197 replies to this topic

[mustardseed41]

Has anyone tried Burnout sunblock?

http://www.prettylik...p/hb-100101.htm

It has a little less percentage of zinc oxide than Badger sunblock.

[wydell]

[quote name='mustardseed41' date='29-Aug 2008, 09:19 PM' post='260211']
Has anyone tried Burnout sunblock?

http://www.prettylik...p/hb-100101.htm

It has a little less percentage of zinc oxide than Badger sunblock.
[/quote

I have not tried this one, but I have tried UV Natural and I have ordered Soleo. I liked UV Natural.

[goatz]

Hi Fredrik,

Do the sunscreens you reccommend contain carcinogens ? is this a concern ?

[Fredrik]

Hi Fredrik,

Do the sunscreens you reccommend contain carcinogens ? is this a concern ?

No, not to my knowledge. But it protects against a "reasonably anticipated" human carcinogen (according to the National Institute of Health), the sun, and artificial sources of broad spectrum ultraviolet radiation.

National Institute of Health report from 2002:

Newly listed as known human carcinogens are:

Steroidal estrogens. These are a group of related hormones that control sex and growth characteristics and are commonly used in estrogen replacement therapy to treat symptoms of menopause and in oral contraceptives. The report cites data from human epidemiology studies that show an association between estrogen replacement therapy and a consistent increase in the risk of endometrial cancer (cancer of the endometrial lining of the uterus) and a less consistent increase in the risk of breast cancer.

As for the other common use for steroidal estrogens, the report says the evidence suggests estrogen-containing oral contraceptives may be associated with an increased risk of breast cancer but may protect against ovarian and endometrial cancers.

Broad Spectrum Ultraviolet Radiation (UVR). UVR is produced by the sun as part of solar radiation and by artificial sources such as sun lamps and tanning beds, in medical diagnosis and treatment procedures, and in industry for promoting polymerization reactions. The report cites data indicating a cause-and-effect relationship between this radiation and skin cancer, cancer of the lip and melanoma of the eye. The report goes on to say that skin cancers are observed with increasing duration of exposure and for those who experience sunburn. The individual components of UVR, which includes ultraviolet A, ultraviolet B and ultraviolet C radiation, are listed in the report, not as "known", but as "reasonably anticipated" human carcinogens — See below.

Wood dust. Listed as a "known human carcinogen" in this report, wood dust is created when machines and tools cut, shape and finish wood. Wood dust is particularly prevalent in sawmills, furniture manufacture and cabinet making. According to the report, unprotected workers have a higher risk of cancers of the nasal cavities and sinuses.

Nickel compounds. Used in many industrial applications as catalysts and in batteries, pigments and ceramics, the report newly lists nickel compounds as "known" human carcinogens based on studies of workers showing excess deaths from lung and nasal cancers and on their mechanisms of action.

http://www.nih.gov/n...02/niehs-11.htm

Edited by Fredrik, 25 September 2008 - 02:01 PM.

[kirtap]

I'm considering to try this out, my only concern is that i will look like a ghost during the summertime. I guess that could be "fixed" by using self tanners, but that sounds like a lot of hassle . Ah well, no pain, no gain, right?

[mustardseed41]

I'm considering to try this out, my only concern is that i will look like a ghost during the summertime. I guess that could be "fixed" by using self tanners, but that sounds like a lot of hassle . Ah well, no pain, no gain, right?

What sunscreen are you refering to?

[kirtap]

I'm considering to try this out, my only concern is that i will look like a ghost during the summertime. I guess that could be "fixed" by using self tanners, but that sounds like a lot of hassle . Ah well, no pain, no gain, right?

What sunscreen are you refering to?

I'm referring to idea of using Fredrik's regimen, or the use of sunscreen at all. I understand the benefits of it, but on the same time I'd rather not look like I've never been outside the house during the summer. Decisions, decisions..

[Ben]

I'm considering to try this out, my only concern is that i will look like a ghost during the summertime. I guess that could be "fixed" by using self tanners, but that sounds like a lot of hassle . Ah well, no pain, no gain, right?

What sunscreen are you refering to?

I'm referring to idea of using Fredrik's regimen, or the use of sunscreen at all. I understand the benefits of it, but on the same time I'd rather not look like I've never been outside the house during the summer. Decisions, decisions..

Believe me if you follow his regimen your skin will be so nice that looking a little white (not pale mind you) will be insignificant in comparison.

Also if you eat some natural carotenoids you may be able to bring some colour to your skin.

[kai73]

• Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos) 480 mg/day = two capsules one hour before breakfast.

• Glucosamine sulfate 1500 mg/day to ensure optimum hyaluronic acid production, not only in joints but other connective tissue. You lose HA in your epidermis from your 30s. 50% of the whole body's HA is found in the skin where it gives volume to the face and enhance cell communication. HA gets degraded by free radicals and can act like a "heat sink", protecting more vital structures.

are there any scientific studies (in vivo) on the quoted supplements? i am asking cause i am interested but couldn't find any in internet.

[Fredrik]

• Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos) 480 mg/day = two capsules one hour before breakfast.

• Glucosamine sulfate 1500 mg/day to ensure optimum hyaluronic acid production, not only in joints but other connective tissue. You lose HA in your epidermis from your 30s. 50% of the whole body's HA is found in the skin where it gives volume to the face and enhance cell communication. HA gets degraded by free radicals and can act like a "heat sink", protecting more vital structures.

are there any scientific studies (in vivo) on the quoted supplements? i am asking cause i am interested but couldn't find any in internet.

There´s plenty of both in vivo and in vitro studies on Polypodium leucotomos (Pubmed lists 17 entries on PL + skin) but not much on oral glucosamine (one paper + a non-published study by the Murad skincare company). Lots more on topical glucosamine though. But there´s no reason that glucosamine would only be used as a building block for HA in the joints when half of the bodys HA is in the skin. But if you want the best studied oral photoprotectants I would go for Heliocare, pycnogenol and lutein. I´m thinking of dropping the glucosamine from my regime. Not because of lack of effect but I´m concerned with its influence on metabolic pathways (insulin resistence, leptin) and I don´t want it to mess with my CR diet.

Polypodium leucotomos

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=249523

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=248125

And the ongoing study:

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=244628


Glucosamine

Published in J Cosmet Derm dec 2006. From P & G which include acetyl glucosamine in their Olay products:

J Cosmet Dermatol. 2006 Dec;5(4):309-15.Links
Glucosamine: an ingredient with skin and other benefits.
Bissett DL. Procter & Gamble Co., Miami Valley Laboratories, Cincinnati, OH 45252, USA. bissett.dl@pg.com

Both glucosamine and its derivative N-acetyl glucosamine are amino-monosaccharides that serve key biochemical functions on their own and as substrate precursors for the biosynthesis of polymers such as glycosaminoglycans (e.g., hyaluronic acid) and for the production of proteoglycans. Glucosamine has an excellent safety profile and has been shown to provide benefits in several clinical disorders.


Glucosamine compounds have been reported to have several beneficial effects on the skin or skin cells. Because of its stimulation of hyaluronic acid synthesis, glucosamine has been shown to accelerate wound healing, improve skin hydration, and decrease wrinkles. In addition, as an inhibitor of tyrosinase activation, it inhibits melanin production and is useful in treatment of disorders of hyperpigmentation.

Mechanistically, glucosamine also has both anti-inflammatory and chondroprotective effects. Clinical trials have shown benefit in using oral glucosamine supplementation to improve symptoms and slow the progression of osteoarthritis in humans. Glucosamine has also been used to prevent and treat osteoarthritis in animals. Based on other observations, glucosamine has been suggested for additional clinical uses, including treatment of inflammatory bowel disease, migraine headaches, and viral infections. The current clinical uses for topical and oral glucosamine compounds and the mechanistic rationale for these uses are reviewed here. PMID: 17716251

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Edited by Fredrik, 27 October 2008 - 11:00 PM.

[kismet]

This is probably my third attempt at  getting a DIY vit c serum done. Damn those high prices and incompetent pharmacists in Austria.

I would be very interested on your take of a DIY Vitamin C topical versus SkinCeuticals C & E! I use 1/4 tsp. "Now" Ascorbic Acid powder (1,125 mg) to 1 tablespoon distilled water (microwave water 7 seconds then add powder).

Is the vitamin c powder (much) more stable than the vitamin c solution? How long would a DIY vit c solution last without getting oxidised?

"The extent of harm possible by applying substantially oxidized ascorbic acid at a low pH to skin is not known, and probably relatively minor if infrequent and at low percentages, but there can be no question that it forces a pointless aging burden on healthy skin because the formula continues to penetrate into and affect the dermis whether it is pristine or not." http://www.treatment...d-C-Serums.html
I don't get it, why is oxidised vitamin c dangerous? Shouldn't it just do nothing? It sounds quite sensationalist and I did not find anything about harmful vit c effects on pubmed...

[Fredrik]

I don't get it, why is oxidised vitamin c dangerous? Shouldn't it just do nothing? It sounds quite sensationalist and I did not find anything about harmful vit c effects on pubmed...

Your skin cells will have to reduce dehydroascorbic acid back to ascorbic acid. This conversion is glutathione dependent, so constantly using dehydroascorbic acid topically can theoretically deplete you of glutathione that could be put to better use.

Edited by Fredrik, 18 November 2008 - 08:30 AM.

[Adistar]

re. the skinceutical CE Ferulic and spf 4

Here's the scientific study for that reference

J Am Acad Dermatol. 2003 Jun;48(6):866-74.Click here to read Links
UV photoprotection by combination topical antioxidants vitamin C and vitamin E.
Lin JY, Selim MA, Shea CR, Grichnik JM, Omar MM, Monteiro-Riviere NA, Pinnell SR.

Department of Medicine, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710, USA.

BACKGROUND: Virtually all plants and animals protect themselves from the sun using vitamins C and E. OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to see if a combination of topical vitamins C and E is better for UV protection to skin than an equivalent concentration of topical vitamin C or E alone. METHODS: We developed a stable aqueous solution of 15% L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and 1% alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E). We applied antioxidant or vehicle solutions to pig skin daily for 4 days. We irradiated (1-5x minimal erythema dose) control- and antioxidant-treated skin using a solar simulator with a 295-nm band-pass filter. On day 5, we measured antioxidant protection factor, erythema, sunburn cells, and thymine dimers. RESULTS: The combination of 15% L-ascorbic acid and 1% alpha-tocopherol provided significant protection against erythema and sunburn cell formation; either L-ascorbic acid or 1% alpha-tocopherol alone also was protective but the combination was superior. Application during 4 days provided progressive protection that yielded an antioxidant protection factor of 4-fold. In addition, the combination of vitamins C and E provided protection against thymine dimer formation. CONCLUSION: Appreciable photoprotection can be obtained from the combination of topical vitamins C and E. We suggest that these natural products may protect against skin cancer and photoaging.

You may also want to consider supplementing with Heliocare, which also provide UV-B and UV-A protection

Drugs Today (Barc). 2007 Jul;43(7):475-85.Click here to read Links
Polypodium leucotomos extract: a nutraceutical with photoprotective properties.
Gonzalez S, Alonso-Lebrero JL, Del Rio R, Jaen P.

Dermatology Service, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY 10022, USA. gonzals6@mskcc.org

Ultraviolet (UV) irradiation causes multifaceted damage to the skin and adjacent tissue layers, and is one of the leading causes of premature skin aging, immunosuppression and carcinogenesis. Photoprotection can be achieved by the use of sunscreens and also by systemically administered compounds that fight the deleterious biological effects of UV exposure, or preferably both. In this review, we summarize the current knowledge on the tissue, cellular and molecular mechanisms underlying the photoprotective effect of Polypodium leucotomos fern extract. P. leucotomos blocked the deleterious effect of UV irradiation both in vivo and in vitro. The molecular basis of photoprotection relies on its ability to inhibit free radical generation, prevent photodecomposition of both endogenous photoprotective molecules and DNA, and prevent UV-induced cell death. Its complete loss of toxicity combined with its multifactor protection makes it a valuable tool not only for direct photoprotection, but also as an efficacious adjuvant to phototherapy of various skin diseases.

Heliocare Gives me bad skin allergies. Why am I allergic to it??

[Adistar]

I´ve added a few things but the core products are still there and always will be: sunscreen, retinoid and vitamin C + E serum. Been using azelaic acid on and off for years against acne and for brightening skin. Ok, here it goes:

Morning

• Cerave hydrating cleanser

• vitamin C + E serum (Skinceuticals C + E ferulic). Will order and try the new hydroalcoholic lightweight serum Phloretin CF under the C + E ferulic to further minimize elastin breakdown. I also apply C + E ferulic serum on my neck and lips.

wait 20-30 minutes

• La Roche-Posay fluide extreme SPF 50+ for face and the SPF 50+ cream for the eye area. Bioderma SPF stick for lips.

• Peter Thomas Roth or Colorsciences Sunforgettable SPF 30 powder to matify (it provides neglible protection though).

Evening

• The Body shop Aloe vera sensitive foaming facewash (the aloe vera is just marketing fluff. I like that it´s fragrance free and mild) or Cerave hydrating cleanser

• A retinoid on face, neck and hands (Tazarotene 0.1% cream or tretinoin 0.05%) and on alternate nights azelaic acid gel 15% (Finacea) on the face only. About once a week or less depending on my tolerance I use one of the strongest retinoids on the market, tretinoin alcohol gel 0.1%, as a "mini-peel". I find tretinoin better at "plumping" skin up but with some redness and tazarotene better against enlarged pores. So i use both, but tretinoin is still the most studied retinoid against photoaging. I apply tretinoin 0.05% + a very emollient niacinamide cream on my lips to smooth and plump them up, increase collagen production and enhance skin barrier recovery.

Wait 1-2 hours. Tretinoin breaks down in the presence of light, oxygen and oxidizing agents.
So I´m careful not to apply anything directly over it. But a bland cream is probably not a problem. It will buffer your retinoid and decrease absorption which you may want if you´re still getting used to it.

• Relastin skin revitalizer (zinc ion cream. May stimulate functional elastin production. But this hasn´t been studied enough in humans yet. If not, it´s still a lightly exfoliating non-comedogenic cream).

http://www.skinandag...m/article/7850#


Supplements for skin health

• Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos) 480 mg/day = two capsules one hour before breakfast.

• Glucosamine sulfate 1500 mg/day to ensure optimum hyaluronic acid production, not only in joints but other connective tissue. You lose HA in your epidermis from your 30s. 50% of the whole body's HA is found in the skin where it gives volume to the face and enhance cell communication. HA gets degraded by free radicals and can act like a "heat sink", protecting more vital structures.

• 55 gram of tomato paste with steamed broccoli or kale. Contains a therapeutic dose of lycopene, luteine and zeaxanthine to protect pro-collagen in skin and possibly the retina of your eyes against daily UV-exposure.

Going to add next: Remergent DNA serum with three DNA repair enzymes (in the morning, over C serum and under sunscreen or nightly). I´m awaiting the FDA approval of this companys novel drug, a DNA repair lotion called Dimericine.

Hi Fred, is Tazorac on the face and neck too much "Vitamin A" and toxic for the body? I'm tempted to use it on my neck but am worried about overdoing it.

[TheFountain]

To the original poster. You say you have been applying various methods of skin care since your late teens and that you are now in your early 30s. I am wondering if you can post any past and present pics of yourself. I would like to see how years of conscious skin maintenance and sun protection has benefited you thus far.

Edited by TheFountain, 31 March 2009 - 05:38 AM.

[kismet]

TheFountain, I believe to see Fredrik's pics you'll have to sign-up for membership (I don't think he will suddenly change his mind and post his pics to the public board )

Adistar, considering that Fredrik recently debunked the "tretinoin increases mortality" (they used tretinoin up to twice a day) and if as the researchers themselves claim it did not really increase mortality at that dose and the result was due to chance, then naturally applying it to a bigger area would be safe too (whether you apply it to a bigger area or twice a day on the same area won't change the absorption profile), I guess he may think it's safe. On the off chance the researchers are wrong, though, read below..
I've been wondering if Fredrik uses tretinoin on more than the face too. Personally I've been applying that stuff to a much bigger area for some time now. I've read the literature and can tell you that the absorption of topical retinoids is abysmal (application to 23% of total body surface area results in sub-RDA levels of vitamin A derivates; all the skin on your head *and* neck makes up 9% of total body area according to the rule of nines). So even if you apply it to a considerably bigger area than you planned, you won't even reach the vitamin A RDA. Most studies on isotretinoin and taz show completely negligible absorption, I've yet to see data on tretinoin, but it can't be any different.
Now, whether sub-RDA vitamin A increases mortality is another question, but I find it rather unlikely (we have a discussion thread on vitamin A, I've not read any of it, maybe you should look there). Although, I bet incredibly cautious people like Michael are playing it safe (or have never even used retinoids to begin with).

By the way, comparing the results to the outcomes of the CARET & ATBC trials (as people apparently did *) is rather misleading, because those trials used almost pharmacological doses (20mg beta carotene and 25k IU vitamin A & 30mg beta carotene - and the beta carotene connection only holds in smokers; at least only in smokers does it reach significance if all trials are pooled). So even huge doses lead to a "modest" increase of 20-30% in lung cancer. [1]
I can't imagine vitamin A derivates are (and vitamin A itself is) so toxic that sub-RDA exposure leads to increased mortality. However, I can't find any meaningful (i.e. quality, well-powered) RCTs using low doses of vitamin A and beta carotene to show they aren't.

*After reading that article I really had to re-do the math and take another look at the data (it screams "conspiracy theory", but it's still frightening). I believe increased mortality is very implausible, the compound simply isn't absorbed (still I'd like to read the original paper to be sure what the researchers said, but I believe the the news that Fredrik posted should be enough).
[1] Cancer. 2008 Jul 1;113(1):150-7.
Beta-carotene in multivitamins and the possible risk of lung cancer among smokers versus former smokers: a meta-analysis and evaluation of national brands.
Tanvetyanon T, Bepler G.

Edited by kismet, 31 March 2009 - 05:52 PM.

[GoodFellas]

Hi Fredrik

Where did you get these supplements?

Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos)
Glucosamine sulfate

Thanks

[Ben]

Hi Fredrik

Where did you get these supplements?

Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos)
Glucosamine sulfate

Thanks

Glucosamine can be had at iherb.com. Use the code ERE070 for a discount

[Adistar]

Hi Fredrik

Where did you get these supplements?

Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos)
Glucosamine sulfate

Thanks

Glucosamine can be had at iherb.com. Use the code ERE070 for a discount

You can order HelioCare from New Zealand online shops (do a Google search) for much cheaper but other sites will claim that the dye in the capsule has not been approved by the FDA and is dangerous--well you could of course save some bucks buy buying the New Zealand version and forgo the encapsulation. I'd give you a bottle since I bought so many but am allergic to it, if they were here with me.

[Adistar]

TheFountain, I believe to see Fredrik's pics you'll have to sign-up for membership (I don't think he will suddenly change his mind and post his pics to the public board )

Adistar, considering that Fredrik recently debunked the "tretinoin increases mortality" (they used tretinoin up to twice a day) and if as the researchers themselves claim it did not really increase mortality at that dose and the result was due to chance, then naturally applying it to a bigger area would be safe too (whether you apply it to a bigger area or twice a day on the same area won't change the absorption profile), I guess he may think it's safe. On the off chance the researchers are wrong, though, read below..
I've been wondering if Fredrik uses tretinoin on more than the face too. Personally I've been applying that stuff to a much bigger area for some time now. I've read the literature and can tell you that the absorption of topical retinoids is abysmal (application to 23% of total body surface area results in sub-RDA levels of vitamin A derivates; all the skin on your head *and* neck makes up 9% of total body area according to the rule of nines). So even if you apply it to a considerably bigger area than you planned, you won't even reach the vitamin A RDA. Most studies on isotretinoin and taz show completely negligible absorption, I've yet to see data on tretinoin, but it can't be any different.
Now, whether sub-RDA vitamin A increases mortality is another question, but I find it rather unlikely (we have a discussion thread on vitamin A, I've not read any of it, maybe you should look there). Although, I bet incredibly cautious people like Michael are playing it safe (or have never even used retinoids to begin with).

By the way, comparing the results to the outcomes of the CARET & ATBC trials (as people apparently did *) is rather misleading, because those trials used almost pharmacological doses (20mg beta carotene and 25k IU vitamin A & 30mg beta carotene - and the beta carotene connection only holds in smokers; at least only in smokers does it reach significance if all trials are pooled). So even huge doses lead to a "modest" increase of 20-30% in lung cancer. [1]
I can't imagine vitamin A derivates are (and vitamin A itself is) so toxic that sub-RDA exposure leads to increased mortality. However, I can't find any meaningful (i.e. quality, well-powered) RCTs using low doses of vitamin A and beta carotene to show they aren't.

*After reading that article I really had to re-do the math and take another look at the data (it screams "conspiracy theory", but it's still frightening). I believe increased mortality is very implausible, the compound simply isn't absorbed (still I'd like to read the original paper to be sure what the researchers said, but I believe the the news that Fredrik posted should be enough).
[1] Cancer. 2008 Jul 1;113(1):150-7.
Beta-carotene in multivitamins and the possible risk of lung cancer among smokers versus former smokers: a meta-analysis and evaluation of national brands.
Tanvetyanon T, Bepler G.

Thank you Kismet!
1. Do you personally alternate between tretinoin and retinoid like Frederick does to activate all the receptors? I used to have airbrushed skin when I started Retin-A micro when I was 19 (have swtiched to Tazorac for 4 years, but then it could simply be because I was 19 :D
2. Additionally, how much more would I benefit from applying the medication FIRST as opposed to on top of moisturizer. My skin has been increasingly dry with age and really feel the need of a moisturizer at night. Wouldn't one also be able to argue for facilited penetration of the medication with a moisturizer vehicle? -- I use Laventine Peptide Lotion + [Kukui oil + Jojoba oil (mixed with co-Q10, pom, r-ALA, astaxanthin, and niacin)]

[amonavis]

Oh, the "fun" stuff was just some notes about elastin regeneration and hyaluronic acid stimulation. But most stuff about elastin can be found in the link I provided. One interesting tidbit, ascorbic acid actually inhibits elastin generation in experimental studies on fibroblasts. But the clinical relevance of this, if any, is unknown. It may be that topical ascorbic acid just inhibits non-functional (the result of UV-damage) elastin.

What we know is that topical C will not cause skin sagging, rather the opposite. My experience is that a retinoid + topical C can produce some skin firming after 6-12 months of use.

Fredrik you are a wealth of knowledge. I am curious about the Vitamin C/elastin issue. How can we be sure that Vitamin C will not contribute to sagging over time, if it decreases elastin? I know many people swear by C serums. But have there been studies regarding sagging and vitamin C? I also wonder what role elastin plays in sagging vs collagen.

[goatz]

Hi Fredrik,

Thanks for all the great info.

I was just wondering what your opinion was on the samples of Skinceuticals C + E bought from Ebay being oxidised? is this a concern?

Also, I have been using the La Posay Roche Fluide for a while now and, although it is unperfumed, I still dont like the smell, I was thinking about moving over to the Heliocare 50+ Gel. Is this a good sunscreen?

Many thanks

[JLL]

I'm also wondering whether some of the sample bottles I previously had was oxidized, because the ones I got in the mail today are a very light color, whereas the previous ones were more yellow.

[sdxl]

Also, I have been using the La Posay Roche Fluide for a while now and, although it is unperfumed, I still dont like the smell, I was thinking about moving over to the Heliocare 50+ Gel. Is this a good sunscreen?

I don't think so from looking at the UV absorbers in that sunscreen. I've never found the Fluide Extreme smell objectionable, but have been with added fragrances in other sunscreens.

[nancyd]

Hi Fredrik,

Thanks for all the great info.

I was just wondering what your opinion was on the samples of Skinceuticals C + E bought from Ebay being oxidised? is this a concern?

Once it's oxidized it's no longer effective. I purchased CE Ferulic from ebay before and it was basically water in the vile. Another seller sent the genuine product though.

[Ben]

Hi Fredrik,

Thanks for all the great info.

I was just wondering what your opinion was on the samples of Skinceuticals C + E bought from Ebay being oxidised? is this a concern?

Most vials I've bought from ebay have been oxidised. If you ever decide to purchase the serum this way, make sure you tip out the contents of at least one of the vials onto very clear, white paper. The more yellow the serum is, the more oxidised.

Also, I have been using the La Posay Roche Fluide for a while now and, although it is unperfumed, I still dont like the smell, I was thinking about moving over to the Heliocare 50+ Gel. Is this a good sunscreen?

Many thanks

Based on a comparison of the ingredients and stated protection, I'd stick with your LRP.

[niner]

Hi Fredrik,
I was just wondering what your opinion was on the samples of Skinceuticals C + E bought from Ebay being oxidised? is this a concern?

Most vials I've bought from ebay have been oxidised. If you ever decide to purchase the serum this way, make sure you tip out the contents of at least one of the vials onto very clear, white paper. The more yellow the serum is, the more oxidised.

This was my experience as well. I'm not going to buy any more samples from Ebay. I might make my own using the formulas recently posted around here somewhere.

[happy lemon]

Hi Fredrik,

I found this thread in the web a month ago & since then have been checking out posts regarding the ways and suggestion of skin care.

From what I read, I know that you're an advocate of retinoid (am I correct?) & clinically proven ingredients....glad to know that.

I have a couple of questions for you:

I am a Chinese guy and have just started to use skin care products (all are moisturizers without active ingredients) since last Dec.

What intrigued me to pay attention to take care of my skin was that after a 6-month intensive cardio exercise, I dropped my weight to 58 kg this Feb and not only noticed that I was underweight but also found my face sagging "all of a sudden".

In fact, I think my sagging face is not a result of cardio exercise but due to sun damage, exercises just makes it noticeable!

Back to late 80's, I spent summer of 3 years (total 15 months) outdoor for water activities (my sumer jobs) without any suncreen and sunblock!

How bad my skin is? What does my sagging face look like? I will pm you a link in which you can see the pic (the person in the pic is not me but I get the same issue; the reason why I didn't send you my pic because I only get a film camera but it is out of order right now).

My questions are:

1. do you think Vitamin C (morning) & retinoid (evening) can improve my skin problems? Which part of my face can be improved? Undereye and/or NL fold?

2. if you think Vit C + retinoid cannot fix my problem? What product(s) do you think I should use? FYI, I don't want to do any facelift surgery, or Boxtox or filler injection.

3. what is your comment of the effectiveness of Jabu'she in fighting wrinkles & sagging? [Jabu'she consists of world-patented formula QAL 10 (formerly Lipodermix QA100*). Can it replace retinoid?

4. what is your take of natural & organic skin care products in the role of anti-aging?


I am sorry if you think I have too many questions.

Edited by happy lemon, 16 June 2009 - 03:17 PM.

[Fredrik]

1. Yes. A retinoid 3-7 times a week + sunscreen will give you some modest tightening. This has anecdotally been shown especially with tazarotene after 6 months of nightly usage. 3 times a week is enough to maintain improvements after 1 year. The more often you use it (up to tolerance) the better because it will keep MMPs lowered and you will repair your skin continously.

The influence of C on elastin and elastic fibres is still inconclusive. In vitro C maximizes collagen production but downregulate elastin. But In vivo usage of a 5% C cream strengthens elastic fibers and have no effect on elastin mRNA. At this point I still recommend it daily under sunscreen if you can tolerate it.

Remember that antioxidants can never remove wrinkles, it can only prevent them. I recommend C because it can directly stimulate collagen, something other antioxidants can´t.

A retinoid is more efficient and important for all ages to prevent and repair. A retinoid should be used from puberty and onwards until death (if you believe you will die, that is. This is after all the immortality institute forum )

2. No. I don´t believe a sunscreen, retinoid + C will be enough to treat your nasolabial folds. No topical products will remove them, I´m sorry to say. But this triage of essential topicals will greatly enhance your texture and give you an even fresh healthy skin tone. If there´s better studies published on Revance therapeutics zinc technology to enhance elastin I will write about it here. But until then usage is strictly experimental.

You can eliminate the lines from your nose to the sides of your mouth by using an injectable filler. The hyaluronic acid is a natural component of your skin. Look at it as skin supplementation. It will stimulate new collagen and eventually it will only be necessary to do touch ups every 6-9 months. Your doctor may also use it directly in the cheeks to volumize and eliminate the nasolabial folds. Some people can go 1 year between the injections. I´d say go for it if you´re this bothered by your nasolabial folds.

3. Jabushe is a swedish invention. Lipoic acid is pretty irritating and have caused contact dermatitis. The inflammation it causes can make the skin swell so fine lines diminish and the inflammation can stimulate collagen production but I think there´s better products. The study on Jabushe done by Harry Beitner is a joke. Save your money.

4. What does natural really mean? Arsenic, lead and cyanide is 100% natural, but are they beneficial for the skin just because they´re natural? About 50% of skincare ingredients is derived from the petroleum industry. Oil is a natural product made up of dead animals and vegetation. You see where I´m going with this. It all depends on the ingredients and if they can penetrate the skin and reach their target cells.

Edited by Fredrik, 17 June 2009 - 01:22 PM.

[happy lemon]

Fredrik,

Thx for your input!

By natural & organic ingredients, I mean something like jojoba oil, emu oil, rosehip oil, Manuka Honey etc.