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High dose vitamin E death warning
Started by
nootropi
, Nov 11 2004 02:03 AM
24 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 11 November 2004 - 02:45 AM
Ya I saw it.
1. A mixed vitamin E preperation is preferable (alpha + beta + gamma tocopherol) just as is it preferable to take all the B vitamins and not just beta carotene, but a broad spectrum of carotenoids.
2. There are people who are biased against vitamins and love to put out how vitamins are bad for you (be thankful they don't know about nootrops to put out negative articles about them). Vitamin C thickens the carotid artery (not) and you know what makes you go blind too.
3. There are enough previous postive data on vitamin E I'm going to ignore this. I also take a broad spectrum of antioxidants (as I believe you do too).
See postive date of vit e here:
http://www.pdrhealth.../vit_0266.shtml
1. A mixed vitamin E preperation is preferable (alpha + beta + gamma tocopherol) just as is it preferable to take all the B vitamins and not just beta carotene, but a broad spectrum of carotenoids.
2. There are people who are biased against vitamins and love to put out how vitamins are bad for you (be thankful they don't know about nootrops to put out negative articles about them). Vitamin C thickens the carotid artery (not) and you know what makes you go blind too.
3. There are enough previous postive data on vitamin E I'm going to ignore this. I also take a broad spectrum of antioxidants (as I believe you do too).
See postive date of vit e here:
http://www.pdrhealth.../vit_0266.shtml
#7
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Posted 11 November 2004 - 06:40 PM
I'm on the email list for http://www.askbillsardi.com and he sent this analysis of the study.
Are Americans Really At Increased Risk of Dying From High-Dose Vitamin E Pills?
Examine The Data For Yourself
Now that Americans have been besieged with the report that high-dose vitamin E supplements may increase the risk of death, one wonders how millions of people were misled into taking vitamin E pills. Are you really at an increased risk of dying if you take 400 international units or more of vitamin E? Examine the evidence for yourself.
Here are the analytical charts, along with direct wording from the vitamin E study, as published in the Annals of Internal Medicine. The researchers examined 19 different studies where vitamin E supplements were used. The total number of participants in these 19 studies was 135,967, with 12,504 deaths from all causes. The people in the study ranged in age from 47 to 84 years. The average death risk in the control groups that did not take vitamin E supplements was 1022 per 10,000 persons. This figure rose by 10 deaths, to 1032 per 10,000, among users of high-dose (more than 400 IU) of vitamin E.
The authors concluded that “Overall, vitamin E supplementation did not affect all-cause mortality.” That is not what you heard in televised news reports or in the newspapers. What you heard was there is a 5 to 10 percent (5 to 10 in 100) increased risk of dying from taking high-dose vitamin E supplements. The way health statisticians tabulate their data is to list the relative difference in risk. So in this case the risk for the control group that didn’t vitamin E supplement pills is listed as 1.00, and the relative risk of dying for people taking low-dose vitamin E supplements was 0.98 and for high-dose vitamin E supplements 1.04. This appears as a 6% relative difference, but in hard numbers the risk rose by 10 in 10,000 persons, or 1 in 1000 (about 1/10th of one percent). This is what health statisticians say is “statistically significant.”
There are biases and underlying factors in many published medical reports. This report was no exception. The authors of the study indicate, among the 19 studies they examined, “Most of the trials examined targeted populations at high risk for a chronic disease, most often coronary heart disease.” This fact obviously skewed the results. A recent study, the Vitamins and Lifestyle (VITAL) study, conducted among 45,748 participants ranging in age from 50 to 75 years, revealed that persons with cardiovascular disease are more likely to be taking vitamin E supplements. [American Journal Preventive Medicine 24: 43-51, 2003] People who have heart and blood vessel disease are at a greater risk of dying and are more likely to take high-dose vitamin E supplements.
Here are the charts from the study for your examination. The authors show that there is a very, very slight increased risk when comparing low-dose to high-dose vitamin E supplements, but remember the people with heart and blood vessel disease are more likely to be taking these high doses.
Meta-Analysis: High-Dosage Vitamin E Supplementation May Increase All-Cause Mortality Edgar R. Miller III, MD, et al., Annals Internal Medicine, January 4, 2005, Volume 142.
In the chart above the solid line moves from low-dose vitamin E consumption on the left to high-dose vitamin E on the right. The circles and dots represent various published studies of vitamin E supplements. The chart indicates anything above zero is potentially “harmful.” If this chart were calibrated to list risk by percent (so many among 100 people), the line would be absolutely flat. But the chart calculates in 1/1000th of one
Are Americans Really At Increased Risk of Dying From High-Dose Vitamin E Pills?
Examine The Data For Yourself
Now that Americans have been besieged with the report that high-dose vitamin E supplements may increase the risk of death, one wonders how millions of people were misled into taking vitamin E pills. Are you really at an increased risk of dying if you take 400 international units or more of vitamin E? Examine the evidence for yourself.
Here are the analytical charts, along with direct wording from the vitamin E study, as published in the Annals of Internal Medicine. The researchers examined 19 different studies where vitamin E supplements were used. The total number of participants in these 19 studies was 135,967, with 12,504 deaths from all causes. The people in the study ranged in age from 47 to 84 years. The average death risk in the control groups that did not take vitamin E supplements was 1022 per 10,000 persons. This figure rose by 10 deaths, to 1032 per 10,000, among users of high-dose (more than 400 IU) of vitamin E.
The authors concluded that “Overall, vitamin E supplementation did not affect all-cause mortality.” That is not what you heard in televised news reports or in the newspapers. What you heard was there is a 5 to 10 percent (5 to 10 in 100) increased risk of dying from taking high-dose vitamin E supplements. The way health statisticians tabulate their data is to list the relative difference in risk. So in this case the risk for the control group that didn’t vitamin E supplement pills is listed as 1.00, and the relative risk of dying for people taking low-dose vitamin E supplements was 0.98 and for high-dose vitamin E supplements 1.04. This appears as a 6% relative difference, but in hard numbers the risk rose by 10 in 10,000 persons, or 1 in 1000 (about 1/10th of one percent). This is what health statisticians say is “statistically significant.”
There are biases and underlying factors in many published medical reports. This report was no exception. The authors of the study indicate, among the 19 studies they examined, “Most of the trials examined targeted populations at high risk for a chronic disease, most often coronary heart disease.” This fact obviously skewed the results. A recent study, the Vitamins and Lifestyle (VITAL) study, conducted among 45,748 participants ranging in age from 50 to 75 years, revealed that persons with cardiovascular disease are more likely to be taking vitamin E supplements. [American Journal Preventive Medicine 24: 43-51, 2003] People who have heart and blood vessel disease are at a greater risk of dying and are more likely to take high-dose vitamin E supplements.
Here are the charts from the study for your examination. The authors show that there is a very, very slight increased risk when comparing low-dose to high-dose vitamin E supplements, but remember the people with heart and blood vessel disease are more likely to be taking these high doses.
Meta-Analysis: High-Dosage Vitamin E Supplementation May Increase All-Cause Mortality Edgar R. Miller III, MD, et al., Annals Internal Medicine, January 4, 2005, Volume 142.
In the chart above the solid line moves from low-dose vitamin E consumption on the left to high-dose vitamin E on the right. The circles and dots represent various published studies of vitamin E supplements. The chart indicates anything above zero is potentially “harmful.” If this chart were calibrated to list risk by percent (so many among 100 people), the line would be absolutely flat. But the chart calculates in 1/1000th of one
#8
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Posted 11 November 2004 - 09:28 PM
Here is the full rebuttal of Dr. Verkerk of the Alliance for Natural Health (ANH), only a couple of lines which were used in the BBC story on this Vitamin E study.. http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/3998847.stm
Information on the International Alliance for Health Freedom whose mailing list sent this out can be obtained here.
Information on the International Alliance for Health Freedom whose mailing list sent this out can be obtained here.
"It does not come to us as a shock that a meta-analysis of 19 clinical trials shows little beneficial effect from high doses of some forms of Vitamin E. In fact, results from these studies are well known and have been well publicised, particularly in Sweden. Although the John Hopkins study has not been publicly released, we assume that the studies included in the meta-analysis are very likely to have involved only one particular formof Vitamin E, namely alpha-tocopherol, which is often produced synthetically.
A convincing body of evidence now points to the fact that alpha-tocopherol in supplements, particularly at high doses, might reduce the body's uptake of vital components of Vitamin E which are much more effective antioxidants than alpha-tocopherol (e.g. Handelman GJ et al,J Nutr 115; 807-13,1985; Burton GH et al,Am J Clin Nutr67; 669-84, 1998; Huang HY, Appel LJ.J Nutr 133; 3137-40, 2003.) These components includegamma- and beta-tocopherols, and tocotrienols.
It is a very rich irony that the European Commission has seen fit to allow the alpha-tocopherol form in its its new Food Supplement Directive, set to come in to force in August 2005 across Europe if unchallenged,whilst it bans the natural, food forms, which are much more beneficial as food supplements. This is one reason why we are challenging the Directive in the European Court of Justice next year.
Negative publicity about Vitamin E, which is likely to follow as a result of misinterpretations over the science behind the John Hopkins study, could scare people unnecessarily and stop them using important food supplements. Food supplements are invaluable as a means of guaranteeing levels of key nutrients, such as natural Vitamin E, known to be depleted or deficient in the diet of large numbers of people."
#9
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 05:49 PM
I can't wait to hear what AORsupport has to say about this...
Then I'm sorry to keep you waiting
. I think that the essential point has been made. While many forces in the supplement industry would like to deny it, the meta-analysis shows exactly what one would expect from the research on vitamin E that's been emerging for the last decade or so. AOR has been warning the life extension community for years that high dose alpha-tocopherol (not "vitamin E," as the press insists on calling it) supplements are a threat to your cardiovascular and other health, because they drive out other key E vitamers such as gamma-tocopherol and tocotrienols. Extensive evidence suggests that it is these vitamers, rather than alpha-tocopherol, that are responsible for the epidemiological data supporting a protective role of vitamin E in health. After just three days of supplementing with 400 IU of alpha-tocopherol, peoples’ gamma-tocopherol levels plummet by more than two-thirds. In fact, as little as 100 IU of alpha-tocopherol can force your gamma-tocopherol levels down to 30% below what they would be if you were taking no supplement at all. And after one year of alpha-tocopherol supplementation, it may take as much as two years to fully restore the body’s alpha-to-gamma-tocopherol ratio.
Even counterbalancing alpha-tocopherol with an equal amount of the “other†E vitamers isn’t enough to prevent this supplement-induced deficiency: the excessive alpha-tocopherol still drives out gamma-, leaving your levels 30% below what they would naturally be if you just ate a regular diet.
To avoid these problems, one should always take at least twice as much of the "other" E vitamers as of alpha-tocopherol. This includes eg. the few hundred IUs of alpha in your multivitamin.
AOR has an excellent article on their site explaining which forms are best etc...
The site has an older, more detailed article on the E complex and a more up-to-date but less detailed piece. We have a much more detailed and more up-to-date article intended for eventual publication. But the bottom line, as we've said for years, is that unbalanced "vitamin E" (alpha-tocopherol) supplementation is a bad idea.
I'm on the email list for http://www.askbillsardi.com and he sent this analysis of the study.
This is a pretty sloppy analysis.
Are Americans Really At Increased Risk of Dying From High-Dose Vitamin E Pills?
Examine The Data For Yourself
The authors concluded that "Overall, vitamin E supplementation did not affect all-cause mortality." That is not what you heard in televised news reports or in the newspapers. What you heard was there is a 5 to 10 percent (5 to 10 in 100) increased risk of dying from taking high-dose vitamin E supplements.
That's because that what the study found: "9 of 11 trials testing high-dosage vitamin E (≥400 IU/d) showed increased risk (risk difference > 0) for all-cause mortality in comparisons of vitamin E versus control. The pooled all-cause mortality risk difference in high-dosage vitamin E trials was 39 per 10 000 persons (95% CI, 3 to 74 per 10 000 persons; P = 0.035)."
The results from all studies, when pooled, found a null effect because "For low-dosage vitamin E trials, the risk difference was –16 per 10 000 persons (CI, –41 to 10 per 10 000 persons; P > 0.2). A dose–response analysis showed a statistically significant relationship between vitamin E dosage and all-cause mortality, with increased risk of dosages greater than 150 IU/d."
It's not actually clear that even these relatively low doses of unbalanced alpha-tocopherol are exonerated by the study, because nearly all of the relatively low-dose alpha-tocopherol trials (Linxiang, SU.VI.MAX, MIN.VIT.AOX) also included selenium, which at this point is pretty overwhelmingly documented to reduce total mortality. The one relatively low-dose alpha-tocopherol trial (ATBC) that did not include selenium reported an increase in total mortality, although the use of synthetic beta-carotene can't have helped:
Meta-Analysis: High-Dosage Vitamin E Supplementation May Increase All-Cause Mortality Edgar R. Miller III, MD, et al., Annals Internal Medicine, January 4, 2005, Volume 142.
Thus, even the apparent protective effect of "low-dose" alpha-tocopherol regimens might well have vanished or even turned into increased mortality if the selenium had not been included in the cocktail.
The way health statisticians tabulate their data is to list the relative difference in risk. So in this case the risk for the control group that didn't vitamin E supplement pills is listed as 1.00, and the relative risk of dying for people taking low-dose vitamin E supplements was 0.98 and for high-dose vitamin E supplements 1.04. This appears as a 6% relative difference, but in hard numbers the risk rose by 10 in 10,000 persons, or 1 in 1000 (about 1/10th of one percent). This is what health statisticians say is "statistically significant."
It's also what objective investigators call "the scientific method." So what's the objection to the specific statement that high-dose alpha-tocopherol was associated with a small increase in risk of mortality? That's exactly what the meta-analysis shows.
There are biases and underlying factors in many published medical reports. This report was no exception. The authors of the study indicate, among the 19 studies they examined, "Most of the trials examined targeted populations at high risk for a chronic disease, most often coronary heart disease." This fact obviously skewed the results. A recent study, the Vitamins and Lifestyle (VITAL) study, conducted among 45,748 participants ranging in age from 50 to 75 years, revealed that persons with cardiovascular disease are more likely to be taking vitamin E supplements. [American Journal Preventive Medicine 24: 43-51, 2003] People who have heart and blood vessel disease are at a greater risk of dying and are more likely to take high-dose vitamin E supplements.
It appears that either Mr. Sardi has not read the study, or does not understand the difference between epidemiology and controlled trials. This report is a meta-analysis of randomized placebo-controlled trials. All of the subjects had CVD. Half of them got alpha-tocopherol, half of them got placebos. The above bias is a confounder to epidemiology, but totally irrelevant to the present report -- or, if anything, it might tend to minimize the magnitude of the effect, because some people on placebos might have been taking alpha-tocopherol supplements on the side.
To your health!
AOR
#12
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Posted 19 November 2004 - 05:30 AM
Bradcure (and AORsupport),
My apologies--I typed a reply to you without seeing AORsupport's reply before mine.
Given AORsupports track record, bottom line is that is likely a bad idea. I would suggest to get all, or at least a large fraction of your vitamin E from a "true mixed" i.e. one that states how much d-alpha, beta gamma and delta is in it e.g. AOR, or thorne, carotec, there may be others.
My apologies--I typed a reply to you without seeing AORsupport's reply before mine.
Given AORsupports track record, bottom line is that is likely a bad idea. I would suggest to get all, or at least a large fraction of your vitamin E from a "true mixed" i.e. one that states how much d-alpha, beta gamma and delta is in it e.g. AOR, or thorne, carotec, there may be others.
#13
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Posted 20 November 2004 - 12:50 AM
I am a little reluctant to post given that I am not not an expert, but this is good conversation.
In a nut shell: The human race is pretty stupid sometimes. [glasses] In a nut shell: Even the recent Vitamin research is flawed with flawed samples. In a nut shell: The more I learn about this stuff, the more I find out, I don't know anything.
Where are the studies on full spectrum vitamin E complex?
However, in spite of knowing little I guess I think I trust http://www.aor.ca/ma...n_E_Complex.pdf since they have been talking about it since 2001. I remember guys on the boards talking about full spectrum vitamin long before the study came out.
Who is AOR? How did they earn their reputation?
What does this say about the efficacy of fat soluble vitamins? Or supplements in general? Geeze, Alpha tocopherol?
If there are any other vitamins and minerals that you think I should be careful of, please let me know. I know that iron is very OD-able. Maybe Potassium.
In a nut shell: I have to tell my dad he was right so long it was Alpha. He just had a bi-pass. I bet he has a 5%, (more or less) higher likelyhood of dying if he is taking lots of an E supplement used in the research. I know one product he is already taking and it is 70IU or 230% RDA with nothing specific about the spectrum.
Thanks in advance and in the past,
Pinball
In a nut shell: The human race is pretty stupid sometimes. [glasses] In a nut shell: Even the recent Vitamin research is flawed with flawed samples. In a nut shell: The more I learn about this stuff, the more I find out, I don't know anything.
Where are the studies on full spectrum vitamin E complex?
However, in spite of knowing little I guess I think I trust http://www.aor.ca/ma...n_E_Complex.pdf since they have been talking about it since 2001. I remember guys on the boards talking about full spectrum vitamin long before the study came out.
Who is AOR? How did they earn their reputation?
What does this say about the efficacy of fat soluble vitamins? Or supplements in general? Geeze, Alpha tocopherol?
If there are any other vitamins and minerals that you think I should be careful of, please let me know. I know that iron is very OD-able. Maybe Potassium.
In a nut shell: I have to tell my dad he was right so long it was Alpha. He just had a bi-pass. I bet he has a 5%, (more or less) higher likelyhood of dying if he is taking lots of an E supplement used in the research. I know one product he is already taking and it is 70IU or 230% RDA with nothing specific about the spectrum.
Thanks in advance and in the past,
Pinball
#14
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Posted 12 December 2004 - 06:48 PM
Dear ALL
While I totally agree that not all forms of vitamin E should be vilified, we must not forget that there is more to vitamin E than gamma-tocopherol (or alpha-tocopherol). Specifically - the tocotrienols, which are naturally occurring forms of Vitamin E as well.
It is unfortunate that not many Americans and Canadians are aware of tocotrienols due to the low level in the Western diets. Tocotrienols are found in the western diet/food such as cereals, grains, barley and oats. I wish to draw your attention to the difference between tocopherol and tocotrienol. Both of these compounds are Vitamin E and are categorized in the family of Vitamin E. Both tocotrienol and tocopherol have the same chromanol ring as the head. The only difference structurally is in their isoprenoid side chain. Tocotrienol has three unsaturated bonds in its isoprenoid side chain whereas tocopherol has all saturated carbon bonds in its side chain. In a very loose term, tocotrienol can be defined as the unsaturated from of tocopherol. While very similar in structure to tocopherol, the tocotrienols have additional biological activities which are not shown by the alpha-tocopherol.
In many foods, alpha- and gamma-tocopherol account for most of the vitamin E activity. While tocopherols are generally present in common vegetable oils (i.e. soy, canola, wheat germ, sunflower), tocotrienols, on the other hand, are concentrated in cereal grains (i.e. oat, barley, and rye, rice bran), with the highest level found in crude palm oil. For more information on tocotrienol, visit the educational website : www.tocotrienol.org
In light of the controversial vitamin E meta-analysis publication (Annals of Internal Medicine, Nov, 2004), perhaps, we should look at vitamin E supplementation from a different perspective - that vitamin E should be taken as a wholesome mixture of d-mixed tocopherols and d-mixed tocotrienols. Taking a single form of vitamin E (ie : alpha-tocopherol alone or with combination with gamma-tocopherol) denies the very fact that nature put four (4) other forms on vitamin E (ie : tocotrienols) out there for a reason.
As a matter of fact, we have seen this phenomenon before - the beta-carotene debacle in 1996 (The ATBC and CARET studies). These two studies provided evidence that taking beta-carotene alone rather than a multi-carotenoids (beta-carotene, alpha-carotene, gamma-carotene, lycopene, lutein - as produce in nature), may increase the cancer risks among smokers. This is because all these carotenoids work synergistically as a team - recharging and supporting each other to confer the health benefits.
One should be taking the wholesome full spectrum vitamin E : d mixed tocopherols + d-mixed tocotrienols (I called it "E COMPLETE") - as what is produce and found in nature. Mimicking nature is the best way for supplementation. Like the carotenoids, all these different forms of vitamin E work synergistically and depends on each other for optimum functionality.
For those who would like to have a list of peer-reviewed scientific publication on the unique health benefits of palm tocotrienol complex (Tocomin), please email to me. I would be happy to mail them to you.
What is of utmost importance is to educate the consumers of the need to take a full spectrum vitamin E instead of a single form of vitamin E. Natural phytonutrients just don't work well in isolation from each other.
I sincerely believe (based on published scientific evidence) that most people would benefit from taking a full spectrum Vitamin E supplement that consists of d-mixed tocopherols + d-mixed tocotrienols. And it would be safer than just the alpha-tocopherol or gamma-tocopherol alone.
Thank you
Yours truly,
WH Leong
Carotech Inc
Email : carot3@aol.com
The Largest Producer of Natural Full Spectrum Tocotrienol Complex.
While I totally agree that not all forms of vitamin E should be vilified, we must not forget that there is more to vitamin E than gamma-tocopherol (or alpha-tocopherol). Specifically - the tocotrienols, which are naturally occurring forms of Vitamin E as well.
It is unfortunate that not many Americans and Canadians are aware of tocotrienols due to the low level in the Western diets. Tocotrienols are found in the western diet/food such as cereals, grains, barley and oats. I wish to draw your attention to the difference between tocopherol and tocotrienol. Both of these compounds are Vitamin E and are categorized in the family of Vitamin E. Both tocotrienol and tocopherol have the same chromanol ring as the head. The only difference structurally is in their isoprenoid side chain. Tocotrienol has three unsaturated bonds in its isoprenoid side chain whereas tocopherol has all saturated carbon bonds in its side chain. In a very loose term, tocotrienol can be defined as the unsaturated from of tocopherol. While very similar in structure to tocopherol, the tocotrienols have additional biological activities which are not shown by the alpha-tocopherol.
In many foods, alpha- and gamma-tocopherol account for most of the vitamin E activity. While tocopherols are generally present in common vegetable oils (i.e. soy, canola, wheat germ, sunflower), tocotrienols, on the other hand, are concentrated in cereal grains (i.e. oat, barley, and rye, rice bran), with the highest level found in crude palm oil. For more information on tocotrienol, visit the educational website : www.tocotrienol.org
In light of the controversial vitamin E meta-analysis publication (Annals of Internal Medicine, Nov, 2004), perhaps, we should look at vitamin E supplementation from a different perspective - that vitamin E should be taken as a wholesome mixture of d-mixed tocopherols and d-mixed tocotrienols. Taking a single form of vitamin E (ie : alpha-tocopherol alone or with combination with gamma-tocopherol) denies the very fact that nature put four (4) other forms on vitamin E (ie : tocotrienols) out there for a reason.
As a matter of fact, we have seen this phenomenon before - the beta-carotene debacle in 1996 (The ATBC and CARET studies). These two studies provided evidence that taking beta-carotene alone rather than a multi-carotenoids (beta-carotene, alpha-carotene, gamma-carotene, lycopene, lutein - as produce in nature), may increase the cancer risks among smokers. This is because all these carotenoids work synergistically as a team - recharging and supporting each other to confer the health benefits.
One should be taking the wholesome full spectrum vitamin E : d mixed tocopherols + d-mixed tocotrienols (I called it "E COMPLETE") - as what is produce and found in nature. Mimicking nature is the best way for supplementation. Like the carotenoids, all these different forms of vitamin E work synergistically and depends on each other for optimum functionality.
For those who would like to have a list of peer-reviewed scientific publication on the unique health benefits of palm tocotrienol complex (Tocomin), please email to me. I would be happy to mail them to you.
What is of utmost importance is to educate the consumers of the need to take a full spectrum vitamin E instead of a single form of vitamin E. Natural phytonutrients just don't work well in isolation from each other.
I sincerely believe (based on published scientific evidence) that most people would benefit from taking a full spectrum Vitamin E supplement that consists of d-mixed tocopherols + d-mixed tocotrienols. And it would be safer than just the alpha-tocopherol or gamma-tocopherol alone.
Thank you
Yours truly,
WH Leong
Carotech Inc
Email : carot3@aol.com
The Largest Producer of Natural Full Spectrum Tocotrienol Complex.
#15
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Posted 13 December 2004 - 06:04 AM
UPDATE
I talked to some nutritionist/supplement retailer. She told me that alpha under 150 IU is fine (which is according to the study). While she is not selling tocotrienols she remarked that none of our competitors are and few have all the tocopherols but they are going to put all the -pherols in their new multi-vitamin.
I think from my lay-person perspective I can speculate that you have the full spectrum of the pherols and tocotrienols. The lady on the phone failed to recognize we can get tocotrienols more easily than she thinks.
I think the safety be damned E Regimen is not too much and Full spectrum... under 150 IU. I thought that is 10 E vitamers total. BAC has tocotrienols sold seperately as does AOR.
I talked to some nutritionist/supplement retailer. She told me that alpha under 150 IU is fine (which is according to the study). While she is not selling tocotrienols she remarked that none of our competitors are and few have all the tocopherols but they are going to put all the -pherols in their new multi-vitamin.
I think from my lay-person perspective I can speculate that you have the full spectrum of the pherols and tocotrienols. The lady on the phone failed to recognize we can get tocotrienols more easily than she thinks.
I think the safety be damned E Regimen is not too much and Full spectrum... under 150 IU. I thought that is 10 E vitamers total. BAC has tocotrienols sold seperately as does AOR.
#16
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Posted 16 December 2004 - 09:33 PM
UPDATE
I
I think from my lay-person perspective I can speculate that you have the full spectrum of the pherols and tocotrienols. The lady on the phone failed to recognize we can get tocotrienols more easily than she thinks.
I think the safety be damned E Regimen is not too much and Full spectrum... under 150 IU. I thought that is 10 E vitamers total. BAC has tocotrienols sold seperately as does AOR.
I take the Natrol brand "Tocotrien-All" , alpha-tocopherols 30iu, gamma-tocotrienols 45mg, alpha-tocotrienols 4mg, delta-tocotrienols 1mg for a total of 50mg Tocotrienol Complex. I also take a separate mixed tocopherol 400IU.
#17
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Posted 07 January 2005 - 06:29 PM
Taking just alpha tocopherol will deplete gamma tocopherol (link) and studies show that gamma tocopherol has better anti-inflammatory ability and is better at quenching peroxynitrite.
Most of the vitamin E studies have been done using just alpha tocopherol and most of them have been positive, so also taking beta, gamma and delta tocopherols and tocotrienols would give even better results.
This website is started by researchers on vitamin E and they say people should continue taking vitamin E and that the study that says it is dangerous to take vitamin E is flawed:
http://www.vitaminefacts.org/
I took Gamma E 400 from Source Naturals, however it makes me feel sick and nauseous, I think this is from the oil in it.
Lef. org and Jarrow also sell vitamin E that is high in gamma tocopherol, but I think they also contain oil, at least the Jarrow one does, it contains soybean oil.
There is a product called Unique vitamin E from AC Grace Company and they say they have removed all oil from it, however it contains 300 mg gamma tocopherol and 268 mg alpha tocopherol and the ones from Lef.org, Jarrow and Source Naturals contain only small amounts of alpha tocopherol, something like 35-50 mg and they say the ratio of gamma to alpha should be something like 3-2 : 1 , so maybe there is too much alpha tocopherol in the Unique vitamin E product and this could oppose the action of the gamma tocopherol in it and even deplete it? I don´t know about his.
Does anyone know what a good ratio of gamma to alpha tocopherol should be?
Most of the vitamin E studies have been done using just alpha tocopherol and most of them have been positive, so also taking beta, gamma and delta tocopherols and tocotrienols would give even better results.
This website is started by researchers on vitamin E and they say people should continue taking vitamin E and that the study that says it is dangerous to take vitamin E is flawed:
http://www.vitaminefacts.org/
I took Gamma E 400 from Source Naturals, however it makes me feel sick and nauseous, I think this is from the oil in it.
Lef. org and Jarrow also sell vitamin E that is high in gamma tocopherol, but I think they also contain oil, at least the Jarrow one does, it contains soybean oil.
There is a product called Unique vitamin E from AC Grace Company and they say they have removed all oil from it, however it contains 300 mg gamma tocopherol and 268 mg alpha tocopherol and the ones from Lef.org, Jarrow and Source Naturals contain only small amounts of alpha tocopherol, something like 35-50 mg and they say the ratio of gamma to alpha should be something like 3-2 : 1 , so maybe there is too much alpha tocopherol in the Unique vitamin E product and this could oppose the action of the gamma tocopherol in it and even deplete it? I don´t know about his.
Does anyone know what a good ratio of gamma to alpha tocopherol should be?
#20
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- Location:New England
Posted 10 January 2005 - 01:39 AM
I will add my two cents since I had already posted this on my immortality.org Yahoo Group.
Sorry for any information that may be redundant.
Duane
Regarding Vitamin E
Recently Vitamin E has made the news with a study indicating that
high doses may increase mortality. The study that published this
result was actually a study of studies or meta-analysis of studies
with different methodologies. Therefore it is very difficult to take
the results at face value. Data was pooled from high dose and low
dose studies and a difference of about 50 deaths per 10,000 subjects
was noted. To really address this issue a focused study designed to
address this hypothesis should be undertaken.
Even though interpreting this study is difficult it is wise to be
prudent in one's supplementation regimen. It is useful to consider
the biochemistry underlying vitamin E and take that into account
when deciding on how to supplement. Vitamin E exists in several
different forms in a family known as the tocopherols. The main
members of this family are alpha, beta, gamma and delta tocopherol.
Alpha tocopherol comprises the vast majority of available
supplements. Alpha tocopherol has been termed "vitamin E" because in
rat fertility experiments in the 1920's it was the most potent
member of the tocopherol family. Vitamin E is found in fatty foods
and a vitamin E deficiency due to low fat diets may be related to
infertility.
These pioneering studies became what I call a legacy experiment- a
single experiment that leads to interpretations and application
beyond the evidence presented by the experiment. Therefore alpha
tocopherol became practically the sole focus for supplementation in
humans with no evidence that it was the best form for optimal
health. Recently investigations have tried to resolve the
discrepancies observed between high intake of vitamin E in the diet
versus high intake by supplementation. A high dietary intake has
been observed to be more effective in disease prevention (heart
disease in particular) than a high intake via supplemental alpha
tocopherol. The reason for this could be that the other members of
the tocopherol family are necessary for optimal health. There is
even some evidence that high doses of alpha tocopherol may displace
gamma tocopherol and by this action may have detrimental health
effects.
The bottom line is that it appears to be prudent to supplement with
vitamin E complex rather than just alpha tocopherol.
Sorry for any information that may be redundant.
Duane
Regarding Vitamin E
Recently Vitamin E has made the news with a study indicating that
high doses may increase mortality. The study that published this
result was actually a study of studies or meta-analysis of studies
with different methodologies. Therefore it is very difficult to take
the results at face value. Data was pooled from high dose and low
dose studies and a difference of about 50 deaths per 10,000 subjects
was noted. To really address this issue a focused study designed to
address this hypothesis should be undertaken.
Even though interpreting this study is difficult it is wise to be
prudent in one's supplementation regimen. It is useful to consider
the biochemistry underlying vitamin E and take that into account
when deciding on how to supplement. Vitamin E exists in several
different forms in a family known as the tocopherols. The main
members of this family are alpha, beta, gamma and delta tocopherol.
Alpha tocopherol comprises the vast majority of available
supplements. Alpha tocopherol has been termed "vitamin E" because in
rat fertility experiments in the 1920's it was the most potent
member of the tocopherol family. Vitamin E is found in fatty foods
and a vitamin E deficiency due to low fat diets may be related to
infertility.
These pioneering studies became what I call a legacy experiment- a
single experiment that leads to interpretations and application
beyond the evidence presented by the experiment. Therefore alpha
tocopherol became practically the sole focus for supplementation in
humans with no evidence that it was the best form for optimal
health. Recently investigations have tried to resolve the
discrepancies observed between high intake of vitamin E in the diet
versus high intake by supplementation. A high dietary intake has
been observed to be more effective in disease prevention (heart
disease in particular) than a high intake via supplemental alpha
tocopherol. The reason for this could be that the other members of
the tocopherol family are necessary for optimal health. There is
even some evidence that high doses of alpha tocopherol may displace
gamma tocopherol and by this action may have detrimental health
effects.
The bottom line is that it appears to be prudent to supplement with
vitamin E complex rather than just alpha tocopherol.
#21
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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:29 PM
Just wanted to mention, I know this is an old thread and Tocotrienols are really the way for e vitamers, according to my readings. Palm oil extracts If anyone is reading this. I'm looking for a supplement that contains a high amount of Alpha Carotenes. Any suggestions, thanks!
#25
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- Guest
- 673 posts
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- Location:USA
Posted 03 March 2016 - 06:34 PM
Agreed, thanks for your interest here. I'm having the best results by combining( Nutricology) Tocomin SupraBio Tocotrienols with R plus(Geronova) and a (Country Life) carotenoid complex. A person can get 2 of those plus 3.7 mgs of Alpha Carotene with an expensive bulk palm oil extract called "Palm Fruit" from Botanical Craft. Expensive and it needs to be mixed in with yogurt for the best absorbtion. Bottomline is: high amounts of trienols, and highest Alpha Carotenes, throw in some rla, then hopefully, feel better soon. I would remember that not all supplements are created equal. The best selection and lowest price is Vitacost.com, the others are geronova and botanicalcraft. I hope that helps some one. Love saves!
Edited by 2tender, 03 March 2016 - 06:49 PM.
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