• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Probiotics - consumed daily and continuosly?


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 leer

  • Guest
  • 5 posts
  • 0

Posted 09 August 2007 - 12:09 PM


Any thoughts about what a probiotic intake regime ought to be?
- Whether there is a distinction between loading and maintence periods.
- Daily vs occasional consumption.
- Dosage.
- With or without food.

I'm unsure of the answers. Labels on these probiotic supplements most often say they are to be consumed every day with food. That could be correct but I'll take that with a degree of skepticism for now. Here are some thoughts of mine.
- After a certain period of "loading", I'm guessing the bacteria are self sustaining. In other words, I think that there is a distinction between initial and maintenane periods in terms of dosage and frequency of use. I just don't know what the dosage and length of time ought to be in either.
- If one requires probiotic supplements such as after receiving antibiotics, I guess it should be taken daily, maybe even several times a day. But what about after the intesttinal bacteria count has reached a steady state level. Here, I'm guessing that one does not daily intake of probiotics if any at all afterwards.
- I'm guessing that probiotics should be taken alone with water so that it goes straight to the intestines. That way, they are not in the stomach acid for an hour, the usual length of time when food matter is detected. I'd imagine a lot of the probiotics would be wasted that way. And the food probably does not help bacteria in establishing along the intestines.
- As for dosage, consider there is suppose to be a 100 trillion bacteria in a healthy instestinal tract, the majority at the end. The typical bateria count of these probiotic supplements is 3 to 12 billion. If 10 billion is used, then it's 1/100%. In other words, 10 billion is 1/10K of 100 trillion.

#2 efosse

  • Guest
  • 135 posts
  • 1

Posted 09 August 2007 - 12:49 PM

There appears to be some advantage of taking probiotics regularly -- I recall seeing a study a few years back showing that people who took probiotics regularly were less likely to get the flu or common cold. It may also help with tooth decay and GI issues.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 leer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5 posts
  • 0

Posted 09 August 2007 - 01:31 PM

What is "regularly" though...every day? Will regularly every other day or once a week work? Does the dosage depend on how many days apart you use the probiotic supplement? How does the fact that bateria reproduce come into play?

#4 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 09 August 2007 - 07:47 PM

Any thoughts about what a probiotic intake regime ought to be?
- Whether there is a distinction between loading and maintence periods.
- Daily vs occasional consumption.
- Dosage.
- With or without food.

Good questions, leer. I had a heavy dose of antibiotics recently (along with tube feeding and other horribleness) and my lower GI system was pretty weirded out. Acting on a recommendation from someone at ImmInst, I took probiotics twice a day after meals for a couple weeks, and felt a lot better. I stopped taking them and I still feel good. From my small experience with them, I'd say that once you reestablish a healthy flora, you probably no longer need them. I would not rule out some benefit from taking them occasionally, though I don't know of a regimen. The low dosage, relative to total gut bacteria count seems to work. They do reproduce, at least if they are still alive. They would probably work better without food, although I took them at what might be the worst time, and they still seemed to work, so maybe it doesn't matter that much. (Or maybe I would have gotten better without them, and they didn't actually do anything.)

#5 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 09 August 2007 - 09:54 PM

- Whether there is a distinction between loading and maintence periods.


unless youre treating a disease i see no need for a loading phase

- Daily vs occasional consumption.


really depends on the delivery method.
daily pills make me constipated, but daily kefir does not.
i drink either a few glasses of kefir per week, or a few pills per week.

also take into consideration some LAB are transient and do not colonise, so they must be taked semi-regularly to have any long term benefits.


Dosage.


varies greatly between delivery methods and LAB species, and based on your health.
exeperiment... 1-5billion CFU pills, or 6oz kefir per day is a good place to start


- With or without food.


also varies greatly between delivery method and LAB species.
enteric coatied and acid stable species makes no difference... i prefer to take with food, as it helps spread the bacteria through the intestines and provides prebiotics



I'm guessing the bacteria are self sustaining. 


depends on the strain

- If one requires probiotic supplements such as after receiving antibiotics, I guess it should be taken daily, maybe even several times a day. But what about after the intesttinal bacteria count has reached a steady state level. Here, I'm guessing that one does not daily intake of probiotics if any at all afterwards.


5+B CFU twice a day while on antibiotics, once a day for two weeks after final dose

#6 leer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5 posts
  • 0

Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:36 PM

And then what about after the two weeks?

BTW, I've pretty much settled on using Udo's Choice probiotics, either his Adult or Advanced Adult formula. His Hi-Potency Bowel formula looks interesting but seems rather excessive for a healthy person.

http://www.floraheal...roducts/TG8.htm

Okay, I understand now from what many of you said that some strains are self-reproducing (as I suspected) while others are not (which I wasn't aware). Anyone know which strains listed in Udo's Choice formulas are transient and therefore have to be taken on a regular basis?

#7 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 12:29 AM

i dont consider UDO's a high quality probiotic... and his products tend to be overpriced.
there are considerably lengthy threads on this here, just search them.


food sourced probiotics:
lifeway kefir <--- my personal fav. cheap, tastey, extremely effective.
dannon activia yogurt
dannon danactive

good, moderately priced probiotics:

natures way primadophilus bifidus (blue label only)
jarrow jarro-dophilus EPS


excellent, higher priced probiotics:

natren healthy trinity
dr ohira 12plus
theralac

#8 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 11:57 AM

Is there any evidence that shows taking these supplements is actually any better than something live a bioactive live yogurts?

#9 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:17 PM

Is there any evidence that shows taking these supplements is actually any better than something live a bioactive live yogurts?



not that i know of...but im sure it exists somewhere. i know there is considerable research on the strains used in culturelle, jarrow EPS and the natren probiotics.


but in certain diseased states, its not possible to consume as many bacteria as are necessary to produce desired results through simply drinking kefir & eating yogurt.
also the obvious issues of allergy/intolerance, veganism, and avoiding casein protein as some on this forum do.


*edit*
i forgot to mention lactobacillus GG... another good, moderately priced probiotic that is probably the most extensively researched in humans.

pills:
http://www.culturelle.com/
http://www.lactobacillusgg.com/

yogurt:
http://www.danimals.com/

Edited by ajnast4r, 10 August 2007 - 01:29 PM.


#10 Brainbox

  • Member
  • 2,860 posts
  • 743
  • Location:Netherlands
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 02:26 PM

I take a supplement that also contains FOS regularly.
Maybe FOS alone could be beneficial as well (and cheaper), as a maintenance, in case you have confidence in the quality of your lower GI system already?

#11 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 02:33 PM

I take a supplement that also contains FOS regularly.
Maybe FOS alone could be beneficial as well (and cheaper), as a maintenance, in case you have confidence in the quality of your lower GI system already?


i dont believe so... while pre-biotics are beneficial, semi-regular ingestion of actual bacteria is necessary to maintain balance

#12 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 03:05 PM

Well it seems probiotics from a drink or yogurts can have a beneficial effect... There was a story about it helping with antibiotic treatment in preventing side effects and C. Difficile.

http://www.guardian....6744487,00.html

"they were split into two groups, with one given Actimel and the other a longlife milkshake. The labels were removed from the bottles so none of the patients knew what they were drinking."

"The results showed that, of 113 patients followed up, those given the probiotic drink had suffered far less diarrhoea. Only 12% developed antibiotic-associated diarrhoea, compared with 34% of the group given the longlife milkshake. No-one in the probiotic group had diarrhoea linked to C diff, compared with 17% in the longlife milkshake group.

C diff is responsible for around 15 to 25% of all cases of diarrhoea associated with antibiotic use, mostly occurring in older people after they have stopped taking their antibiotic course, the researchers noted."

#13 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 10 August 2007 - 04:46 PM

Well it seems probiotics from a drink or yogurts can have a beneficial effect... There was a story about it helping with antibiotic treatment in preventing side effects and C. Difficile.


theres plenty of research showing different species of LAB can enhance immune function, prevent illness, ease digestive upset from different medications etc etc

#14 edward

  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 11 August 2007 - 07:43 PM

I just finished taking Microbiology (along with 5 other classes). Our professor works at the CDC (centers for disease control) and is very well respected. He is a big believer in regular consumption of probiotics to prevent disease, enhance the immune system and out-compete opportunistic pathogens. This guy is very skeptical in general about natural treatments but on this subject he is very much an advocate. By regular consumption he means 3 times a week at least unless you are taking antibiotics, in which case you should consume probiotics and prebiotics daily and as much as possible.


PS. Haven't been on here for a while due to an extreme work and school schedule, haven't disappeared as some do, just extremely busy, you know its bad when you are having to schedule in sleep days in advance. :p

#15 ageless

  • Guest
  • 219 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 August 2007 - 08:24 PM

Any Thoughts on this probiotic formula from AOR?

http://www.aor.ca/in...ced_biotics.php

#16 edward

  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 12 August 2007 - 06:19 AM

Seems pretty good. I like the fact that it has double the amount of Bifidobacterium as compared to the other strains as I have read the many positive things about this bacteria and the fact that it tends to get out competed by some aggressive Lactobacillus strains. Inulin is good to as a prebiotic

I personally like and am taking New Chapter All Flora, which seems to be pretty complete as far as the different strains of beneficial flora and 6 billion cells per 2 caps is very good. It doesn't have inulin which I think is a negative but honestly if you take your probiotics with food I think the bacteria will find enough to "feed on".

In addition I drink Lifeway Kefir a couple times a week. I really love that stuff, especially the Pomegrante flavor.

#17 mike250

  • Guest
  • 981 posts
  • 9

Posted 12 August 2007 - 06:25 AM

I was thinking of getting GOL probiotic below:
http://www.iherb.com...1&pid=3159&at=0

any thoughts on this one?

#18 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 12 August 2007 - 03:11 PM

basically everything AOR makes is pretty solid, im sure their probiotic is good..

i would stay away from primal defence, there is has been some question as to the saftey of HSO's.


also be very mindful of shipping probiotics during the hot summer months.

#19 edward

  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 12 August 2007 - 06:51 PM

I was thinking of getting GOL probiotic below:
http://www.iherb.com...1&pid=3159&at=0

any thoughts on this one?


Seems pretty good. They are a little vague though on how many live cells are used at the time of manufacture. I personally would like the companies to list their content as millions or billions of live active cells (at the time of manufacture) rather than milligrams as that makes more sense when dealing with bacteria. The best possible way of listing things (and the standard for microbiology labs) is CFUs (colony forming units) which amounts to the average number of live active and viable cells that have been tested to be able to divide and form colonies (with every batch there will be a percentage of dead bacteria that will not reanimate). I mean who wants 100s of milligrams or billions of cells of dead bacteria. But alas supplement manufacturers rarely list things the exact way we like.

#20 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 13 August 2007 - 12:00 PM

Seems pretty good. They are a little vague though on how many live cells are used at the time of manufacture. I personally would like the companies to list their content as millions or billions of live active cells (at the time of manufacture) rather than milligrams as that makes more sense when dealing with bacteria.  The best possible way of listing things (and the standard for microbiology labs) is CFUs (colony forming units) which amounts to the average number of live active and viable cells that have been tested to be able to divide and form colonies (with every batch there will be a percentage of dead bacteria that will not reanimate). I mean who wants 100s of milligrams or billions of cells of dead bacteria. But alas supplement manufacturers rarely list things the exact way we like.


you want a company to guarantee the amount of viable cell through the expiration date, not just at the time of manufacture

and again primal defense contains homeostatic soil organisms as well as lactic acid bacteria, and should be avoided until they are proven safe

#21 FunkOdyssey

  • Guest
  • 3,443 posts
  • 166
  • Location:Manchester, CT USA

Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:22 PM

you want a company to guarantee the amount of viable cell through the expiration date, not just at the time of manufacture

How is this possible considering all the possible environments and conditions the consumer might expose the product to? You can't guarantee probiotics will last any length of time if, for example, they are left in direct sunlight or baking in your car @ 140 degrees on a summer day.

#22 krillin

  • Guest
  • 1,516 posts
  • 60
  • Location:USA

Posted 13 August 2007 - 04:30 PM

How is this possible considering all the possible environments and conditions the consumer might expose the product to?  You can't guarantee probiotics will last any length of time if, for example, they are left in direct sunlight or baking in your car @ 140 degrees on a summer day.


I guess that's why bottles say "Store in a cool, dry place."

#23 neogenic

  • Guest
  • 481 posts
  • 6
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:50 PM

Theralac says that much of its benefit is from generating more lactic acid in the GI tract, which is potently antibiotic. My question is as an athlete of a life-extensionist how do we generating greater amounts of lactic acid...wholly beneficial? Is there any systemic impact? I'd love to hear some incite on this. Is AOR's product as good as Theralac or Healthy Trinity, etc....the so-called "high-end" ones?

#24 ajnast4r

  • Guest, F@H
  • 3,925 posts
  • 147
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 19 August 2007 - 11:41 PM

How is this possible considering all the possible environments and conditions the consumer might expose the product to?  You can't guarantee probiotics will last any length of time if, for example, they are left in direct sunlight or baking in your car @ 140 degrees on a summer day.


well that guarantee requires that you adhere to the other advice on the label... ie: not leaving them in your car on a hot summer day.

all the good brands guarantee through expiration

#25 durandal

  • Guest
  • 39 posts
  • 0

Posted 23 August 2007 - 01:17 AM

lifeway kefir<--- my personal fav. cheap, tastey, extremely effective.

Make real kefir yourself, with the "grains." Much cheaper and better.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#26 neogenic

  • Guest
  • 481 posts
  • 6
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 26 August 2007 - 09:15 PM

What do you think about this formulation:
http://www.nowfoods....l&item_id=81883
Paying 25% of some of the others mentioned would be nice and I truly trust the quality control of NOW over nearly any other brand.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users