% of posters "rejuvenated" by supps.

Being that there is much discussion in the way of "feeling" great, or other non-scientific effects of supplemets, I was wondering how many posters here have verifiable documentation/tests that clearly demonstate a "rejuvenative" effect of the 5000$ a month supplement regimen they are on. I know a few like pete, lifemirage, and others do have bloodwork and other tests to back up their supps, but how many others do?

I mean very specific tests that clearly do not fit in with your age group, like VO2 max, CRP, homocystine, respiratory control ratio , and other significant biomarkers. For instance does anyone here who is let's say over 40 have a VO2 max of a teenager? or the blood pressure of a child like 105/55? If so, and that's a big "if" then I would wager to guess you are doing something right. I am just curious to see some really amazing stats because some of the monthly supplement regimens on this board are the GDP of africa.

I know we don't have any 50 year old women that would pass for 20, even with thousands in plastic surgery, but a small improvement in biomarkers is surely a good start. At least until "Total" rejuvenation occurs i.e. the real deal like seeing your grandmothers freinds and asking them out. [:o] [:o] Are we going to be ready for that as a society? age division is stronger than even racial division and most people are defined by their "age" , when we all look tha same age, how will homosapiens define who is better than everyone else? Maybe by merit [mellow] what we should've done the whole time.

Just saw this...not taking the time to really respond...but just as a side note...

My last checkup/CBC was a few weeks ago (I didn't get the exact numbers at the time)...

Went from slightly high blood pressure to 110/70.
Glucose was getting close to diabetic range -- dropped to normal.
Cholesterol numbers improved.

Also -- much much sharper at work. Ability to drink down new information is vastly improved. Motivation is way up. Slight social anxiety is gone. The fear of public speaking is non-existent...seems like a fun thing to do now.

Flying up subway stairs (NYC). Walking much faster than most people on the sidewalk (20-100 people). Using peripheral vision and seeing the path through a crowd.

Basically some mental and physical levels are "restored" to 5-10 years ago. My estimation.

I'm only 4 months into a focus shift from "disease prevention" to "performance enhancement" and as far as I'm concerned, so far so good. I suspect that things will be much improved in a year.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

I don't believe everyone is secretly watching/stalking/planning on murdering me.

I'd say supplements have increased my QOL immeasurably.

How's this...
The last couple of days I was hoping to fall asleep midday because life seemed like a vacuous regurgitorium set up to mock me at every thought. Today, I got back on track by taking all my vitamins and supplements and damn if I didn't at least escape those dreadful ruminations with zest for the last 9 hours.

Work for me. Railingly so. Shouldn't go a day without them. [thumb]

FYI: You can get pretty well doped for somewhere between $1500-2000 a year with the right suppliers. Build the right R-E-G-I-M-E-N and you too can laugh along -with- the world at yourself... and countless others.

Edited by liplex, 13 February 2006 - 11:13 PM.

I know a few like pete, lifemirage, and others do have bloodwork and other tests to back up their supps, but how many others do?

12/03/2005
Cholesterol, Total: 221 ref: <200mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol: 60 ref: >= 40mg/dL
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio: 3.7 ref: <5.0
Triglycerides: 73 ref: <150mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol: 146 ref: <130mg/dL

2/23/2006
Cholesterol, Total: 168
HDL Cholesterol: 68
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio: 2.5
Triglycerides: 65
LDL Cholesterol: 87

I don't know, do supplements work? You tell me

Your question indicates some large misconceptions about supps and their purposes (or at least the health promoting ones I work with).

"rejuvenative" effect [huh]

Edit: not that one can't treat cholesterol, CRP, etc but that is treating labs, inflammation, etc with supps

Funk,
I envy your low triglicerides (but not your HDL ).
BTW Panthetine works

Actually, I wasn't taking pantethine. Here's what I was doing during that period:

LEF Mix
LEF Super Booster
LEF EPA/DHA (6 daily)
50mg DHEA (DHEA-S on 12/03/2005 was 218 mcg/dL)
Ate oatmeal every morning for breakfast

None of those really jump out as something that would cut LDL cholesterol almost in half... unless you dig a little deeper. Remember my adrenal fatigue?

Hypercholesterolemia treatment: a new hypothesis or just an accident?

A new hypothesis concerning the association of low levels of steroid hormones and hypercholesterolemia is proposed. This study presents data that concurrent restoration to youthful levels of multiple normally found steroid hormones is able to normalize or improve serum total cholesterol (TC). We evaluated 20 patients with hypercholesterolemia who received hormonorestorative therapy (HT) with natural hormones. Hundred percent of patients responded. Mean serum TC was 263.5 mg/dL before and 187.9 mg/dL after treatment. Serum TC dropped below 200 mg/dL in 60.0%. No morbidity or mortality related to HT was observed. In patients characterized by hypercholesterolemia and sub-youthful serum steroidal hormones, our findings support the hypothesis that hypercholesterolemia is a compensatory mechanism for life-cycle related down-regulation of steroid hormones, and that broadband steroid hormone restoration is associated with a substantial drop in serum TC in many patients.

Med Hypotheses . 2002 Dec;59(6):751-6

50mg of DHEA a day boosted my DHEA-S from 218 to 414mcg/dL. Coincidence with the huge cholesterol drop? Not if you subscribe to the above theory that hypercholesterolemia is often the body attempting to compensate for suboptimal steroid hormone production.

Now I just got the results of a pregnenolone test... 25ng/dL. I believe that pitifully low value is directly linked to my adrenal fatigue. I'm starting 100mg pregnenolone daily, we'll see what that does. LEF claims 180ng/dL is optimal for a male.

Being that there is much discussion in the way of "feeling" great, or other non-scientific effects of supplemets, I was wondering how many posters here have verifiable documentation/tests that clearly demonstate a "rejuvenative" effect of the 5000$ a month supplement regimen they are on. I know a few like pete, lifemirage, and others do have bloodwork and other tests to back up their supps, but how many others do?

I mean very specific tests that clearly do not fit in with your age group, like VO2 max, CRP, homocystine, respiratory control ratio , and other significant biomarkers. For instance does anyone here who is let's say over 40 have a VO2 max of a teenager? or the blood pressure of a child like 105/55? If so, and that's a big "if" then I would wager to guess you are doing something right. I am just curious to see some really amazing stats because some of the monthly supplement regimens on this board are the GDP of africa.

I know we don't have any 50 year old women that would pass for 20, even with thousands in plastic surgery, but a small improvement in biomarkers is surely a good start. At least until "Total" rejuvenation occurs i.e. the real deal like seeing your grandmothers freinds and asking them out.  Are we going to be ready for that as a society? age division is stronger than even racial division and most people are defined by their "age" , when we all look tha same age, how will homosapiens define who is better than everyone else? Maybe by merit  what we should've done the whole time.

karomesis,

everything you say is brilliant.

Great, thnks everyone for providing their ages, it really helps, also isn't there is a relation also whith the area that you live at , altitude and weather?, how about getting a bit more detail oriented so as to get some usefull information??

KAROMESIS:[quote] age division is stronger than even racial division and most people are defined by their "age"

Your particular sub culture may set differences on regards to age, but really, you need to grow up

Three plus years ago when I really started to get serious about supplements, I was getting blood work done every six months, and all of the important health-markers (including PSA, CRP, oxidation, etc.) improved steadily, all the while I was adding, changing my supplement program, as well as improving my eating. My last HDL was 75, and my total was 177. My triglycerides I remember were 55.

My blood pressure is 105/70-ish, and I'm about to improve that (I hope) with the addition of xenobiotics. I'm really more interesting in the blood pressure delta/range, keeping the figure around 35. Anything over 50 is a far better predictor of a coming heart event than overall high blood pressure.

What oxidation markers are you able to measure, and what lab conducts the test? I'd like to see how my protandim-busting regimen of ashwagandha, bacopa, and green tea are performing.

Funk,
I envy your low triglicerides (but not your HDL ).
BTW Panthetine works

I tried 300mg x 2 (VitaminShoppe.com) for two months and saw no effect, despite positive reports in the literature. What brand, amount, and dosing are you using, and what numbers? My HDL has always been low, since my early 20's, as was my fathers. High 20's to low 30's. Am willing to give Pantethine another shot, but it's not cheap, so any specifics you can provide would help.

I wouldn't go anonymous on the raw material in pantethine. Look for Pantesin pantethine, its in Jarrow's formulation for example, great price over at iherb ($20 for 90 300mg gelcaps). Also, for straightening out blood lipids, 300mg has been used 3 or 4x daily in studies. Don't take it all in one shot... I also don't think you were dosing enough.

Also, have you tried (relatively) high dose niacin? Niacin is well known to raise HDL, increases of 30% are well within its power. Don't go too crazy though or you run the risk of liver toxicity. Its cheap and effective.

I've been reading some interesting review papers that address the issue of [the potential for?] "rejuvenation"...dealing with carbonyl group reactivity in the expected amino acid <=> reducing sugar reactions, within the context of the proteosome, but also within the larger context of any long lived molecule cabable of being covalently modified in a similar fashion.

The expected molecules (carnosine and carnosine-like peptides [His], N-t-BHA) come up wrt cellular senescence. Some in-vivo data. Note also, the recent papers on Acetyl-carnosine and reversal of lens AGEP.

There's also a reasonable chance to tie this in with CR ("the only known means of slowing the aging process....", yada, yada) via (arguably given the above, toxic AA's) protein restriciton (obvious), and reductions in insulin levels [mean], and so increasing (apparently, I hadn't heard, but will follow up) proteosomal turnover.

Antioxidants, per se, are harder to defend within the CR context, given recent papers on nitrious oxide signaling and ROS as a signal in CR gene expression changes. Taking them may actually interfere with CR, one could speculate.

However, supplements that improve proteosomal function may well be tied to the same process, or one of the processes, that CR influences.

Another interesting paper that came out in 2003, talks about CR and membrane biochemistry, which I won't comment on at the moment, wrt supplements, other than to say that to the degree what what we take, and what we do, to influence both these processes, the data is much more supportive than ever that one may be targeting processes that will ultimatley be seen to be tied to rejuvination.

As a footnote, the pharma industry is targeting rejuvination (ALT-711 and cross linking/BP...but this is a good surogate marker, really for aging, a la diabetes) and seeing clinical trial results that are promising.

So, rejuvination, at present, probably does mean cross link reversal *AND* stimulation of proteosomal turnover (which, note, carnosine has been shown to do).

More later.

Also, have started reading more about Histidine and more papers show impact on carnosine levels that suggest one might want to supplement small amounts of L-his. This in part because Carnosine's action may *not* be entirely exerted via the dipeptide form, but interconverting through a family of His-peptides. The lack of (I assume, but need to check) L-his effect on cellular senescence may be due to lack of enzymatic conversion into correct peptide forms in a particular cell culture experiment. Worth pursuing literature evidence.

Also, the type of tests one would want to conduct in this case, would be lens clarity, and skin AGEP content. indirect tests on the latter can be done with skin flexibility by the pinch test on the back of your hand.

Funk, I've had all my testing through Kronos Science Labs. I'm not sure how they determine oxidation, but I think it involves hemoglobin A1C, iron, homocysteine, and other stuff. They probably have info on their site.

I found it, they test for various DNA damage markers and oxidized proteins and fats. Pretty sweet.

http://www.kronoslab.../oxidative.aspx

Also, have you tried (relatively) high dose niacin? Niacin is well known to raise HDL, increases of 30% are well within its power. Don't go too crazy though or you run the risk of liver toxicity. Its cheap and effective.

Funk, thanks for the info, and yes, am weighing the relative risk-reward of one over the other, though not much data last I checked on mechanism for Pantethine. While the overt clinical problems associated with high dose niacin (liver toxicity) don't bother me too much, as lower doses have been shown to raise HDL (500-1500mg), relative to higher doses needed to lower LDL (ca. 3000), there's the the issue of high dose niacin and methyl donor group depletion (can't recall mechanism off hand) in catabolism of the niacin. For all I know the risk with pro-B5 is the same. I need to spend some time digging around.

As for pantethine dose and manufacturer, that's great to know. Will consider this should I make another attempt.

nice stats funk [thumb]

scott, I was under the impression that a reversal of decline is considered to be a "rejuvenative" effect. i.e. the fact that the decline in respiratory control ratio in rats was partially reversed with NtBHA.(which I take). As well as speeding up metabolism in vivo.

Your particular sub culture may set differences on regards to age, but really, you need to grow up

WTF [huh]


As for myself, I have not broken down yet and done it, but I will be utilizing kronos for the tests in the near future.

My basic stats are as follows
AGE:27
BMI:28.86
WEIGHT:206
RHR:47
BP:105/50
THEORETICAL MHR:193 ACTUAL MHR:227
CIRCULATING TESTOSTERONE: 860 mg/dl

My strength to weight ratio is also improved.( I gain strength but not weight) I partially attribute my heart stats to olympic lifting and using the stairmaster at level 20 with 110 lbs on my back, usually after that my HR is aroung 220BPM
[lol]

Edited by karomesis, 09 March 2006 - 09:42 PM.

KAROMESIS : Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem [wis]

KAROMESIS : Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem

This is twice now you've told members to "grow up", and then you write this. No one cares what you think, simple-minded. [thumb]

Here's another famous phrase (albiet not in latin) "If you don't have anything good to say, shut up about the fucking indium already."

simple, as I understand it you are reffering to the life extension community? when you mention a "subculture"

When I mention age division, I am talking about the populace as a whole, not life extensionists. Either you have been living under a large rock, or you have chosen to conviniently ignore the many examples of ageism so prevalent in our society. Please tell me why it is so vital to the spread of information that a persons age is mentioned almost always when discussions occur? Is it because the aged are wise? or the young foolish? I have met contradictions of both terms. I have no intention of having a flame war with you so please refrain from ad hominem attacks; either state your argument, present your evidence proving that I need to "grow up" or commit yourself to silence.

Speaking of homocysteine, it has some fairly good acceptance in the medical community as a cardiovascular risk index. Anyone here had their levels checked?

Mine was 4.8umol/L before I ramped up my supplement regimen, I'll let you know the results when I retest.

Mine is always been good. I test it yearly.

Speaking of rejuvination and homo-cystine, B6, while it appears to be associated with reductions in homocystine, may be for the first time (..no, later posts 3/11/06) found to inhibit glycation? I was aware of Pyridoxamine, but had thought Pryidoxine was without effect. The reference below shows as having a free PDF, so perhaps you folks have access. I just printed it: 39 pages (!) -- kids, don't try this at home.

So, how much, if true? I'd been concerned about taking too much due to peripheral neurotoxicity, but this paper makes me want to review the safety of higher doses.

Again, all this in the context of what constitutes, and how close are we (measurably) to rejuvination, per above emails.

For the record, I haven't done any testing of the sort you folks have, yet, but will inform once done. Best, T-

-------------
J Lipid Res. 2006 Feb 9; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


Aminophospholipid glycation and its inhibitor screening system: A new role of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate and pyridoxal as lipid glycation inhibitor.

Higuchi O, Nakagawa K, Tsuzuki T, Suzuki T, Oikawa S, Miyazawa T.

Peroxidized phospolipid-mediated cytotoxity involves in the pathophysiology of diseases (i.e., an abnormal increase of phosphatidylcholine hydroperoxide, PCOOH, found in plasma of type 2 diabetic patients). The PCOOH accumulation may relate to Amadori-glycated phosphatidylethanolamine (deoxy-D-fructosyl PE, namely Amadori-PE), since Amadori-PE causes oxidative stress. However, lipid glycation inhibitor has not been discovered yet due to lack of a lipid glycation model study useful for inhibitor screening. Consequently, we optimized and developed a lipid glycation model considering various reaction conditions (glucose concentration, temperature, buffer type and pH) between phosphatidylethanolamine (PE) and glucose. Using the developed model, various protein glycation inhibitors (aminoguanidine, pyridoxamine, aspirin and carnosine), antioxidants (ascorbic acid, alpha-tocopherol, quercetin and rutin) and other food compounds (L-lysine, L-cysteine, pyridoxine, pyridoxal and pyridoxal 5'-phosphate) were evaluated for their anti-glycative property. As results, pyridoxal 5'-phosphate and pyridoxal (vitamin B(6) derivatives) were the most effective anti-glycative compounds. These pyridoxals could easily be condensed with PE before glucose/PE reaction occurred. Since we found that PE-pyridoxal 5'-phosphate adduct was detectable in human red blood cells and that elevated plasma Amadori-PE concentration in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats was decreased by dietary supplementation of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate, it is likely that pyridoxal 5'-phosphate acts as lipid glycation inhibitor in vivo, which possibly contributes to diabetes prevention.

PMID: 16470027 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Edited by trh001, 11 March 2006 - 07:10 PM.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

Also, commensurate with all of the above re. the "proteosome", I've been taking:

L-Carnosine (one large dose in AM (750mg), smaller dose in PM (250mg) as part of MEO by LEF)

L-Histidine: 500mg x 4, for now. May alternate between high and low dosing if literature supports stimulation of proteosomal activity with high doses.

N-t-BHA: ca. 30mg x 2
PyridoxAMINE (source specs showed nearly free of any immpurity 99%+ ...no longer available OTC) ca. 25mg x2

P5P: 25-50mg x4, depending on literature search.

Benfotiamine 150mg x4
Thiamine 50mg as part of MEO from LEF

Edited by trh001, 11 March 2006 - 07:16 PM.