<Reason> good evening
<Reason> anyone home? I'm not seeing any talking...
<Th3Hegem0n> Heh.
<FutureQ> hi
<Th3Hegem0n> How yall doin tonight.
<Reason> Bruce mentioned he'd be late, I believe, but in the meanwhile if anyone has anything they'd like to ask me, go right ahead
<FutureQ> Doin ok
<FutureQ> I do
<Th3Hegem0n> *goes to your website*
<FutureQ> Are you still into goth? And why for goodness sake?
<Reason>
http://www.longevitymeme.org<Reason> and
<Reason>
http://www.fightaging.org<Reason> heh
<Reason> goth is more a state of being than something you're in to
<FutureQ> I might have goth all wrong but to me it looks like a celebration of death
<Reason> more in the way of a reminder
<Th3Hegem0n> I always figured it was a teenage trendy thing
<FutureQ> sort of live now for death is always near?
<Reason> we are all very clever at not thinking about the inevitable - meaning it's hard to get people to act
<Reason> but goth has very little to do with clothing, death, books, or anything else; those are just proximate interests that get sucked in
<Reason> but I don't think I have time to dissect that particular subculture in a satisfactory way here
<Th3Hegem0n> <Th3Hegem0n> Is it just me, or does there seem to be a lot more nano breakthroughs in the past week or so?
<FutureQ> now I'm more confused. I thought goths were big into looking dead in the manner of white faces bkack lips and mortuary cothe
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<FutureQ> clothes
<Reason> I haven't been keeping track of the nano stuff so much, but there's been a lot of stem cell things going on
<Reason> I think it's the funding cycle - we're just hitting a result wave at this time of year
<John_Ventureville> Nanogirl is the one to talk to for the latest about any up to the minute nanotech news
<FutureQ> How goes the fight against the luddites trying to poo poo molecular nano manufacturing?
<Th3Hegem0n> Didn't they figure out how to get nerve cells out of adult bone stem cells?
<Reason> [for goth answers, I suggest wading through here:
http://www.gothicmissmanners.com/ - she has a fairly sensible viewpoint on what it all means and how the visible symptoms are really quite ancillary]
<Reason> the stem cell stuff is interestingly confused right now:
<Reason>
http://www.fightagin...ives/000107.php<Reason> we're seeing a lot of symptoms that we don't understand enough about these things, but understanding is being gathered at a rapid rate
<Reason> my guess is that there are a couple of unknown mechanisms going on, and that different stem cells from different parts of the body are limited in different ways
<Reason> I very happy with progress in science, as I have been
<Th3Hegem0n> I guess it's row versus wade, and it's my right to choose! (a little simpsons input
)
<Reason> the problem is, as always, politics and people who feel they have the right to determine how long you live
<Reason> I've been noting more of a resurgence in the meme of government-enforced maximum limits to life span of late
<FutureQ> Won't genomics and proteomics eventually trump adult vs embryonic stem cell debate? I mean nce you know the gens can't you masnipulate to make whichever kind you want?
<Reason>
http://www.longevity...cfm?news_id=928<Reason> FutureQ - yes, probably
<Reason> but the timespan is uncertain
<Reason> and it won't happen if scientists are forbidden from studying
<FutureQ> thast's forsure, in the US and wherever they fear the US
<Reason> I'm very concerned about the UN ban
<Reason> if Bush stays in power, then that may happen
<Reason> which would be disasterous
<John_Ventureville> do you think a UN ban could really happen?
<FutureQ> funny how the Muslim naitons stopped it temporarily
<Reason> John - it came very close to happening last time
<FutureQ> We just need to vote the usuroer out of the WH and all will be ok
<FutureQ> usurper
<Reason>
http://www.longevity...cloning_ban.cfm<Th3Hegem0n> Ah, bbl (mother's day...)
<FutureQ> l8r
<Reason> on politics, I think we're at a real problem point. I'm libertarian as you all know, and I see that we're still going to have problems even if pro-stem cell research people are in government
<John_Ventureville> I see China as an example of a nation simply not willing to restrain their researchers because of the vast potential possible to the future superpower
<Reason> And France and Germany are examples of where nations go when their states get too large
<Reason> when was the last time you heard of a medical advance coming out of either place?
<Jonesey> HIV virus was identified in france
<Reason> it's reassuring that the Asian countries are moving ahead with regenerative medicine, however
<Reason> I don't recall where HIV was identified - too long ago
<FutureQ> It was france
<John_Ventureville> China could have state of the art biotech clinics which would be frequently visited by the American and European wealthy who seek genetic therapy while on "vacation"
<Reason> my theme with all of this is that it is not enough to just report on these advances - we must take an active part in ensuring that they come about
<Reason> you must be the change you want to see in the world, as Gandhi said
<John_Ventureville> and there is that part of us which inwardly screams "in my lifetime!" because we don't want to die a few decades before the advances eventually happen somewhere
<Reason> I feel that many transhumanists are very complacent about the future
<Reason> John - very much so
<Reason> my altruism is definitely a side effect of my selfish desires - the root of beneficial free market action right there
<Jonesey> a lot of "american" medicine nobelists come from germany and did their formative research there, but went to the US for more money.
<John_Ventureville> among cryonicists I see many who have the attitude "if I can only live long enough things will be just fine" rather than the activist approach which you advocate
<Jonesey> will be interesting to see if this trend continues, american publications are plunging as a percentage of global scientific publications.
<Reason> Jonesey - very true. I came to the US to practice my branch of science back when because the opportunites were here, not in the UK
<Reason> even the past decade, I've seen the US become much more like Europe
<Jonesey> when I left grad school at caltech, 80% of grad students were foreign born.
<Reason> substitute Brussels for Washington - much the ame
<Jonesey> Interesting, I've seen europe become much more like the US
<Jonesey> It's really hard to find a british movie in London, I walk around and find TGIF's, McDonalds etc everywhere.
<John_Ventureville> in what ways?
<Reason> John - cryonicists are also far too complacent; they need a stronger industry, larger base, more spin offs, etc, etc -- and they need to get up and support it
<John_Ventureville> Hollywood has suffocated the film industries of many other nations
<John_Ventureville> very sad
<Jonesey> malls everywhere in spain, which definitely was not the case 10 plus yrs ago
<Reason> I was thinking the similarities are in social policy
<Reason> the US has grown much more interventionist
<Reason> goverment spending has doubled in the last 10 years
<Jonesey> in the past decade the US has moved towards increasing inequality with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
<FutureQ> It will continue if the current admin keeps the wH. They're chasing all the scientists obroad, cherry picking scince to meet ideology rather than truth and not sprring an interest in youth to join science and tech schoolastically.
<Reason> and it's choking growth and innovation
<Jonesey> that definitely isn't like europe.
<Reason> FQ - it will continue whoever is in the whitehouse
<Jonesey> the US is spending a lot but it's heavily on defense, and the old
<Jonesey> not on the poor as in europe
<Reason> Jonesey - 50% of all government spending in the US is simple wealth transfer from rich to poor
<Jonesey> bullshit.
<Jonesey> No, allow me to capitalize that. BULLSHIT.
<Reason> I'll dig up the figures for you
<Jonesey> Go for it.
<John_Ventureville> in some ways I feel that Hollywood/pop culture book publishers/computer game makers are providing so many time wasting temptations that we are losing and will continue to lose so much human capital (as in young people who don't go into science or an advanced degree because it is "too much work")
<FutureQ> Why so R, don't you see a difference between the dems and the reps as far as the current mad bunch?
<Reason> no, dems and reps are the same
<FutureQ> There's an awful lort of rich corporate wellfare as in tax incentives ect.
<Reason> where it counts - it's just which rich people benefit from wealth redirection that counts
<John_Ventureville> some differences but largely still in bed with the same folks
<Jonesey> I don't have my copy of Pete Peterson's "Facing Up" but it's an excellent analysis of the budget breakdown though a bit out of date in that spending has shifted since then away from spending on the poor and more towards spending on defense and the old.
<Jonesey> You're not making sense Reason.
<John_Ventureville> *this is beginning to feel like the extrolist!*
<Jonesey> You said half of gov't spending was taking money from the rich and sending it to the poor, but now you're saying that "where it counts" the wealth redirection is toward the rich. Make up your mind?
<Reason> here we go:
http://www.mises.org...sp?control=1477<Jonesey> social security and medicare are not means tested.
<Jonesey> They direct money mostly to old people, not poor people.
<Reason> Jonesey - wealth redistribution is managed; the people managing it do very well by it
<Jonesey> THis analysis is bullshit.
<John_Ventureville> the rich can always benefit financially by being there to help *redistribute" the wealth
<Jonesey> To the extent it claims that poor people are benefitting from all of this money, it is just nonsense.
<Reason> meh - this is why I don't like talking politics; people are not prepared to be reasonable about it
<Reason> so - back to medicine please
<Jonesey> You're the unreasonable one, stating flat falsehoods.
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<John_Ventureville> this should be settled in an ImmInst forum so both of you have more room and time to think things through
<Jonesey> "Reasonable" means accepting your nonsense?
<Jonesey> Heh John_Ventureville
<John_Ventureville> I really think so
<Reason> reasonable means being civil
<Reason> so - back to medicine
<John_Ventureville> time to get back on topic
<John_Ventureville> *whew!*
<John_Ventureville> : )
<Jonesey> I'm being very civil relative to what I shoudl be saying about this popular fiction you're spouting.
<Jonesey> medicare and SS are not means-tested.
<Jonesey> They do not go to the poor.
<John_Ventureville> hey, I'm going to now argue gun control!
<John_Ventureville> any takers?
<Reason> oh boy
<Jonesey> the poor have short life expectancies and in fact these programs have a nifty actuarial effect of shipping money from the short lived to the long-lived.
<Jonesey> hehehehe
<slander> 'europe' isn't throwing money at the poor either
<Jonesey> how about RPG control in iraq
<slander> unemployment benefit in spain is linked to past earnings
<Jonesey> Gun nuts seem extremely uncomfy with the iraqis blasting american troops with bazookas
<John_Ventureville> Of course!
<Jonesey> the same citizen firepower that guarantees liberty here seems to be guaranteeing "terror" over there.
<John_Ventureville> Only God-fearing Americans and their allies were mean to have guns and kill people!
<John_Ventureville> : )
<FutureQ> Well, I'm poor and on Medicare and Medicaid and I'm not evry well off fro it and every time I look something new is being denied me. Just recently they were going to cut what they paid my parents to care foir me to an arbitrary 96 hours a month simply for being relatd to me. It made no sense and quickly got reveresed but they still cut pauying for my hosue workl, clothing washed, meals prepared etc. as if I was married to them and shou
<Reason> I think that, like various talking heads at SAGE Crossroads, we should agree that regardless of positions on politics and particular scientific positions, more effort needs to be directed to research and public education
<Reason> without that, we'd don't get "in our lifetime" advances irrespective of the rest of it
<Jonesey> reason:why, if the "market" isn't demanding it?
<Jonesey> as a libertarian you should be happy right?
<John_Ventureville> LOL
<Reason> persuasion is compatible with libertarianism
<slander> that's a great quote
<Reason> when I say more needs to be directed, I'm making a persuasive argument - freedom of choice and all
<Jonesey> well the market approach would be to identify a great unmet need and start a business
<Reason> for example, I don't support the California stem cell initiative personally - for all the normal reasons - but I advocate that people who are comfortable with california governance, spending and legislation should - it's their choice to support or not support such a system
<John_Ventureville> which is what Saul Kent and Bill Faloon did when they started LEF to ultimately support cryonics research
<Jonesey> interesting, nancy reagan just spoke out for embryonic stem cell research
<Reason> that's one market approach - another is to talk a bunch of people into doing it for you
<Jonesey> upsetting her right wing running buddies no end
<Reason> she has been for a while, apparently, just on the quiet
<John_Ventureville> *see what disease can do to change views*
<Reason> yes indeed, John
<Jonesey> tough time for her to do that, bush & co are fighting to go the other way
<Reason> it's a somewhat sad part of the human condition that we're hard to get on board until we're stung
<tomo> i think we should irradiate various politicians in hopes of them developing cancers
<FutureQ> about timer It seems when it's you dying or your loved one, then precious held if[=deologies go by the wayside.
<Jonesey> now now tomo
<tomo> =P
<John_Ventureville> what are the odds of Bush being re-elected?
<Reason> if you don't believe in an afterlife, then pragmatism is the highest cause
<Reason> damned if I know - it's like reading tea leaves
<FutureQ> unfortunately too good John
<tomo> John_Ventureville: too high
<John_Ventureville> the old saying goes "during wartime Americans don't like to switch horses."
<Jonesey> well this is one nation under god, pardner
<Reason> but I'll go with "too high"
<John_Ventureville> FuturQ, tell everyone about the "dominion plot" of the evangelicals to remold this nation into their own image.
<John_Ventureville> *interesting stuff*
<Reason> are you lot planning on getting out and supporting the democrats, volunteer work and all that?
<FutureQ> I'm hoping Kerry kils him in the debates, afterall bjsh don speak english
<FutureQ> I'll get the url
<Reason> actually, come to think of it, the California november stem cell ballot is probably going to have a very interesting effect on this election
<Reason> the timing is very good for making this all hinge on stem cell policies
<John_Ventureville> I think Bush winning this time around will come down to two things 1. Americans think he is less likely to raise taxes (this is the crucial thing) 2. He is seen as a "true and tough" president (though mentally dim) who will do us right in Iraq by showing we are not spineless cowards, even if many lives are taken on both sides in the bargain.
<FutureQ> Dominonist plot by Pat Roberton, karl Rove etc.
http://www.yuricarep...ngOfAmerica.htm<Reason> but you know, ultimately, 99% of everyone working for the government are still the same people the day after - very little tends to change from a high level, longer term perspective.
<FutureQ>
http://www.yuricarep...ngOfAmerica.htm<Jonesey> look at bush's core demographics. white evangelicals, white southerners, and northern white men who did not go to graduate school. see a pattern here?
<FutureQ> Bush on science --
http://physicstoday..../iss-4/p30.html*** Joins: ct (ct@c-67-171-36-123.client.comcast.net)
<Jonesey> unfortunately this means his support is rock solid and not likely to be dented unless a party appears to the right of the republicans with a serious chance of winning.
<slander>
http://monbiot.com/d...?article_id=649<Jonesey> where else are these groups going to go?
<FutureQ> A worisome law they're trying to pass --,
http://www.smirkingc...t.php?sid=15321<Reason> have you been reading Chris Mooney's blog of late? He's coming down very heavily on politicized science
<Reason>
http://www.chriscmooney.com/blog.asp<John_Ventureville> the democrats are like a football team which make it to the playoffs and then always fumble the damn ball to lose the championship because the star player (Clinton) has retired!
<Reason> so here's the question: you people all want to see a change, so what are you doing about it?
<Jonesey> dem supporters are much more lukewarm about the dems than the right wingers are about making sure the dems don't win. if dem supporters turned out to vote anywhere near the rate of right wingers the gop would get crushed every time.
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<Jonesey> right wing base is too limited.
<John_Ventureville> I'll be trying to help create a cryonics community over the next several years
<Reason> how is that going down there? it seems like a good time for expanding cryonics
<Reason> you're in the press, new tech being worked on, Saul deciding to put more money in, etc
<FutureQ> vfoting, talking to people, giving money to the dems
<John_Ventureville> in the next 2-3 years we plan to get started on it
<Reason> My thoughts on cryonics:
http://www.longevity...cs/cryonics.cfm<Reason> in short, it's an ethical responsibility and a safety net
<John_Ventureville> outside financing will not be necessary (as in support from fellow lunkheaded cryonicists!)
<Reason> heh
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Jonesey> where are things in the AZ legislative fiasco?
<Reason> yes, that's gone all quiet - I'm hoping that's a good sign
<John_Ventureville> it looks like Stump is just biding his time and will down the road introduce another bill to hammer Alcor
<tomo> i agree, the immortalist/anti-aging community needs to become a more activist movement
<Reason> do we know who is behind Stump, or is he just bull-headed?
<tomo> and active in everyday politics
<Jonesey> immortalism is very threatening to people who feel they already have the path to immortality via christianity
<John_Ventureville> Stump is an interesting guy
<Reason> but yes, tomo - we need to make things happen
<John_Ventureville> a Harvard grad mentored by George F. Will
<FutureQ> If I had money I'd become more than justg activist, I'd get militn=ant
<Jonesey> saw some footage where bush derided psychologists working with emotionally disturbed children, and held up a bible, "this is the only handbook these kids need"
<John_Ventureville> and his family owns a chain of mortuaries
<John_Ventureville> *very interesting!*
<Jonesey> very common mindset out there.
<Reason> talking is always better than the alternative FutureQ...
<John_Ventureville> talking followed by RAISING HELL!!
<John_Ventureville> right, James?
<Jonesey> hehehe
<John_Ventureville> : )
<FutureQ> yup
<Reason> incorrigable, you lot
<John_Ventureville> we are.....
<FutureQ> eliminating opposition through almost over the line means
<Reason> but there certainly seems to be the will to get things done - organization and getting people to work on it is the hard part
<Reason> accomplishment of any sort is something akin to knocking down an endless series of brick walls with your head, I guess
<John_Ventureville> FuturQ, my employer is a machiavillian master at "eliminating opposition through almost over the line means."
<John_Ventureville> the cryonics movement is fortunate to have him on their side
<Reason> he's always been nice to me - I guess that's the private side I don't get to see
<John_Ventureville> just don't get in his way!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<FutureQ> hey if I had money I';d hire minions that would seek blackmail dirt on assholes like Leo K and such, being s=circumspect here.
<Jonesey> heh futureq
<Reason> how many people here publish websites or blogs?
<John_Ventureville> nope
<John_Ventureville> maybe I should
<Reason> FutureQ - we don't need dirt on Kass; the man openly supports mass murder through legislative control of medical research. I don't think there's much anyone can add to that.
<John_Ventureville> I have played with the idea
<FutureQ> I have a website but it's not in my hands of yet. Haven't had the enrgy to do more to it.
<Reason> blogs are easy these days (and cheap)
<Jonesey> what does kass have to say about bush's perspective on science, e.g. "the jury is out on evolution"...?
<Reason> it's just a matter of finding 20 minutes a day to post
<Reason> oh, I saw a great Kass article the other day - hold on:
<John_Ventureville> I guess a part of me is disturbed at the idea of having a journal where the whole world could theoretically look at it if they wanted to
<FutureQ> Oh if we could fgind a hipcritical chinche in his armor we could get him gone
<John_Ventureville> Kass might not have any real skeletons in his closet
<John_Ventureville> not everyone does
<FutureQ> like an unwed bastard child birth or an abortion paid for a lover
<John_Ventureville> hey, if they found dirt on Dr. Laura, who is safe?
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Reason>
http://michnews.com/...icle_3544.shtml<FutureQ> make em up the roightwingers do to demns all the time
<Reason> John - not a journal, more of a comments page; just a way to publish what you *want* the whole world to read
<John_Ventureville> ok
<Reason> look at what I do with
http://www.fightaging.org<Reason> it's basically me stepping up to the keyboard once a day to tell people they should do more to support longer, healthier lives
<ct> Reason, what one goal would you like to achieve within the next twelve months?
<Reason> only one?
<ct> Yes.
<Reason> arg
<Reason> that's tough - I have so many
<ct> One.
<Reason> cruel and unusual - give me a moment to think about that
<FutureQ> dump bush
<Reason> I think that the most important goal that can be accomplished is to get the Methuselah Mouse prize to the next level (of traffic, press, cash, attention)
<Reason> or rather, that wuold be most important goal that I *can* reasonably accomplish in the next 12 months
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<Jonesey> agree reason
<Jonesey> MM is huge
<ct> Which of the four?
<John_Ventureville> grrr. I lost my connection!
<Reason> not that I'd be doing it alone
<John_Ventureville> what is MM?
<Reason> ct: the four all go together; can't accomplish any one of them alone
<BJKlein> sorry late
<Jonesey> heh futureq dump bush is a good idea as well, he has brought us a tad closer to global armageddon, joining his fellow religious fanatics on the islamic side.
<John_Ventureville> BJ, good to see ya'
<FutureQ> yeah, he's not alone
<Reason> welcome aboard BJ
<ct> Prioritize the four, please.
<BJKlein> thanks!
<John_Ventureville> a pretty dang energetic group tonight!
<Reason> hmm. Well cash is the highest, since if we had cash and none of the other three, then the other three could be obtained by waving the cash around
<Jonesey> the funding necessary for MM is miniscule compared to what is being spend right now in iraq
<ct> Thank you.
<Reason> very true - you can cure a major disease these days for the cost of a stealth bomber
<John_Ventureville> methusalah mouse = MM?
<Reason> yes, methuselah mouse = MM
<Reason> ct: does this mean you'll be visiting
http://www.methusela....org/donate.php right now?
<ct> It was a thought.
<Reason> in many ways, at this stage, the number of donors is as important as the amount
<Reason> it's bait for the wealthy philanthropists
<BJKlein> Reason, how do you feel toward smarter-than-human tech potential
<Reason> although the Three Hundred initiative is very important too - and I encourage you all to look at it with an eye to joining
<Reason>
http://www.methusela...hreeHundred.htm<WaltDisney> hi reason
<BJKlein> in terms of perhaps part of our focus may be good to look there...
<Reason> smarter than human tech: I'm not as convinced as many folks here that it's going to be a factor soon
<Jonesey> i saw a right wing talking head describe the latest 25 billion iraq bill as "miniscule", and I was comparing that to what would be needed for MM etc.
<WaltDisney> The Methuselah project is not pursuing nanomachine reasearch, this is my main critic to them
<Reason> it's a worthwhile thing to be working on, but it isn't as "first things first" as regenerative medicine - and that's still a big fight
<Jonesey> nano is so long term tho
<WaltDisney> it is not, you dont read about news in nanotech, already nanomachine exist
<Reason> the mouse project isn't making any judgements on what technology is appropriate Walt
<Reason> it's just a way of getting money to encourage research - scientists use whatever they think is going to work
<WaltDisney> It`s only a matter of time before biogerontogist start to use nanotech
<BJKlein> Reason, but would you agree that when smarter-than-human eventually comes.. it will speed our work to kill aging?
<Reason> my guess is 20 years Walt for that
<Reason> for nanomachines, anyway
<Reason> nanotech - nanoscale manufacture - is already being used for diagnostics
<John_Ventureville> I am surprised that Gates, Ellison and the other tech billionaires out there don't pour vast amounts of money into anti-aging research
<Th3Hegem0n> Agreed John...
<WaltDisney> Ellison put alot of money in aging
<John_Ventureville> you would think Sperling just one among many
<BJKlein> John_Ventureville, they are pressed by culture.. deathist culture
<Reason> nanomedicine timing:
http://www.fightagin...ives/000078.php<WaltDisney> Ellison Medical Foundation
<FutureQ> Elison is said to
<Reason> BJK - yes, superhuman intelligences will speed things up, but I don't see that being a factor much before 2040
<John_Ventureville> but I read Ellison has been persuaded to change the focus of the research from stuff we would like to more "acceptable" and less rewarding research
<WaltDisney> Also alot of money is spent on aging but not alot on cryobiology which would do the same jobs and is far less complicated
<Reason> as a general rule, the more money you have, the more conservative you are about spending it
<Reason> and the conservative mass of science advances more slowly than the outflung scouts
<Th3Hegem0n> I think the best campaign would be directed toward the SL0 masses
<WaltDisney> We should focus on cryobiology first because it`s faster and not complex and then shoot into aging
<Reason> Walt - we can do it all at once; there's plenty of resources
<Th3Hegem0n> Show them a vision of curing world hunger, disease, making their lives better specifically
<WaltDisney> We need to focus
<Reason> it's just a matter of gaining public support
<WaltDisney> Reason are you a member of Alcor or CI or TransTime ?
<Th3Hegem0n> Think of how many millions of Americans have family who is affected by heart disease, alzeimers, etc
<Th3Hegem0n> (cancer too of course)
<Reason> you see, the amount of funding that goes into any field is, at the largest scale, determined by public support and understanding: partially market signals, partially politics, but it all comes down to that support
<WaltDisney> Afected or not, we don`t care, if time is with us
<Th3Hegem0n> Right, reason.
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<Reason> Walt: no, but that's more a consequence of being a poor entrepreneur for much of the past decade than choice. I'll be signing up for Alcor within the next few years, I think.
<WaltDisney> We can die and get a perfect cryopreservation, I dont care if I die from cancer or whatever
<John_Ventureville> a seed money fund of about 100 million (properly spent) could get a fundraising campaign going
<Th3Hegem0n> We need a focused, level-headed campaign aimed at normal people
<WaltDisney> Reason, I pay 30$CAN per month to get 100 000$CAN for CI that`s cheap
<BJKlein> thanks, reason for the misspelling help
<Reason> np bruce
<Reason> Walt - I know - sad to admit that I've been haggling over such sums for a while now.
<WaltDisney> There is only 2 company focusing on cryo organ, that`s lame
<Reason> there does need to be more cryo research and spin off technologies in order for that industry to prosper
<WaltDisney> Reason you told me you spent 300$US on advertising, stop that and get a good life insurance boomer
<Reason> lol
<WaltDisney> lol
<Reason> yes - I need to sort it out now that I'm no longer dirt poor
<WaltDisney> brb
<WaltDisney> take transamerica they are cool
<WaltDisney> ben best told me so so I did
<John_Ventureville> Reason, you don't want to be taken by surprise when you come down with a disease which makes you uninsurable
<FutureQ> yeah look at my situation
<John_Ventureville> I'm with John Hancock
<John_Ventureville> *solid*
<Th3Hegem0n> *happy to be young
*
<Reason> there seems to be a thead here of "how do we accomplish our education goals"
<FutureQ> I'm with Cryo Frinds Trsut
<Reason> how do we get the rest of society on our page, or at least enough of them to make a difference
<WaltDisney> also I will have a tatoo for funeral director, for freeze my head in hospital, and no autopsye written
<WaltDisney> example:
http://www.nanoaging...article&sid=116<FutureQ> Movie!!
<Reason> I liked the documentary idea
<WaltDisney> and I will have a deanimation alarm system which is also a must
<WaltDisney> yeah education !
<WaltDisney> we should get a law against buried and cremated !
<John_Ventureville> in Ventureville we hope to have everyone wear a deanimation alarm
<FutureQ> We need a transhumanist blockbuster
<Reason> I think we have a community in which there is a tremendous amount of enthusiasm, but precious little organization - speaking of the wider community, here
<Reason> there are some things that it just takes 100 people to get done
<Reason> or 1000, or 10,000
<WaltDisney> we should try to convince the president of USA to get cryonized
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<WaltDisney> that would be neat
<WaltDisney>
<Reason> everyone agrees that we need to do better, but finding the way forward is tough
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<WaltDisney> so will you take Alcor or CI ?
<FutureQ> i lsot connec t
<John_Ventureville> despite the organizing efforts of the extropian institute and others, a grassroots immortalist movement has yet to really take off
<Reason> this here at Immist pretty much *is* the grassroots immortalist movement
<John_Ventureville> we need to learn from groups like the environmentalists
<WaltDisney> Personally I tell to people their parents are stupid because they will get buried or cremated
<John_Ventureville> they know how to organize!
<Reason> organize and recruit
<WaltDisney> Greenpeace is against cryonics
<FutureQ> I was saying, and it might have gotten lsot, that Rudy knows a movie producer that is signing up for cryo ins.
<Th3Hegem0n1> I think the word immortal is too much for the average person to handle
<FutureQ> And so all we need is a good scropt
<Th3Hegem0n1> especially those that are religious
<Reason> FutureQ - that is good, especially if we can turn out something with the same sort of look and feel & desired impact as the Imminst book
<Jonesey> the religious people have big probs with everything pretty much that doesnt' fit their particular superstition.
<FutureQ> I have a seed idea
<John_Ventureville> ?
<Reason> Jonesey - but few of them stick to their princples in the face of suffering, fortunately
<FutureQ> It involves a time amchine and a near lightspeed ship
<Reason> personal suffering, that is
<Reason> I was thinking documentary, actually
<Reason> fiction is too easily manipulated
<FutureQ> The one is ala that blkack physicists idea for time trasvel
<Th3Hegem0n1> I think terming it life extension rather than immortality would be more acceptable to the average person
<FutureQ> the other takes a team into the future to see how it is progressing anmd back to thier time via the bent light time machine
<Reason> much as I hate to bring up Raelians, you recall the documentary they did? That sort of tone and way of showing people around the ideas, except for a reputable group this time round
<Jonesey> reason I'm not sure about that at all. as religious folx get more political power we'll see if that is really true.
<Reason> but anyway - bottom line is that efforts like the Imminst book are a good thing; a step in the right direction
<WaltDisney> Nanomedicine book are huge work too
<Reason> Robert Freitas is a great guy
<WaltDisney> When I first discovered aging I told in me that it would take alot of time, now I see in myself it is sooner I tof
<Reason> did you notice that the anti-nanotech people are starting to attack nanomedicine too now?
<BJKlein> ya, the Book should be a nice point of reference...
<Th3Hegem0n1> Have links to anti-nano ppl?
<WaltDisney> I didnot know that
<Reason>
http://www.fightagin...ives/000109.php<FutureQ> My first edition nanomed book is sign neener neener
<Reason> Glenn Reynolds has been covering the dry nanotech arguments and stupidity by the NNI and NA
<John_Ventureville> "The First Immortal" was at one time going to be produced by Hallmark films but the novel's author told me the whole project fell through
<WaltDisney> There is a new nanomedicine institute too, did you know with NIH
<Reason> I keep meaning to contact Halperin and somehow never happens...
<Reason> you have a URL for the NIH thing?
<John_Ventureville> he's a great guy
<WaltDisney>
http://www.nanoaging...ocument_id=7809<Reason> he lives in a really nice area near Austin, as I recall
<John_Ventureville> it looks like "The Truth Machine" may make it onto the silver screen before "The First Immortal" ever does
<BJKlein> Halperin has donated 100 TFI to ImmInst
<John_Ventureville> A Harvard grad with a very successful coin trading company
<FutureQ> Hzalperin? Greta guy? Yes, he is, gave a bunch to my suspension fund.
<WaltDisney> Unfortunately they dont plan to read the nanomedicine book from Robert for this institute
<Reason> yes, I know people who know him through the coin business
<Reason> "U.S. LAUNCHES NANOMEDICINE INITIATIVE, ASKS FOR BRIGHT IDEAS" - am I the only one who finds this funny?
<WaltDisney> FutureQ, are you James ?
<BJKlein> I'm having visions about a documtary for the ImmInst book...
<John_Ventureville> BJ, but he ONLY donated ten copies to the Society for Venturism!!@@#!!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<BJKlein> heh
<BJKlein> I'm about to hit him up for more soon
<FutureQ> yes
<FutureQ> I am James
<BJKlein> as we close in on 100 members
<BJKlein> full members
<WaltDisney> You were unable to get life insurrance because of your diabete ?
<Reason> how do people here feel about Immint's progress? Are we doing ok? How can we do better?
<FutureQ> because of that and my paralysis and my bone disease3, the worst case of it in the world and having only one kidney.
<BJKlein> please see:
http://www.imminst.org/fullmembers/<BJKlein> for a feel of progress.. graph at bottom
<WaltDisney> FutureQ I didnot take Alcor because they won`t be fast enough to cool down my body, I took CI, it`s better
<Reason> there's a certain gratitude one can express for being able to comparison show for cryosuspension...
<Reason> *shop
<BJKlein> you can see my mom and dad.. 'treemike'
<WaltDisney> Reason does your parents want to be frozen
<FutureQ> Speed of cooldown sort of depoends mor on weho is enar you when you go then the org you are with but good to have you aboard WD.
<WaltDisney> If we see a president cryopreserved one day, most people will say it is because he is rich
<Reason> if you read the alcor bulletins, the procedure is very variable depending on circumstacnes
<BJKlein> Reason, have you bumped into Edgar Swank yet?
http://www.imminst.o...=ST&f=75&t=3596<WaltDisney> They use a funeral director approach
<Reason> the last newsletter was interesting in that respect
<Th3Hegem0n1> adios.
<Reason> no, no, I hadn't see nthat
<WaltDisney> Alcor does not use a funeral directory, they are the most experienced with dead bodies so far
<BJKlein> not sure how active they are.. kinda cheezy website..
<John_Ventureville> Edgar Swank is quite a character!!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<BJKlein> but he said i should contact the Pres of AC
<Jonesey> bjk you just got one more member
<John_Ventureville> ACS?
<John_Ventureville> American Cryonics Society?
<BJKlein> Jim Yount yes
<BJKlein> thanks Jonesey~
<BJKlein> i'll send you the pack soon!
<Reason> Guys - I have to duck out soon...so ask me your remaining questions or offer comments
<WaltDisney> A funeral director is far more near of you and more experienced with body, why Alcor does not use funeral director
<BJKlein> do you think we'll see a technological singularity, reason?
<Jonesey> bjk:I already have a 6 pack due to CR
..actually 8pack i'm told
<Reason> Walt - you should read up on the recent legislative stuff for an answer to that
<WaltDisney> Reason, what do you mean? URL? Explication ?
<BJKlein> heh..
<Reason>
http://www.alcor.org...egislation.html<Reason> basically the funeral directors were the root cause of the problems, as I read it
<Reason> any way - technological singularity, yes
<Reason> just not much before 2040
<BJKlein> ah.. so work to anti-aging via bio now?
<BJKlein> to have time..
<Reason> so I do view biotech as a first things first necessity
<Reason> but as I said before, there's more than enough resources to do it all
<WaltDisney> You need to find a funeral director that accept to do the procedure
<BJKlein> good point
<Reason> if the public support is there
<BJKlein> bio is a stepping stone also
<Reason> yes, via understanding the brain
<BJKlein> to thinking about life extension
<BJKlein> that also
<Reason> I don't think we'll get AI without a far greater understanding of neuro stuff
<Reason> hence my 2040 date
<BJKlein> right...big thanks for joining us!!
<Reason> no problem; off back to work now
<Reason> good evening all
<John_Ventureville> Reason, a pleasure learning from you
<BJKlein> keep up the Longevity Meme and the good Fight Aging!
<John_Ventureville> good night!
<FutureQ> g'night
<John_Ventureville> but next time, no politics!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<John_Ventureville> *Jonesy!!*
<FutureQ> I have a funeral director WD
<Jonesey> can't i have any fun around here?? *whine*
<John_Ventureville> nope!
<John_Ventureville> : )
<WaltDisney> They are far more near of you and experienced with dead body they just need to accept to follow the procedure quickly
<tomo> dammit, ex-gf called so i couldn't be around for more of the talk.
<WaltDisney> it`s also cheaper
<WaltDisney> why she called you
<WaltDisney> if she is ex
<John_Ventureville> Tomo, ex-gf rates higher than us??
<tomo> we're still good friends. she's coming to visit at the end of the month.
<John_Ventureville> a-hah
<WaltDisney> good friend! and no sex !
<tomo> i tried to get off quick but she was really upset and i didn't want to be a dick
<WaltDisney> weird
<tomo> hahaha
<John_Ventureville> tomo, well, you are a good man for being a platonic friend
<tomo> thanks
<FutureQ> Get off quick, ex-gf, dick, these all seem to go together LOL
<tomo> freudian vocabulary slip?
<tomo> nah
<John_Ventureville> After I'm done with a woman they don't ever want to see me again!
<FutureQ> hmmmmm, maybe, hehe
<WaltDisney> because you are poor
<tomo> i usually keep in touch
<John_Ventureville> I try not to hurt them and so in the end REALLY hurt them
<tomo> ahh
<WaltDisney> I dont find my girlfriends beautiful
<FutureQ> ah the fairer sex and their unfair pension for the well healed
<John_Ventureville> "well healed"
<John_Ventureville> I get it
<FutureQ> ok heeled'
<FutureQ> my own fvreudian slip
<John_Ventureville> aha
<tomo> heh women. i'm waiting for engineered paradise a la david pearce
<John_Ventureville> I admit money does play a part in the courtship/mating game
<John_Ventureville> I love the Hedonics Imperative website
<John_Ventureville> one of my favorites
<tomo> i recommend it to people
<WaltDisney> my dream is to change my cat into a woman
<John_Ventureville> LOL
<John_Ventureville> I saw a Twilight Zone episode sort of like that
<FutureQ> WD are you Yvan?
<tomo> you want to make love to your cat?
<WaltDisney> no
<WaltDisney> I am the guy who sent you an email
<FutureQ> dadadodo?
<WaltDisney> yes
<FutureQ> ok, both of you are French speaking so I was cose and Yvan jokes about having sex with his cat.
<WaltDisney> lol
<John_Ventureville> Yvan gave me some very disturbing sex advice on cryonet
<WaltDisney> masturbation is far better than real sex
<John_Ventureville> nope
<John_Ventureville> you just havn't been with the right partner yet
<FutureQ> how so John?
<John_Ventureville> Q, in regards to what?
<John_Ventureville> sorry
<FutureQ> the disturbing advice
<WaltDisney> Did you sleep with a woman you find beautiful ? John_Ventureville
<John_Ventureville> yes
<John_Ventureville> but it was more than just physical beauty
<WaltDisney> Did you sleep with a ugly girl then ?
<WaltDisney> Which one was the best
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<John_Ventureville> lol
<John_Ventureville> *I guess I walked into this one*
<tomo> hey, if you're happier masturbating... consider yourself lucky (maybe)
<WaltDisney> I prefer masturbation
<WaltDisney> it`s far better
<WaltDisney> fantasm is always good
<FutureQ> Well folks, I need to be going.]
<tomo> so what did you guys think about the talk? are you already readers of his blog(s)?
<WaltDisney> yes I am
<John_Ventureville> Q, take care!
<FutureQ> I am a reader and asociate with on the Methuselah Foundation, anmd with that I msut get going, g'night all.
<tomo> i just upped my donation to the MM prize last night
<FutureQ> good thanks
<Jonesey> tomo his politics sound loathsome but otherwise he seemed like his heart was in the right place
<Jonesey> and he did finally remind me that i need to sign up for imminst
<tomo> yes, he is willing to put his libertarianism ahead of funding stem cell research, for one
<tomo> heart definitely in the right place
<tomo> very passionate dude
<John_Ventureville> what is his educational background?
<John_Ventureville> what does he do for a living?
<tomo> from what i gather... i believe he came from the UK to berkeley to do some research
<John_Ventureville> ok
<Jonesey> it's interesting, most academics are liberals but a few techsters are "libertarians"
<tomo> i'm kinda ashamed now, i am a member of the libertarian party. but i believe in high taxes.
<tomo> but the party supports sensible drug policies, it's really a one issue thing for me
* tomo is a cognitive libertarian, perhaps
<slander> high taxes and free drugs for all?
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<John_Ventureville> have high sales taxes on all the legalized drugs!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<tomo> 'progressive' taxes and affordable drugs
<tomo> John_Ventureville: actually, yes
<John_Ventureville> ok!
<John_Ventureville> a part of me is for legalizing it all with stiff penalties for those who drive under the influence or in any other way endanger others by irresponsible drug use
<tomo> i don't think bullets should be made illegal, just taxed 1000%
<John_Ventureville> I"M AGAINST THAT!
<John_Ventureville> : )
<tomo> haha
<tomo> you should be penalized for endangering anybody regardless of state of mind
<John_Ventureville> any Europeans here?
<tomo> (except for yourself. go ahead and jump out of planes and off bridges)
<John_Ventureville> lol
<John_Ventureville> I declare tonight's chat over!
<John_Ventureville> ***********************************************************************
<BJKlein> heh, thanks
