Resveratrol Side Effects, good and bad Rating Options

[hmm]

After being on resveratrol for a while, I do believe that muscle and tendon issues are problems with long term high dose resveratrol use. My partner and I have been taking 1 gram of revgenetics 99% pills a day for over a year now. The muscle effects didn't crop up until after about a year. These include muscle tightness and a feeling that muscles are being overly stretched when lifting weights. While it might be a coincidence, my partner has recently developed medial epicondylitis, a swelling of muscles in the elbow. Earlier this summer he had shoulder bursitis. I have experienced very loud and unusual joint popping sounds I have read someone describe here. While these effects could be a coincidence, I have dropped our dose to 500 mg and I think I have noticed a difference (less popping sounds and muscle tightness) but this could be placebo effect. I wonder if Sirtris compiled data in their study in India about the long term side effects of continuous resveratrol supplementation.

Tendon repair requires (among other things) plenty of Vitamin C, sulfur, lysine, proline, copper, zinc, boron, silica, and most certainly manganese.
Perhaps one or more of these are co-factors for T-Res useage and are simply used up more rapidly.

Weight trainers often take extra zinc which by itself can cause copper and manganese deficiencies.
IMHO Manganese deficiency plus high intensity weight training will most certainly wreck your tendons.

Here's an interesting article on Llama's and tendon weakness:
http://llamadocherbs.com/id15.htm

It would provide some nice answers if some of these problems could be attributed to lysine deficiencies. People who are low on lysine are vulnerable to an attack of shingles if they have had chicken pox. People with herpes are more vulnerable to outbreaks when lysine gets low. I have no idea how much of a factor lysine is, however, as far as tendon problems are concerned. I have read that people who are athletic require more lysine, and I wonder if resveratrol and its effect of making bodies more "athletic" could also cause bodies to chew up extra amounts of lysine...

[phineas]

I just took my first reservatrol this morning. I also added D3 and K2. I take many supplements, Glutamine, potassium, magnesium, calcium, plenty of Omega 3s, Folic Acid, B vitamins and many others. I also regularly (every few weeks) am treated with NeuroMuscular Therapy (NMT) by Paul St John (start of St John method of NMT--now NeuroSomatics).

I'm eager to slim down and tone up. I have pudged out a bit and have become lax in my exercise (used to run, row, bike, dance, lift, nautilus, etc).

As I'm told I'm old now (65 and NOT ELDERLY!!!!) although most of me thinks I'm 17, it's time to get back in shape. I have a personal Pilates trainer for 1/2 hour 3xs a week, to jump start my abs etc. For cardio I have been biking on weekends and, as I get fitter, I will add dancing, treadmill, rowing machine, and nautilus.

As an adult ed teacher, I am on my feet and walking rapidly in my classroom for 5 hours a day -- otherwise I'd be fat instead of pudgy.

Anyway, I am trying to go slowly as I get fit, because if I get tendinitis as I did 12 years ago, I'll probably stop the program and become a fat elderly woman.

It seemed prudent to add resveratrol, D3 and K2 to my supplement regime.

As I cut down on B&Js and add exercise AND resveratrol, I'll keep an eye on this forum and will post any reactions that could be resveratrol related. I am hoping the effects are all good, but I am noting possible ill effects on muscles and tendons. Grrr.

Appreciate any input too.

[Anthony_Loera]

I don't believe the issue is tendonitis.

Tendonitis:

"The most common cause of tendonitis is overuse. Commonly, individuals begin an exercise program, or increase their level of exercise, and begin to experience symptoms of tendonitis. The tendon is unaccustomed to the new level of demand, and this overuse will cause an inflammation and tendonitis.

Another common cause of symptoms of tendonitis is due to age-related changes of the tendon. As people age, the tendons loose their elasticity and ability to glide as smoothly as they used to. With increasing age, individuals are more prone to developing symptoms of tendonitis. The cause of these age-related changes is not entirely understood, but may be due to changes in the blood vessels that supply nutrition to the tendons."

How is it treated?
Usually rest and anti-inflammatory medicine.

Having said that, resveratrol is considered anti-inflammatory, so maybe it is not tendonitis at all.

I understand that you still feel like you are 17, even though you are actually 65. However folks at this age may develop age related issues, maybe you should consult a doctor to verify what it is.
A

This post has been edited by Anthony_Loera: Oct 19 2008, 01:59 AM

[hmm]

I don't believe the issue is tendonitis.

Tendonitis:

"The most common cause of tendonitis is overuse. Commonly, individuals begin an exercise program, or increase their level of exercise, and begin to experience symptoms of tendonitis. The tendon is unaccustomed to the new level of demand, and this overuse will cause an inflammation and tendonitis.

Another common cause of symptoms of tendonitis is due to age-related changes of the tendon. As people age, the tendons loose their elasticity and ability to glide as smoothly as they used to. With increasing age, individuals are more prone to developing symptoms of tendonitis. The cause of these age-related changes is not entirely understood, but may be due to changes in the blood vessels that supply nutrition to the tendons."

How is it treated?
Usually rest and anti-inflammatory medicine.

Having said that, resveratrol is considered anti-inflammatory, so maybe it is not tendonitis at all.

I understand that you still feel like you are 17, even though you are actually 65. However folks at this age may develop age related issues, maybe you should consult a doctor to verify what it is.
A

I don't understand this post. The original poster said "if I get tendinitis as I did 12 years ago". Why should she go to a doctor to see if what she had 12 years ago was really tendinitis?

[Anthony_Loera]

She also mentions...

"I am hoping the effects are all good, but I am noting possible ill effects on muscles and tendons."

that's what the post was in response to...

A

[Stokestack]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

[hmm]

She also mentions...

"I am hoping the effects are all good, but I am noting possible ill effects on muscles and tendons."

that's what the post was in response to...

A

Since she only started taking rsv the same day that she was posting, do you think that perhaps she was "noting" the posts mentioning possible ill-effects to be found on this forum? Whatever, I guess we can leave it up to her to clarify...

[hmm]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

[pycnogenol]

Does anyone know if Resveratrol spikes (i.e., increases/elevates) liver enzymes in humans? Just curious. Thanks.

This post has been edited by pycnogenol: Oct 22 2008, 03:44 PM

[davidd]

Does anyone know if Resveratrol spikes (i.e., increases/elevates) liver enzymes in humans? Just curious. Thanks.

This study includes information on resveratrol's effect on phase I and phase II detoxifying enzymes and may provide what you are looking for. Are you looking for something in particular?

...
Toxicogenomics of resveratrol in rat liver

Vidya Hebbar^a, Guoxiang Shen^a, Rong Hu^a, Bok-Ryang Kim^a, Chi Chen^a, Peter J. Korytko^b, James A. Crowell^c, Barry S. Levine^b and A.-N. Tony Kong<sup>a, ,

a</sup>Department of Pharmaceutics, Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy, 160 Frelinghuysen Road, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, Piscataway, NJ 08854, United States ^bToxicology Research Laboratory, University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, IL 60612, United States ^cNational Cancer Institute, Rockville, MD, United States
Received 23 April 2004; accepted 7 October 2004. Available online 29 January 2005.


References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

<H3 class=h3>Abstract</H3>Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound found in grape skin and peanuts has been shown to prevent many diseases including cardiovascular diseases and cancer. To better understand resveratrol's potential in vivo toxicity, we studied the dose response using cDNA stress arrays coupled with drug metabolizing enzymatic (DME) assays to investigate the expression of stress-responsive genes and Phase I and II detoxifying enzymes in rat livers. Male and female CD rats were treated with high doses of resveratrol (0.3, 1.0 and 3.0 gm/kg/day) for a period of 28 days. Total RNA from rat liver was reverse-transcribed using gene-specific primers and hybridized to stress-related cDNA arrays. Among female rats, Phase I DME genes were repressed at 0.3 and 1.0 gm/kg/day doses, while genes such as manganese superoxide dismutase, cytochrome P450 reductase, quinone oxidoreductase and thiosulfate sulfurtransferase demonstrated a dose-dependent increase in gene expression. The modulation of these liver genes may implicate the potential toxicity as observed among the rats at the highest dose level of resveratrol. Real-Time PCR was conducted on some of the Phase II DME genes and anti-oxidant genes to validate the cDNA array data. The gene expression from real-time PCR demonstrated good correlation with the cDNA array data. UGT1A genes were amongst the most robustly induced especially at the high doses of resveratrol. We next performed Phase I and Phase II enzymatic assays on cytochrome P450 2E1 (CYP2E1), cytochrome P450 1A1 (CYP1A1), NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase (NQO1), glutathione S-transferase (GST) and UDP-glucuronosyl transferase (UGT). Induction of Phase II detoxifying enzymes was most pronounced at the highest dose of resveratrol. CYP1A1 activity demonstrated a decreasing trend among the 3 dose groups and CYP2E1 activity increased marginally among female rats over controls. In summary, at lower doses of resveratrol there are few significant changes in gene expression whereas the modulation of liver genes at the high dose of resveratrol may implicate the potential toxicity observed.

Keywords: Resveratrol; In vivo; Drug metabolizing enzymes; DNA arrays; Gene expression

Abbreviations: NQO1, NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase; GST, Glutathione S-transferase; UGT, UDP-glucuronosyltransferase; COX, Cyclooxygenase; SOD2, Manganese superoxide dismutase 2
....

I think the low end of dosing is equivalent to something like 6 grams/day in a person (someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, which is good!). So if that level didn't do much to the liver enzyme production, and if people are affected in the same way as rats, then the amounts that most people are taking would not have much effect on these liver enzymes.

I can tell you that 1500mg of quercetin does seem to increase my UGT1A1 enzyme production. I don't have any enzyme tests to prove this conclusively, but without going into all the details, I'm seeing results consistent with that happening and quercetin is documented to do this. I have a naturally reduced production of enzymes from this gene, due to a genetic mutation. This dose seems to have gotten my enzyme production back to just above the normal range when I was taking it. I took it in 2 divided doses each day.

Is there a particular type of enzyme you are looking to increase?

Thanks,
David

[Dmitri]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

I've read that Quercetin and Niacinamide could help since they inhibit some of rsv effects.

[davidd]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

I've read that Quercetin and Niacinamide could help since they inhibit some of rsv effects.

I've benefitted from quercetin/bromelain's anti-inflammatory abilities, and that was also while taking resveratrol. Others, like maxwatt, have had the opposite effect. It may be worthwhile to try to see if it helps with the symptoms. It seems to be well tolerated by most, so it could be tried and if it makes the condition worse, it could be stopped, and the worsening should go away.

I don't have any direct experience with niacinamide, but I've read about its anti-inflammatory abilities.

I think you are referring to quercetin and niacinamide's downregulation of the SIRT1 gene (and possibly other sirtuins), compared with resveratrol's upregulation of this gene. It may be possible that SIRT1 activation for some people would cause tendon problems, but my guess is that isn't how it is causing the issues, even if it is causing them. Maybe there is some non-SIRT1 mechanism causing the issues, or maybe, as others have pointed out, it is something mixed with the resveratrol that is causing the issues, rather than the resveratrol chemical itself (emodin, etc.). There are a lot of variables at play here.

One thing a person could do to come closer to an answer would be to take an emodin supplement and see if that produces the same issues, compared with taking a pure resveratrol supplement. I'm not sure what other things might be in the non-pure resveratrol supplements, but I'm sure someone else can provide that information. If those other things were readily available, they could be tried as well. Obviously, this wouldn't be a good idea if the tendon issues are extreme. But if they are just an annoyance, then this type of trial and error might prove useful.

Now that I think about it, I might try this myself (at some future point in time). I've noticed some joint/connective tissue problems. I had some of the pains before taking resveratrol, but some are new. I am taking a 50% pure form of resveratrol. I attribute my pains to iron supplementation in the past, but it would be an interesting thing to test out. I'm not sure how long it would take to prove it though. I've been taking 400 to 600mg of resveratrol for about 5 months and just noticed the new issues a few weeks after I stopped taking the combo of quercetin/bromelain with the resveratrol, so it may have been masking the issue for a while. Or it could all be coincidence.

David

[pycnogenol]

Hi David,

Thanks for the article.

I've recently started taking resveratrol and informed my physician about it so she can chart it in my medical profile.

I also have blood work done on a regular basis since I take prescription medications as well as nutritional supplements.

Does anyone know if Resveratrol spikes (i.e., increases/elevates) liver enzymes in humans? Just curious. Thanks.

This study includes information on resveratrol's effect on phase I and phase II detoxifying enzymes and may provide what you are looking for. Are you looking for something in particular?

Thanks,
David

[Dmitri]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

I've read that Quercetin and Niacinamide could help since they inhibit some of rsv effects.

I've benefitted from quercetin/bromelain's anti-inflammatory abilities, and that was also while taking resveratrol. Others, like maxwatt, have had the opposite effect. It may be worthwhile to try to see if it helps with the symptoms. It seems to be well tolerated by most, so it could be tried and if it makes the condition worse, it could be stopped, and the worsening should go away.

I don't have any direct experience with niacinamide, but I've read about its anti-inflammatory abilities.

I think you are referring to quercetin and niacinamide's downregulation of the SIRT1 gene (and possibly other sirtuins), compared with resveratrol's upregulation of this gene. It may be possible that SIRT1 activation for some people would cause tendon problems, but my guess is that isn't how it is causing the issues, even if it is causing them. Maybe there is some non-SIRT1 mechanism causing the issues, or maybe, as others have pointed out, it is something mixed with the resveratrol that is causing the issues, rather than the resveratrol chemical itself (emodin, etc.). There are a lot of variables at play here.

One thing a person could do to come closer to an answer would be to take an emodin supplement and see if that produces the same issues, compared with taking a pure resveratrol supplement. I'm not sure what other things might be in the non-pure resveratrol supplements, but I'm sure someone else can provide that information. If those other things were readily available, they could be tried as well. Obviously, this wouldn't be a good idea if the tendon issues are extreme. But if they are just an annoyance, then this type of trial and error might prove useful.

Now that I think about it, I might try this myself (at some future point in time). I've noticed some joint/connective tissue problems. I had some of the pains before taking resveratrol, but some are new. I am taking a 50% pure form of resveratrol. I attribute my pains to iron supplementation in the past, but it would be an interesting thing to test out. I'm not sure how long it would take to prove it though. I've been taking 400 to 600mg of resveratrol for about 5 months and just noticed the new issues a few weeks after I stopped taking the combo of quercetin/bromelain with the resveratrol, so it may have been masking the issue for a while. Or it could all be coincidence.

David

That could be the case, though if the impurity is causing the problems then why don’t they release a rsv tablet, capsule, etc that has 100% rsv instead of the 50, 98 or 99% I see on the market?

Anyway, reading these type of messages has held me back from using the newer supplements that have no long term studies. At the moment I only use a multi-vitamin/mineral powder, Vitamin D3 liquid soft gels (1,000 IU), Vitamin C (with rose hips) 1,000 mg, drink Green Tea and use 100% cocoa dark chocolate powder which I believe is safer. I’m still contemplating whether or not to use R-Lipoic Acid (there are claims it’s a CR mimic) and quercetin.

[maxwatt]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

I've read that Quercetin and Niacinamide could help since they inhibit some of rsv effects.

I've benefitted from quercetin/bromelain's anti-inflammatory abilities, and that was also while taking resveratrol. Others, like maxwatt, have had the opposite effect. It may be worthwhile to try to see if it helps with the symptoms. It seems to be well tolerated by most, so it could be tried and if it makes the condition worse, it could be stopped, and the worsening should go away.

I don't have any direct experience with niacinamide, but I've read about its anti-inflammatory abilities.

I think you are referring to quercetin and niacinamide's downregulation of the SIRT1 gene (and possibly other sirtuins), compared with resveratrol's upregulation of this gene. It may be possible that SIRT1 activation for some people would cause tendon problems, but my guess is that isn't how it is causing the issues, even if it is causing them. Maybe there is some non-SIRT1 mechanism causing the issues, or maybe, as others have pointed out, it is something mixed with the resveratrol that is causing the issues, rather than the resveratrol chemical itself (emodin, etc.). There are a lot of variables at play here.

One thing a person could do to come closer to an answer would be to take an emodin supplement and see if that produces the same issues, compared with taking a pure resveratrol supplement. I'm not sure what other things might be in the non-pure resveratrol supplements, but I'm sure someone else can provide that information. If those other things were readily available, they could be tried as well. Obviously, this wouldn't be a good idea if the tendon issues are extreme. But if they are just an annoyance, then this type of trial and error might prove useful.

Now that I think about it, I might try this myself (at some future point in time). I've noticed some joint/connective tissue problems. I had some of the pains before taking resveratrol, but some are new. I am taking a 50% pure form of resveratrol. I attribute my pains to iron supplementation in the past, but it would be an interesting thing to test out. I'm not sure how long it would take to prove it though. I've been taking 400 to 600mg of resveratrol for about 5 months and just noticed the new issues a few weeks after I stopped taking the combo of quercetin/bromelain with the resveratrol, so it may have been masking the issue for a while. Or it could all be coincidence.

David

That could be the case, though if the impurity is causing the problems then why don’t they release a rsv tablet, capsule, etc that has 100% rsv instead of the 50, 98 or 99% I see on the market?

Anyway, reading these type of messages has held me back from using the newer supplements that have no long term studies. At the moment I only use a multi-vitamin/mineral powder, Vitamin D3 liquid soft gels (1,000 IU), Vitamin C (with rose hips) 1,000 mg, drink Green Tea and use 100% cocoa dark chocolate powder which I believe is safer. I’m still contemplating whether or not to use R-Lipoic Acid (there are claims it’s a CR mimic) and quercetin.

see the "300 MG Trans-Resveratrol Making My Joints Hurt " topic. There is a possibility of heavy metal poisoning from impure product.

[davidd]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

I've read that Quercetin and Niacinamide could help since they inhibit some of rsv effects.

I've benefitted from quercetin/bromelain's anti-inflammatory abilities, and that was also while taking resveratrol. Others, like maxwatt, have had the opposite effect. It may be worthwhile to try to see if it helps with the symptoms. It seems to be well tolerated by most, so it could be tried and if it makes the condition worse, it could be stopped, and the worsening should go away.

I don't have any direct experience with niacinamide, but I've read about its anti-inflammatory abilities.

I think you are referring to quercetin and niacinamide's downregulation of the SIRT1 gene (and possibly other sirtuins), compared with resveratrol's upregulation of this gene. It may be possible that SIRT1 activation for some people would cause tendon problems, but my guess is that isn't how it is causing the issues, even if it is causing them. Maybe there is some non-SIRT1 mechanism causing the issues, or maybe, as others have pointed out, it is something mixed with the resveratrol that is causing the issues, rather than the resveratrol chemical itself (emodin, etc.). There are a lot of variables at play here.

One thing a person could do to come closer to an answer would be to take an emodin supplement and see if that produces the same issues, compared with taking a pure resveratrol supplement. I'm not sure what other things might be in the non-pure resveratrol supplements, but I'm sure someone else can provide that information. If those other things were readily available, they could be tried as well. Obviously, this wouldn't be a good idea if the tendon issues are extreme. But if they are just an annoyance, then this type of trial and error might prove useful.

Now that I think about it, I might try this myself (at some future point in time). I've noticed some joint/connective tissue problems. I had some of the pains before taking resveratrol, but some are new. I am taking a 50% pure form of resveratrol. I attribute my pains to iron supplementation in the past, but it would be an interesting thing to test out. I'm not sure how long it would take to prove it though. I've been taking 400 to 600mg of resveratrol for about 5 months and just noticed the new issues a few weeks after I stopped taking the combo of quercetin/bromelain with the resveratrol, so it may have been masking the issue for a while. Or it could all be coincidence.

David

That could be the case, though if the impurity is causing the problems then why don't they release a rsv tablet, capsule, etc that has 100% rsv instead of the 50, 98 or 99% I see on the market?

Anyway, reading these type of messages has held me back from using the newer supplements that have no long term studies. At the moment I only use a multi-vitamin/mineral powder, Vitamin D3 liquid soft gels (1,000 IU), Vitamin C (with rose hips) 1,000 mg, drink Green Tea and use 100% cocoa dark chocolate powder which I believe is safer. I'm still contemplating whether or not to use R-Lipoic Acid (there are claims it's a CR mimic) and quercetin.

see the "300 MG Trans-Resveratrol Making My Joints Hurt " topic. There is a possibility of heavy metal poisoning from impure product.

Hmm, that doesn't sound good. I'll have to check that out.

As for why there isn't an absolutely 100% product, I'm guessing the answer is that it would be cost prohibitive to purify it to that degree?

David

[stephen_b]

I wonder whether serrapeptase might help those having tendonitis issues with resveratrol.

StephenB

[Dmitri]

It IS tendonitis. I've seen a doctor and had it verified. And it just gets worse. I quit this garbage months ago and the major sites are just as inflamed as they were when I quit. The latest blow is serious tendonitis above the knee, which I've never experienced in my life. Another fine addition is creeping plantar fasciitis in a hitherto unaffected foot, to go with the raging case that currently hobbles the other foot.

The results of this supposedly vitality-preserving wonder supplement? CRIPPLING TENDONITIS AND A FORCED SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE. I can't even enjoy basic sports with my friends, let alone maintain a rigorous exercise regimen to preserve my health and vitality. And for many people who will try this stuff, it comes at the worst possible stage in life, where recovery may be impossible.

I'm not imagining any of this and I'm not ignoring other possible sources of injury.

IT'S A DISASTER. QUIT THIS STUFF NOW.

Sorry about the way this is screwing up your life Stokestack. Everybody has their personal take on this. The salesman wants to sell it, the scientists want reliable studies and evidence on it, folks with your kind of unfortunate experience would just as soon burn it. Myself, I am staying with it unless I get a real stern warning otherwise from my body. So far, I find the benefits outweighing the costs, even though I had to suffer through an attack of shingles and a lot of stinky intestinal gas.

I don't discount your experiences at all, but I also don't discount the other folks who have been quite happy with their own experiences. My inclination at this point is that if rsv causes some problems, that the baby shouldn't necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. Maybe the administration of rsv can be tweaked to ensure that it works more favorably for everyone. For instance, maybe it simply needs to be taken along with one or more other substances that might compensate for possible chemical deficiencies rsv might cause...

I've read that Quercetin and Niacinamide could help since they inhibit some of rsv effects.

I've benefitted from quercetin/bromelain's anti-inflammatory abilities, and that was also while taking resveratrol. Others, like maxwatt, have had the opposite effect. It may be worthwhile to try to see if it helps with the symptoms. It seems to be well tolerated by most, so it could be tried and if it makes the condition worse, it could be stopped, and the worsening should go away.

I don't have any direct experience with niacinamide, but I've read about its anti-inflammatory abilities.

I think you are referring to quercetin and niacinamide's downregulation of the SIRT1 gene (and possibly other sirtuins), compared with resveratrol's upregulation of this gene. It may be possible that SIRT1 activation for some people would cause tendon problems, but my guess is that isn't how it is causing the issues, even if it is causing them. Maybe there is some non-SIRT1 mechanism causing the issues, or maybe, as others have pointed out, it is something mixed with the resveratrol that is causing the issues, rather than the resveratrol chemical itself (emodin, etc.). There are a lot of variables at play here.

One thing a person could do to come closer to an answer would be to take an emodin supplement and see if that produces the same issues, compared with taking a pure resveratrol supplement. I'm not sure what other things might be in the non-pure resveratrol supplements, but I'm sure someone else can provide that information. If those other things were readily available, they could be tried as well. Obviously, this wouldn't be a good idea if the tendon issues are extreme. But if they are just an annoyance, then this type of trial and error might prove useful.

Now that I think about it, I might try this myself (at some future point in time). I've noticed some joint/connective tissue problems. I had some of the pains before taking resveratrol, but some are new. I am taking a 50% pure form of resveratrol. I attribute my pains to iron supplementation in the past, but it would be an interesting thing to test out. I'm not sure how long it would take to prove it though. I've been taking 400 to 600mg of resveratrol for about 5 months and just noticed the new issues a few weeks after I stopped taking the combo of quercetin/bromelain with the resveratrol, so it may have been masking the issue for a while. Or it could all be coincidence.

David

That could be the case, though if the impurity is causing the problems then why don't they release a rsv tablet, capsule, etc that has 100% rsv instead of the 50, 98 or 99% I see on the market?

Anyway, reading these type of messages has held me back from using the newer supplements that have no long term studies. At the moment I only use a multi-vitamin/mineral powder, Vitamin D3 liquid soft gels (1,000 IU), Vitamin C (with rose hips) 1,000 mg, drink Green Tea and use 100% cocoa dark chocolate powder which I believe is safer. I'm still contemplating whether or not to use R-Lipoic Acid (there are claims it's a CR mimic) and quercetin.

see the "300 MG Trans-Resveratrol Making My Joints Hurt " topic. There is a possibility of heavy metal poisoning from impure product.

I see, though I’m still weary about putting something in my body that will change gene expression; I think I'll wait for more long term studies.

[unglued]

I don't see a reply to this question from a few months ago:

Were the Sinclair mice in good shape before the tests? Or were they slugs like me?

The mice in Sinclair's experiment published in November 2006 were overfed -- even more than the average American, based on percentage of calories from fat. Or so I've seen mentioned in various sources.

As for exercise, I don't know if they were put just once on a treadmill for the one performance test, or tested regularly. If the latter, they obviously got more exercise than the average person who drives to work, doesn't go to a gym, and doesn't have a giant hand grabbing them periodically and forcing them to run on a treadmill whether they like it or not. One clue is that the media has often called them "couch potato mice". But I don't know what that means: for a mouse, being a couch potato may mean you only spend three hours a day working out on your exercise wheel.

Maybe someone who has access to the original paper and has read it carefully can summarize, better than the journalists, what kind of human the Sinclair mice are the best model of.

[Meta-comment: These various resveratrol topics all seem to naturally wander so much that the lines between them are blurred. Then again, I don't see a topic that would have fit this question exactly anyway.]

[unglued]

Please Post in this Format:
name, RESV in g/day, purity, summary of effects

unglued,1.3,65%,Increased endurance (measured VO2max); Homocysteine may have increased; Return of chronic knee pain; Lower blood pressure; Increased HDL
unglued,0.3,50%,Increased endurance (measured VO2max)

Notes:

• 1.3g and 65% is an estimate. For 6-9 months I was taking 3x 300mg 50% capsules every day and 1/4 teaspoon (but not level teaspoon) of 98% powder (mixed with liqueur and pudding) when convenient.
• For discussion of Vo_{2 max} measurements, see post #1510 ff on "500 Club" topic.
• I also posted certain measurable results in the new Google spreadsheet using this form and so can anyone else.
• Homocysteine not measured until I was on a high dose. Decreased steadily when I lowered dose, took it hours after folic acid, and greatly increased folic acid. Could have made it worse as some suspect, but it's also impossible it could be gradually improving a naturally high level due to a genetic flaw.
• HDL briefly peaked at lifetime record, but correlation isn't obvious, and total cholesterol was higher at same time.

[Googlebot]

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