10 replies to this topic

[zoolander]

They are very careful not to mention the product in the paper and unfortunately I cannot get access to the full paper

Clin Cancer Res. 2008 Jan 15;14(2):607-11.
Herbal/Hormonal dietary supplement possibly associated with prostate cancer progression.
Shariat SF, Lamb DJ, Iyengar RG, Roehrborn CG, Slawin KM.Authors' Affiliations: Department of Urology, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Texas, Scott Department of Urology, and Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas.

Background: Patients seek herbal/hormonal dietary supplements (HHDS) to prevent and/or solve health and aging issues. After two men developed an unusual course of clinically aggressive prostate cancer within months of starting daily consumption of the same HHDS product, we investigated the effect of this product on prostate cancer progression. Methods: We evaluated serum levels of total testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone and screened prostate biopsy and metastatic specimens for androgen receptor protein expression and mutations. We did hormone analyses and capillary electrophoresis. We tested the effect of the HHDS product on androgen receptor-negative (DU-145 and PC-3) and androgen receptor-positive (LNCaP) human prostate cancer cell lines. RESULTS: Both patients had low hormone levels. The androgen receptor was expressed in all primary and metastatic prostate cancer tissues and no mutations were identified. Hormone analysis revealed that the HHDS contained testosterone and estradiol. The HHDS product was a more potent dose-dependent stimulator of cancer cell growth than testosterone both in androgen receptor-negative and receptor-positive cell lines. Blocking experiments with increasing concentrations of bicalutamide did not prevent the HHDS product-stimulated growth. We filed an adverse event report with the Food and Drug Administration who issued a warning letter. The manufacturer responded by removing this HHDS product from the market. CONCLUSIONS: The HHDS product contained one or more endocrinologically active tumor-promoting components that had cellular androgen receptor status-independent activity. The HHDS product exhibited potent prostate cancer growth stimulatory activity that was more powerful than that of testosterone, independent of the androgen-receptor status of prostate cancer cells, and resistant to antiandrogen blockade.

PMID: 18223237 [PubMed - in process]

prostatehealth.org.au lists the ingredients of the suspected product

The labeled ingredients included 60 mg of a proprietary blend of six testosterone precursors (androstenediones and androstenediols), 100 mg of the aromatase inhibitor-like flavinoid chrysin, and 100 mg of elk velvet antler per serving.

I have always been super cautious in recommending androgenic hormones or androgenic-like hormones to the aged population. Androgens, of course, are steriods that act as cellular growth promoters.

Read prostatehealth.org.au for more info

Edited by zoolander, 30 January 2008 - 03:57 AM.

[niner]

They are very careful not to mention the product in the paper and unfortunately I cannot get access to the full paper

Clin Cancer Res. 2008 Jan 15;14(2):607-11.
Herbal/Hormonal dietary supplement possibly associated with prostate cancer progression.
Shariat SF, Lamb DJ, Iyengar RG, Roehrborn CG, Slawin KM.Authors' Affiliations: Department of Urology, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Texas, Scott Department of Urology, and Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas.

Background: Patients seek herbal/hormonal dietary supplements (HHDS) to prevent and/or solve health and aging issues. After two men developed an unusual course of clinically aggressive prostate cancer within months of starting daily consumption of the same HHDS product, we investigated the effect of this product on prostate cancer progression. Methods: We evaluated serum levels of total testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone and screened prostate biopsy and metastatic specimens for androgen receptor protein expression and mutations. We did hormone analyses and capillary electrophoresis. We tested the effect of the HHDS product on androgen receptor-negative (DU-145 and PC-3) and androgen receptor-positive (LNCaP) human prostate cancer cell lines. RESULTS: Both patients had low hormone levels. The androgen receptor was expressed in all primary and metastatic prostate cancer tissues and no mutations were identified. Hormone analysis revealed that the HHDS contained testosterone and estradiol. The HHDS product was a more potent dose-dependent stimulator of cancer cell growth than testosterone both in androgen receptor-negative and receptor-positive cell lines. Blocking experiments with increasing concentrations of bicalutamide did not prevent the HHDS product-stimulated growth. We filed an adverse event report with the Food and Drug Administration who issued a warning letter. The manufacturer responded by removing this HHDS product from the market. CONCLUSIONS: The HHDS product contained one or more endocrinologically active tumor-promoting components that had cellular androgen receptor status-independent activity. The HHDS product exhibited potent prostate cancer growth stimulatory activity that was more powerful than that of testosterone, independent of the androgen-receptor status of prostate cancer cells, and resistant to antiandrogen blockade.

PMID: 18223237 [PubMed - in process]

prostatehealth.org.au lists the ingredients of the suspected product

The labeled ingredients included 60 mg of a proprietary blend of six testosterone precursors (androstenediones and androstenediols), 100 mg of the aromatase inhibitor-like flavinoid chrysin, and 100 mg of elk velvet antler per serving.

I have always been super cautious in recommending androgenic hormones or androgenic-like hormones to the aged population. Androgens, of course, are steriods that act as cellular growth promoters.

Read prostatehealth.org.au for more info

Wow. Take a dodgy supp, wind up with your case written up on medline. RIP. I've heard of this case. At least one of those guys is already dead. "elk velvet antler". Hmm. Just the other day we were talking in another thread about some bogus resveratrol that contained "deer antler velvet" among other things, although no actual resveratrol per se.

I think I will henceforth consider the velvet from any antlered creature to be a contrary indicator on supplement quality.

[edward]

...snip

I think I will henceforth consider the velvet from any antlered creature to be a contrary indicator on supplement quality.

LMAO, ROFL, wow that's the best laugh I have had in awhile... But so true all the same.

[zoolander]

I think I will henceforth consider the velvet from any antlered creature to be a contrary indicator on supplement quality

yes that was a ripper

[Michael]

They are very careful not to mention the product in the paper and unfortunately I cannot get access to the full paper

Clin Cancer Res. 2008 Jan 15;14(2):607-11.
Herbal/Hormonal dietary supplement possibly associated with prostate cancer progression.
Shariat SF, Lamb DJ, Iyengar RG, Roehrborn CG, Slawin KM
PMID: 18223237 [PubMed - in process]

prostatehealth.org.au lists the ingredients of the suspected product

The labeled ingredients included 60 mg of a proprietary blend of six testosterone precursors (androstenediones and androstenediols), 100 mg of the aromatase inhibitor-like flavinoid chrysin, and 100 mg of elk velvet antler per serving.

I have always been super cautious in recommending androgenic hormones or androgenic-like hormones to the aged population. Androgens, of course, are steriods that act as cellular growth promoters.

Yup. And then there was PC-SPES ...

I think I will henceforth consider the velvet from any antlered creature to be a contrary indicator on supplement quality.

Good call: deer antler velvet is a fraud. While you're at it, do the same for chrysin, which is also supplement industry junk science.

But anything that claims that it elevates testosterone is either (a) ineffective, and thus a scam, or (b) effective, and thus a likely cancer risk.

The whole class should be avoided as the plague it is.

-Michael

[Edit, 2014: replacing dead link]

Edited by Michael, 31 March 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[Pulptor]

Crap. Another bottle for the garbage.

[david ellis]

But anything that claims that it elevates testosterone is either (a) ineffective, and thus a scam, or (b) effective, and thus a likely cancer risk.

The whole class should be avoided as the plague it is.

-Michael

I thought it was unclear what causes prostrate cancer. The most likely suspect seems to be estrogen.
Even the reports on the deer antler product suspected it was the estrogenic effects of phytoestrogens and the DES in the product. And the ingredient androstenedione is noted for increasing estrogen, not the promoted testosterone. So estrogen seems a more likely suspect than testosterone.

DHEA elevates testosterone some. I take 50 mg regularly. Annual tests of hormones show everything in the normal range. Except my last test was after abstaining from DHEA supplementation for three weeks. My testosterone and DHEA were markedly lower. I feel much better after re-continuing my use. My PSA is alwlays in the low part of the reference range so cancer does not seem to be in my future(knock-knock). LEF in recommending DHEA thinks the increase in testosterone is protective from cancer.

I personally don't recommend DHEA to young people. Without blood tests, and the very likely exuberance of very inexpensive DHEA doses, young people can get in a bunch of trouble.

So I agree, Michael, the whole class should be avoided like the plague, with the exception of DHEA.

[JChief]

But anything that claims that it elevates testosterone is either (a) ineffective, and thus a scam, or (b) effective, and thus a likely cancer risk.

The whole class should be avoided as the plague it is.

-Michael

I beg to differ. Eurycoma longifolia indeed raises free T levels and does so within a matter of weeks. And it even seems to help prevent cancer too they say hehe. Lots of lab results from people that prove that it works. With pretty much zero side effects.

[Michael]

I beg to differ. Eurycoma longifolia indeed raises free T levels and does so within a matter of weeks. And it even seems to help prevent cancer too they say hehe. Lots of lab results from people that prove that it works. With pretty much zero side effects.

Ahem. As far as I can see, almost all the data on E. longifolia and testosterone is in silly models like estrogen-treated rats, and it also seems to "work" on sexual behavior in castrated rats, suggesting a non-T mechanism. There is exactly one human study in PubMed, and it was an uncontrolled, open study (can you say placebo?) done as a coordination between centers in South Africa and Malaysia (can you say less-than-world-class biomedical research centers?).

The cancer data is all test-tube nonsense, properly ignored.

[Brainbox]

I beg to differ. Eurycoma longifolia indeed raises free T levels ........... With pretty much zero side effects.

Isn't that almost a contradictio in terminis?