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Arginine: Natural Growth Hormone Stimulator?


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#1 j03

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 06:58 AM


Has anyone had experience with Arginine? What's the impact of growth hormone production? Anyone have any anecdotal evidence, aswell and published peer-reviewed studies?

I figured this is the best forum for responses. Also, is there any other natural HGH simulators that are on the market and work?

All comments appreciated

#2 kismet

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:44 PM

All comments appreciated

Just an initial question, do you want to live long? Or do you want to (possibly) sacrifice longevity for some (possible) benefits of growth hormone?

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#3 wydell

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:23 PM

In my teens, I took arginine and ornothine because it was promoted as muscle building. I am a good 5 inches taller than my immediate family members. I am not sure that arginine or ornothine had anything to do with that, but who knows.

On the flip side, in later years, I did take APGL, Arginine Pyroglutamate Lysine. There are loads of websites promoting one study claiming a 700% increase in GH. I never really notice an effect. In fact, I still have a bottle or two of it in my house. It tastes horrible.

I just do sprints, lift and meditate (natural gaba release) as a GH strategy.


Has anyone had experience with Arginine? What's the impact of growth hormone production? Anyone have any anecdotal evidence, aswell and published peer-reviewed studies?

I figured this is the best forum for responses. Also, is there any other natural HGH simulators that are on the market and work?

All comments appreciated



#4 j03

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 08:14 PM

All comments appreciated

Just an initial question, do you want to live long? Or do you want to (possibly) sacrifice longevity for some (possible) benefits of growth hormone?



How are you sacrificing longevity by using Arginine or HGH? Source any claims.

Edited by j033, 28 February 2009 - 08:44 PM.


#5 kismet

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 08:46 PM

All comments appreciated

Just an initial question, do you want to live long? Or do you want to (possibly) sacrifice longevity for some (possible) benefits of growth hormone?



How are you sacrificing longevity by using Arginine or HGH? Source any claims.

This was a yes or no question, it's not that difficult.  :)
I'll get back to your request tomorrow, though.

#6 kismet

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 08:16 PM

All comments appreciated

Just an initial question, do you want to live long? Or do you want to (possibly) sacrifice longevity for some (possible) benefits of growth hormone?



How are you sacrificing longevity by using Arginine or HGH? Source any claims.

This was a yes or no question, it's not that difficult.  :)
I'll get back to your request tomorrow, though.

I do like to source my claims whenever I provide some new or revolutionary insight, but the IGF-1 story is pretty old actually (and I have repeatedly written referenced responses on this topic).

We know that the GH/IGF-1 axis is of utmost importance to growth, obviously, but also to life span [1] (which is interrelated with growth). We know that growth hormone deprived animals tend to live longer and Dr. Bartke's impressive GHR -/- mice (the pendant of Laron dwarfism in mice) have proven themselves as the longest lived species of lab mice. [1][2]
Dr. Zvi Laron - and as I have recently discoverd Aubrey also - hypothesised, based on case-reports of (human) sufferers of Laron dwarfism, that growth hormone deficiency may slow down aging in humans. [3]
Don't forget inhibition of IGF-1 release has shown some, albeit limited if I remember correctly, promise as a cancer treatment. So it's not that far off to hypothesise what an increase would do.

Additionally all or most of the alleged benefits of growth hormone (although, in this case we are talking high doses and s.c. injections!) are completely hypothetical at this moment, because there's no evidence from controlled trials to support such claims in contrast to anabolic steroids, for instance.
Sorry if I quote the conclusion of a review which I have not yet read (but wanted to read for quite some time): "Claims that growth hormone enhances physical performance are not supported by the scientific literature. Although the limited available evidence suggests that growth hormone increases lean body mass, it may not improve strength; in addition, it may worsen exercise capacity and increase adverse events. More research is needed to conclusively determine the effects of growth hormone on athletic performance." [4]

I think I am spot on saying: "Do you want to trade the (possible) loss in longevity against (possibly) increased fitness and performance?" ... and you still have not answered my simple "yes" or "no" question.  :)
I know there are many benefits to physiologic growth hormone levels (and hGH hormone replacement therapy may have some merit) and probably some limited benefits to supraphysiologic levels, but that is not up for discussion, I just wanted to point out the risks.

[1] Growth Horm IGF Res. 2008 Dec;18(6):455-71. Epub 2008 Aug 16.
Role of the GH/IGF-1 axis in lifespan and healthspan: lessons from animal models.
Berryman DE, Christiansen JS, Johannsson G, Thorner MO, Kopchick JJ.
[2] Curr Top Dev Biol. 2004;63:189-225.
Life extension in the dwarf mouse.
Bartke A, Brown-Borg H.
Or visit the mfoundation: http://www.mprize.or...p_recordholders
[3] The GH-IGF1 axis and longevity. The paradigm of IGF1 deficiency. 2008
Zvi Laron
http://hormones.gr/p...ew.php?c_id=204
[4]  Ann Intern Med. 2008 May 20;148(10):747-58. Epub 2008 Mar 17.
Systematic review: the effects of growth hormone on athletic performance.
Liu H, Bravata DM, Olkin I, Friedlander A, Liu V, Roberts B, Bendavid E, Saynina O, Salpeter SR, Garber AM, Hoffman AR.

Edited by kismet, 01 March 2009 - 08:20 PM.


#7 nameless

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 09:30 PM

High IGF-1 bad or good? I have read conflicting studies.

Like this one:
Hormone May Hold Key To Helping Elderly Men Live Longer

http://www.scienceda...80527084252.htm

#8 fatboy

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 10:59 PM

High IGF-1 bad or good? I have read conflicting studies.

Like this one:
Hormone May Hold Key To Helping Elderly Men Live Longer

http://www.scienceda...80527084252.htm



It's great if you're an older gent blessed with high natural levels. But if you're not so blessed, this is like my hypogonadal buddies trying to convince me to raise my testosterone levels to the upper reference quartile exogenously because studies show that old men with the highest levels of endogenous testosterone live longer. I didn't buy it then and I ain't buying it now. Those dudes just got better mortality genetics. Getting my labs to match theirs don't buy me the genes.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop taking the testosterone medication, though. But neither am I in any rush to raise my IGF-1. Hell, I'm on metformin, it could very well be counterproductive to my cause.

#9 wydell

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 02:10 AM

I will answer your question even though it was not directed at me.

The answer is yes, if it is a small trade off. For example, I would rather be muscular and live to 80, then to be somewhat frail and live to 83. If I would lose 30 years, then the answer would be no, for certain.


All comments appreciated

Just an initial question, do you want to live long? Or do you want to (possibly) sacrifice longevity for some (possible) benefits of growth hormone?



How are you sacrificing longevity by using Arginine or HGH? Source any claims.

This was a yes or no question, it's not that difficult.  :)
I'll get back to your request tomorrow, though.

I do like to source my claims whenever I provide some new or revolutionary insight, but the IGF-1 story is pretty old actually (and I have repeatedly written referenced responses on this topic).

We know that the GH/IGF-1 axis is of utmost importance to growth, obviously, but also to life span [1] (which is interrelated with growth). We know that growth hormone deprived animals tend to live longer and Dr. Bartke's impressive GHR -/- mice (the pendant of Laron dwarfism in mice) have proven themselves as the longest lived species of lab mice. [1][2]
Dr. Zvi Laron - and as I have recently discoverd Aubrey also - hypothesised, based on case-reports of (human) sufferers of Laron dwarfism, that growth hormone deficiency may slow down aging in humans. [3]
Don't forget inhibition of IGF-1 release has shown some, albeit limited if I remember correctly, promise as a cancer treatment. So it's not that far off to hypothesise what an increase would do.

Additionally all or most of the alleged benefits of growth hormone (although, in this case we are talking high doses and s.c. injections!) are completely hypothetical at this moment, because there's no evidence from controlled trials to support such claims in contrast to anabolic steroids, for instance.
Sorry if I quote the conclusion of a review which I have not yet read (but wanted to read for quite some time): "Claims that growth hormone enhances physical performance are not supported by the scientific literature. Although the limited available evidence suggests that growth hormone increases lean body mass, it may not improve strength; in addition, it may worsen exercise capacity and increase adverse events. More research is needed to conclusively determine the effects of growth hormone on athletic performance." [4]

I think I am spot on saying: "Do you want to trade the (possible) loss in longevity against (possibly) increased fitness and performance?" ... and you still have not answered my simple "yes" or "no" question.  :)
I know there are many benefits to physiologic growth hormone levels (and hGH hormone replacement therapy may have some merit) and probably some limited benefits to supraphysiologic levels, but that is not up for discussion, I just wanted to point out the risks.

[1] Growth Horm IGF Res. 2008 Dec;18(6):455-71. Epub 2008 Aug 16.
Role of the GH/IGF-1 axis in lifespan and healthspan: lessons from animal models.
Berryman DE, Christiansen JS, Johannsson G, Thorner MO, Kopchick JJ.
[2] Curr Top Dev Biol. 2004;63:189-225.
Life extension in the dwarf mouse.
Bartke A, Brown-Borg H.
Or visit the mfoundation: http://www.mprize.or...p_recordholders
[3] The GH-IGF1 axis and longevity. The paradigm of IGF1 deficiency. 2008
Zvi Laron
http://hormones.gr/p...ew.php?c_id=204
[4]  Ann Intern Med. 2008 May 20;148(10):747-58. Epub 2008 Mar 17.
Systematic review: the effects of growth hormone on athletic performance.
Liu H, Bravata DM, Olkin I, Friedlander A, Liu V, Roberts B, Bendavid E, Saynina O, Salpeter SR, Garber AM, Hoffman AR.



#10 HaloTeK

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 06:50 AM

All comments appreciated

Just an initial question, do you want to live long? Or do you want to (possibly) sacrifice longevity for some (possible) benefits of growth hormone?


Interesting, I had the same hypothesis a couple of years back.

#11 amere

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 01:25 AM

Has anyone had experience with Arginine? What's the impact of growth hormone production? Anyone have any anecdotal evidence, aswell and published peer-reviewed studies?

I figured this is the best forum for responses. Also, is there any other natural HGH simulators that are on the market and work?

All comments appreciated



I dimly recall reading that about a third of people don't respond to arginine/ornithine/lysine stimulation of GH. Does that even add up to 2 cents?

#12 nowayout

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 02:45 PM

Has anyone had experience with Arginine? What's the impact of growth hormone production? Anyone have any anecdotal evidence, aswell and published peer-reviewed studies?


The following study indicates a compelling reason not to take arginine. It strongly suggests that using arginine for 6 months may cause cardiovascular damage. Specifically, arginine was significantly worse than placebo for PAD. You can find the entire paper for free if you google it. The graphs are pretty frightening.

L-Arginine Supplementation in Peripheral Arterial Disease

No Benefit and Possible Harm
Andrew M. Wilson, MBBS, PhD; Randall Harada, MD; Nandini Nair, MD, PhD; Naras Balasubramanian, PhD; John P. Cooke, MD, PhD From the Division of Cardiovascular Medicine (A.M.W., R.H., N.N., J.P.C.) and Department of Biostatistics (N.B.), Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, Calif.

Correspondence to John P. Cooke, MD, PhD, Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Stanford University Medical Center, Falk Cardiovascular Research Institute, 300 Pasteur Dr, Stanford, CA 94305. E-mail john.cooke@stanford.edu

Received December 20, 2006; accepted May 3, 2007.

Background— L-Arginine is the precursor of endothelium-derived nitric oxide, an endogenous vasodilator. L-Arginine supplementation improves vascular reactivity and functional capacity in peripheral arterial disease (PAD) in small, short-term studies. We aimed to determine the effects of long-term administration of L-arginine on vascular reactivity and functional capacity in patients with PAD.

Methods and Results— The Nitric Oxide in Peripheral Arterial Insufficiency (NO-PAIN) study was a randomized clinical trial of oral L-arginine (3 g/d) versus placebo for 6 months in 133 subjects with intermittent claudication due to PAD in a single-center setting. The primary end point was the change at 6 months in the absolute claudication distance as assessed by the Skinner-Gardner treadmill protocol. L-Arginine supplementation significantly increased plasma L-arginine levels. However, measures of nitric oxide availability (including flow-mediated vasodilation, vascular compliance, plasma and urinary nitrogen oxides, and plasma citrulline formation) were reduced or not improved compared with placebo. Although absolute claudication distance improved in both L-arginine- and placebo-treated patients, the improvement in the L-arginine-treated group was significantly less than that in the placebo group (28.3% versus 11.5%; P=0.024).

Conclusions— In patients with PAD, long-term administration of L-arginine does not increase nitric oxide synthesis or improve vascular reactivity. Furthermore, the expected placebo effect observed in studies of functional capacity was attenuated in the L-arginine-treated group. As opposed to its short-term administration, long-term administration of L-arginine is not useful in patients with intermittent claudication and PAD.



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#13 renwosing

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 01:31 PM

Just stick to the real mccoy, rHGH.

Renwosing




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