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Which exercises decrease longevity?


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#1 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 10:30 PM


I had heard some vague statements that certain types of exercise decrease longevity. I am wondering what types of exercises those might be.

I realize that high-risk exercising like mountain climbing could lower your life expectancy. I also realize that extreme sports like football and rugby are hard on the body. Additionally, I realize that crazy stunts like base jumping, swimming in frigid water, and so forth are dangerous. I am not talking about any of these obvious things.

I am wondering if any types of exercising, by their nature, decrease life expectancy, such as by their effects on metabolism, the cardiovascular system, and so forth. I had heard different theories about why CR works. Supposedly, mice exposed to continually colder temperatures had lower metabolisms and thus had nearly identical results to mice on a CR regimen. (The same enzymes were produced, etc.) Since cardiovascular workouts increase metabolism, could that reduce life expectancy? I have been running 2 miles 3 times a week lately.

What about anerobic exercise? I have actually been trying to increase my caloric intake through protein, and have been taking creatine in combination with upper body workouts in order to increase my muscle mass. The effects have been minimal since I have only been at it for 5 weeks though. Since you need to eat more to gain muscle, this is basically the opposite of CR, so would it be reasonable to conclude that it might decrease my longevity?

I don't think I would ever be able to follow a CR regimen. However, if I consciously try to eat a bit more than usual, my best guess right now is that it would decrease my longevity marginally. Am I correct, or will it not affect me? or will it affect me more than just marginally?

#2 Shepard

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:46 PM

I'm far from an expert on CRON, but my understanding is the majority of the longevity benefits of it can be attained by beginning it late in life. Lifestyle prior to that point certainly matters, though.

Aerobic and anaerobic exercise are necessary for optimal health, but too much of either will lead to an undesirable condition. I have a feeling the body can adapt in the long term, though...particularly to excessive aerobic exercise.

But, to answer your question, you are not exercising at a level that will be harmful. Putting on a decent bit of muscle isn't going to negatively affect your longevity, IMO. It will certainly affect you positively before you die, though.

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#3 zoolander

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 12:40 AM

I hope to discuss what optimal training is in regards to longevity in the skypecast I am conducting this week.

#4 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:19 PM

Swimmers usually like to claim that swimming is superior to running because it is less stressful on the body. How much evidence is there supporting that claim?

#5 Shepard

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:25 PM

People who run excessively throughout life without issues are like professional Olympic lifters, almost all of them owe their longevity in the sport to genetics. Now, a runner without a runner's body can extend his/her pain-free years with a balanced weight training program. Swimming can be better from an impact perspective (especially if the runner is an amateur with bad technique/equipment). But, the cold water usually increases hunger, so it could make you fat. Fat people drown.

I wouldn't rely on only one form of aerobic exercise, mix it up and you'll be much better off in the long term.

#6 cemiess

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 09:21 PM

Can I just throw this one in?

I've never had a "Runner's High" from swimming...

Not sure if anyone has but I would say that they seem to be very different forms of exercise with very different results.

#7 DukeNukem

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 09:48 PM

I believe (through a great deal of reading) that any endurance exercise is pro-aging, such as running or biking for longer than 30 minutes at more than 50-60% of max capacity. And this is made far worse if the activity is not low impact on the joints.

#8 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 11:48 PM

Thank you, Duke. I was fearful that this is true. Recently I have been doing two miles per day which takes about 15 minutes. I have been putting my full effort into it. Should I extend it out to 30 minutes at half effort? Any dissenting opinions?

#9 luv2increase

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:12 AM

I have actually decided to start training for a marathon. I just started running around 2 weeks ago, and I'm going for a 10 mile run in 2 days. Before I started running a couple weeks ago, all I did was rebounding (mini-trampoline) for 30-45 minutes a day. I ran 8 miles yesterday with ease. I have been running every other day to allow proper recuperation. I would say that I am running at about 40% effort. I think one can partake in excessive aerobic training as long as they take preventative measures to combat the extra stress that is placed upon them. These measures include proper nutrition, rest, mind-set, and supplementation. If all of these are correctly in place IMO, it won't have any negative effect towards one's life extension goal.

#10 Shepard

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:50 AM

I've never found a good argument against aerobic training unless practiced excessively. I don't think it's the perfect exercise and it wouldn't be my choice if I could only choose one type for the remainder of my life, but an intelligent application of it leads to positive cardiac adaptations.

#11 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 03:10 AM

love your avatar pic, progressive!

CR works better for life extension of course than exercise... and moderate exercise is better than overly intense. A little bit of cardio is good (for your heart strength, and keeping your blood moving well as you advance in age)--and I'm an advocate for weight bearing for your bones over swimming (plus all the chlorine in pools is not good to be breathing in, some similar damage to smoking)

I walk on a treadmill that is slightly uphill -- and I read! (better IMO that sitting and reading :) ) but I get two things done at once--I'm a multitasking fiend... I do weights while I watch movies at my home (if I'm not doing the computer of course--I've tried typing while walking, I can do it... but don't think the jiggling is good for my MacBook)

#12 bgwowk

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 04:03 AM

I believe (through a great deal of reading) that any endurance exercise is pro-aging, such as running or biking for longer than 30 minutes at more than 50-60% of max capacity.

Depending on what you mean by "aging", that is contrary to an awful lot of data. The effect of exercise on longevity (which is not necessarily the same as aging) is presumably what most interests people, and there is strong evidence that vigorous endurance exercise prevents disease and extends life.

There is the Harvard Alumni Health Study

http://jama.ama-assn...act/273/15/1179

Exercise intensity and longevity in men. The Harvard Alumni Health Study

I. M. Lee, C. C. Hsieh and R. S. Paffenbarger Jr
Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA.

OBJECTIVE--To examine the independent associations of vigorous (> or = 6 resting metabolic rate [MET] score) and nonvigorous (< 6 MET score) physical activity with longevity. DESIGN--Prospective cohort study, following up men from 1962 or 1966 through 1988. SETTING/PARTICIPANTS--Subjects were Harvard University alumni, without self-reported, physician-diagnosed cardiovascular disease, cancer, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (n = 17,321). Men with a mean age of 46 years reported their physical activities on questionnaires at baseline. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE--All-cause mortality (3728 deaths). RESULTS--Total energy expenditure and energy expenditure from vigorous activities, but not energy expenditure from nonvigorous activities, related inversely to mortality. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risks of dying associated with increasing quintiles of total energy expenditure were 1.00 (referent), 0.94, 0.95, 0.91 and 0.91, respectively (P [trend] < .05). The relative risks of dying associated with less than 630, 630 to less than 1680, 1680 to less than 3150, 3150 to less than 6300, and 6300 or more kJ/wk expended on vigorous activities were 1.00 (referent), 0.88, 0.92, 0.87, and 0.87, respectively (P [trend] = .007). Corresponding relative risks for energy expended on nonvigorous activities were 1.00 (referent), 0.89, 1.00, 0.98, and 0.92, respectively (P [trend] = .36). Analyses of vigorous and nonvigorous activities were mutually adjusted. Among men who reported only vigorous activities (259 deaths), we observed decreasing age-standardized mortality rates with increasing activity (P = .05); among men who reported only nonvigorous activities (380 deaths), no trend was apparent (P = .99). CONCLUSIONS--These data demonstrate a graded inverse relationship between total physical activity and mortality. Furthermore, vigorous activities but not nonvigorous activities were associated with longevity. These findings pertain only to all-cause mortality; nonvigorous exercise has been shown to benefit other aspects of health.


A later analysis of the data showed a protective effect against coronary artery disease specifically

http://circ.ahajourn.../full/102/9/975

Conclusions—Total physical activity and vigorous activities showed the strongest reductions in CHD risk. Moderate and light activities, which may be less precisely measured, showed nonsignificant inverse associations. The association between physical activity and a reduced risk of CHD also extends to men with multiple coronary risk factors.


Then there's the Stanford University study

http://win.niddk.nih...physicalfit.htm

Physical Fitness Level: Best Predictor of Death in Men

After adjusting for age, the best predictor of death among all subjects was peak exercise capacity, measured in metabolic equivalents, or MET...  Among all subjects, researchers calculated that a 1-MET increase in exercise capacity yielded a 12 percent improvement in survival.


And the same thing is observed in women

http://www.cbass.com...isecapwomen.htm

There is a good summary here

http://www.pponline..../encyc/0003.htm

Within limits, exercise's protective effects tend to expand as you increase your quantity of exercise. Jogging just 10 miles per week improves your chances of living longer rather dramatically, compared to completing no exercise at all. Covering 25 to 30 miles each week lowers your risk of dying even more. Beyond 30 miles, though, there's little evidence that more miles limit the grim reaper's activities any further.

Ralph Paffenbarger, M.D., one of principal investigators in the Harvard Alumni Study, summarises the benefits of exercise with a neat formula: For each hour that a person exercises, he/she gets roughly two extra hours of life! Paffenbarger's proposition is true only for reasonable amounts of exercise, though (probably for up to 30 weekly miles of running). Otherwise, immortality could be 'purchased' simply by exercising for slightly more than 12 hours each day, which would 'buy back' the lost 24-hour period.


Note this especially

The type of exercise you choose matters when it comes to longevity. Recent research from Finland indicates that individuals who engage in endurance activities (running, cycling, swimming, cross country skiing, walking) live about six years longer than couch potatoes. In contrast, those who prefer team sports like basketball, ice hockey, or soccer live just four years more. And sports-active people who prefer 'power-type' activities, including weight lifting, field events, and sprinting, last for only two additional years.

However, most of the increase in lifespan enjoyed by the Finnish team-sport and power athletes is due to social status, not athletic activity (team and power athletes tend to enjoy greater social status than sedentary people, which gives them better living conditions, higher-quality food, and superior health care). When the influence of social status is removed from the analysis, only athletic-minded individuals who routinely engage in endurance-type activities enjoy greater longevity than the Finnish non-exercisers. The key difference is that participation in endurance exercise makes it highly unlikely that someone will keel over between the ages of 50 and 69.  Such deaths, which occur more frequently in the team-sport, power-sport, and sedentary groups, are shifted into the seventh decade of life in those who huff and puff while running, skiing, cycling, or walking several times each week.


For most people reading this, not "keeling over between the ages of 50 and 69" is going to be the biggest determinant of whether they live to reach "escape velocity" in biogerontological research later this century. Therefore whatever effect endurance exercise has on intrinsic aging is pratically moot. I believe that staying away from intense exercise or endurance exercise based on simplistic intuitions about wear-and-tear, which seems to be where this thread it going, is a bad idea. Yes, joints can be an issue. But joints are more easily replaced than coronary arteries, and they won't kill you in the process of failing.
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#13 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 04:12 AM

See? the above is ^ is what makes the Immortality Institute, an Institute-- thanks as always for taking the time to put together a detailed post!

#14 Live Forever

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 04:14 AM

Thanks Dr. Wowk. I have just started running a lot more and was about to get concerned, but you alleviated my fears.

#15 bgwowk

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 04:17 AM

My motives are selfish. I'm addicted to endurance sports, and if they are really unhealthy (unlikely), I need to know! :)
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#16 Shepard

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 04:25 AM

If anyone is interested in an entertaining (if not completely accurate) blog section devoted to anti-endurance activities:

http://www.arthurdev...njury_and_risk/

#17 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 07:10 AM

Ok, so according to that site and other sources, running is bad.

Cycling can be dangerous and stationary cycling is boring.

Swimming in chlorinated water is bad. Risk of drowning (from fatness).

What is left? The Gazelle Freestyle? Tae Bo? How depressing...

Edited by progressive, 04 April 2007 - 07:24 AM.


#18 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 07:17 AM

Actually cycling and stationary cycling seems like the best of the bunch. I do have a great bike and love to ride, so maybe I could try doing this some more in combination with the lighter jogging mentioned above.

I would do swimming too, but only if someone can put down the claim that chlorine negatively affects health comparably to smoking.

#19 basho

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:36 PM

...and stationary cycling is boring.

I do stationary cycling. To relieve the boredom I have an iPod full of various genres to fit my mood (rock/pop/electro/dance/80's/reggae, etc) and I'll visualize being an awesome rockstar while I ride.

Then I get off the bike and spend the next ~11 hours as a boring company IT employee [sleep]

#20 Mixter

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:51 PM

The dangerous two things in sport I can think of: 1) Any overstraining exercise which
greatly raises your blood pressure (usually anaerobic like weights, but could be done
with sprinting), thus causing endothelial damage and upping atherosclerosis risk 2)
Excessively risky sports. Freeclimbing or BMXing or so are sure nice experiences, but
if enjoyed, at least should be limited (accident risk naturally increases over time).
Apart from that, there isn't that much to worry about.

Regarding endurance, I think the cardiac issues of athletes are limited to causes from
above point 1). Yes, you can always do things wrong, i.e. not wear a bike helmet, or run
regularly without running shoes or on busy streets. But I really enjoy running and
endurance in general. The big negative is that the first months to years can be an
annoying start. If it does something bad instead of good to joints in the long run (which
I don't think it does if done right), I count on at least joint repair working better in 25 or
more years. Running or cycling is the best way to improve motivation and control in
general, increase norepinephrine levels, while having time to think, relax when done at
slower speeds, and while enjoying outdoors...

PS: Isn't the necessity of anaerobic exercise for muscle/strength building a somehow
outdated concept? All fitness centers/gyms I've been to are telling you to train in an
aerobic manner when weightlifting and only going up slowly. With high protein intake,
muscle tone via mostly-aerobic exercise isn't a problem for me. No, not anywhere near
bodybuilding proportions. (But the more extreme body shaping is not about health or
longevity, but an artificial tuning, which is so much hassle atm, that, if I'd be interested
in that, I would still rather wait for better technology to do it with less time and effort.)

#21 wydell

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:53 PM

My guess would be that any form of overtraining (endurance or otherwise) could also decrease life expectancy. I suppose the line between optimum training and over training might be a thin one. And it probably has something to do with genetics, diet, available rest recovery time, mental state etc . . . Most people probably have an undertraining problem : )

#22 donjoe

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:45 AM

Fat people drown.

Say what? I thought fat floats and fat people have an easier time holding their heads above the water than the rest of us.
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#23 health_nutty

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 07:42 PM

Say what? I thought fat floats and fat people have an easier time holding their heads above the water than the rest of us.


Yes you are 100 percent correct. Fat is less dense than water.

#24 Shepard

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 12:48 AM

For future reference, my refusal to use smilies sometimes make my comments come off as serious when I'm just amusing myself.

#25 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 06:54 AM

Aquatic Sumo Wrestling might be an exercise to add to the list that would decrease life expectancy.

#26 Live Forever

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 07:33 AM

Aquatic Sumo Wrestling might be an exercise to add to the list that would decrease life expectancy.


But that is one of my favorite pastimes. :(

#27 Guest_ato abe_*

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 10:40 AM

Does anyone know of any remedies, supplements or creams that can decrease the impact on joints (esp. knees) from longterm exercise? (I run/jog on grass often...but never on concrete)

#28 mike250

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 11:08 AM

have you considered MSM?

#29 Guest_ato abe_*

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 11:30 AM

I have now! Thanks.

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#30 kenj

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 03:17 PM

Running/sprinting in moderation is not bad, - I consider this activity highly beneficial for the mind and body, when executed outdoors in the mornings, especially with a partner.
If one is not in great shape, start slow, and always stretch the shins afterwards. Here's a great stretch:

http://www.walkinghe...Stretches01.asp

I condition my brain for the day with 30 mins cardio every other morning; first ten minutes slowly jogging, - deep breathing through the nose, followed by twenty minutes fairly fast running, including some auditory stimulus the last ten minutes if I run alone. Makes a world of difference to me.

I also do muscle-building exercises (mostly free weights), "power yoga", and have deep tissue massage down the spine and around my thighs to stimulate the CNS, and remove waste material from tissues with cupping massage.




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