An other method, periodic fasting?

I have been reading some studies lately, and I'm wondering what you all think as to how this does or doesn't contribute to an alternative habit for life extension and health. You've all heard about the whole 'fasting' thing. I always shunned it because 'detoxing' and 'resting your stomach' always seemed like unsupported ideas for health, but there are some interesting alternative explanations.

http://www.nydailyne...48p-78493c.html
While not an extended fast, once every other day is certainly notable. It certainly goes against the rhetoric common to most bodybuilding circles, and even present in CR, that you should be eating many tiny meals a day. These mice could eat as much as they wanted, one meal every other day.

Now, one problem I will note that is obvious in applying it to humans is, what kind of food the mice were eating, relative to them, and what food we eat relative to us. I'm supposing the mice ate pellets and high-fibre high-water content food, possibly filling them up very quickly. In considering these benefits for humans, we should probably take into account that we have much more calorie-dense food to put in our stomachs, getting far more calories than these mice got, which might have simply been a form of caloric restriction from lack of time to eat enough food.

Another problem would be when these mice were drinking water. Researchers may have manipulated the experiment by choosing to feed them after the mice drank a large amount of water. Even with regular feeding times, due to the 2-day schedule mice may not have been able to predict the feeding times, otherwise they may have held off on water to gorge themselves more, as we would.

http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=15717011
This discusses a similar avenue, citing that both infrequent feeding and caloric restriction work. Search for 'dietary restriction' to jump to the right part. It is also mentioned once more at the end, last paragraph before the References.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=14660491
What really surprises me here, although irrelevant to what they're presenting, is that they say the present day human probably eats less calories than our hunter-gatherer ancestors, our positive balance due more to sedentary lifestyle. How much did these guys eat? Anyway, what this contributes is that not just an abundance, but also regular intake of food and sedentary lifestyle, might be more of a control to diet than the absolute amount of calories. This supports periodic fasts, and of course brief spurts of exercise.

http://chetday.com/obesitysleuths.htm
This talks further about how the lack of exercise may aggravate the conditions.

Beyond a support for the idea of periodic fasting, I'm also posting this topic to discuss just how long a caloric cutoff is good for CR. At a certain point with CR, the lack of caloric intake will result in too low an amount of energy to think, and to move. Greater physical demands on the body, either through aerobic exercise (more efficient expenditure of calories for movement), anaerobic exercise (more explosive and strength-oriented, often promoting muscle building), must always come from calories ingested. What would the ideal amount of exercise be to provide the benefits associated with fitness, without requiring so many calories that the lost CRON benefits result in an overall lower state of health?

Another interest is the great amounts of calories expended by the human brain. This is something to be accounted for in caloric restriction. While perhaps some of us might trade some mental energy, speed of functioning, intelligence, temporarily away for an extension of life until rejuvenation methods become available, there is a certain amount each of us will wish to retain, probably above the minimum for survival. At a certain point, if we lose our intelligence (I believe all ImmInst members are smarter than the general public), we may not have the focus to stay the course to proper lifestyle, and keep a skeptical and observation mind.

For those of us who wish to contribute directly to the field of longevity research, caloric inadequacies for full operation of all higher brain functions would inhibit our contributing to the field, and thus lessen our own life spans by the degree that we were not able to contribute. While this may not be as much as we would save by simply thinking slower, innovation is not merely a measure of time, and if by being at this level we avoid our potential to reach a breakthrough, it could mean long delays in such 'Eureka' moments that could last long enough to make our sacrifice useless and negative.

This is why I am interested in the possisbilities of Infrequent Feedings rather than extreme caloric restriction. If it has the same benefits, then you could get the ideal neurogenesis, better feeling of wellbeing and clearheadedness, but not have to worry about lack of energy, and there would be more calories to maintain lean tissues in the body and support higher levels of physical activity.

Of course, I may be overestimating the value of higher calories for thinking and exercising. Exercise, I know, has diminishing returns in terms of adaptation, especially if it strains the tissues, endrocrinological systems, nutrition reserves, etc. It should be key, however, that exercise can be adapted in ideal conditions, using calories efficiently. Often, in desire to lose weight, people will undergo useless ways of expending calories that have no benefits to the organism other than expending them. Fidgeting is often recommended, as is drinking cold water, thermogenic pills, or becoming cold as to shiver.

Perhaps such waste can occur in thinking as well. With limited calories for brain operations, we might be necessitated to use them in a more focused manner? Thinking too much might also be stressful too, leading to lower quality of thought. Overthinking things could be common and lead to obsessing over unimportant matters. Perhaps an efficient expenditure of thought can be done as well. Even so, keeping enough free for exercises to stimulate brain function still shows the purpose in having adequate calories.

Total Wellness: Improve Your Health by Understanding the Body's Healing Systems (1996), by Joseph Pizzorno, N.D.

Fasting

Fasting is a potent and very rapid method for eliminating toxins from our bodies. However, I'm of two minds on fasting and no longer support fasts of over two weeks. For centuries, fasting has been used around the world as an effective therapeutic tool. However, recent research tells us that the toxins released by fasting quickly use up the nutrients in the liver needed for Phase II detoxification. This results in increased toxicity while toxins are being released. This problem can be alleviated by using products that support the liver while engaging in a more modest fast.

Although our culture fears fasting and assumes death is imminent after only a few days, as long as water is available, the average adult can actually go without food for quite a long period of time. As can be seen in Table 5-27, the body has several sources of energy reserve, with protein and fat providing the most. Under extreme circumstances, the average adult can actually survive without food for over two months. This is obviously not recommended! I have supervised water fasts as long as 30 days, although I no longer believe such a long time is healthful. The longest water fast I have done myself was ten days.


Table 5-27 Energy Reserve Utilization
________________________________________________________________________________
_

Energy Source/ Reserve (These estimates are based on 100%
utilization of each fuel)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glucose/ 1 hour

Food in the digestive tract/ 4 to 8 hours

Glycogen/ 12 hours

Amino acids/ 48 hours

Protein/ 3 weeks (if protein were the only fuel used for gluconeo-
genesis)/24 weeks (obligatory loss only)

Triglycerides/ 8 weeks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from page 150-151 of the above entitled book. I thought the material might be of use to anybody contemplating periodic fasting in place of or in addition to calorie restriction diet. There are 4 more sections on fasting that I'll install one at a time below. I was unable to make table 5-27 come out right due to lack of experience with a computer. It's fairly close though. I highly recommend this book to anybody interested in naturopathic medicine.

Edited by elijah3, 26 December 2006 - 06:36 PM.

This is obviously not recommended! I have supervised water fasts as long as 30 days, although I no longer believe such a long time is healthful. The longest water fast I have done myself was ten days.

I wouldn't recommend fasting more than a few days, 3-4 tops. The main benefits start kicking in after 16-18 hours, but after a few days, the lack of essential amino acids will start to have effects. Some might welcome these effects, since e.g. methionine restriction can extend lifespan in rodents. However, if I recall correctly, some CR society heavyweights have weighed in against whether something like this would be beneficial over CR.

Thanks for the advice jaydfox. By any chance, do you know if there's any benefits to dehydration along with fasting? I haven't been able to find anything on the Internet that goes into the technicals of dehydration. Do you know of anything off hand?

Here's my second installation from the book Total Wellness mentioned above. Two more to go.

What happens during a fast

During fasting, the body's metabolic processes change in several ways, according to the length of the fast. The physiology of fasting is a highly ordered series of events that conserve body energy reserves while maintaining the basic metabolic rate (which decreases by about 1% per day during fasting, until it stabilizes at about 75% of normal).* It has been suggested that humans, like other species, have evolved as a survival mechanism special biochemical pathways to subsist for long periods of time without food.* Some believe this has also evolved as an important part of the self-healing process.

The body's response to the lack of energy input can be divided into three stages: early fasting, fasting, and starvation. Maintaining adequate energy resources for metabolism during fasting involves several adaptations, which change as the body moves from one stage to the next.

Normally, glucose, fatty acids, and amino acids are the major energy fuels of the body. The initial physiological response to the lack of food is the breakdown of glycogen by the liver to produce glucose for release into the bloodstream. Glucose is especially needed by the red blood cells and the brain, which consumes about 65% of the total circulating glucose.* Together they consume 100 to 180 gm of glucose per day. Early in fasting, the liver is the sole source of glucose for the bloodstream. However, liver glycogen stores can only supply enough glucose for a few hours. (Although muscle actually contains more glycogen than the liver, it lacks the needed enzymes to convert glycogen to glucose for release into the bloodstream.*) The liver then begins converting amino acids to glucose, a process called gluconeogenesis. Interestingly, later in fasting, the glycogen reserves are restored.

Since liver's amino acid stores are also limited, amino acids from other tissues, primarily the muscles, are accessed. As the fast proceeds, the kidneys become progressively more important in the maintenance of blood glucose levels, and eventually the renal cortex synthesizes more glucose from amino acids than does the liver. If the body continued to require its normal 100 to 180 gm of glucose a day for the brain, gluconeogenesis during fasting would quickly use up much body protein, and death would ensue within three to four weeks. During the early stages of fasting, the body converts 60 to 84 gm of protein to glucose per day.

After two or three days, the body converts to using the fat stores as the primary source of energy.* At this stage, the liver produces energy from the fatty acids released by the breakdown of triglycerides (the storage form of fat) in the fat cells. The brain also changes its metabolic processes and begins to use fatty acids for energy (technically described as oxidation of beta-hydroxybutyrate) instead of sugar. However, there is still a need for approximately 80 gm of glucose a day for the brain, red cells, muscles, and other tissues. This requirement increases significantly during exercise. Some of the needed glucose is synthesized from glycerol, which is released when the fat cells give up fatty acids. The rest of the glucose requirement is met by the catabolism of 18 to 24 gm of protein a day. These metabolic changes result in the elevation of ketones in the blood, which appear in the urine by the third day.

An average 154-pound male has the fat stores to maintain basic caloric requirements for two to three months of fasting. Starvation occurs when the body's fat reserves are depleted and significant protein catabolism again becomes necessary for energy production. The body's protein stores are adequate for only a few weeks, after which essential proteins are utilized and death occurs.

Footnotes

236. Goodhart, R.S.and Shils, M.E.: Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease, 6th ed. Lea & Febiger, Philadelphia, 1980, pp. 738, 826, 983-86, 1086

237. Young, V.R. and Scrimshaw, N.S.: The physiology of starvation. Sci Am 225: 4: 14-21, 1971

238. Reinmuth, O.M., Scheinberg, P. and Bourne, B.: Total cerebral blood flow and metabolism. Arch Neurol 12: 49-66, 1965

239. Saudek, C. and Felig, P.: The metabolic events of starvation. Am J Med 60: 117-26, 1976

240. Cahill,G.F. Jr., Owen, O.E. And Morgan, A.P.:The consumption of fuels during prolonged starvation. Adv Enzyme Regul 6: 143-50, 1968

By any chance, do you know if there's any benefits to dehydration along with fasting? I haven't been able to find anything on the Internet that goes into the technicals of dehydration. Do you know of anything off hand?

Increased GH production is all that I can think of. And a long list of bad things.

Increased GH production is all that I can think of. And a long list of bad things.

Thanks Shepard. Everybody else is telling me dehydration is no good too. I think I'm going to try lengthy juice fasts.

Here's my third installation from the book Total Wellness mentioned above. Two more to go.

Why fasting can be beneficial

Unfortunately, most of the fasting research has been focused on understanding how the body maintains energy levels and determining whether it was effective in treating various diseases. However, some tantalizing research suggests the mechanisms by which fasting helps to promote health. Obviously, it is very effective in removing toxins from the fat (and other) stores, because fat-soluble toxins are rapidly released during fasting. However, probably its most useful effects for detoxification are immune system enhancement, removal of immune complexes from the blood, and removal of food allergens from the intestines.

Changes in the immune system during fasting include: increased macrophage activity, increased cell-mediated immunity (T lymphocytes and lymphokines), decreased complement factors, decreased antigen-antibody complexes, increased immunoglobulin levels, increased neutrophil bactericidal activity, depressed lymphocyte blastogenesis, heightened monocyte killing and bactericidal function, and enhanced natural killer cell activity.** The net effect appears to be an increase in the toxin scavenging activity of the white cells combined with elimination of immune complexes, which can cause widespread inflammatory damage to the body.

The leaky gut syndrome may help to explain why fasting leads to improvement of chronic inflammatory diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis. Fasting reduces gut permeability by allowing the damaged intestines to heal when the offending foods are removed.*

Chronic food restriction has been well-documented as increasing longevity and decreasing cancer in animals. This is probably partially due to an increased rate of detoxification. For example, in rat research, it was found that food restriction increased the detoxification of the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (benzopyrene), which are carcinogenic. This detoxification process may be important in the protective action of reduced food intake.* Table 5-28 lists diseases that have been alleviated by fasting. Note, however, that some of this research is very old and has not been verified by more recent rigorous standards.


Table 5-28 Diseases Alleviated by Fasting
________________________________________________________________________________
__

Arthritis **
Autoimmune disease *
Atherosclerosis *
Diabetes**
Epilepsy *
Leaky gut *
Obesity **
Pancreatitis *
PCB and DDT contamination *(extreme caution must be exercised)


Footnotes

241. Uden, A.M., Trang, L., Venizelos, N. and Palmblad, J.: Neutrophil function and clinical performances after total fasting in patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Ann Rheum Dis 42:45-51, 1983

242. Palmblad, J., Cantell, K., Holm, G. et al.: Acute energy deprivation in man: Effect on serum immunoglobulins, antibody response, complement factors 3 & 4, acute phase reactants and interferon producing capacity of blood lymphocytes. Clin Exp Immunol 30: 50-55, 1977

243. Darlington, L.G. And Ramsey, N.W.: Diets for rheumatoid arthritis. Lancet 338: 1209, 1991

244. Wall, K. et al.: Food restriction increases detoxification of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in the rat. Carcinogenesis 13: 519-23, 1992

245. Lithell, H., Bruce, A., Gustafsson, I. B. et al.: A fasting and vegetarian diet treatment trial on chronic inflammatory disorders. Acta Derm Venereol 63: 397-403, 1983

246. Skoldstam, L., Lindstrom, F.D. and Lindholm, B.: Impaired con A suppressor cell activity in patients with rheumatoid arthritis shows normalization during fasting. Scand J Rheumatol 12: 4: 369-73, 1983

247. Brod, J., Pavkova, L., Fencl, V. et al.: Influence of fasting on the immunological reactions and course of acute glomerulonephritis. Lancet 1:760-63, 1958

248. Gresham, G. A.: Is atheroma a reversible lesion? Atherosclerosis 23: 379-91, 1976

249. Allen, F.M.: Prolonged fasting in diabetes. Am J Med Sci 150: 480-85, 1915

250. Vessby, B., Boberg, M., Karlstrom, B. et al.: Improved metabolic control after supplemented fasting in overweight type 2 diabetic patients. Acta Med Scand 216: 67-74, 1984

251. Lennox, W.G. and Cobb, S.: Studies in epilepsy. Arch Neurol Psych 20:711-79, 1928

252. Sundquist, T., Lindstrom, F., Magnusson, K. and Skoldstam, L.: Influence of fasting on intestinal permeability and disease activity in patients with rheumatoid arthritis shows normalization during fasting. Scand J Rheumatol 11: 33-38, 1982

253. Folin, O. and Denis, W.: On starvation and obesity with special references to acidosis. J Biol Chem 21: 183-92, 1915

254. Stewart, W. K. and Fleming, L. W.: Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration. Postgrad Med J 49: 203-9, 1973

255. Navarro, S., Rose, E., Aused, R. et al.: Comparison of fasting, nasogastric suction and cimetidine in the treatment of acute pancreatitis. Digestion 30: 224-30, 1984

256. Imamura, M. and Tung, T.: A trial of fastig cure for PCB poisoned patients in Taiwan. Am J Ind Med 5:147-53, 1984

Edited by elijah3, 28 December 2006 - 02:20 AM.

Here's the fourth installation from the book Total Wellness mentioned above. One more to go.

Classic (water) fasting

Fasting is classically defined as abstinence from all food and drink, except water, for a specific period of time, usually for a therapeutic or religious purpose. Fasting is differentiated from starvation because, when properly implemented, it spares essential tissue and utilizes non-essential tissues(i.e., fat) for fuel. In contrast, starvation is the process in which the body uses essential tissue for fuel. Fasting carried on too long becomes starvation, which in time leads to death. In general, water fasts of up to one week are safe, except in those who are emaciated, children, and pregnant or lactating women. Those with any serious disease–e.g., diabetes, heart disease, cancer, or Gilbert's syndrome—should only engage in a fast under the supervision of a physician experienced with therapeutic fasts.

There are many protocols for water fasting. The protocol I recommend is based on my experience (I have personally fasted for a week or more several times and have supervised a large number of patients on extended fasts) and the advice of Dr. Trevor K. Salloum and Dr. Alec Burton found in the chapter “Therapeutic Fasting” in A Textbook of Natural Medicine.

In general, therapeutic fasting of more than five-days duration is probably best conducted under supervision at an in-patient facility. Several facilities now exist in the U.S., Canada, England, and Australia, and these centers follow the standards of care and principles of ethics established by the International Association of Professional Natural Hygienists. The basic procedure I recommend:

1. Days one to two: raw fruits and vegetables
2. Days three to seven: pure water only
3. Day eight: a small amount of fruit several times during the day
4. Day nine: Modest amounts of raw fruit and lightly cooked vegetables
5. Day ten: Back to a healthful diet

Large amounts of pure water (distilled, spring, or reverse osmosis) should be drunk during the fast. While some fasting experts recommend drinking diluted fruit and vegetable juices, such a protocol is considered to be a restricted diet or modified food fast, not a classic fast. Also, the continued consumption of carbohydrates inhibits the body's conversion to ketotic metabolism. Another advantage of drinking only water is that hunger almost totally disappears, conversion to fatty acid utilization occurs more quickly and efficiently, weight loss is more dramatic and is from fat rather than protein stores, healing time is shorter, and you don't feel as debilitated.*

The optimal quantity of water to ingest during fasting is best determined by thirst, but should be at least four glasses a day.* Large amounts of water are critical since the increased levels of toxins released in the circulation need to be excreted in the urine. If the urine is too concentrated, there is a greater risk of damaging the kidneys. Although it may sound reasonable to use enemas to help eliminate toxins, most fasting authorities discourage their use.

Another very important aspect of fasting is getting adequate rest. Energy conservation is necessary to allow maximum healing and to avoid unnecessary breakdown of protein to supply glucose. Short walks and light stretching can improve one's sense of well-being, but intense exercise will inhibit repair and elimination.

Side effects, other than discomfort, from fasting are rarely serious, but fasting may uncover hidden pathology. Discomfort during fasting may be due to withdrawal from stimulants, withdrawal from food allergens, hypoglycemia, acidosis, and high levels of toxins released into the circulation. Some fasters experience headaches, insomnia, skin irritations, dizziness, nausea, coated tongue, body odor, aching limbs, palpitations, mucus discharge, and visual and hearing disturbances.

In some people, complications occur that necessitate breaking the fast early. Examples of such conditions include a sudden drop in blood pressure, mental confusion, lowered body temperature, extreme weakness, shortness of breath, vomiting, diarrhea, gastrointestinal bleeding, liver dysfunction, kidney insufficiency, gout, a rapid or slow or irregular heart beat, and serious emotional distress.


Footnotes

257. Keys, A., Brozek, J., Henschel, A. et al,: The Biology of Human Starvation, vols. 1 and 2. University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis, MN, 1950

258. Young, V.R. and Scrimshaw, N.S.: The physiology of starvation. Sci Am 225: 4: 14-21, 1971

Fasting is deffinately good advice. My experiment for fasting 7 days was good, started drinking watter on the 2 day and I think the third day was the hardest, as organism finally figures out that it needs to switch over to using bodyfat more, the last 2 days it was not easy to walk around.

Given the need for essential amino acids, I would speculate that fasts longer than about 2-3 days should include small amounts of quality protein, even if only 20g a day. That'd be about 80 calories, but should help stave off the worst effects of lack of essential amino acids. Probably some fish oil and multivitamin/supplements as well, even if it pushes total calories a little over 100 a day.

Again, just a speculation. I'd at least do the protein. Of course, I'm a lightweight: I've never fasted more than about 36 hours or so (dinner of day 1 to breakfast of day 3, or breakfast of day 1 to dinner of day 2).

jaydfox,
Do you think there is any harm to not drinking water for the first day or two at the beginning of the fast like jans mentions?

Below is the last installation from the book Total Wellness mentioned above. It appears on page 155.

Modified Fasts

Several products are now on the market that aid the detoxification process. A good example is a product called “UltraClear Plus,” produced by HealthComm and designed by Jeff Bland, Ph.D. (Please note, the author derives no commercial benefit from these or other products or supplements mentioned in this book.) When used properly as part of a fast, these products initiate the same detoxification process, albeit at a lower rate, while ensuring the availability of the critical nutrients needed to maintain energy and the liver's detoxification process. I strongly advise those interested in fasting to use this methodology first. It is far less uncomfortable, will produce healthful results and appears to place less strain on the liver. The intensity of a fast can be adjusted according to your needs. At one extreme, the only thing consumed is water and the meal replacement powder. This will produce a detoxification process almost as intense as classic water fasting. At the other extreme, a diet of raw and steamed fruits and vegetables is consumed along with the meal replacement powder. This will also result in detoxification, but at a lowered rate.

I've been looking into intermittent CR lately. Here are a couple things that I've found.

http://ajpendo.physi...ract/288/5/E965
"Effects of caloric restriction on cell proliferation in several tissues in mice: role of intermittent feeding" Results of a 5% reduction from ad libitum diet along with intermittent fasting (fed 3 times/week) were approximately equal to 33% CR without fasting. This is a pretty brutal regimen that I doubt I could keep up. However, in http://carcin.oxford...t/full/23/5/817
"Adult-onset calorie restriction and fasting delay spontaneous tumorigenesis in p53-deficient mice" it was found that a fast of only 1 day per week "suppressed carcinogenesis—even when started late in life in mice predestined to develop tumors due to decreased p53 gene dosage—support efforts to identify suitable interventions influencing energy balance in humans as a tool for cancer prevention." Comparisons here were ad libitum (AL), 40% CR (CR), and 1d/w fasting equal in total caloric intake to 14% CR. "Multiple tumor burden, arising from different tissues, was 40% (13/32) in the AL-fed mice. Relative to the AL group, multiple tumor burden was lower in the CR group (7/31; 23%; P = 0.10) and fasted group (8/31; 26%; P = 0.16). Similarly, the proportion of mice in each group with malignant tumors that metastasized, relative to the AL group (24/32; 75%), was lower in the CR group (17/31; 55%; P = 0.08) and the fasted group (19/31; 61%; P = 0.18).

The impact on lifespan for the 1d/w fasted mice was intermediate between AL and 40% CR, but looked from a graph to be pretty good. Clearly there is benefit to be had from fasting, the question is how much of a fast do you need (ie, no calories in the fasting period, or reduced? If reduced, what can you get away with?) and how often do you need to do it? How long does it take for the desired stress response to bounce back after a fast? Does it work in humans? A 1955 Spanish study suggests that it does:

Valejo EA, La dieta del hambre a dias alternos en la alimentacion de los viejos. Rev Clin Exp. 1957; 63: 25-31. (The alternate-day hunger diet in the feeding of the elderly.) An actual clinical study of Intermittent CR in humans. 60 residents of home for elderly, avg age 72. Half got 2300 Cal/d, other half alternated days between the same 2300 Cal diet and one with only 885 Cal, avging 1593 Cal/d for 3 y. Overall nutritional plan was not very good, but CR group spent half as many days in infirmary, and only half as many died.

If it turned out that I could eat my normal fairly healthy diet six days a week, and could have 800 Cal on the 7th, and that was almost as good as full blown CR, (this is a fantasy regimen, not yet shown to work) that's something I could really do. To sort it out, somebody needs to run some more experiments, preferably looking at valid biomarkers in humans, should such things actually exist.

niner, I sent an e-mail to the Alliance for Aging Research with a link to your post requesting they consider the experiments you suggest. I'm on a vegan diet and fast periodically and think more research would be helpful too.

Thanks, elijah3! I hope that it gets someone interested.

As a part of my regimen for the past three weeks I have fasted one day per week, from 10 pm Sat. Night till 10 am Monday morning (actually a total of 36 hours). I consumed my normal supplement regimen including fish oil and I also consumed a total of 40 grams of whey protein powder (so I guess this would be a modified fast of sorts). It seemed logical to add the protein as I am not interested in losing hard earned muscle tissue during this time. I have noticed that I feel much better during the week after my fast which makes some of the discomfort, particularly early on worth it. I can't see myself doing a longer fast as it would cut into the work week and I don't have the luxury of being so energy depleted for too long.

I am particularly curious if my addition of protein powder seems to make sense as an alternative to the body catabolizing it's internal essential amino stores and if this will have any negative effects on the detoxification that a fast provides. I have noticed that I am actually more hungry in the first hour or so after I consume the protein powder than when I am purely subsisting on water only making me think that perhaps the protein is making my body shift from internal reserves back to anticipation of external calories. Any experiences?

I did this for everyother day. My protein intake was around 80-100 grams or so per fasting day, for the reason of not loosing muscle.
What I recall I actually had atleast the same if not more energy on the days that I didn't eat. And it was great to have all that extra time normally
spent eating and cooking. [thumb]

I ended it after 3 months though, mostly because I started to workout more than 3 times a week. I guess I could try to utilize something like 1 or 2 day fast per week into my schedule.

I have noticed that I am actually more hungry in the first hour or so after I consume the protein powder than when I am purely subsisting on water only making me think that perhaps the protein is making my body shift from internal reserves back to anticipation of external calories. Any experiences?

I don't recall having the same experience. In my case the little amount of protein pretty much satisfied any hunger I had.

I totally agree with fasting but in addition to long fasts I would recommend intermittent fasting as well. I have been doing this for over a year and it seems to be working really well. You bascially water fast all day and have all of your meals at night, and do this on a daily basis. No breakfast, no lunch, just fast, and then eat at night. This is beneficial as well because you allow your body to detoxify on a daily basis. It may take a few days to get used to but it is pretty awesome. And at night you can eat as much as you want but it is best to keep the foods natural and not eat junk food.

A good example of daily intermittent fasting is The Warrior Diet. But you do not need to know about The Warrior Diet to have the instinct to fast. I find that eating heavy meals during the day really makes me feel sluggish and lethargic.

Water fast all day every day, and eat all of your meals at night. Do this on a daily basis, combine this with eating natural foods (at night), go on longer fasts during the year and you have a perfect relationship with nature, you will live long.

I also like to fast and have been doing so as an alternative to calorie restriction. I fast for two straight days a week and live on a healthy vegan diet without any junk food. I've been doing this for the past 5 months, but have practiced fasting since the 1970s, and been on a vegetarian diet since the mid 1980s. In the past, my fasts were lengthy (from 3 to 7 to 21 days at a time), but only a few times a year. I was also subjected to a substantial calorie restriction diet against my will for about 4 years from 2001 to 2005.

I find that eating heavy meals during the day really makes me feel sluggish and lethargic.

Yea, I noticed this too. In the book The Ministry of Healing, by Ellen G. White, the author mentions that:

The surplus food burdens the system and produces morbid, feverish conditions. It calls an undue amount of blood to the stomach, causing the limbs and extremities to chill quickly. It lays a heavy tax on the digestive organs, and when these organs have accomplished their task, there is a feeling of faintness or languor. Some who are continually overeating call this all-gone feeling hunger; but it is caused by the over-worked condition of the digestive organs. At times there is a numbness of the brain, with disinclination to mental or physical effort.

These unpleasant symptoms are felt because nature has accomplished her work at an unnecessary outlay of vital force and is thoroughly exhausted. The stomach is saying, "Give me rest." But with many the faintness is interpreted as a demand for more food; so instead of giving the stomach rest, another burden is placed upon it. As a consequence the digestive organs are often worn out when they should be capable of doing good work.

... Instead of this the food should be more simple, and less should be eaten in order that the mind may be clear and vigorous to comprehend spiritual things. A clogged stomach means a clogged brain. ...

(chpt. 23, p.307)

Water fast all day every day, and eat all of your meals at night. Do this on a daily basis, combine this with eating natural foods (at night), go on longer fasts during the year and you have a perfect relationship with nature, you will live long.

This makes sense to me. I've been trying to do two meals a day as close together as possible, but in the day time. I might try it in the evening or night in the future. Thanks for posting this idea.

I totally agree with that quote. You can't possibly think clearly and productively at your maximum peak if you are frequently eating heavy meals during the day. I see people at bistros at lunchtime and they are eating so many heavy meals, especially junk food.

I used to be on calorie restriction eating three meals a day but it did not seem to work. I always felt tired. I never felt satisfied. I felt like I was depriving myself all the time. It wasn't fun. Now that I am fasting on a daily basis I know that my body is cleansing itself as every hour goes by. It definitely shows in your skin and eyes though while fasting. You will notice that when you are fasting your skin will shine and your eyes will sparkle. Now that is a sign of baby clean health.

Unfortunately there has been a lot of brainwashing when it comes to food. We are told to always eat breakfast because it is the most important meal of the day. We are told to always eat frequent meals. They use our professional athletes to support their breakfast cereals. But when you look at most of these breakfast cereals they are high in sugar, low in protein (without the milk) and have a high glycemic index. I honestly don't see the point in eating breakfast anymore and there are a lot of great fasting professionals that would agree such as Paul Bragg, author of the Miracle of Fasting.

Breakfast is not the most important meal of the day. The amount of toxins in the world we live in is at an all time high. Not only in the food we eat, the water we drink, but also the air we breathe and the bathroom products we use. Breakfast inhibits detoxification. Your body cannot detoxify when you are eating heavy meals during the day.

Your body will produce more energy when fasting rather than eating constantly. Your body has tremendous energy stores from glycogen, fat cells, toxins and recycling dead cell tissues.

Fasting also manipulates your hormones to reach a maximum metabolic efficiency. Fasting boosts glucagon and growth hormone whilst lowering insulin. Now you can't do that when you are eating your normal bowl of cereal or toast for breakfast.

Thanks for mentioning Paul Bragg and his book The Miracle of Fasting. He was mentioned somewhere in one of these health threads but I was never able to relocate the thread.

After reading your post, I found a book in our library called Fasting: The Ultimate Diet, by Allan Cott, M.D. The author mentions Paul Bragg and his experience with fasting. On page 22 it says:

Paul C. Bragg, of California, a "life extension specialist," has fasted at least one day every week of his adult life. At the age of 85 he described himself as "a human dynamo," and was climbing mountains. (Nine years later he is still going strong.) Mr. Bragg discovered early that even a two-day fast "will cleanse out an accumulation of toxic debris from your circulation system and vital organs so efficiently and effortlessly that you will promptly experience a powerful sense of rejuvenation of body and mind."

Just noticed there's a lot of books and information out there on fasting for health worth reading.

http://www.herbalrem...le-fasting.html

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/0803893825

http://www.biblio.co...s/60494829.html

http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/1583331700

http://www.phifoundation.org/fast.html

http://books.google....DmTOceQ#PPP8,M1

http://www.fasting.com/problem.html

http://books.google....3MbAoM#PPT23,M1

http://links.jstor.o...TOR-enlargePage

http://www.doctoryou.../dansville.html (about the middle of the page)

http://www.amazon.co...0719812-9220020

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Paul_Bragg

Pythagoras lived 2,500 years ago. He fasted for 40 days so he could be smarter when he took an examination. His theorem was so brilliant that when Einstein came up with his theory of relativity, the pythagoreon theorem is used to figure out how much time is slowed down and how much distances are contracted. Fasting gives the body a chance to catch up on its cleansing work. This site has quotes on fasting from 17 different MDs. ****diet and fasting

edited by Matthias: link disabled

Edited by Matthias, 05 June 2007 - 02:59 PM.

Below is a list of reasons to fast I found in chapter one of the book Fasting : The Ultimate Diet, by Allan Cott, M.D.

                                                                1.
                                                          Why Fast?

1. To lose weight the quickest and easiest way
2. To feel better physically and mentally
3. To look and feel younger
4. To save money
5. To give the whole system a rest
6. To clean out the body
7. To lower blood pressure and cholesterol levels
8. To cut down on smoking and drinking
9. To get more out of sex
10. To let the body heal itself
11. To relieve tension
12. To end dependence on drugs
13. To sleep better
14. To digest food better
15. To regulate bowels
16. To feel euphoric
17. To sharpen the senses
18. To quicken mental processes
19. To save time
20. To boost self-esteem
21. To learn better eating habits
22. To share with the hungry
23. To gain control of oneself
24. To seek spiritual revelations
25. To observe religious rites
26. To call attention to social issues
27. To slow the aging process

Lately, I've been advocating fasting - along with Bible study - as a part of an alternative program of self-rehabilitation to prisoners in correctional facilities. Prison officials are notorious for denying prisoners access to adequate programs of rehabilitation, so the only thing available is self-devised programs to improve oneself in spite of the dismal, antisocial, and dehabilitative conditions that make success difficult. See, for example, Commission on Safety and Abuse in Americas Prisons, at http://www.prisoncom....org/report.asp, and http://members.cox.n...tionPrisons.htm.

If anybody has any suggestions, I would definitely like to hear them.

SO if you eat less then 2000 calories a day then you will lose weight?
ANna23@gigp.com

I don't know, I've never counted calories like the people on calorie restriction do. I just stick to a vegan - no junk food - diet and fast 2 days out of the week.

If that's a current picture of you in your avatar, I would say you don't need to lose any weight. You could still fast for health and longevity benefits, however.

I think I read somewhere that Paul C. Bragg's daughter or wife would only fast one or two days a month because she was on the thin side. You can read about Patricia Bragg, who is following in her father's footsteps, at http://www.bragg.com...howdetails.html. I think she has a book out on fasting too.

After reading this discussion and reading the book The Longevity Diet, I was motivated to give fasting a go.


I'd like to share my fasting experience.

I haven't ever done it before, and plan to do it again.

It was for 24 hours, starting at 6:30pm during the middle of the week.
Nothing entered my mouth/stomach for 24 hours except water whenever I wanted it.

At about 11am the next day (T=16.5h) I felt a little hungry, which is when we usually
have a mid-morning snack, but I passed it in about 5-10 minutes.

Other than that I never felt a great desire to eat, except out of habit.
It's interesting to see how much of a social role food plays in our lives - it made
me realise how often we eat because the clock tells us to, not our bodies.

By the time T=24h rolled around I wasn't really hungry.

Still had plenty of energy [played table tennis for 30 minutes and brisk walking for 3km],
had a very clear, still mind and felt relaxed.

Even if it doesn't cleanse / detoxify you, fasting is a good way to decrease your weekly caloric intake
quite dramatically - though I would suggest that you plan your exercise and social calendar around it.

I think the idea of a 'rest' day seems very natural, and let's face it - when does your digestive system
get a rest normally?

Cheers guys!

Edited by robbie7, 17 July 2007 - 01:38 AM.

I've been trying alternate-day fasting now for a few weeks and I'm amazed at how much better I feel and the energy I have when I'm not eating.

Every day at 6pm is when I switch from my feed days to fasting days. So in other words 24 fast 24 feed. I drink reverse osmosis water whenever I want during my fast and then eat whenever I want or when I have the time during my feeding phase.

It's an amazing feeling. I feel more alive during my fast and my senses seem to be enhanced. The energy I have during fasting was a surprise. I do strength training using compound barbell movements and I feel so much stronger when fasting vs when I've been eating all day.

I've got some questions for those fasting:

Do you take any sort of supplements at all during a fast? To make up for lack of nutrients, antioxidants, etc?

Do any of you lift weights/body build? If so, what does it do to your muscles in terms of building/sustaining?

I think the idea of a 'rest' day seems very natural, and let's face it - when does your digestive system
get a rest normally?

Yea, I agree. The whole body needs a Sabbath rest to stay healthy.

I've been trying alternate-day fasting now for a few weeks and I'm amazed at how much better I feel and the energy I have when I'm not eating.

Every day at 6pm is when I switch from my feed days to fasting days. So in other words 24 fast 24 feed. I drink reverse osmosis water whenever I want during my fast and then eat whenever I want or when I have the time during my feeding phase.

It's an amazing feeling. I feel more alive during my fast and my senses seem to be enhanced. The energy I have during fasting was a surprise. I do strength training using compound barbell movements and I feel so much stronger when fasting vs when I've been eating all day.

I think you're on to something with the alternate day fasting. I've been fasting two days in a row once a week, but I think I might try your way for awhile.

Do you take any sort of supplements at all during a fast? To make up for lack of nutrients, antioxidants, etc?

I only use vitamin B-12 and eat a healthy vegan diet with a lot flax seed and walnuts in my buck wheat cereal just about every day. In the future, I might add a fish oil supplement.

Do any of you lift weights/body build? If so, what does it do to your muscles in terms of building/sustaining?

I do chin-ups and push-ups, but not as often as I should. I might start using the weights in the near future. Sounds like a good idea.