To buy from Smi2le.biz/product purity

Just a quick bump. Bulk Nutrition.com is carrying Alpha-GPC now, 50 grams for $15 and 150 grams for $42.

Working on Idebenone and Sulbutiamine, as well as some of the other racetams.

How unoriginal, yet characteristic of bulk nutrition dot com. It seems bulk nutrition is not capable of "original thinking." They always have to do whatever smi2le does. Great, another copycat. I bet you anything bulk nutrition dot com will soon carry every item that smi2le does; then watch some time pass, and Rizzer brings something else new to the nootropic market, popularizes it, and, hey! Let me guess, bulk nutrition will come over here and announce that, "hey! We are selling it now too!" "But it from us!"

There are two sides to the coin:

1. Good: this could potentially bring us better prices on the products we buy. Reason: Competition.

2. Bad: the quality will degrade. For those of you unaware of the mechanics of the supplement market, let me inform you that bulk powders from China may have contaminants. Also the Chinese powder dealers often present the prospective buyer with several multi kilogram bins: some with 97% purity, 98% purity, some with 99% purity; etc. When there is a lot of market competition the seller, in order to achieve a price edge, will select the cheapest, rather than the purest product. Clearly bulk nutrition is financially motivated; we see over and over again that they only see potential profits rather than customers in this market.

Smi2le has been bringing new products to this market and droppping the prices on them to never before seen levels, and bulk nutrition sits on the sidelines, watches smi2le's moves, and copies them. I am not impressed with their business practices at all.

Also bulk nutrition does not allow any customer to send in a sample of their product to an independent labratory to have it assayed. When I asked them if I could send in a sample of a product that I found to be questionable, they told me that they were "too big" of a company and that could present them with a risk. To me, that is just a big excuse. And considering that the powder I purcased from bulk nutrition dot com was of Chinese origin and had never been subjected to an HPLC assay, there could be contaminants and purity concerns.

Read this (click here) to read more about my view of importance of purity in the supplement market

I am not going to keep ingesting this product, and am not about to throw away $165 (the cost of an HPLC assay) to find out its contaminated and lose both $165 plus the cost of the powder I purchased from them. So I just decided not to ever purchase powders from them ever again. Why? I have mentioned this before, but will say it again for emphasis. Smi2le.biz allows ANY customer to subject his powders to an HPLC assay for store credit. I have taken advantage of this offer twice already, and plan to do so again. Clearly there is an advantage buying powders from smi2le.biz: he allows us customers to test the quality of his product in exchange for credit at his store. He trusts us and knows what it is like getting some strange powder in the mail and wondering if it is safe to ingest. Also, smi2le is not a copycat business, he is a supplement innovator who works to bring us the rarest, most difficult to find powders at never before seen prices. I suggest those of you interested in the long term status of this business to first compare prices at both bulk nutrition dot com and smi2e.biz; then consider the history of this business; and know that, if history is to repeat itself (as it often does), we will see bulk nutriton continually adding items that Rizzer does, people will ingest powders and some will be contaminated, as we have seen from the HPLC assays that AOR recieved on pyrodoxamine:


So: it is your call. All I wanted to do is make sure everybody is aware of these facts.

Take care,

Nootropi

Edited by nootropi, 21 September 2004 - 10:48 PM.

I don't understand, what problem do you have with companies exanding there business?

Also bulnutrition.com/1fast400.com were one of the first compines to sell piracetam in bulk so by using your logic everyone else who sells bulk piracetam is just an unoriginal copycat.

On bulknutritions forum they have had a poll up since March asking what nootropics there customers would like to see them carry the most, they are simply giving their customers what they want.

http://forums.bulknu.../?showtopic=855




Mike posted this on avant.

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1fast400:

QUOTE
Simply having a procedure such as this will greatly reduce any legal liability.


I know more about the legal issues involving testing of powders than anyone on this board. You have no idea what you are talking about.

That said if you want to test ANY of my powders, provide me an address and I'll shoot it there. You can have the lab order as well from my site if you wish.
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http://forum.avantla...1&t=12529&st=60
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He's simply trying to preserve the chain of custody, by having the lab order it directly, so nobody can accuse anyone of tampering with the sample.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

Nootropic:

Maybe you could talk Rizzer into getting consumer/food-grade EUK-189, NtBHA, and STAZN from a Chinese manufacturer (possibly THE top 3 life extension drugs). I'm guessing they'd be enormously expensive from an American chemical supply company. But those Chinese manufacturers can whip out anything at low prices... :-)

I don't understand, what problem do you have with companies exanding there business?

Also bulnutrition.com/1fast400.com were one of the first compines to sell piracetam in bulk so by using your logic everyone else who sells bulk piracetam is just an unoriginal copycat.

On bulknutritions forum they have had a poll up since March asking what nootropics there customers would like to see them carry the most, they are simply giving their customers what they want.

http://forums.bulknu.../?showtopic=855




Mike posted this on avant.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1fast400:

QUOTE
Simply having a procedure such as this will greatly reduce any legal liability.


I know more about the legal issues involving testing of powders than anyone on this board. You have no idea what you are talking about.

That said if you want to test ANY of my powders, provide me an address and I'll shoot it there. You can have the lab order as well from my site if you wish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://forum.avantla...1&t=12529&st=60
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He's simply trying to preserve the chain of custody, by having the lab order it directly, so nobody can accuse anyone of tampering with the sample.

Apparently, there is a lot that you are not taking into consideration. Granted, I am only a nootropic ingester; if you will; I personally am not financially attached whatsoever to any nootropic provider.

Of course I see the value in competition, but this is pure copycat AND I see a pattern; this copycat activity is deja vu (remember the days before bulk nutrition sold aniracetam, l-theanine, etc?)

Bulk piracetam? Firstly, in my humble opinion, piracetam is a nootropic of little efficacy; its newer derivatives have a lot more to offer, to say the least.

What concerns me primarily is supplement purity. I only want to ingest the best, naturally.

As I have mentioned before, I find incredible value in submitting random samples of powders I purchase over the Internet to IBC for HPLC assays. Why do I find value in this activity? Because I know that profits interfere with businesses' actions. If they have to spend $165 to have a powder assayed, or not, they won't and will sell YOU a powder that has not been assayed because you will buy it, as we see clearly in your enthusiasm towards bulk nutrition.

However, I will not buy it from them. Why? Because, once again, I like to submit random samples of my powders to Intergrated Biomolecule for a good old HPLC assay at any time I please, for store credit. Smi2le employs an entirely innovative customer service stance: one which values my paranoia. Maybe you are not paranoid as I am. I just feel uncomfortable blindly trusting bulk nutrition (or any bulk supplier for that matter) with my body, one which I find indispensable (maybe that is because I only have ONE!).

Judging from the copycat business model bulk nutrition employs, they would do anything to make a buck, anything unoriginal; that is, anything besides something original. I would not be at all suprised if bulk nutrition purchases powders of lower purity to earn higher profits; they are seething with profit desire -- so much that they have to look at smi2le's successes and mimic them. Not impressive. Why doesn't bulk nutrition go out and get something and bring it to this market that IS NOT ALREADY HERE? Take note: this is EXACTLY what smi2le does today.

Chain of custody? What are you taking about? I am buying these products from a seller who, are you telling me does not trust me to submit what I purchased from them? And you think I would even consider buying anything from them if they don't trust me, but feel just fine taking my money to the bank?! [sfty] No thanks,! I don't want anything from that store if they don't trust me, I don't trust them. I will stick with the vendor who trusts me and who is constantly bringing new products to market, rather than his copycat.

I have to go now, take care everybody.

I will admit that it does disturb me how much you defend smi2le. You do a tremendous amount of advertising for them on here. I'm not saying you have an agenda at all. But it can often appear as though you do.

I'm not saying they aren't a great company. But there are lots of great companies. If they went out of business there would be plenty of other places to turn. And if there weren't, I would open up such a company myself. These problems correct themselves.

On the matter of contamination:

Listen. It doesn't matter a hell of a lot if a supplement is not "pure". What matters is what the impurities are. If the impurity is NaCl, I'm not going to be too concerned about it. Admitedly, as a biochemist, I have some ideas what potential impurities could be for some given substances. I would like to see more detained assays rather than simply "95.2%". I care far more about the 4.8%. Hell, something could be 99.9% pure and still have deadly impurities.

Nootropi,

I may have missed this but if AOR cannot find a reliable source for Pyridoxamine , then what is smi2le selling??

Nootropi,

I may have missed this but if AOR cannot find a reliable source for Pyridoxamine , then what is smi2le selling??

Scottl, I have actually already answered this question for you at avant.

Smi2le gets his pyrodoxamine from Geronova. Do you know who they are?

click here scott

I will admit that it does disturb me how much you defend smi2le.  You do a tremendous amount of advertising for them on here.  I'm not saying you have an agenda at all.  But it can often appear as though you do.

I'm not saying they aren't a great company.  But there are lots of great companies.  If they went out of business there would be plenty of other places to turn.  And if there weren't, I would open up such a company myself.  These problems correct themselves.

On the matter of contamination:

Listen.  It doesn't matter a hell of a lot if a supplement is not "pure".  What matters is what the impurities are.  If the impurity is NaCl, I'm not going to be too concerned about it.  Admitedly, as a biochemist, I have some ideas what potential impurities could be for some given substances.  I would like to see more detained assays rather than simply "95.2%".  I care far more about the 4.8%.  Hell, something could be 99.9% pure and still have deadly impurities.

Good: you should be concerned about purity of substances you ingest. Ideally, in a perfect world, the worst contaminant would be something as non toxic as salt; unfortunately, this is not the case. Now, if you were to ingest as many supplements as I do, surely you would like the vendor selling them to you to have some kind of quality control measure to protect the general public from disease and death, correct? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but most vendors employ no such measure; so it is indeed possible that your life could be at stake. What is entirely ironic is that here we are, ingesting supplements from which we expect enhancements or extensions to the quality and length of our lives, respectively, but at the same time we could be obliterating all of these benefits due to contaminants in the very same supplements.

I would not even consider smi2le to be a company at all. He is a one man show. And for a one man show to create such turbulence throughout the world of anti aging supplements and nootropics is commendable considering the history of this market; if you a bit of research on this market, you will see that before smi2le came around, the most effective nootropics and life extension supplements were far more expensive. That means a lot to me -- the difference between spending over $1,500 per month on my 40-50 supps to a more reasonable figure more like $150. And what is most important, in my opinion, to the growth of this particular market is then vendor integrity/supplement quality (purity), and, of course, price.

Given that I spend $150 or more per month on supplements, I could probably assay one of the powders I buy per month at IBC labs in direct exchange for store credit at smi2le. As I have mentioned before, the price of an HPLC assay at Integrated Biomolecule Corp. is $165. So, my relationship with smi2le is not necessarily unique -- you could engage in the exact same relationship -- that is, exchanging the costs of HPLC assays for value in product at his store. Of course it will appear that I am, in some manner, affiliated with smi2le.biz; and I may be; however, by no means am I financially invested in his business whatsoever. I am only affiliated as a customer of his who trades value for value -- in other words, I send in random samples of his product to subject them to HPLC in exchange for store credit.

The real reason for my huffing and puffing at bulk nutrition dot com is the fact that their parasitic business model does not CONTRIBUTE anything to the nootropic market; all it appears that they do is monitor it for potentially profitable products that other vendors are selling; then add it to their catalog, at a lower price (at least temporarily).

Smi2le has taken the inititative with several new nootropics, bringing products to market in bulk quantities that were otherwise unavailable (and unknown in some cases), and selling them for so cheap that one could purchase a years supply of nootropics for a fraction of the cost (>1/10) from the online pharmacies.

My argument is simple and clear: smi2le brings more NEW nootropics to market than 1fast400/bulk nutrition dot com (they are the same site), therefore I would rather support his business simply based on the premise that I see more value FOR MYSELF in supporting his "mission," than a company whose mission is solely to profit, and do at the expense of other's efforts.

I have nothing against smi2le.biz but you make sound as though he was the first one to even think of selling bulk nootropics online when he wasn't, that poll on bulknutrition was started a month before smi2le.biz even started selling anything online. I'm positive BAC has been selling several of the nootropics sim2le.biz sells before he added them to his inventory.

On the testing issue, do you honestly think bulknutrition would be that stupid as to not have there powders tested properly by a 3rd party considering there history of running a label claims testing site, and the fact that several companies would love to get some revenge?

The way you go on and on about how bulknutrition.com is so unoriginal and inferior to smi2le.biz, really doesn't give me very good motivation to place an order with smi2le.biz. If you’re so positive about the inferiority of bulknutritions products just have them tested already.

I don't understand how you think that just because they don't trust you to get there products tested, you think that’s unreasonable, it seems pretty reasonable to me not everyone is an honest person, I know if I was running a company and having my products tested I'd want the chain of custody preserved. I personally trust an assay more if it was done with a proper chain of custody than without one.

And since I seriously doubt either one of us is going to change our thoughts on the issue, let’s just agree to disagree.

You got to love delusional schizophrenics..

Nootropi,

Sorry--I'd forgotten. I guess I just don't understand why AOR doesn't source pyrodoxamine from Geronova as well.

I have nothing against smi2le.biz but you make sound as though he was the first one to even think of selling bulk nootropics online when he wasn't, that poll on bulknutrition was started a month before smi2le.biz even started selling anything online.  I'm positive BAC has been selling several of the nootropics sim2le.biz sells before he added them to his inventory.

On the testing issue, do you honestly think bulknutrition would be that stupid as to not have there powders tested properly by a 3rd party considering there history of running a label claims testing site, and the fact that several companies would love to get some revenge?

The way you go on and on about how bulknutrition.com is so unoriginal and inferior to smi2le.biz, really doesn't give me very good motivation to place an order with smi2le.biz.  If you’re so positive about the inferiority of bulknutritions products just have them tested already.

I don't understand how you think that just because they don't trust you to get there products tested, you think that’s unreasonable, it  seems pretty reasonable to me not everyone is an honest person, I know if I was running a company and having my products tested I'd want the chain of custody preserved.  I personally trust an assay more if it was done with a proper chain of custody than without one.

And since I seriously doubt either one of us is going to change our thoughts on the issue, let’s just agree to disagree.

I don't understand what your point is. I am not selling anything, okay? And case in point I can PROVE that YOU do NOT know at all what you are talking about. I hate to break it to you, but you have a lapse in your understanding this market, and I can easily prove it.

You said above that:

On the testing issue, do you honestly think bulknutrition would be that stupid as to not have there powders tested properly by a 3rd party considering there history of running a label claims testing site, and the fact that several companies would love to get some revenge?

YES! I do, and I will prove it. Oh boy, were you taken for a fool? Thank you for the lead in. You will see that if I was to initially say what I am about to it would be construed as calculated; but it truly was not. But here I am going to use your lack of knowledge on this topic to emphasize my point even further.

But first let me bring to the reader's attention the attempts here to discredit me. I find that particularly interesting. Why would anybody seek to discredit me? I am a consumer in this market, that is it. A contributor to this discussion is implying that I am a schizophrenic. Trust me: I would love to say that the comments that follow these are delusions; howevem, the sad truth is that they are not.

To save time (I am particularly busy right now), I am going to refer to another post I wrote (that apparently you did NOT read; if you did you wouldn't have said what you did, just did clearly [and please don't go back to edit your post now]):

I have noticed that quite a debate has been sparked recently regarding supplement quality, and I really am not pleased to have so much anger involved in the conversation, so I am going to try my best to clarify my view on this topic to forgo any further misunderstandings.

I take about 40-50 supplements on a daily basis. I buy 75% of these supplements in bulk. There is simply no way I could take such a vast array of supplements if I did not buy in bulk. When I purchase a bulk powder, I am trusting a lot of people:

1. The laboratory that synthesized the chemical. One thing that most bulk powder buyers do not know is that some of these chemicals are purchased from China; and while they may provide a "COA," that really 90% of the time does not include an HPLC (High-performance liquid chromatography) assay. Without an HPLC assay from an independent lab, we don’t know about possible contaminants that have been identified that could be harmful to our health.

*If you look closely at the tests performed by bulknutrition.com reported at the site owned by bulknutrition.com, labelclaimstesting.com, you will see that VERY few (1 by my count, I may be wrong) of the tests are actually HPLC assays (and most are VERY outdated). Of particular interest to the members of this forum is the fact that there are NO results from piracetam, aniracetam, or any other nootropics that some of you may have purchased presuming that they had been subjected to an HPLC assay. All (AFAIK, correct me if I am wrong) bulknutrition.com has for these are COAs, which are merely claims from the laboratory who synthesized the chemical (as is selling it, of course). However, it is notable that 1fast400 even has such a site; however its standard could be better.

*Both of the assays I have performed by integratedbiomolecule were HPLC assays, and although they may be more expensive, they eliminate my contamination concern. Many supplement providers do not HPLC assays because they cost much more; but to really ensure your safety, you should demand that the supplements you ingest are subjected to an HPLC assay.

Definition of HPLC: High-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) is a key instrumental technique in bioanalysis, since analysis of biological samples requires the separation of an analyte, often at trace levels, from a complex matrix containing countless interfering components. The current research thrust of leading investigators in HPLC is in developing design innovations for improved chromatography of biomacromolecules (such as proteins and DNA).

2. The seller of the supplement. Is he or she packaging the supplements in a clean room, or on his living room table? If s/he does neither, then what sanitation standards does he or she have? Are there even clearly defined standards at all? If so, where can we find out about them? There are many ways supplements can become contaminated at this stage.

For these and other reasons (I am not about to sit here and write my dissertation today on the topic), I prefer to purchase my supplements from smi2le, because he REIMBURSES me with product at his store for HPLC tests that I have performed an an independent lab of my choice. While I recognize that 1fast400 may have taken some steps to ensure product quality, in my view, their steps are insufficient. Label claims testing dot com indeed has analyses; however, they are “quite” out dated, most are not HPLC and include NO nootropics. In fact, the most recent test account at labelclaimstesting.com is from November 25, 2003. WHICH IS OVER A YEAR AGO.[/SIZE]

EVIDENCE:
Sorry to prove you wrong and humiliate you and bulk nutrition dot com but THEY HAVE NOT ASSAYED A SINGLE PRODUCT FOR ALMOST A YEAR AND YOU WERE DECIEVED THINKING THEY DID!

And NO HPLC ASSAYS nor ANY assays on a single nootropic AT ALL! I sincerly hope the rest of you do your own investigating on these matters; and you really should not trust people without doing your own research, as we see how easily you were tricked into believing that bulk nutrition acually tested their products before selling them. Are you STILL going to cheer for them? Isn't being fooled once bad enough?

Go ahead and see for yourself: Type in www.labelclaimstesting.com

Edited by nootropi, 17 September 2004 - 09:48 PM.

Here is a screenshot I just took (note the time and date): just in case LABEL CLAIMS TESTING decides to alter the evidence of their non testing of their products since November 2003!

see post below

Edited by nootropi, 17 September 2004 - 10:17 PM.

He stopped lableclaimstesting a year ago because he got sued several times by the companies products he tested (court costs were costing too much to justify keep testing products), they claimed his testing methods were faulty, he subsequently won those lawsuits, to the best of my knowledge.

Here's an article on one of them

http://www.avantlabs...=138&issueID=13

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And that attachment you posted isn't coming up for me.

here is the pic

Edited by nootropi, 18 December 2004 - 05:02 PM.

What? Are you still standing behind this guy?

You were just telling me how this guy runs a website, bla bla bla, labelclaimstesting.com. The owner brags about it like it is some kind of prize. But as we now know it is just plain old tests on cereal bars, okay?

Don't you get it? The reason why I like smi2le is because I can test his products at any time to ensure their quality. With bulk nutrition, I have to "hope" that it is safe for human consumption. Clearly the latter is the wiser choice. Buy your Chinese powders from whereever you want. I won't try to stop you anymore. I am sticking with smi2le because he has more to offer me than bulk nutrition.

Look, I really have to finish these two tables that I am building, they are both 80% done. Take care and have a good day.

this discussion has degenerated. For some reason it has become an emotional issue. It is fruitless to continue it.

this discussion has degenerated.  For some reason it has become an emotional issue.  It is fruitless to continue it.

An emotional issue? I am sticking to the facts, if that involves your feelings, I really don't know what to say.

The real issue in my opinion, is value. To tell you the truth, I was suprised that ALL bulk resellers in the US do not routeinely HPLC assay ALL their powders before reselling them.

When I first ordered a bulk powder from smi2le, my mother asked me if I KNEW that there was no mercury in it (this was idebenone). I did not know what to tell her; but I wondered to myself, "what if there is something in minute quantities that is hazardous to my health in this odd colored powder?" So I called Rizzer (on the phone) and asked him if he knew the powder was free of contaminants. I am sure that I sounded threatening. He told me he had settled on his sources after a lot of interaction and expressed that his source was "trusted."

Call me paranoid if you want, but I don't "trust" anybody with my life THAT much (ie blindly). So when Rizzer told me he would grant me store credit for the costs of HPLC assays, I jumped on it. Why don't you see the value in that? If you are like me and spend thousands of dollars a year on your supplements, surely you would understand the value in a vendor who stands behind his products in such a manner; why would I want to buy supplements from anywhere else if I cannot VERIFY their purity in exchange for their product?

In case other had not already seen these results: here they are:

Edited by nootropi, 18 December 2004 - 05:44 PM.

As a lurker I should just stay out.....but

Anyone who gains a great deal of peace of mind from a HPLC assay on a xenobiotic they intend to consume is grossly misinformed. HPLC is very useful for quickly determining a product probably contains what is claims. It will show levels of impurities. It will not identify impurities. For that you need other tests - notably NMR spec. (expensive).

The identity of impurities is everything. I suspect many enthusiasts here are too young to have been buying/using supplements when the tryptophan peak-x debacle took place. Peak-x is the name for an impurity detected by chromotography in very small quantities in tryptophan made by Showa Denko of Japan - a very respected internation pharm outfit. Peak-X is just one of many peaks observable in just about any product you could send in for a test. Most peaks are harmless impurities = adulterants. Peak X killed people and made many others gravely ill . The FDA used the debacle as reason for banning tryptophan from all sources and generally running roughshod over the entire supplement industry.

For myself, I consider "free" HPLC testing on products to be a gimic that does little to assure safety. IMO It only proves that you haven't bought placebo - not that it is any way safe. This wouldn't be important except for the continuing assertions that free HLPC is the litmus test of something. If you choose to be an early adopter of unapproved products - caveat emptor .

I personally have bought products from smi2le and have been satisfied. I am willing to assume some risk for being an "early adopter" but I recognize that doing such definately entails some additional risk. I appreciate having sources like smi2le available, but realize what a precarious niche in the market such start-ups occupy. I also appreciate the free speech and free flow of ideas on forums like this, but feel like it is important to point out potentially hazardous misinformation. Free HPLC tests are great if you like them, but understand what it is that they actually show.

On a different topic:
Bulk piracetam? Firstly, in my humble opinion, piracetam is a nootropic of little efficacy; its newer derivatives have a lot more to offer, to say the least.

My humble opinion:
Piracetam was the first of the 'racetams, is by far the most tested, and is also the least altered chemically (least xenobiotic if you will) from the PCA base that is the active site of all the 'racetams. The other, later 'racetams were created to get around patents on piracetam. They may be more potent on per weight basis and have different onset times and persistence, but there is very little compelling evidence that the gross effects are significantly different, if at all.

OBW

Precisely.

This discussion appears to have brought out more than one lurker.

OBW, thank you for your interest in this topic. I feel honored that my topic was compelling enough to motivate you to step forward out of the shadows of the forum.

Your argument is built on my premises. Of course an HPLC assay will not identify impurities; however, it will tell us (within a margin of error) what percentage of a substance is present and what percentage is impure. Now let us compare an HPLC assay to no assay at all. Which is clearly better I ask; please tell me?

The identity of impurities IS everything, as is my point of emphasis; however, if we do HPLC assay a powder to 90%, why would be even bother buying it/ingesting it? However, randomly testing powders by the HPLC method surely is a better method than trusting the Chinese powder pusher's claims, wouldn't you agree?

A gimmik? Why don't you take a few more steps forward out of the shadows of this forum and go assay a powder yourself? Your words are incriminatory; so where exactly are (or upon whom) you placing the blame here? I place the blame upon you for not acting upon your own inferred values here today.

Finally, your view of piracetam is understandable; however, if you do some research on the topic, you will see that piracetam's effaciousness when compared to its derivatives on a milligram per kilogram basis is rather weak. Considerable evidence of weakness of piracetam when compared to its derivatives (namely, oxiracatam, aniracetam, and pramiracetam) is available for your reading pleasure at http://www.pubmed.org.

Take care.

Edited by nootropi, 19 September 2004 - 02:50 AM.

Nootropi - The OBW fellow made some good points and in a respectfull way - um, don't take me asking you this the wrong way, but, why do you have such a bitch-y attitude? I mean goddamn...

Per the Piracetam - mg/kg efficacy is relevent only in that you need to take more of the Piracetam than it's relatives - so what?

The fact that it's the least "xenobiotic" and is as qualitatively desirable as the other racetams is what matters most...

Hello Sparticle,

Regarding your feelings about my comments to OBW.

...while I appreciate his or her input, I would much rather hear what OBW is going to do about the issue at hand rather than just complain about it. That is why he or she evoked my particular reply. From an intellectual standpoint, it is much easier to identify a problem than find its solution.

Wouldn't you agree?

Regarding piracetam: I do not think it is important how xenobiotic a substance is. What matters is how effective and safe it is.

Thats a good question - how much does it matter how "natural" a substance is?

In my experience with various chemicals the ones directly derived from plant sources or those endogenous to my own body have a much more familiar and at home feel to me when I take them.

However when it comes to "synthetic" chemicals many of them, while not feeling "natural" also don't feel like they're innapropriate in my body...

Were our brains designed for and intended to process xenobiotic chemicals? Is that desirable in general? I guess maybe these are philosophical questions in some ways...

Hello Sparticle,

Regarding your feelings about my comments to OBW.

...while I appreciate his or her input, I would much rather hear what OBW is going to do about the issue at hand rather than just complain about it.  That is why he or she evoked my particular reply.  From an intellectual standpoint, it is much easier to identify a problem than find its solution.  

Wouldn't you agree?

Regarding piracetam: I do not think it is important how xenobiotic a substance is.  What matters is how effective and safe it is.

OBW isn't complaining, and he gave you a solution.
Your argument against 1fast400 and your lab assays are a waste of time.

You can't tell whether impurities are in the products that you test unless you run an expensive test, which most will not do.
You take the inherent risk by consuming unapproved products.

OBW isn't complaining, and he gave you a solution.
Your argument against 1fast400 and your lab assays are a waste of time.

You can't tell whether impurities are in the products that you test unless you run an expensive test, which most will not do.
You take the inherent risk by consuming unapproved products.

Hello Gokugreen,

Thank you for your continued interest in my topic. [glasses]

What is OBW's solution?

What is my argument "against" 1fast400?

I can't tell whether (there are) impurities in the products that I test unless I run an expensive test, which most WHAT will not do?

I take the inherent risk by consuming unapproved AND/OR approved products.

What is OBW's solution?

I didn't think OBW's solution needed to be pointed out seeing as how obvious it is.

Basically, you take the risk or you can run a nmr spectroscopy test on the products you have
purchased.

What is my argument "against" 1fast400?

Your argument on whether to buy from smi2le or 1fast400.

I didn't think OBW's solution needed to be pointed out seeing as how obvious it is.
Basically, you take the risk or you can run a nmr spectroscopy test on the products you have
purchased.

If a product comes out of an HPLC assay with a 99.954% grade (including moisture), as did smi2le's aniracetam, I do not think it is at all rational to start complaining about purity, so that there is my answer to that part...now, in the case of idebenone; given the results came out to less than perfect 97.249% (including moisture); maybe you could start requesting higher spec assays; or just reject the product altogether and demand higher purity. The point is: you don't need a higher than HPLC assay to determine whether to reject or accept a product.

Your argument on whether to buy from smi2le or 1fast400.

My argument was fairly simple and based on a well documented history. I am not going to repeat myself here tonight; however, I will elaborate a bit, to help disabuse you of your false perception of my argument.

I want supplement providers to be accountable to their customers. I want supplement providers to subject their products to HPLC assays before selling them to the general public, and to provide the results of assays to any customer upon request. I do not respect 1fast400 for attempting to convey that they routeinely assay their Chinese powders before selling them when they do not (as I have demonstrated earlier in this thread). I do not like seeing the work of others, namely smi2le's being copycatted when 1fast400 could, with a little more creative effort, bring something new to this market rather than bring the item smi2le (or someone else for that matter) just did.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

This guy has attacked me all over the place. At this point, it is fruitless to respond to him. When presented with logical explanations, he just runs off on another tangent. He uses misinformation to base his thoughts. He doesn't realize that if his information is wrong, than any conclusions drawn from that, is wrong as well.

If any of you have personal concerns, email me directly at My65cuda@aol.com. We were the first site on the internet to sell any material by the gram. We've constantly expanded into other ventures as well. With a new sourcing guy on board (his only job), we will be expanding a lot over the next few weeks.


Mike McCandless
Owner 1Fast400/BulkNutrition.com