ImmInst.org Forums: Resveratrol extends lifespan in mice and health - ImmInst.org Forums

Thank you Andrew for your reply. I appreciate your concern about the product and understand how things like the paperwork and a different price on the import declaration might be reason for that concern. I apologise for being a bit harsh in my post. It was an unwarranted over reaction on my part. I promised not to continue this thread but felt that your last posting clearly deserved a reply and apology.

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No, they have another product, hard to find on the site, if they are still selling it:

http://tinyurl.com/26q6rd (scroll down to the first product)
which is speced at http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc....images/8629.jpg

Resveratrol Powder, pure polygonum cuspidatum 50% extract. 25 grams. 125, 100mg servings per container. For those using higher dosages of resveratrol. $12.00 Code 862.9

They do not specify the emodin content, which should be part of the assay on this material, and should be specified on the COA. IF it is not, the emodin content will be well over 10% because low emodin product can be sold at a higher price.

This is a powder that I could have bought for $108 a kilo (50 kilo lots) in December, which would have cost $140 two weeks ago, and now would cost over $200 if you could find someone willing to sell it. That's assuming low emodin, under 5%. You can save 10 to 20% if you don't need low emodin. A little emodin is not really so bad, but 100 mg of it will be unpleasant for most people. 10 or 15 grams may be tolerable for most people.

To answer another question: A 50% trans-resveratrol extract from Polygonum cuspidatum consists of 50 to 51% trans-resveratrol, <0.5% cis-resveratrol (as long as it is kept away from ultraviolet light, such as direct sun, fluorescent lights, or unshielded halogen) and the remainder isd miscellaneous anthocyanins and other compounds normally found in polygonum cuspidatum: polydatin,(resveratrol-3-O-Beta-D-glucoside); emodin, physcion, chrysophanol, physcion-8-O-Beta-D-glucoside, emodin-8-O-Beta-D glucoside, fallacinol; citreorosein, questin, protocatechuicacid, catechin, 2,5-dimethyl-7-hydroxychromone; 7-hydroxyl-4-methoxy-5-methylcoumarin; torachrysone-8-O-D-glucoside; B-sitosterolglucoside, glucose, rhamnose, polysaccharides.

None of these are harmful, and the root itself is edible.

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I know import value is often not declared at retail value, but as replacement value to the shipper. This is usually done with wholesale goods. I initially thought the flu product was worthless, because of the way it was marketed, but I've heard by word of mouth that it works, and I've found some material in pub med indicating the main ingredient, Chinese star-anise, may have anti-viral and anti-fungal properties. It has been a persistent folk remedy in several cultures for colds, flu, skin infections and other ailments.

Old joke: How do you tell when a salesman is lying? Answer: His lips are moving.

Salesmen lie, and the good ones believe their lies. Sometimes it is over-enthusiasm, sometimes it is a predatory disrespect. The predators never apologize. Unlike another resveratrol promoter, Maxhealth (James Betz) has apologized, and it seems to have been difficult and humbling for him. I'd let him start over and see if he sticks to facts. Judge his product on its merits, once proven. If you still don't like the way it's marketed, or the salesman's personality, don't buy it. But if it is what it is purported to be, it could be the best way for many people to get a high enough dose of resveratrol in a capsule to meet the 5mg/kg needed to get the benefits promised in Sinclair's papers.

FWIW: I am currently taking between 400 and 500 mg a day of Orchid's synthetic 98% resveratrol, thanks to Paul Wakfer's coordinated group purchase. This is the gold standard for resveratrol. I have samples of 98% extract from P. cuspidatum, for which I am awaiting lab analysis.

I've read about the Orchid synthetic that can be obtained through Paul Wakfer. Those of you who have obtained it, how do you consume it? Do you weigh it out and put in a glass of wine or some capsule?
I few years ago, I obtained RSV via Sigma-Aldrich which was 99% by GC. Just adding a few scoopfuls of this powder to a glass of red wine was cumbersome. It is very powdery and one exhale will send it throughout the kitchen. This was before I knew it had the possibility of longevity effects. I consumed it for heart health reasons, and would only add it to wine.
So how are the rest of you ingesting this Orchid RSV? Thanks in advance for your input.

Re: Orchid RSV. Off-white fine powder. I've mixed it in various fluids, and usually take with meals. Dissolves in sugar free lemon-grapefruit soda quite well and even tastes decent. Could sprinkle on food or in smoothie, I suppose, but I don't know how it might affect the flavor and integrity of the RSV.

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Tamiflu is made from star-anise. I'm not shure but it might very well be a highly specific star-anise extract ultimately.

to put things into perspective :-)

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Hi Maxwatt!

Couple of questions:

1. Don't you think the 5 mg/kg level for human RSV effectiveness is highly speculative and largely an educated guestimate as well as the level Sinclair claims to be supplementing himself?

2. What is your source for the 98% P. cuspidatum extract?

Thanks!

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1. I think 5mg/kg is slightly more than Sinclair's mice received, adjusted for metabolic and size differences. This scaling factor is accurate with other substances. In mice, said dose would be about 4 times that, around 20mg/kg. There appears to be a consistant dose-response relationship with resveratrol; the FDA-sponsored toxicology study found little cause for concern: Nephritic problems arose in mice on doses of 1000mg/kg/day, which would be around half a pound a day of resveratrol in humans by an approximate 4.3 scaling factor, so there is a lot of headroom at the 5mg/kg dose. It is probably not optimum, if anything it is likely low but still showing benefit. Given the toxicology studies and the yeast/worm/mouse studies, the in-vitro human cell studies, I think unpleasant surprises are vanishingly unlikely. Still possible, but even when toxic effects were produced in rats on high doses, they were reversed on cessation of administration. The herb that commercial resveratrol is mostly derived from, Hu Zhang (Polygonum cuspidatum), and the related He Shou We (polygonum multiflorum) have a very long history of use in Chinese medecine. Neuro-toxic effects have been noted with very high doses of he shou wu, over 14 gm /day of the cured root, concentration unknown, but the effects are reversed on reducing the dose. That's why I am comfortable at 5 mg/kg/day.

2. This would be premature.

FWIW Longevinex is shipping the new 100mg capsules. It doesn't appear in the website yet, but I received notification today that they're shipping me freebies to make up for a botched order two months ago. I don't know if they're upping the price.

the so called SUPER Longevinex (100 mg resveratrol) is the same price as the normal Longevinex (40 mg)

It is on the website and has been for a while:

Longevinex Product Ordering

Sorry, fearfrost, I was only looking at the page with labeling and ingredients. I stand corrected.

Emodin, present in most Resveratrol formulations, is an anthraquinone. Anthraquinones build up in the liver over time possibly leading to hepatotoxicity, and consequently renal impairment.

I've found these two case studies (and more):
http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/.../full/19/7/1916
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract

This information has made me very wary of taking resveratrol supplements containing emodin for any length of time.

Anyone with any insights?

Hmmm, I'll have to research this some more. When I do a search on pubmed for "emodin and liver" all the results come up as hepa-protective. However, the first link does have some interesting information II'll have to look at in more detail.

Another pubmed link to look at.

"Emodin has the effect of promoting liver regeneration and improving liver function in rats after reduced size transplantation. The possible mechanism is improving proliferation of liver cell and protecting liver cells from injury."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...2&dopt=Abstract

Thanks for the link. I may have been too hasty with my judgement regarding hepatotoxicity, which isn't necessarily directly tied to emodin itself, but another anthraquinone. Although emodin in conjunction with other substances, perhaps NSAIDS, may possibly have the same effect.

Does anyone have any good references with regard to the renal effects of emodin? Some toxicity info is here: http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objecti...473662E6EA1FB05

I'm not sure how this translates into anything meaningful with respect to the amounts present in resveratrol supplements.

I've got three bottles of the Solaray Resveratrol, which I'm not sure I'm going to take at this point. Which supplements do not have emodin?

These are gigantic doses. 100mg/kg to 1.1g/kg!!! To put this in perspective a high emodin resveratrol (20% emodin) of 500mg would contain 100mg of emodin.

"Groups of 65 male and 65 female rats were fed diets containing 0, 280, 830, or 2,500 ppm emodin (equivalent to average daily doses of approximately 110, 320, or 1,000 mg/kg to males and 120, 370, or 1,100 mg/kg to females) for 105 weeks."

Conclusions copied for the lazy:
"Under the conditions of these 2-year feed studies, there was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in male F344/N rats exposed to 280, 830, or 2,500 ppm. There was equivocal evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in female F344/N rats based on a marginal increase in the incidence of Zymbal's gland carcinoma. There was equivocal evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in male B6C3F1 mice based on a low incidence of uncommon renal tubule neoplasms. There was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in female B6C3F1 mice exposed to 312, 625, or 1,250 ppm.

Exposure of rats to emodin resulted in increased incidences of renal tubule hyaline droplets and pigmentation in males, increased incidences of renal tubule hyaline droplets in females, and increased severities of renal tubule pigmentation in males and females. Emodin exposure resulted in increased incidences of renal tubule pigmentation in male and female mice and increased incidences of nephropathy in female mice.

Incidences of mononuclear cell leukemia decreased in male and female rats exposed to 2,500 ppm"

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There is an informative post on emodin with references on the morelife group by Paul Wakfer:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/morel...fe/message/1339

The question is the dose. I was very unhappy with 250 mg of emodin a day. Paul has said he can tolerate 300 mg. I find 50 to 100 mg of emodin is still an effective laxative. Some people say they get used to the amount in their resveratrol supplements. IF you ramp up your dose, or combine low emodin Resv with higher emodin supplements, and you find it tolerable, I'd say go ahead and use it.

If it were not for the (undesired) laxative effect it would be beneficial. Perhaps a little of it is a good thing. Some of the benefits documented by Paul include:

increases glucose uptake in 3T3-Ll cells

blocks the SARS coronavirus spike protein and angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 interaction.

anti-cariogenic

Antidiabetic

treats murine nonalcoholic fatty liver induced by high caloric laboratory chow.

Do you think we should cycle RESV use?
- Essentially if someone stopped taking it for a length of time would there be an adverse reaction?

Dunno. So far, even a high levels, subjectively, with the exception of emodin effects from high emodin preparations, I don't think I'd detect I was taking it. Off hand, I don't know of any reason to cycle, or of any specific experiments investigating cyclical RESV use. Perhaps if one suspected toxicity via contaminant in one's RESV preparation cycling might mitigate the toxin's impact.

ISTM cycling of any preparation containing significant emodin would result in more issues (bowel motility variability), given my experience so far, anyway.

I don't know... I don't like that super-longevinex and their own (!) unifying theorie of aging :-) whoa. (Now Longevinex is a super-chelator for copper and iron and that does the trick too since you get old due to. erm. calcium?? hm... )