Soy Milk and Rice Cakes.

I hope I am not repeating any prior discussion.
I decided tonight to grace everyone with my presence and pass along some information
about a couple of products I’ve recently added to my diet (a few months back).
I’ve been steadily working towards a CR diet.
After 26 years of normal eating I feel one should ease into it.

Two products I picked up a few months back are Silk Light Soy Milk and lightly salted Rice Cakes. For some reason I have felt the need to spread my knowledge of these two products to a few family members as well. My mother is completely hooked and off of regular Cows’ Milk.

I find the Rice Cakes to be a perfect snack for CR diet’s personally. And they taste very good. Also the Soy Milk tastes like a vanilla shake to me but there is also the option of the non vanilla flavored if one so chooses.

The main reason for this post was to pass on my delight for Silk brand Soy Milk because when my mother started her health food craze ages ago she brought home some horrible things. Back then most health food tasted like ground up pure Soy. Which I have had the unfortunate experience in tasting first hand during a body building phase of my life.

As usual critique’s welcome, my initial reason for the change from Cows’ Milk was the Puss included in Cows’ Milk. The Rice Cakes should be obvious.

1. I'm sure there is discussion around here somewhere on soy. Contraversial. at best. Personally I would not recommend soy.

2. Rice cakes? They have the glycemic index of sugar.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for NUTRITION to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

Really? What's wrong with soy milk, scott? I drink it like everyday and prefer it over regular milk. I always thought it was relatively healthy for you.

1. If you google dangers of soy you'll find....tons of information. Probably been mentioned around here previously.

I'm assuming that the phytoestrogens in soy make it into milk, so it is possible I'm mistaken on that count. I'll try to look later, but I'm on call and work calls right now.

Here Don:

"A wide variety of soybean products are available, some are traditional whilst others have been developed for the Western market. Whole soy beans, tofu, miso, natto, tempeh, **soy milk**, cheese, custard and yoghurt products are common sources of soy protein and phytoestrogens."

http://www.yourhealt...tent.php?id=195

of course they are saying how wonderful soy is, but it answers my question.

If soy has enough phytoestrogens to stop women having hot flashes do you really wish to consume it?

Arguments against soy have to do with:

--very hard to digest
--super common allrgen
--adverse effect on thyroid
--phytic acid
--?lower testosterone
...

Edited by scottl, 27 August 2005 - 11:10 AM.

Most flavored soy milks have a lot of sugar in them and so have a high glycemic index, and so do rice cakes as set mentioned. Before anything else, I try to manage my insulin levels. I think that's the most importatnt thing (when I'm actually trying to be healthy; lately I've been falling off the wagon a lot).

But we do buy soy milk. I drink if for the phytoestrogens and because it does tatste good so it's a treat (I buy the bad kind - vanilla flavored). My little one tried it and liked it and I used to let her drink quite a bit. She loves tofu and its easy to prepare so we eat that. I thought, well, soy milk has to be less concentrated than tofu, right? And they have a lot of babies on soy formula, riight? But I'm now worried, so i've restricted the soy milk to 8 oz per day and tofu to 1x a week. I don't know what to do for her protein, though. She says 'I don't like meat'; but she will eat turkey hot dogs (yuck!).

For adult females, soy protein can be beneficial, but too much is bad. Not very helpful, I know. All legumes apparently have phytoestrogens (according to James Duke).

As far as a good healthy sback goes - plain roasted soy nuts are okay by me. I think you'd have to eat a heck of a lot before you ran into phytoestrogen problems.

Before anything else, I try to manage my insulin levels. I think that's the most importatnt thing (when I'm actually trying to be healthy;

Agreed. And not easy to do on a veggie diet as I was trying to tell someone...


I pass on knowing whether soy is good for adult women. As I say, controversial. Really best avoided by infants/children. I would recommend avoiding by men. Eating tofu occasionally ain't gonna do much, I'm talking regular consumption.

Why not stick to real nuts: walnuts, almonds have good fats, and cardiovascular benefits. You might verify the amount in your soy nuts. Things like that tend to have large amounts.

Oh and wraith--where do you think she got her dislike of meat from?

I don't know what to do for her protein, though. She says 'I don't like meat'; but she will eat turkey hot dogs (yuck!).

Sounds like my own childhood. I'm in my 20s, and to this day my mom still complains about how much work it was to force me to eat even a little bit of meat. And most of what she thought she'd gotten into me, actually had gone into a napkin or been traded if it was a something packed up for a school lunch. Oddly enough, I loved broccoli, cauliflower, and mushrooms.

I actually credit my daughter's existence to soy milk. A few years ago, with my first husband, I actually tried to get pregnant (in hindsight I don't understand why I did that, but that's another topic). I went off soy milk, took a mass-market multivitamin and that was it. No supplements, 'health foods' or prescription meds. We were both on sabbatical, so minimal stress, too. We tried several months and I even took ovulation tests to improve timing. Nothing.

A few years later I moved in with my current husband and I was drinking a lot of soy milk (phytoestrogens can help adult females in the romance dept.) and that was it. One mess up on the bc (only the second in my life) and this old lady got pregnant. And I'm very pleased!

Soy nuts have fewer calories than almonds and about half the fat. I eat a lot of tree nuts and peanuts myself. My dd won't touch them, probably due to the fact that for her first three years I told her she couldn't have any. I personally don't think that eating plain soy nuts would be any worse than eating bean soup or humus.

My dd used to eat almost everything when she was a baby. She even ate filet mignon back when we still ate beef (I'm afraid of BSE nowadays; they don't seem to be testing enough). She never liked fish; neither does her Dad. (and I'm wary of fish for her 'cuz of the contaminants. I *knew* that farmed fish from China was contaminated - now how did I guess that?). I dunno. I guess I'll have to go for organic eggs and dairy. I use egg beaters a lot because of the convenience and its better for the big people's health, but I think she probably needs more cholesterol for her development. What do you think?

~~~
Everything's contaminated, nothing's safe, there's nothing to eat... How's that for CR?

My dd is very good about most vegetables! broccoli, cauliflower, okra, peas.

She even designed her own lunch the other day. Corn with 'striped cheese' (grated) on top.
She loves watching the FoodNetwork, knows all the chefs by name, and did not want to go to bed the other night because she wanted to watch the cake decorating contest. She wants to be a chef. Or a doctor. Or an artist.

I don't know what to do for her protein, though. She says 'I don't like meat'; but she will eat turkey hot dogs (yuck!).

Sounds like my own childhood. I'm in my 20s, and to this day my mom still complains about how much work it was to force me to eat even a little bit of meat. And most of what she thought she'd gotten into me, actually had gone into a napkin or been traded if it was a something packed up for a school lunch. Oddly enough, I loved broccoli, cauliflower, and mushrooms.

Emerson,

Out of curiousity what blood type are you--if you know?

Were you on antibiotics a lot as a kid?

I think not having enough protein for a growing child is worse then ANY source of protein you could chose.

"but I think she probably needs more cholesterol for her development. What do you think?"

Agreed. She also needs omega 3 fatty acids for optimal brain developement. Sooo either you get her to eat salmon or sardines, or she needs fish oil caps. Salmon or sardines would be a great protein source too.


"I personally don't think that eating plain soy nuts would be any worse than eating bean soup or humus."

What is this comment based on?

http://www.soya.be/w...re-soy-nuts.php
Nutrional values of soy nuts(per 100g salted soy nuts):

Isoflavones 200 mg

------------------------------------------

Soy is a BIG business, backed by big $$$. And while...many are suspicous (or worse) of the motivations of big business (not without reason necessarily), somehow it has escaped them that the soy lobby is one of those big businesses.

I suspect the propaganda fits in nicely with their anti-meat biases, and so is swallowed readily.

And if there is some doubt about some of this, at least it will get you to look at this, rather then buying into the soy lobby's propaganda.

For those keeping score, buy unsweetened organic soy milk and shake a bit of stevia in it. mmmm !

Lemon,

I think you need more soy milk [lol]

Edited by scottl, 27 August 2005 - 06:49 PM.

Hi folks I have a question for you all concerning soy in general and soy milk in particular.

My wife likes to use soy milk in her coffee and for cereal etc. Not a large consumption but consistent. We also have soy in other forms as a part of our diet like tofu and meat alternatives.

We are not vegetarian but do not consume meat religiously either.

Anyway the matter that concerns me is the production and consumtion of estrogen analog (phytoestrogens) compounds from the digestion of soy.

There are some arguments that using soy products in menopausal women are encouraged because they can be sources of natural estrogens that help the metabolic transition in women but are not equine derived synthetics and thus can offset some of the need for hormone replacement therapy.

My wife is not yet menopausal but has been diagnosed with breast cancer and the tissues have a high estrogen receptivity (90%). So a probable part of the post operative therapy will be the use of tomoxifen to block estrogen receptivity in the malignant tissues.

I was wondering if she should also consider (at least for the period of therapy) avoiding the use of soy as it is considered a source of phytoestrogens in her diet?

http://www.clinicalt...how/NCT00000612

http://www.solaelivi...efits/index.jsp

A while ago, there was in Israel a upheaval, all the news papers and Israeli internet news sites showed articles of why NOT to better soy milk on regular milk.

Ministry of Health of health have researched it and warned that not as thought, soy milk has it's own disadvantages.

I tried to find something to advertise here, but couldn't find.

I'll advertise in Hebrew, something I just found- in the Israel sub-forum...


Do anyone mind telling me what is wrong with regular milk?

-Infernity

Do anyone mind telling me what is wrong with regular milk?

At your age there is very little wrong with whole milk Infernity but as you age there are number of issues involving cholesterol and milk fat, the same concern about hormones I raise above and also in many people genetic based lactose intolerance.

There are other issues as well but these are the most common I suspect but I think a key element is moderation.

I am mildly lactose intolerant,probably due to the mix of genes with non Europeans and I prefer the use of butter to margarine with no ill effects. I have still lowered my cholesterol dramatically by simply reducing consumption and adjusting other dietary features. I do love cheese though and also a good ice cream once in a while but I have to be careful to not consume too much.

However I found olestra was a cure that was worse than the disease and a good frozen yogurt has never bothered me one bit. I do not have a problem with soy and like it for many parts of the diet but there are no perfect solutions in this world, only the weighing of pros and cons I find.

Infirminty,

Completely off topic, but can you comment on the use of stevia in Israel?

Ah, thanks Laz, well I'll translate for you the article I have found and posted in the Israel sub-forum, of why it is not healthy for you to consume soy on a regular basis.


Lemon,

Infirminty?

Only for that I'll ignore you...
ðàöé!



-I N F E R N I T Y

Here is some article I've found in Hebrew http://info.org.il/i...383666588869605 which I've translated. By Sagi Coper*.

Beware - Soy

There's a real quarrel about the safety of soy products intake. In the last several years - all the researches of the subject, pretty much nouveau - The evidences of damages that causes the consuming of soy on it's omni-similitude increases itself to numerous of actual cases. When I say "omni-similitude", I mean soy milk, crumbs, granules, tofu, miso, tempa*, and so on. The only thing that is made of soy which is comparatively safe, is the soy sauce. The reason for that stemmed from the relative traditionalistic manufacture process of it.

After I read an article by Phillis Galzer* that praise the consuming of soy, I decided to stand up and make a move, and try to pass over the bit of knowledge I earned in the last several years to warn mothers, fathers, vegetarians, vegans, and soy consumer in general. An internet site I have opened is gathering a lot of material about the theme, including transferal to solemn articles and researches, and not "on behalf of".

In soy there are pitoestrogens*. These are vegetal hormones whom are found in many kinds of the pod-legumes, not all of them, but from clover to pea. The concentration of the pitoestrogens is namely high. These substances are similar and even alike them in their activity to oestrogen (the female sex hormone), and that's the reason they do good for women in some particular levels of their lives, when they stop producing oestrogen naturally. Spoken of women in middle age.

Oestrogen intake by men, babies, children, and oldsters is immensely not good. The thing is, it is changing the hormonal balance in the body and for that there are many implications that we yet are not aware of all are which. What we do know is that there are identified developmental detriment to the wombs of mothers that has been consuming soy milk in the period of pregnancy; that there are cases known of breasts sprout and hair growth by four-years-old girls who were fed in formula based on soy, and more other phenomena.

To be clear: in hundred grams of soy there is the same dosage of oestrogen that contains a single pill for pregnancy prevention. Talking of pills from the old generation in a comparative manner. Nowadays there are many pills that contain even a lower dosage of oestrogens. Many women abstain from using side effect of middle age preclusion hormones. In spite of that they drink a huge amount - two glasses and more per day - of spy milk. It is taking the same hormones in an uninspected form.

Milk sensitivity - that doubtful if properly diagnosed in tithe of the babies that their parents think they suffer from - is a deal of three percent of the population at the most. Three percent only. In Israel, in some ages, 22% of the babies are fed in a vegetal substitute without any reason. No reason of health, and I'm pretty sure that not of the Jewish religious law either, for the sake of the matter.

The Ministry of Health recommends not to feed babies in soy babies nourishment compound. Its recommendation - copied from the British Ministry of Health recommendations - determines unequivocal not having a single utility relatively and it is no recommended. ! Unambiguous ! The problem with that recommendation is that it is buried somewhere in the site of the Ministry, and even after the 'Ramedia' affair, the Ministry did non even bother using the general aura and the matter to give it its needed intensification.

In New-Zealand following public pressure and following a British governmental committee report, the Isomil was taken off the shops. The Isomil markets to Israel, and it is one of the hauler soy formulas, and not only here.

I ask to clarify interpretatively: the researches that found possible dangers that originate form soy consuming were not sponsored by cattle or meat manufacturers or the burgers breeder. Spoken of researches whom were sponsored by ordinary elements and purses, the NIH (the American Nutrition Institutes of Health) among, and in any case, they passed an examination and a censorious read by researchers and scientists, and got advertised in the same prominence exactly were the soy support essays were put.

As aforesaid, if you are vegetarians or parents, or used to consume soy products in any quantity (no threshold - any amount implies some damages), do yourself a favour and visit the site I have opened. I am sorry it is not pretty or colourful, but all the information you'll find in it is real and relevant. You better recall that there is a profit from soy intake, but it is probably common for very specific audience in specific situations.

For to be clear: I'm a physiologist (not a doctor nor a nutritionist) with an extended academic background, also in oncology.


[*I'm not sure that's how you write it since I probably wasn't even sure how you say it in Hebrew, and I couldn't find it]

Sorry for it not being perfect. If you wish to comment on the Hebrew article... http://www.imminst.o...1&t=7782&hl=&s=


-Infernity

Nutrition Facts

Silk Soy Milk 1 cup (240mL) 100% Organic

Calories 80 Calories from fat 20

Total Fat 2g 3%
Saturated Fat 0g 0%
Trans Fat 0g
Polyunsaturated Fat 1g
Monounsaturated Fat 0.5g

Cholesterol 0mg 0%
Sodium 95mg 4%
Potassium 300mg 8%
Total Carbohydrate 10g 3%
Dietary Fiber 1g 4%
Sugars 7g
Protein 6g

Vitamin A 10%
Calcium 30%
Vitamin D 30%
Folate 6%
Zinc 4%
Iron 6%
Riboflavin 30%
Vitamin b12 50%

110 mg Omega-3 and 800 mg of Omega-6 fatty acids.
Percentages based on a 2000 calorie diet of course.


Regular Cows’ Milk is at least 150 Calories per cup usually 180 here at Wal-Mart.
Fat Free milk aka skim milk is usually 80+ Calories as well.
I do not own any Cows’ Milk so I can’t post all of the nutritional facts but Im sure as most know the fat and cholesterol are bad news in Cows’ Milk.



No Cows’ Milk has anywhere close to the nutritional value of Soy Milk that I have found. In addition, if you’ve ever worked on a dairy farm as I have you’d not want to drink Cows’ Milk. There are A LOT more studies against cows milk then Soy Milk by far. I also feel these studies are done on the older products that I mentioned.
If anything I would say that the dairy industry pushes propaganda against Soy Milk.
Everything I’ve seen stated against Cows’ Milk I already knew to be true.

Also the Rice Cakes I eat have no calorie value; I don’t understand where you guys are getting these figures. Please provide some information so I can compare. Here is a link to some facts on Rice Cakes, http://www.calorie-c...item/19051.html, however I dont recall the ones I eat being over 10 calories. I do not have any where I am at but will check later. And the sodium is higher in the link. My cakes are only lightly salted and plain.

Also this is the only Soy product I use. I drink a cup a day to a cup every other day.

Edited by Set, 27 August 2005 - 08:20 PM.

And on the topic of "estrogens".
I'll take a small dose of that any day over what I had to inject into those cows.
Something old farmers called Turkey Medicine.
It’s a cocktail of antibiotics and hormones.
A lot of it ends up in the milk.
This cocktail changes two to three times per year.
More of an experiment most farmers run on their cows.
This goes into the cows even when they are not sick.

I mean you can watch the video Osiris posted and I think it covers a few chemicals that go into cows. These hormones and antibiotics are not regulated by anyone that I know of. I worked on a dairy farm for two years. Basically it was dairy, horses and regular cattle.

I’d also want to know how much of this estrogen is actually in a cup, I bet its far less then the amount of Puss in Cows’ Milk.

Let me guess---another vegetarian heard from.

There is no either soy milk, or cows milk. That is a....false dichotomy perhaps is the term. Anyway, soy milk rises or falls on its own and the properties of cows milk have nothing to do with the discussion. Cow's milk is generally not recommended for many reasons some of which Lazarus pointed out, and there are others.

Of course anything eaten occasionally is not a problem. But if you are talking about consuming it regularly, you are letting the soy lobby conduct an experiment on your body. There are enough xenoestrogens (artificial estrogens) in the environment that we are exposed to without adding any more.

I've posted clues why soy is bad earlier in the thread (and prior threads), google will given anyone interested plenty of information and there is infernity's info. If you are curious, investigate. If not [need smiley shrugging shoulders]. I've said my piece.

Edit: oh and you can google glycemic index and find tables that show you are basically eating....sugar i.e. the rice cakes are treated by the body as sugar of however many calories.

It is an "either or" for me Scott, I like it for breakfast. Also I’m not a Vegetarian.
I partake of Chicken, Turkey, Tuna and some other fishes.

Edited by Set, 27 August 2005 - 09:43 PM.

ok here's something about soy:

does soy rot the brain?

http://www.soyonline...o.nz/Cogfun.htm

infernity, I've translated this and made an Israely chain mail out of it, I got some hate mail in return :-)

ok here's something about soy:

does soy rot the brain?

http://www.soyonline...o.nz/Cogfun.htm

infernity, I've translated this and made an Israely chain mail out of it, I got some hate mail in return :-)



********Paper Excerpt************

11.19 To date, two studies have been published on the effect of soy on human cognitive function.  The first study utilised subjects from the longitudinal Honolulu Heart Program study (White et al, 2000). The participants (Japanese-American men living in Hawaii, born between years 1900 to 1919) were initially recruited in 1965, monitored for heart disease, stroke and cancer and interviewed on their food consumption on two occasions (1965-1967 and 1971-1974).  In addition to these parameters, cognitive function was also assessed (between 1991 and 1993) in a number of individuals (n= 3734, aged between 71-93 years).  A stratified random sample of men from this group (n= 948) underwent further evaluation to investigate the causes of cognitive function impairment.  A number of subjects were accompanied by their partners (n= 502) who were also assessed.  Dietary assessments were conducted by food frequency questionnaire, which recorded the daily or weekly consumption pattern of 26 specific food and drink items including tofu.  This data was also used to estimate tofu consumption of the participant’s partners.

That is based on Tofu consumption; this goes back to those early health food items I spoke of not liking.
I don’t think this equates to Soy Milk, if it does you would need to figure out how much Tofu = a cup of Soy Milk.

Oh I also question the effectiveness of that paper.

"The effects of phytoestrogens on cognitive function"

I read how the study was done and it looks very unreliable.
Not to mention it was done over the period of decades and these people were expected to tell them what was eaten off the top of their heads.
As well as Tofu consumption being figured and no where close to being exact.
I have a huge problem with a study that’s not done scientifically.
There are a ton of other holes I saw just skimming over that paper.

I’m not saying its wrong, I’m saying there’s no evidence in that paper alone.

this is an email I sent in hebrew about soy, jsut a translation of that article with some other stuff Ive gathered

åäðä äàîééì ùìé
îöèáøåú øàéåú ÷ìéðéåú ìëê ùñåéä îùôéòä ìøòä òì äîåç, òåã éåúø àí àúä âáø àå éìã àå òåáø
. (àðé ìà îîìéõ âí ìðùéí – ôùåè ùí äøàéåú ÷öú éåúø ñåúøåú àáì ìîä ì÷çú ñéëåï?)

àðé îãáø òì èåôå èáòåìéí ìîéðäí
ìà øåèá ñåéä àå ìöéèéï
çìá ñåéä îãåìì åéëåì ìäéöøê áîúéðåú (ôçåú îìéèø áùáåò)

äúåôòåú òã ëîä ùéåãåò ðâøîåú îöøéëä ëøåðéú àæ àôùø ìàëåì ôòí á(ôçåú îôòí áùáåò, æå äãéòä äøååçú)
äð÷åãä äéà ùàñåø æä éäéä âåøí îùîòåúé áúôøéè

ìäìï øùéîä çì÷éú ùì îç÷øéí îäùðéí äàçøåðåú òí ìéð÷éí ìîç÷ø òöîå (äè÷ñè äîãòé)
úùìçå ìçáøéí

æä äîç÷ø äëé çæ÷- áâìì âåãì äãâéîä åàåøê äæîï äøàéåú îàåã çæ÷åú
îç÷ø àðèøåôåìåâé áâáøéí îäàæåø äéôðé/àîøé÷ðé ùì äååàé äòìä ùàìå ùöøëå èåôå äøàå ñéîðéí ùì ôâéòä ÷åâðéèéáéú åðèééä âáåää ìãîðèéä
äîç÷ø çéì÷ âáøéí áâéì äòîéãä ì÷áåöä ùì èåôå âáåä(ùúé îðåú åîòìä) ðîåê (ôçåú îëê) åáìé èåôå á6 ùðéí – 1965 òã 1971

ìàçø îëï, áùðéí 91-93 ëùäðáã÷éí äéå áðé 71-93 ðòùå ìäí îáçðéí ÷åâðéèáéí(úôéñúééí ìîàåúâøéí ìåòæéú áéððå) ëîå âí ðáã÷ âåãì äîåç åùàø ñîîðéí ôéæåìåâéí
ðîöàä äúàîä çæ÷ä îàåã áéï àèøåôéä ùì äîåç (ä÷èðä ëúåöàä îîååú úàé), åãéøãåø áéëåìú ä÷åâðéèáéú ìöøéëú äñåéä. ìà ø÷ æä, àìà áîáçðéí ÷åâðéèéáééí ìðùåúéäí ðîöà ÷ùø éùéø áéï öøéëú äñåéä ùì äáòìéí ìãéøãåø áéëåìú ä÷åâðéèéáéú îä ùîöáéò (áöåøä ò÷éôä - àí àëéìú ñåéä àöì äáòì äéà ñîîï ìöøéëú ñåéä àöì äàéùä) ùâí ðùéí çùåôåú ìñéëåï ùáñåéä
äîç÷ø äæä áã÷ àú ëì äúæåðä ùì äðáã÷éí åáëê éëì ìùìåì äúàîä ìîæåï àçø
)1(
äîëðéæí ùéëåì ìäéåú äâåøí äåà ëðøàä ôâéòä ááéèåé âåøí äâãéìä äòöáé áîåç
(BDNF(
àçã îâåøîé äâãéìä äçùåáéí áéåúø ùðúâìå áùðéí äàçøåðåú, ùàçøàé òì úé÷åï åâãéìä ùì úàé îåç å÷ùøéí áîåç
îç÷ø æä(2,3) äøàä àú äôâéòä (áòëáøéí æëøéí) áàæåøéí äîøëæééí ìäúôúçåúï ùì ãîðèéä åàìöäééîø åáëê îéñã àú ä÷ùø

òåã îç÷øéí:

úéðå÷åú ÷åôéí ùäåøëìå áôåøîåìä ñåéä äúôúçå ìàè éåúø åáöåøä ìà èåáä ìòåîú úéðå÷åú ùäåàëìå çìá)9(
æä äîç÷ø ùáò÷áåúéå äåöéà îùøã äáøéàåú äãâðøèéáé àú äîìöåúéå

äúðäâåú àâøñéáéú åçåñø ùéúåôéåú áæëøéí ùäåàëìå ãéàèä ëøåðéú ùì ñåéä(4)

äîç÷ø äæä)5( îøîæ òì úâåáú ñèøñ "ðùéú" áò÷áåú öøéëä ëøåðéú ùì ñåéä åáò÷áåú æàú (à÷ñèøôåìöéä ôùåèä ùìé) ñáéøåú éåúø âáåää ìîçìåú ëîå
úùéùåú ëøåðéú
ôéáøåîéàìâéä
ãéëàåï
åãåîåúéäï

äëé âøåò
òãåéåú ìðæ÷ ìúàéí áîåç åîååú úàé îåç....)6(

öøéä âáåää îàåã ùì ñåéä áäøéåï, àôéìå ìú÷åôä ÷öøä, éëåìä ìôâåò áîòøëú äøáéä ùì äééìåã(7)

ôâéòä áæéëøåï çæåúé áæëøéí (ùéôåø áð÷áåú) )8(

1) http://www.ncbi.nlm....6&dopt=Abstract
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm....1&dopt=Abstract
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm....5&dopt=Abstract
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm....944&query_hl=11
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm....319&query_hl=11
6) http://www.ncbi.nlm....835&query_hl=16
7) http://www.ncbi.nlm....783&query_hl=16
8) http://www.ncbi.nlm....187&query_hl=16
9) http://www.ncbi.nlm....5660&query_hl=7

Edited by liorrh, 27 August 2005 - 09:15 PM.

That is based on Tofu consumption; this goes back to those early health food items I spoke of not liking.
I don’t think this equates to Soy Milk

That is like...this statement:

"I personally don't think that eating plain soy nuts would be any worse than eating bean soup or humus." above.


When you say you do think think soy milk and tofu have the same properties, what are you basing this on?

Ok fini.

That is based on Tofu consumption; this goes back to those early health food items I spoke of not liking.
I don’t think this equates to Soy Milk, if it does you would need to figure out how much Tofu = a cup of Soy Milk.

Oh I also question the effectiveness of that paper.

"The effects of phytoestrogens on cognitive function"

I read how the study was done and it looks very unreliable.
Not to mention it was done over the period of decades and these people were expected to tell them what was eaten off the top of their heads.
As well as Tofu consumption being figured and no where close to being exact.
I have a huge problem with a study that’s not done scientifically.
There are a ton of other holes I saw just skimming over that paper.

I’m not saying its wrong, I’m saying there’s no evidence in that paper alone.

are you a scientist? this type of study is considered one of the strongest circumstantial evidence there is.
they asked those pepole for two years on a multitude of eating habits to eliminate any possible dependent correlation.
after that they have waited 20 years, both the sample size and the length of time are what give this study its credibility.

not only that soy milk is same as tofu, just diluted if I recall correctly.

That is based on Tofu consumption; this goes back to those early health food items I spoke of not liking.
I don’t think this equates to Soy Milk

That is like...this statement:

"I personally don't think that eating plain soy nuts would be any worse than eating bean soup or humus." above.


When you say you do think think soy milk and tofu have the same properties, what are you basing this on?

Ok fini.

Tofu, sometimes called Dofu or bean curd, is a food made by coagulating soy milk with an agent, and then pressing into blocks, similar to the way cheese is made from milk.

This would lead me to believe that it's a concentrated form of Soy Milk rather then just being a cup of Soy Milk per day.