originates from verses 21-23 (I), 24-25 (III) and from comparing verses 21 and 23 to verse 25 and the ending of verse 31 (II):

Genesis 1:24 – ”Then God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind’; and it was so.”
Genesis 1:25 – “God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.”
Genesis 1:31 (ending) – ”And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.”

(I) Modern geological science shows us that fishes have appeared long before the birds. They were definitely not created during the same day or period (as suggested in verse 21). *(EXPAND!!)*
(II) Science also demonstrates that as for the case of creeping reptiles – they have appeared on the earth before the fowl, not afterwards (in contrast to what Genesis suggests - - verses 21, 23 - first fowls were created in the fifth day, then reptiles in the sixth – verses 25, 31). Paleontologists, who generally support the theory of evolution, point out that the fossil record – in reality, shows the opposite of what Genesis suggests.
(III) Science contends that reptiles were created long before mammals, not simultaneously (at the same day or period). While reptiles existed in the Carboniferous Age, mammals did not appear until the close of the Reptilian Age. *(EXPAND!!)*
The Sixth Contradiction: The Creation of Men originates from verse 27 and the ending of verse 31.

Genesis 1:27 – “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”

Now this is truly astounding. If Adam was created on the 6th day, approximately 6000 years ago (Bishop Usher's calculations), then it is easily inferred nobody lived before 4004 B.C. That means prehistoric men would be fictitious *(EXPAND!)*. By tracing the genealogy of Jesus back 77 generations to Adam, the third chapter of Luke (in the New Testament) also supports belief in this “young-earth” theory. If each man had lived approximately 100 years, then the world would be no more than about 9700 years old (~2000 years after the beginning of the Common Era + 7700 years prior to it). If each of Jesus' ancestors had lived to be 1,000 years old (an age not even reached by Methuselah), the earth would still be only about 79000 (77000 + 2000) years old, according to creationists.

(CONTRADICTION: CREATION STORY #2 + ADAM AND EVE AT EDEN)

Due to the vast contradictory nature of Genesis’ creation story, many loyal theists have decided approaching a more liberal stand, thus forsaking their view of a “word for word” creation, understanding its absurdity and senselessness. They do this in order to extricate themselves from the evident problems associated with a notion of six-day creation that has occurred 6000-10000 years ago. Thus, they assert that each day actually represents an age or an era, encompassing millions of years – and literal days composed of 24 hours each were never intended. Their new “amended” belief, however – is erroneous for several reasons.

First, the Hebrew word for day is “Yom”, which doubtlessly means a definite 24-hour period from sunset to sunset.
Second, the cycle of morning-evening shows that a 24-hour period was intended. This was how Jews and almost any nation figured a day. If a day is an era, why are evening and morning even mentioned?
Third, actual days must be intended; otherwise, men who lived hundreds of years, (e.g. Seth, Methuselah, Noah), would really have lived billions of years. If a day is an era, then a year must be tremendously long, perhaps encompassing hundreds or even thousands of millions of years.
Fourth, if a day means more than a 24-hour period, then how are we to interpret verses 8-11 in the book of Exodus (The Ten Commandments)?

Exodus 20:8 - ”Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
Exodus 20:9-10 - ”Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.”
Exodus 20:11 - "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
Obviously verses 8-10 explicitly instruct us not to work on the Seventh Day (“Sabbath” in Hebrew). Verse 11 offers the reason behind this instruction – for god has worked six days and rested on the seventh. According to the bible, mankind should always strive to imitate God’s behavior and embrace his virtuous ideals. Obviously the Decalogue did not intend for us to rest after six periods of millions of years.
Fifth, in Genesis chapter 1, verse 16 states that the sun was created to rule the day and the moon to rule the night (as the sun is evident during the day, and the moon during the night). This obviously is referring to time as we know it--time with days that are 24 hours long with daylight ruling half of each. How absurd is to assume that the biblical author meant for the sun and moon to each rule a period of millions of years?
And lastly, Adam was made on the sixth day (As stated in Genesis 1:26, 31), which was supposedly thousand of years long. This was naturally followed by another day (The Seventh) which was also thousands of years long. Following the seventh day, Adam fell into sin and was expelled from the Garden. This would mean Adam lived thousands of years, which is false, since he died at the age of 930 (According to Genesis 5:5).

Genesis 5:5 - ”So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died”

Segment II: Jehovah’s Anthropomorphism

Anthropomorphism is generally defined as the attribution of human form or other human characteristics to any nonhuman object. It stems from the two Greek words, “anthrôpos” - meaning human, and “morphç” - meaning shape or form.
Various mythologies are almost entirely concerned with anthropomorphic gods in human forms which possess human characteristics such as jealousy, vindictiveness, arrogance, hatred, or love. While modern monotheistic religions generally try to mark themselves as “myth free” - the expression of ultimate-divine truth and hold that it is improper to describe the nature of God as human - the bible itself is virtually opulent with his human depictions. Judaism and Christianity stand for the transcendency of Jehovah, above all myths, legends, deities and faiths - - he stands alone, supreme, free of error, free of earthen or mythological equivalents – the perfect God. Yet his holy book quite ironically proves the opposite - bestowing Jehova conspicuous (and thus condemning) human characteristics, emotions and patterns of behavior – which are altogether one of the epitomes of mythology.


The Godly Form and Depictions
According to contemporary belief – God has absolutely no determinate form, he’s but completely abstract and transcendental. Nevertheless, this modern creed unambiguously falls under the instability its own foundations – the Holy Bible.
Various biblical verses definitely support the corporeality of Jehovah, depicting him in a manner that is more fit to a mythological avatar rather than an intangible being.

Genesis 3:8 – “They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.”
Exodus 33:11 – “Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend”
Exodus 33:20-23 – “But He said, ‘You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!’, Then the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock; and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by. Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."
Exodus 34:5 – “The LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD.”
Ezekiel 1:27 – “Then I noticed from the appearance of His (Jehovah’s) loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him.”
Ezekiel 8:2 – “Then I looked, and behold, a likeness as the appearance of a man; from His loins and downward there was the appearance of fire, and from His loins and upward the appearance of brightness, like the appearance of glowing metal. He stretched out the form of a hand and caught me by a lock of my head…”
Habakkuk 3:4 – “His radiance is like the sunlight; He has rays flashing from His hand, And there is the hiding of His power.”


The Grandeur of Emotions
Jehovah, similar to virtually every other form of mythological deity – ironically holds quite a complete spectrum of human emotions and propensities, as entirely opposed to his so-called “transcendent”- unearthly nature.
Jehovah’s wrath, anger, jealousy, love and forgiveness quite jeeringly portray a common idol rather than a true supreme divinity.

Anger & Wrath - - Jehovah seems to lose his composure quite often.
Deuteronomy 13:17 – “…In order that the LORD may turn from His burning anger and show mercy to you…”
Judges 3:8 – “Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, so that He sold them into the hands of Cushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia”
Psalms 21:9 – “You will make them as a fiery oven in the time of your anger; The LORD will swallow them up in His wrath, And fire will devour them.”
2 Samuel 24:1 – “Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel”
Nahum 1:2 – “A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD is avenging and wrathful The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies.”
Numbers 11:1 – “and when the LORD heard it, His anger was kindled, and the fire of the LORD burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp.”

Jealousy - - Jehovah is often described as a jealous God; he even admits it personally.
Joshua 24:19-20 – “Then Joshua said to the people, ‘You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.’”
Exodus 20:1,3 - ”Then God spoke all these words, saying …You shall have no other gods before Me.”
Exodus 20:4-5 - ”You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God”
Zechariah 8:2 – “Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I am exceedingly jealous for Zion, yes, with great wrath I am jealous for her.'”

#7 ilia

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:55 PM

Great Scholarship, Dany! Well done!
My religious definition is "masorti ad kdey hilony" (religious to the point of non-observance). I am no great Torah scholar, but I do believe the scripture has 70 aspects, including contradiction, and that it is given to interpretation.
What you call anthropomorphism, others may call moral guidance conveyed in human terms. What you see as contradiction with modern science, others may see as a different scientific context (e.g. light may mean energy, earth may mean matter, etc.). Yet others don't even read it as a text, but rather as a code that we are only beginning to understand. In fact (as Slifkin also points out above), literal interpretation is quite foreign to Judaism.

I think trying to convince anybody in the falsity of their religious beliefs does not avail. You will be either countered or ignored.
Therefore, in our common task of conquering death, I believe it is much more helpful to gather support rather than provoke antagonism. And there is much in the Bible to support the life extension movement. Talking with orthodox guys, I always remind them of our professed faith in "Tchiat Hametim" (physical resurrection). Most don't see this as subject to our conscious effort, but some do (especially guys from Habbad). This seems very encouraging, indicating that religious differences shouldn't be an obstacle towards the common goal of life extension and immortality.




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