Best whey protein?

Started by Shepard , Jul 23 2005 02:02 PM

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#1 Shepard

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 02:02 PM

Since I finally finished up my tub of Isopure, what whey protein do you guys recommend? I've looked for other proteins besides your typical ones sold at the large bodybuilding sites, but didn't find anything other than some articles on manufacturing processes. Also, concentrate or isolate? I know I've read that concentrate is the best if you aren't necessarily going for maximum protein or near-immediate digestion.

#2 DukeNukem

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 03:28 PM

The whey sold by LEF is about as good as it gets. The key things to look for are:

o Cold-processed (heat damages/denatures the protein)
o No sweetener added (except stevia)

The best whey I've seen but not yet tried (I have some ordered), is this:
http://www.mercola.c...y_healthier.htm

This whey is made from chemical-free, free-range, properly fed (no corn meal) cows.

#3 Paul Idol

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 03:44 PM

The LEF's is great, as Duke says, though I don't know what sort of feed and medications the cows are getting, so I'm not sure what the potential downside is. I'm particularly partial to Goatein, a goat whey protein concentrate from milk goats that are guarenteed to have been given no medications or hormones and to have been exposed to no pesticides.

The one Mercola's selling, though, looks a little troubling despite having some excellent positive attributes. Here's the ingredient list:

ProserumTM whey protein concentrate, lecithin, flaxseed, vanilla flavor, GlutImmune™ (covalent bonded glutamine), magnesium (buffered glycinate chelate), conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), L-taurine, ascorbic acid, n-zymes™ (amylase, protease 4.5, protease 3.0, protease 6.0, lactase), inositol, d-alpha tocopheryl succinate, Zinc Chelazome, selenomethionine, d-biotin, niacinamide, pyridoxine HCl, riboflavin, thiamine HCl, folic acid, Chromium Chelavite , cyanocobalamin.

Why flax? I don't want any flax. And why extra glutamine? Not that the extra glutamine is likely to be a problem with all that other protein in the mix, but still, I'm not sure about it. And I'd rather avoid any supplemental CLA, and cyanocobalamin is a cruddy form of B12. So for now I'm sticking to Goatein.

#4 DukeNukem

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 04:53 PM

The only issue with Goatein is that it's a full milk product, and therefore includes the undesirable casein protein along with the whey protein. Now then, if there was a whey-only version of Goatein, then it'd be the best, no question. Oh, and Goatein is radically more expensive than cow derived whey powders! ;-)

As for the added stuff in the Mercola-recommended product, I wish it wasn't there, too, but I don't think there's much of a downside to it. Overall, while I wouldn't use this product for pre- and post-workouts (pure whey plus simple carbs is all you want during these times), I think it's fine for using in meal-replacement shakes, or for adding to oatmeal, etc.

Scott

#5 LifeMirage

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 08:44 PM

My top picks are LEF's CFM Whey and Source Naturals Organic Whey Protein.

#6 wannafulfill

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 09:15 PM

My vote is for allthewhey natural whey protein isolate, unflavored

#7 darauch

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 01:08 AM

benfranklin, what's wrong with flax?

#8 johnmk

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 06:48 AM

Whey is too fast a protein I thought. I typically prefer calcium or sodium casseinate, or milk protein concentrates/isolates. Slower digesting, more anabolic and anti-catabolic, or so I read.

#9 Paul Idol

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 03:01 PM

Flax is a poor source of Omega-3 fats. Animals need the long-chain n3 fats, like DHA and EPA. The shorter-chain LNA found in vegetable sources has no metabolic purpose that I know of, and humans have a very inefficient elongating mechanism. Also, that mechanism is one of the first things to go with a lot of health conditions. Fish and organic pastured eggs are great n3 sources, by contrast.

I don't know that there's enough flax in Mercola's Whey Healthier to make that much of a difference in that respect, but there's also the rancidity issue to consider. Flax seeds go rancid extremely quickly, which is why if you do use flax, you should grind it right before use, preferably with something which won't oxidize the flax just by grinding it.

#10 Paul Idol

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 03:02 PM

John-

Yeah, that's another reason I think Goatein is probably about as good as it gets — it's a complete milk protein, so it's slower. Fast and peaky is generally not a good thing.

#11 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 03:08 PM

johnmk add some good fats to you protein shake and you have slow releasing whey protein drink.
my vote goes for "cheap" pure whey proteins like optimum or iss research (of course those with no sugar or fat addedd).

#12 DukeNukem

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 06:32 PM

>>> Flax is a poor source of Omega-3 fats.

Ben, very true (and yet most vegetarians happily supplement with flax oil, falsely believing they're getting their important omega-3 coverage). However, flax fiber & lignans are exceptionally good for you (if fresh).

As for whey, while it is a fast digesting protein, that doesn't matter during daytime use, as long as you're getting protein every three hours (as your body doesn't store protein or amino acids like it does fat and glucose -- it needs to be replenished every three hours, which is why body builders eat so often). Casein is a slow digesting protein and often used by body builders for nighttime supplementation to prevent catabolic wasting, BUT casein is a cancer-promoting pro-aging supplement, and therefore I do not use it. Instead, I'll eat lean, free-range turkey breast at night for the same anti-catabolic effect.

I found this online excerpt from The China Study, relating to casein:
http://www.powerattu...article126.html

Here's a more hardcore article:
http://www.nature.co...l/7590997a.html

#13 wannafulfill

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 08:01 PM

>>> Flax is a poor source of Omega-3 fats.

Ben, very true (and yet most vegetarians happily supplement with flax oil, falsely believing they're getting their important omega-3 coverage). However, flax fiber & lignans are exceptionally good for you (if fresh).

As for whey, while it is a fast digesting protein, that doesn't matter during daytime use, as long as you're getting protein every three hours (as your body doesn't store protein or amino acids like it does fat and glucose -- it needs to be replenished every three hours, which is why body builders eat so often). Casein is a slow digesting protein and often used by body builders for nighttime supplementation to prevent catabolic wasting, BUT casein is a cancer-promoting pro-aging supplement, and therefore I do not use it. Instead, I'll eat lean, free-range turkey breast at night for the same anti-catabolic effect.

I found this online excerpt from The China Study, relating to casein:
http://www.powerattu...article126.html

Here's a more hardcore article:
http://www.nature.co...l/7590997a.html

Thanks, dukenukem. I was not aware of some of those properties of casein.

#14 DukeNukem

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 11:40 PM

Yeah, practically nobody seems to be aware of the casein time bomb, even though there's been a lot of research worldwide showing its cancer promoting quality. This is why I avoid all dairy, with the exception of whey supplementation.

So many CRer's I know eat dairy, perhaps sabotaging their efforts. This, along with flax oil supplementation (laughably poor source of beneficial omega-3's, and known to encourage issues with the prostate and breast), are the two tragic mistakes I see CRer's make.

#15 scottl

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 10:24 AM

RE: flax being poor source of omega 3s

I do recommend fish oil over flax but mainly because to my knowledge one can't be sure of the conversion rate of flax i.e. ALA to EPA/DHA. But to my knowledge you can't be sure that the conversion is poor either. I've seen varying conversion rates quoted. So on what basis are you saying you're sure the conversation rate is poor?

As far as the prostate cancer link....what is the data based on? Not flax. Poor quality ALA sources in the diet which might be rancid (given how easily ala goes rancid)?

And I hadn't heard of the breast cancer link, where did you run across that?

#16 Paul Idol

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 03:56 PM

The casein time bomb? I'd like to point out that those rats were fed AFLATOXIN. I'm sorry for the shouting, but that seems like a pretty important point.

I don't have time to dig into the second article, but are any of you familiar with the work of Weston A. Price? He was a dentist who toured the world back in the early part of the last century looking for the healthiest tribes he could find and examining their diets. Many of the very healthiest peoples, whose health dwarfs ours, consumed plenty of milk. Of course, it was raw, and from cows raised exclusively on pasture, so there's a fairly significant difference there, but that's why I stick to Goatein.

As to flax, I forgot another reason to avoid them: phytoestrogens. They're particularly dense in high-lignan flax, which is often promoted as the "healthiest".

#17 DukeNukem

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 05:48 PM

>>> those rats were fed AFLATOXIN.

Yes, and the researchers demonstrated that of these rats, the ones fed casein almost always developed cancer and died, while the rats fed other forms of protein did not. Casein itself DOES NOT cause cancer -- it ignites it into full-blown growth if you already have cancerous cells floating around in your body. So, it IS possible to consume casein and be okay, assuming you are generally cancer free to begin with.

As you get older, it's a foolish bet to take, though, since we ALL have some level of cancerous cells floating around in our body due to natural mutations. I'm not willing to take the risk that casein consumption might push some of those cells to take root and do real damage (which, btw, can be a very long-term effect, even decades, before the damage is noticeable).

Eat casein at your own risk -- it's like playing with fire.

Edited by dukenukem, 25 July 2005 - 09:16 PM.

#18 Paul Idol

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 06:32 PM

Inasmuch as cancer was essentially non-existant among the healthy natives Price studied, including those who consumed loads of dairy, I'm simply not going to worry about casein itself. I will worry about the form it comes in, though.

#19 johnmk

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 06:42 PM

That's really unfortunate. I won't completely avoid casein from now on but I will gradually minimize my use of it. My protein bar that I cut up into 1/3rds and take over the course of a day is comprised of the following proteins, presented in order as on the Ingredients declaration:

Calcium Caseinate, Soy Protein Isolate, Milk Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Isolate.

I'm guessing that they're using about approximately equal amounts of each, perhaps in slightly declining relative amounts though respectively.

I will seek out a new protein bar. These are so cheap though from Costco, 24 of them for about $19.99. It's hard to find protein bars containing 30 grams of protein per bar that are this cheap per bar. :-/

#20 DukeNukem

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 09:11 PM

John, it's very hard to find protein bars that do not use casein because it's a cheap-as-dirt protein. Plus, I can't imagine any good protein bar being sold at Costco's. I shop there and Sam's and often look at the bars they sell, and they are ALL full of junk ingredients that you really want to avoid.

My view on casein is that while you may get away with eating it (just as some smokers live into their 90's), I prefer to eliminate all possible risk factors. This is why I consider myself much more hardcore about health than most people, as I'm perfectly willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of the price or the effort.

#21 ajnast4r

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 04:01 AM

This is why I consider myself much more hardcore about health than most people, as I'm perfectly willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of the price or the effort.

[thumb] [thumb] [thumb]

#22 sentrysnipe

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:13 AM

The key things to look for are:
o Cold-processed (heat damages/denatures the protein)
o No sweetener added (except stevia)

The best whey I've seen but not yet tried (I have some ordered), is this:
http://www.mercola.c...y_healthier.htm

hey guys been lurking here for quite a while. dukenukem ive noticed you're into the real deal healthy stuff, ie organic and raw foods. ive also been wanting to purchase mercola's protein powder but just dont have enough money seriously.

i am eyeing on ON's 100% Natural Whey (vanilla) kindly take a look... http://www.bodybuild...pt/natwhey.html
72 servings for 34$. 23g protein per serving so it's a sweet deal although i guess it does not meet the "cold-processed" standard you mentioned too bad :-(

what do you think?

could you guys suggest of any cheaper whey protein powder which are at least natural and/or came from grassfed cows?? TIA!

#23 scottl

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 02:53 PM

You might check into www.proteincustomizer.com (e-mail him and ask) before spending silly amounts of money on whey.

If he doesn't have what you want, he can probably tell you where to get it.

Edit: fixed.

Edited by scottl, 03 September 2005 - 03:50 PM.

#24 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 03:07 PM

proteincustmizer.com doesn't work?

#25 nbourbaki

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 03:23 PM

proteincustmizer.com doesn't work?

It should be www.proteincustomizer.com

#26 lemon

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 04:48 PM

Yeah... I use 100% Whey Protein too. Although I don't particularly like the inclusion of "artificial flavors" and acesulfame potassium. It's cheap but I don't believe I will buy more once it runs out.

I personally don't even like anything sweetened that much (and when I do I use stevia). Hell, I can place any herb on my tongue and and eventually, through repeated doses, become accustomed to it.

I scoff at people that need to saturate their foods with artificial flavors and sweetners.