460 replies to this topic

[missminni]

For your update Missminni, 15 grams did produce an, umm, what could be best described as a mild laxative effect. Nothing to be concerned about, but apparently that’s the threshold that produces an effect in my body.

Also, at 15 grams I did have some appetite suppression, although I did have extra tea to consume the extra res, however tea usually doesn’t do much to my appetite. Today because I’m vomiting from the chemo, it will be hard to judge any suppressant effect. For that matter, for the next 3 or 4 days my appetite will be suppressed from the chemo.

Perhaps this is too much info for the other 149 viewers.

If 15 grams did that I would cut back. Maybe to 12. Right in between. Mild laxative effect I believe is a sign your taking too much. However, if you want to continue at that dosage, remember MaxWatts amazing recipe for diahhrea and it works....8 oz of water a 2 tsp of sugar and 1/4 tsp of salt. It takes care of it immediately.

[missminni]

Good Morning Wccaguy,
I general try to answer posts in order of the post, first post first response. I used to pride myself on a 24 hour or less response time to update all my responses, but as you can see, that’s out the window. I’m going to go out of order here and search for the list, and produce an answer for you, as I sense frustration in your post.

I'm not feeling frustrated William. You don't need to do this for me. I completely understand that you've got a lot on your mind. But I did intend to try to get your attention.

I just wanted to nudge you again about looking at Boswellia because, if you looked at it sooner rather than later, I think you'd be happy you did.

Here is what Maxwatt wrote about it in post #137. I took that post to mean that Maxwatt thought it should be on the short list.

All the best.

I have finished posting all I can for today in the Boswellia thread in the ImmInst.org Supplements category.

I don't see how anyone can spend a few hours looking at the studies done on Boswellia and not become convinced that THEFIRSTIMMORTAL should be supplementing it.

It certainly cannot be said of Boswellia that there aren't enough human studies to justify taking like there are about Resveratrol (and I take Resveratrol so that's not a criticism).

Perhaps a new forum supplement category should be created called "Boswellia" and this thread should be moved there. 8-)

We now have three possible substances to fight lung cancer for 1stImmortal. Boswellia, which appears to work by another path than resveratrol. Resveratrol, which has shown very promising results in vitro and in animals. Then there is large doses of omega-3 oils, which has reduced lymphomas in mice, and a case report of a man who refused chemo and took massive EPA supplements; he appeared to be "cured" in being free of lesions.

All very promising.

For what its worth I agree with Maxwatt. I think it and the omega 3 oils are very promising and if it was me, I would definitely use them and have voiced my opinion but TFI feels that since his funds are limited he wants to go with more proven supplements.

[HighDesertWizard]

For what its worth I agree with Maxwatt. I think it and the omega 3 oils are very promising and if it was me, I would definitely use them and have voiced my opinion but TFI feels that since his funds are limited he wants to go with more proven supplements.

"Proven supplements" or "popular supplements" at the ImmInst.org forum at this instant in time?

I respectfully suggest that there could be a difference. I respectfully suggest that anyone who says that Boswellia is less "proven" than Resveratrol in human studies of disease prevention hasn't looked seriously at the literature on Boswellia.

I'm not bad mouthing Resveratrol. I take Resveratrol.

But the stakes seem awfully high to me in this case to make the assumption that the "most proven" is always the "most popular".

Edited by wccaguy, 31 July 2008 - 04:38 PM.

[missminni]

For what its worth I agree with Maxwatt. I think it and the omega 3 oils are very promising and if it was me, I would definitely use them and have voiced my opinion but TFI feels that since his funds are limited he wants to go with more proven supplements.

"Proven supplements" or "popular supplements" at the ImmInst.org forum at this instant in time?

I respectfully suggest that there could be a difference. I respectfully suggest that anyone who says that Boswellia is less "proven" than Resveratrol in human studies of disease prevention hasn't looked seriously at the literature on Boswellia.

I'm not bad mouthing Resveratrol. I take Resveratrol.

But the stakes seem awfully high to me in this case to make the assumption that the "most proven" is always the "most popular".

I again agree with you totally. With me you are preaching to the choir. But people have to be their own counsel when they're sick because a big part of the cure is believing the medicine. So if he's not inclined to believe it, it's better for him to go with something he believes in. Don't take it personally.

[thefirstimmortal]

Wccaguy post 176
William,

I DID spend time trying to help and I think the message I tried to communicate didn't get through.

I understand that your trying to help, and your efforts have not been in vain. Adding to the knowledge base great value importance. Just because your pic may not make the first cut, doesn’t mean that it won’t make it in the near future. I have to roll with the items that have already been tried and true. When I get caught up on the site, I want to recount how my tumor-the-size-of-a-softball nearly dematerialized. On my own I got a malignant tumor to almost disappears from a CT-scan like a glitch from a radar screen.

You need to be taking Boswellia. I understood Maxwatt to say that Boswellia was on the short list upthread.

I don’t recall the post. I did find that list however; I have a similar item that is spelled different. I have Boswella, did I spell it wrong?

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=254126

I don't see how you could have looked at the Boswellia thread I've been updating every day for the last few days and still decide NOT to take it.

I simply don’t have the resources to order everything that looks promising, again, I have to select for the first line of defense the products that have already proved effective.

I'm not upset and trying to make you feel bad. I understand that it must be difficult to focus on everything. I'm just trying to get your attention.

I understand that, and yes, it’s hard to keep up with all the data. But I still want it all flowing in. Better to have more information, not less.
Thank you for your efforts, and don’t get discourage just because I may not chose Boswellia on these very few first pick. You have got my attention on this.

Live Long and Well Wccaguy.

[thefirstimmortal]

I just wanted to nudge you again about looking at Boswellia because, if you looked at it sooner rather than later, I think you'd be happy you did.

Nudging me is an important thing to do. If it were not for Missminni nudging me, I would be further behind the eightball than I am right now
Stay on top of this, don't be afraid to bring it to my attention again.

[thefirstimmortal]

If 15 grams did that I would cut back. Maybe to 12. Right in between. Mild laxative effect I believe is a sign your taking too much. However, if you want to continue at that dosage, remember MaxWatts amazing recipe for diahhrea and it works....8 oz of water a 2 tsp of sugar and 1/4 tsp of salt. It takes care of it immediately.

I'm going to stay with 15. Those effects will go away in a few days as my body adjusts. Plus, I'm not eating solid food right now, and won't be for another day or 2.

[thefirstimmortal]

Mygenus post 116

To say that I was surprised by the lukewarm response from the community to this member's plight would be an understatement.

I have some commentary on this, because I partially share this view. But I would like to make a distinction, if by community, you mean the organization, I tend to agree. They have been at best neglecting the issue, and being non-responsive. Individual leaders have helped, but not in the capacity as part of the organization. Shepard reached into his personal wallet and gave shortly after you started the ball rolling. Shannon has put much effort in, but again, of her own personal choosing, not really at the direction of the organization. The employee Mind offered advice, and forgive me if I have forgotten anyone else who may be a leader and offered help.

But, WOW, look at the response from the individual members, You, Missminni, Mixter the annoyomous donor, Anthony, Subzero, Banea and the many posters posting volumes, so much that I’m having problems digesting it all. The response of the community so far have exceeded my wildest expectations.

What most surprises me is that to those with whom I invested enormous amounts of time and energy over the years have been silent. Those who have stood up to help so far have been those to whom I devoted the least of my self, and in some instances people I haven’t even communicated with at all.

[thefirstimmortal]

Mygenus post 116

When so much effort is placed on the discussion of anti-aging, fighting death, etc. and here is an individual who has only a handful of months or possibly weeks left of life yet we are on the bleeding edge of knowledge and in contact with some of the worlds foremost researchers on aging and particularly cancer treatment.

Unfortunately, knowledge alone won’t get us there without action.

I refer to Professor Cui and his upcoming cancer treatment trial. Cui was recently a speaker at an event sponsored by his organization. Has enough been done to help get FirstImmortal into this program? Cui sounds like he is more interested in saving lives rather than making the statistics stack up for his research.

I think the better question is, “has anything been done.” I believe the answer is no. While I know I don’t qualify for the trail, if we can get this on some compassionate use deal, I’m all for it. I had considered making such a request myself, but I thought the leaders here would have used their influence to make that a smooth road. They have all the right contacts, I don’t. Happily there is another organization with close ties to these individuals, and I will be pursuing that. His work does look promising enough that I would roll the dice on his therapy.

[thefirstimmortal]

Benae post 117

As a two month old member my opinion is probably not worth much but here goes anyway.

A fresh perspective is always usefull.

Thank you Mygenus and Missminni for speaking the mind of perhaps a few others. I do know that some members have been in touch with thefirstimmortal privately. Missminni, Mixter, Mygenus, Shepard and an anonymous resveratrol donor. Perhaps others that I am not aware so forgive me. However, my perception of the lack of member compassion for the most part has made me doubt my interest in Imminst. Is this just a community of leechers? I was so excited to find this forum and now I question the integrity here as demonstrated by the lack of moral responsibility.

Benae, much like my response to Mygenus, I believe you might be confusing the organizations general lack of interest with the members. Again, I am inspired by the members (community) support, not to be confused with the Imminst lack of response.

I don’t question any of the leaders integrity here, and as for their moral responsibility, if you are referring to my current plight, I don’t think they have any responsibility to bail me out of a mess I got myself into. Where I do take issue however, is the general lack of response to my requests and inquiries. That troubles me deeply and I’ll site examples of this in another post.

Help me understand why a community so interested in LIFE appears to be unconnected from a long-standing member and contributor who is struggling for his LIFE! Have I missed something?

Yes Benae, as you are a new member here, you may not be familiar with my history with leadership here. I will give you a fair rounded picture so this won’t be a mystery to you. I have often been in opposition with the leadership here. I have been combative in offering resistance to leadership, which has aroused animosity. I have been antagonistic to leaders here to the point that it has tended to annoy them and cause ill will on their behalf. For an example, hit the link below and read the thread “Free” the Free Speech Forum. I will in the future site other examples, or you could just stick around for a while. I’m sure the opportunity for new examples will present themselves at sometime in the future. Possibly the near future.

That thread, let me know what your take on this thread is Benae.
http://www.imminst.o...o...c=22849&hl=

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 01 August 2008 - 02:40 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Maxwatt, I am currently taking my res in the following manner. First thing in the morning I boil water and pour it in a large teacup with 2 green tea bags, Salada 100% green tea, 195 mg natural antioxidants per tea bag, I cool the tea to no greater than 105 degrees and then add cream. I find that it dissolves well, but doesn’t suspend well which isn’t a problem. I simply stir the tea before each sip and no residue is left at the bottom of the cup. I lick the drag knife and spoon to make sure nothing goes to waste. Is there any problem with this delivery method? I repeat again at 2pm to 3pm, and again at 8pm or 9pm.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 01 August 2008 - 02:41 AM.

[maxwatt]

Maxwatt, I am currently taking my res in the following manner. First thing in the morning I boil water and pour it in a large teacup with 2 green tea bags, Salada 100% green tea, 195 mg natural antioxidants per tea bag, I cool the tea to no greater than 105 degrees and then add cream. I find that it dissolves well, but doesn’t suspend well which isn’t a problem. I simply stir the tea before each sip and no residue is left at the bottom of the cup. I lick the drag knife and spoon to make sure nothing goes to waste. Is there any problem with this delivery method? I repeat again at 2pm to 3pm, and again at 8pm or 9pm.

The cream would be acting to dissolve the resveratrol, I think. If you let it cool to 105 F before adding the resveratrol, I do not think ther\\e will be significant degradation. This may be the same as taking resveratrol with cream (or other milk product in terms of effectiveness, or something more may be happening: tea acts as an emulsifier, resveratrol dissolves in fat, and tea will make the fat in cream miscible (dissolve in ) with the tea water.

I've not tried this combination. I think it would work, but I've not tested it. It might be more effective with tea and cream than with just a milk-product. Or not. I rather think you are getting a sufficient dose this way, particularly if your are taking 15 grams. The quantity alone would tend to overwhelm any inefficiencies in the method. (I've some ice tea in the 'fridge. What will happen if I add a little res? or res and milk?.....)

[thefirstimmortal]

I've tried dissolving it with cantaloupe juice, oranges run through a juicer and pineapple juice. Seems like cold products or at least cold juice it just does not dissolve as good, and sticks to the side of the glass. We don’t want to lose a molecule of it, so I’ve been sticking with the tea.

Maxwatt, I am currently taking my res in the following manner. First thing in the morning I boil water and pour it in a large teacup with 2 green tea bags, Salada 100% green tea, 195 mg natural antioxidants per tea bag, I cool the tea to no greater than 105 degrees and then add cream. I find that it dissolves well, but doesn’t suspend well which isn’t a problem. I simply stir the tea before each sip and no residue is left at the bottom of the cup. I lick the drag knife and spoon to make sure nothing goes to waste. Is there any problem with this delivery method? I repeat again at 2pm to 3pm, and again at 8pm or 9pm.

The cream would be acting to dissolve the resveratrol, I think. If you let it cool to 105 F before adding the resveratrol, I do not think ther\\e will be significant degradation. This may be the same as taking resveratrol with cream (or other milk product in terms of effectiveness, or something more may be happening: tea acts as an emulsifier, resveratrol dissolves in fat, and tea will make the fat in cream miscible (dissolve in ) with the tea water.

I've not tried this combination. I think it would work, but I've not tested it. It might be more effective with tea and cream than with just a milk-product. Or not. I rather think you are getting a sufficient dose this way, particularly if your are taking 15 grams. The quantity alone would tend to overwhelm any inefficiencies in the method. (I've some ice tea in the 'fridge. What will happen if I add a little res? or res and milk?.....)

[thefirstimmortal]

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 01 August 2008 - 05:46 AM.

[missminni]

[maxwatt]

I've tried dissolving it with cantaloupe juice, oranges run through a juicer and pineapple juice. Seems like cold products or at least cold juice it just does not dissolve as good, and sticks to the side of the glass. We don’t want to lose a molecule of it, so I’ve been sticking with the tea.

Maxwatt, I am currently taking my res in the following manner. First thing in the morning I boil water and pour it in a large teacup with 2 green tea bags, Salada 100% green tea, 195 mg natural antioxidants per tea bag, I cool the tea to no greater than 105 degrees and then add cream. I find that it dissolves well, but doesn’t suspend well which isn’t a problem. I simply stir the tea before each sip and no residue is left at the bottom of the cup. I lick the drag knife and spoon to make sure nothing goes to waste. Is there any problem with this delivery method? I repeat again at 2pm to 3pm, and again at 8pm or 9pm.

The cream would be acting to dissolve the resveratrol, I think. If you let it cool to 105 F before adding the resveratrol, I do not think ther\\e will be significant degradation. This may be the same as taking resveratrol with cream (or other milk product in terms of effectiveness, or something more may be happening: tea acts as an emulsifier, resveratrol dissolves in fat, and tea will make the fat in cream miscible (dissolve in ) with the tea water.

I've not tried this combination. I think it would work, but I've not tested it. It might be more effective with tea and cream than with just a milk-product. Or not. I rather think you are getting a sufficient dose this way, particularly if your are taking 15 grams. The quantity alone would tend to overwhelm any inefficiencies in the method. (I've some ice tea in the 'fridge. What will happen if I add a little res? or res and milk?.....)

I tried dissolving some resveratrol in green tea: a small amount dissolved, when adding a larger amount it was dispersed, making a cloudy suspension. However, it became saturated with larger amounts. I do not think tea alone will be suitable to administer large doses, but adding a milk-product, such as cream, should make an effective delivery mechanism.

FWIW, that you are noticing physiological effects would indicate some degree of absorption.

[Lazarus Long]

I apologize for not commenting sooner on this topic but I have been away from my computer for most of the last month and half, not to mention away from the site. Bill you are often in my thoughts and I am working to make some more resources available to you but I would rather not treat them as *official*.

There is a great difference between the institutional abilities of this organization and the community's abilities, however the institution can help the community in these efforts. I will try to convince leadership to have the announcement you have created Missimmi posted or linked to our front page if it hasn't been done already.

I encourage all members and registered users to remember that it is in times like these when we can demonstrate our willingness to help one another in our very personal struggles against death.

Bill I will discuss a few other ideas with you in person but I am proud of how so many in this community have come together to provide support to you, I just wish it were under happier circumstances.

[thefirstimmortal]

I tried dissolving some resveratrol in green tea: a small amount dissolved, when adding a larger amount it was dispersed, making a cloudy suspension. However, it became saturated with larger amounts. I do not think tea alone will be suitable to administer large doses, but adding a milk-product, such as cream, should make an effective delivery mechanism.

Tea alone does't work well, the cream does help.

FWIW, that you are noticing physiological effects would indicate some degree of absorption.

If tthat means it working, that's worth a lot.

[thefirstimmortal]

I apologize for not commenting sooner on this topic but I have been away from my computer for most of the last month and half, not to mention away from the site.

I knew that, that's why I called you up.

Bill you are often in my thoughts

Thank You Laz.

There is a great difference between the institutional abilities of this organization and the community's abilities, however the institution can help the community in these efforts. I will try to convince leadership to have the announcement you have created Missimmi posted or linked to our front page if it hasn't been done already.

While I appreciate the thought Laz, I would rather you didn't try to convince leadership to do anything at this point. In fact, I would rather just pull the whole request at this point, because it's been a source of frustration.

Bill I will discuss a few other ideas with you in person…

I’ll give you a call.

[missminni]

Dear friends and members who want to help thefirstimmortal fight cancer,
Presently the only weapons in his arsenal are a bottle of LEF mix with 250mg of Res, and the kilo of resveratol from the anonymous one. There is a months supply of Vitamin C and a two month supply of Dhea on the way courtesy of Sub-Zero
but I am unaware of any others that are being sent.
He doesn't have any other vitamins. He could use any and all of them as well
as other supplements we all take regularly. To link to each one, or to even itemize
at this point is too complicated to be effective. If you could pick a vitamin or supplement that you would like to send and then just post as to what it was to avoid doubling up...of course he needs three months supplies, so doubling up might be necessary in some cases...it would let others know what to send. Post it on the wish list link
His address is provided for shipping.
Whatever one can afford to send would be more than appreciated.
Please have it shipped to
William O'Rights
79 Hussey Hill Road
Acton Maine 04001

So many have expressed the desire to help in his fight. Here's an opportunity to do so. His victory will belong to all of us. He just needs the arsenal to go to battle.
the wish list link

Edited by missminni, 01 August 2008 - 03:58 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Barbara, I was inspired by your PM. You said your heart aches, but it need not Barbara. I’ve had the most marvelous life. Twelve years ago I got into a near fatal motorcycle accident, the infinite order of the universe could have ended all for me right then and there, smothered in my own blood. Since then, I have been stabbed, robbed at gunpoint, betrayed by a life long friend, had my wealth seized, lost my home and been incarcerated. And now I have terminal cancer, with a prognosis of a few months to live.

But you know Barbara, I wouldn’t have had it any other way. Remove any of these items from my physical/psychological resume and you diminish in quantum leaps the richness of the fabric that has been my life. My joy hasn’t been in spite of but because of these itemized events.

Live Long and Well

[thefirstimmortal]

Bill I will discuss a few other ideas with you in person but I am proud of how so many in this community have come together to provide support to you, I just wish it were under happier circumstances.

Now Laz, what makes you think these are unhappy circumstances? Aren’t we all Life Extensionists/Immortalists here on an infinite journey?

Some people like skydiving, river rafting, climbing mountains and racing, brings a little risk, a little sense of adventure, into their lives. However, with cancer, the stakes are a bit higher. If you fall off the raft, life goes on. But if your tumor keeps growing and spreading, life does not go on. Do or die. You know Laz this is definitely going to be an adventure. If you think skydiving, auto racing, rafting, and mountain climbing is thrilling, you haven’t tried curing yourself of the ‘‘incurable’’.

If you want real danger, real risk, forget about climbing mountains, jumping from planes, rafting the few remaining wild rivers, and start changing the chemistry of your blood in the laboratory of your kitchen. This involves a thrill that can bring terror to the stoutest of hearts. No parachutes, no ropes, no exotic, expensive paraphernalia, no “experts” to guide you. Yeah, just me and my friends here taking a journey into the center of my cells, down the infinite river of my blood stream.

These don’t have to be unhappy circumstances Laz, I know I’m certainly not miserable. I’m having the adventure of a lifetime. I can’t imagine anything will ever be as exciting as the journey I am currently on.

Your Eternal Friend
William O’Rights
The First Immortal

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 01 August 2008 - 03:49 PM.

[missminni]

Bill I will discuss a few other ideas with you in person but I am proud of how so many in this community have come together to provide support to you, I just wish it were under happier circumstances.

Now Laz, what makes you think these are unhappy circumstances? Aren’t we all Life Extensionists/Immortalists here on an infinite journey?

Some people like skydiving, river rafting, climbing mountains and racing, brings a little risk, a little sense of adventure, into their lives. However, with cancer, the stakes are a bit higher. If you fall off the raft, life goes on. But if your tumor keeps growing and spreading, life does not go on. Do or die. You know Laz this is definitely going to be an adventure. If you think skydiving, auto racing, rafting, and mountain climbing is thrilling, you haven’t tried curing yourself of the ‘‘incurable’’.

If you want real danger, real risk, forget about climbing mountains, jumping from planes, rafting the few remaining wild rivers, and start changing the chemistry of your blood in the laboratory of your kitchen. This involves a thrill that can bring terror to the stoutest of hearts. No parachutes, no ropes, no exotic, expensive paraphernalia, no “experts” to guide you. Yeah, just me and my friends here taking a journey into the center of my cells, down the infinite river of my blood stream.

These don’t have to be unhappy circumstances Laz, I know I’m certainly not miserable. I’m having the adventure of a lifetime. I can’t imagine anything will ever be as exciting as the journey I am currently on.

Your Eternal Friend
William O’Rights
The First Immortal

You are so going to get better. You have the perfect attitude. You are a winner and you will win this battle and be stronger for it.

[thefirstimmortal]

Resveratrol--influences cancer at initiation, promotion, and progression stages.

Resveratrol was effective against cancer during all three phases of the cancer process: initiation, promotion, and progression. Resveratrol displayed antimutagenic and antioxidant activity, providing greater protection against DNA damage than vitamins C, E, or beta-carotene. Resveratrol restored glutathione levels, considered by some as the most essential of antioxidants.

MaxWatt, Glutathione was part of my first effort to combat the tumor. What effect do you think 15g has on glutathione levels. Or in other words, does that amount of res render adding glutathione a moot point?

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 01 August 2008 - 04:41 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Maxwatt, I stumbled on these tid bits...

Resveratrol significantly reduced tumor volume (42%), tumor weight (44%), and metastasis (56%) in mice with highly metastatic Lewis lung carcinoma. Resveratrol was able to inhibit angiogenesis and reduce oxidative stress

Resveratrol inhibits NF-kB, thus inhibiting cell proliferation and cytokine production (Gao et al. 2001). The inhibition of cytokine production by resveratrol was found to be irreversible.

If using pure resveratrol, the suggested dosage is 7-50 mg a day.

Does that small of a dose really have an effect in your opinion? Or is it in the words of DukeNukem a "Pitifully low amount"?

[thefirstimmortal]

The selenium may be an overdose. Ideally you want 130-150 ng/ml. 237 mcg/day (37 from diet according to CRON-o-Meter, 200 from a SeMC supplement) gave me 150 ng/ml. The average American diet yields 106 mcg/day, so most people would need less than 200 mcg.

Selenium--is protective against many types of cancers, promotes apoptosis, is a powerful antioxidant, and improves quality of life during aggressive cancer therapies

The impact of selenium supplementation on basal cell carcinoma was studied on 1312 subjects (18-80 years of age, 75% of whom were men) (Clark et al. 1996). Within 6-9 months, the group receiving 200 mcg a day of selenium realized about a 67% increase in plasma selenium levels. The non-supplemented group, although judged "normal" in regard to plasma selenium levels, experienced twice the rate of cancer as those receiving selenium. Researchers concluded that higher amounts of dietary selenium than the amount recommended by the FDA are needed to prevent cancer.

Although the study failed to show the effectiveness of selenium in altering the course of either basal or squamous cell carcinoma, selenium impacted the incidence of other types of malignancies with amazing success. The overall reduction in cancer incidence was 37% in the selenium-supplemented group; a 50% reduction in cancer mortality was observed over a 10-year period (Clark et al. 1996).

The following are the site-specific reductions in cancer incidence observed in the study: colorectal cancers (58%), lung cancer (46%), and prostate cancer (63%). A selenium deficiency appears to increase the risk of prostate cancer four- to five-fold. It was determined that as the male population ages selenium levels decrease, paralleling an increase in prostate cancer (Brooks et al. 2001).

[stephen_b]

MaxWatt, Glutathione was part of my first effort to combat the tumor. What effect do you think 15g has on glutathione levels. Or in other words, does that amount of res render adding glutathione a moot point?

Here's my two cents on glutathione: it doesn't seem to have great oral bioavailablity at all. I've been taking glisodin, which is claimed to be much more bioavailable.

Glisodin is a cantaloupe melon extract rich in vegetal superoxide dismutase (SOD) covered by polymeric films of wheat matrix gliadin. This is the only proven orally effective delivery of SOD.

The claims for this substance are far reaching. I wish the level of interest on it were higher on the supplements board, as it would seem to have far reaching implications.

Stephen

[maxwatt]

Maxwatt, I stumbled on these tid bits...

Resveratrol significantly reduced tumor volume (42%), tumor weight (44%), and metastasis (56%) in mice with highly metastatic Lewis lung carcinoma. Resveratrol was able to inhibit angiogenesis and reduce oxidative stress

Resveratrol inhibits NF-kB, thus inhibiting cell proliferation and cytokine production (Gao et al. 2001). The inhibition of cytokine production by resveratrol was found to be irreversible.

If using pure resveratrol, the suggested dosage is 7-50 mg a day.

Does that small of a dose really have an effect in your opinion? Or is it in the words of DukeNukem a "Pitifully low amount"?

Re: glutathione-- I think it is irrelevant at this point.

I would need to read the study you are quoting from, but it seems this dose was for mice, at up to 50 mg a day. I think a human equivalent dose would be at least several grams.

[thefirstimmortal]

OK, this post probably doesn't belong here, but I promised to respond last week in cold filter to a post. I want to put it somewhere, and I seem to be here a lot, so, hope nobody minds.


Undertoad wrote
Not questioning his integrity, but if he's such a cryonics supporter, how come he hasn't been signed up for years? Why wasn't he "able to get his suspension funded at CI?"

Thefirstimmortal writes
Unfortunately I have become the poster boy for paralysis of analysis. I joined CI because it’s no debt policy and sound business practices, but I didn’t like the contract and wanted to have it changed. Now, let me say this about the contract, because it has been a few years since I took a hard look at it. My recollection was that it was an excellent contract as far as protecting CI. I don’t know who drafted it, but it really offered some bulletproof protection for CI. But as a customer I wanted to make some changes to the document. Then I started reviewing all of the paperwork, and wanted to read the whole over 20,000 posts at cryonet. I started taking data and notes on such things as
Autopsy, Religious objection
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=4571&hl=
There were issues with different freezing methods employed

Cryonics straight freeze and vitro, Problems with freezing methods.
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=4621&hl=

And of course, I had to pause to take some time helping on the whole stump bill issue
Do,,, or Die...The War on Immortality, Call to arms, Stump Bill
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=3153&hl=


And of course I had to get those lovely cryonics Quotes.
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=4598&hl=
And for those not checking the links, I would like to point out the very first quote I found was a quote from Robert Ettinger which ironically states “But don't let indecision paralyze you. It is sometimes more important to be decisive than to be "right." After all, if you join one organization and later decide you made a mistake, it's probably not a big deal. You don't tie up a lot of money by joining. Delay can cost you everything--and has done so
in the past for many people.
Yeah, How’s that for prophesy.

I wanted to study other legal issues like
RIGHT TO CONTROL DISPOSITION OF REMAINS
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=4590&hl=

LIVING WILLS AND HEALTH CARE DIRECTIVES
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=4591&hl=

UNIFORM ANATOMICAL GIFT ACT
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=4589&hl=

Cryonics, Legal notes
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=2488&hl=

Legal Notes, Property in a corpse..........????, Right to direct disposal of one's body
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=3301&hl=

Defining Death, Case notes
http://www.imminst.o...o...ic=3213&hl=

Yeah, I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Is this a satisfactory answer???

Live Long and Well

[krillin]

The selenium may be an overdose. Ideally you want 130-150 ng/ml. 237 mcg/day (37 from diet according to CRON-o-Meter, 200 from a SeMC supplement) gave me 150 ng/ml. The average American diet yields 106 mcg/day, so most people would need less than 200 mcg.

Selenium--is protective against many types of cancers, promotes apoptosis, is a powerful antioxidant, and improves quality of life during aggressive cancer therapies

The impact of selenium supplementation on basal cell carcinoma was studied on 1312 subjects (18-80 years of age, 75% of whom were men) (Clark et al. 1996). Within 6-9 months, the group receiving 200 mcg a day of selenium realized about a 67% increase in plasma selenium levels. The non-supplemented group, although judged "normal" in regard to plasma selenium levels, experienced twice the rate of cancer as those receiving selenium. Researchers concluded that higher amounts of dietary selenium than the amount recommended by the FDA are needed to prevent cancer.

Although the study failed to show the effectiveness of selenium in altering the course of either basal or squamous cell carcinoma, selenium impacted the incidence of other types of malignancies with amazing success. The overall reduction in cancer incidence was 37% in the selenium-supplemented group; a 50% reduction in cancer mortality was observed over a 10-year period (Clark et al. 1996).

The following are the site-specific reductions in cancer incidence observed in the study: colorectal cancers (58%), lung cancer (46%), and prostate cancer (63%). A selenium deficiency appears to increase the risk of prostate cancer four- to five-fold. It was determined that as the male population ages selenium levels decrease, paralleling an increase in prostate cancer (Brooks et al. 2001).

That looks like LEF propaganda. They either don't understand the concept of U-curves, or withhold the information because it would be bad for business. When you break down the supplemented subjects into tertiles of baseline plasma selenium, those with the lowest selenium did best and those with the highest selenium did worst. They didn't break down the supplemented blood levels by tertile, so I had to estimate it and decided that for best results we should not exceed 175 ng/ml. PMID 18299496's analysis of different data says to keep it between 130 and 150 ng/ml. Since you don't have time to titrate yourself, use my result as a guide. Add up your dietary selenium and supplement enough to bring your total intake to no more than 237 mcg/day.

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1285-91.
Selenium supplementation and lung cancer incidence: an update of the nutritional prevention of cancer trial.
Reid ME, Duffield-Lillico AJ, Garland L, Turnbull BW, Clark LC, Marshall JR.
Roswell Park Cancer Institute, Buffalo, NY 14263, USA. mary.reid@roswellpark.org

Interest in the chemopreventive effects of the trace element selenium has spanned the past three decades. Of >100 studies that have investigated the effects of selenium in carcinogen-exposed animals, two-thirds have observed a reduction in tumor incidence and/or preneoplastic endpoints (G. F. Combs and S. B. Combs, The Role of Selenium in Nutrition Chapter 10, pp. 413-462. San Diego, CA: Academic Press, 1986, and B. H. Patterson and O. A. Levander, Cancer Epidemiol. Biomark. Prev., 6: 63-69, 1997). The Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Trial, a randomized clinical trial reported by Clark et al. (L. C. Clark et al., JAMA, 276: 1957-1963, 1996), showed as a secondary end point, a statistically significant decrease in lung cancer incidence with selenium supplementation. The adjusted hazard ratio (HR) was 0.56 [95% confidence interval (CI), 0.31-1.01; P = 0.05]. These results were based on active follow-up of 1312 participants. This reanalysis used an extended Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Trial participant follow-up through the end of the blinded clinical trial on February 1, 1996. The additional 3 years added 8 cases to the selenium-treated group and 4 cases to the placebo group, and increased follow-up to 7.9 years. The relative risk of 0.70 (95% CI, 0.40-1.21; P = 0.18) is not statistically significant. Whereas the overall adjusted HR is not significant (HR = 0.74; 95% CI, 0.44-1.24; P = 0.26), and the HR for current and former smokers was not significant, the trend is toward a reduction in risk of incident lung cancer with selenium supplementation. In a subgroup analysis there was a nominally significant HR among subjects with baseline plasma selenium in the lowest tertile (HR = 0.42; 95% CI, 0.18-0.96; P = 0.04). The analysis for the middle and highest tertiles of baseline showed HRs of 0.91 and 1.25. The current reanalysis indicates that selenium supplementation did not significantly decrease lung cancer incidence in the full population, but a significant decrease among individuals with low baseline selenium concentrations was observed.

PMID: 12433704