28 replies to this topic

[neogenic]

My wife's dad (about 60 yo) for the past 6 months has been going chemo and radiation, had teeth removed, tube feeding due to mouth/throat cancer. Yesterday he got news that it was malignant and untreated in an area in or around the lungs (I don't have clear details yet) and now instead of years, they are giving him months. He's supposed to do chemo one week on, three off now. I know some of its covered in LEF's book, but I'd appreciate anything the board could find. Also, her brother is on 4 types of chemo for Hodgkin's (26 yo) and was diagnosed 6 weeks ago. It is a tough time for her, she's up in Minnesota now and I am in NC. She's really taking all this hard (all while trying to go to Nursing school) and I am working 3 jobs on top of that. I'd like to help as much as I can. This board is quite special. So any help you could give would be appreciated.

[FunkOdyssey]

If I were diagnosed with cancer, I would probably consume heroic quantities of green tea extract (and green tea), resveratrol, and everything else that is supposed to have anti-cancer effects, as well as undergo IV vitamin C therapy. You're already dying, so what do you have to lose?

[neogenic]

What do you think of spin traps in this case?

[FunkOdyssey]

I haven't heard of them being used for that application before.

[zoolander]

tread carefully. Hodgkins is a white blood cell cancer. Strengthening the immune system is a dangerous move.

I would consider exercise, modify diet and read about the particular cancer. Is it B-cell or T-cell? Aggressive? Agreesive in this situation does not mean that the cancer is agressive. There are alot of things that you need to look at first.

Such cancers seem to be the result of immunosupression but you must be careful not to upregulate the immune system.

Read read read. Print out medical papers for their oncologist. The best thing that you can do IMO is to be with the person in question and give them what they need

[tham]

Alfacalcidol, 1-OHD3, (One Alpha, made by Leo of Denmark)
the first metabolite of cholecalciferol, was used in these studies
at therapeutic doses typically given in osteoporosis. However,
this was on non-Hodgkin's.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Because Hodgkin's tends to be associated with hypercalcemia
and elevated levels of calcitriol, and alfacalcidol is metabolized
to calcitriol (1,25-OH2D3), you may want to consider the two new
oral vitamin D analogs which I believe is available in the USA,
doxercalciferol (Hectorol) and paracalcitol (Zemplar). Both
are actually D2 analogs with much reduced hypercalcemia
and far more potent differentiation activity.


http://www.chem-onli...lfacalcidol.htm

http://www.hectorol.com/

Doxercalciferol (1-OHD2) has not been studied in Hodgkin's,
but I believe its differentiation activity is likely to work against
this cancer. (D3 analogs have been extensively studied in
leukemia). You might try asking his doctor to prescribe it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Paracalcitol (19-nor-1,25(OH)2D2) has just become available as
capsules, and is also a D2 analog.

http://www.zemplar.com/

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Both analogs would also likely have potential against
throat cancer.

Indeed, D2 may actually be safer than D3 to the kidneys.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Edited by tham, 16 August 2006 - 05:26 PM.

[Pablo M]

For a rational review of the research on vitamin C and other natural anti-cancer agents, read Cancer, Nutrition and Survival, available at lulu.com/ascorbate. I have not read much about Hodgkin's and I don't know if IV vitamin C would be appropriate in this case.

[sentrysnipe]

Kindly read thoroughly on Duke's http://www.imminst.o...t=0

Taheebo tea and Beta-Glucans (broad-spectrum not just for prostate) http://www.imminst.o...t=0

and also the untapped (warning: still *pseudoscience*) that is Quantum mechanics (mind visualization)
http://www.amazon.co...glance&n=283155

[Pablo M]

Kindly read thoroughly on Duke's http://www.imminst.o...t=0

o IV vitamin C along with green tea extract.
o Ave: http://www.avemarusa.com/index.html
o Lactoferrin mega doses (3 grams daily)
o I-C-3 mega doses
o Garlic
o Turmeric
o Regular green tea
o Flax seed lignans
o Tagamet (boosts immune system)
o Vitamin D mega doses (10,000 i.u. per day)
o Ginko mega doses

That might be a self-defeating regimen. IV vitamin C needs to be started slowly, for one, because there are reports of deaths because the cancer was killed too quickly. Also, vitamin C's mechanism of action seems to be generating free radicals within the cancer cells, which do not have a normal complement of antioxidant enzymes and can thus not protect themselves. One of the ways it may do this is by causing them to rust out with high levels of iron. Thus, lactoferrin and green tea would oppose vitamin C's action. I would consider the iron-binders (IP6, green tea, lactoferrin) to be separate and incompatible methods of treatment from/with vitamin C, although they may be promising in their own right.

[tham]

Vitamin K2 :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


The two new D3 analogs with minimized hypercalcemia and
potentiated differentiation properties are 22-oxacalcitriol
(Maxacalcitol) by Chugai, and falecalcitriol (Hornel, Fulstan)
by Taisho, both Japanese.

http://endo.endojour...../138/12/54853

http://geocities.com...t/Vitamin-D.pdf

22-oxacalcitriol is only in injectable form, and has been used
by the Japanese in leukemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Leo Laboratories of Denmark, the developer of calcitriol,
came out with lexacalcitol (KH1060), but it doesn't appear
to be marketed. The also have another new one, seocalcitol
(EB1089).

Histiocytic lymphoma is another name for non-Hodgkin's.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Paracalcitol (Zemplar), the D2 analog. Myelomas also fall under lymphomas.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12813173

Edited by tham, 22 August 2006 - 08:21 AM.

[tham]

High-dose IV vitamin C therapy (up to 100 grams) was developed
by Dr Hugh Riordan, who passed away last year. If you wish
to try this, his center may be the right place for treatment.
They also combine it with other holistic therapies there.

http://www.brightspot.org/

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


He faxed me his research papers some 10 years ago and
his work certainly looked impressive.

[neogenic]

Thank you so much. My mother-in-law is appreciative of this and I have been passing on the information. Thanks.

[tham]

You might look at my earlier post under breast cancer:

http://www.imminst.o...=0


Vitamin E as tocopherol succinate :

Head and neck/mouth cancer :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Lymphoma :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Luteolin :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Edited by tham, 22 August 2006 - 03:36 PM.

[neogenic]

The Ave, fermented wheat germ product is interesting. Has anyone used it? Is this like the GliSODin at all?

[tham]

Note that tocopherol succinate has dose-related
contradictory actions in these studies - stimulating
the cancer at low dosages, inhibiting it at high ones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

[Mixter]

Most important, according to an interesting resource from LEF:
http://www.lef.org/p...lymphoma_02.htm

3g/day Curcumin -- Curcumin inhibits cell division of cancer cells,
and is the most important herb in lymphoma treatment
IMP: 3g Curcumin means, a lot more than 3g of Turmeric!!!
Take with pepper to maximize bioavailability, or as supplement w/ perine.

Genistein from soy, green tea, and all the other chemopreventives

For chemotherapy: as frequent as possible blood tests, esp. for anemia! Preventing
anemia means eliminating a huge percentage of the mortality risk
of chemo. www.lef.org has an own protocol for anemia, besides cancer

Finally, try to get monoclonal immunotherapy (infliximab, etc.) alone or w/ radiation,
instead of chemo. Fight a lot with oncologist if necessary. 1) chemo is very high dose
for lymphoma and at the same time 2) immunotherapy often very effective w/ lymphoma

Also, if you didn't know yet: hodgkins is well researched and very different from all
other lymphoma and even all other cancer forms. Survival is much higher than in other
cancers -- but anemia risk during chemo is not less, so a major factor to take care of.

Best luck/wishes.

[sentrysnipe]

Could you guys also accompany your supplements with your recommended brand and retailer so that it wouldn't be purpose defeating and overwhelming for the mother? Thanks :D

[neogenic]

Thanks SentrySnipe for saying that, I do want to boil it down as much as possible. Have it as simple as possible if one thing in a higher dose works as well as lower dose "cocktail" therapy, I'd choose one compound. Time is not on our side and something radical needs to be done in my father-in-law's case.


Comparing again to the Ave product, is VRP's EpiCor in the same realm of products as well?
http://www.vrp.com/a...rp.css&p=no&s=0

[sentrysnipe]

Thanks SentrySnipe for saying that, I do want to boil it down as much as possible.  Have it as simple as possible if one thing in a higher dose works as well as lower dose "cocktail" therapy, I'd choose one compound.  Time is not on our side and something radical needs to be done in my father-in-law's case.
Comparing again to the Ave product, is VRP's EpiCor in the same realm of products as well?
http://www.vrp.com/a...rp.css&p=no&s=0

Add to your list for both relatives

• Molecule: Beta-Lapachone
  
  • Anti-Cancer Benefit: Topoisomerase I inhibtor
  • Type/Amount: 3 lbs ground tea bark per month, 32 oz a day; 75$/month
  • Retail: http://www.princetea.com/
• [Update] Molecule: Beta-Glucan
  
  • Anti-Cancer Benefit: stimulates inactive macrophage, increases phagocytic capacity, presents antigens to t-/b-cells
  • Type/Amount: 10 or more 100g bottles/month, 2-3g/day, please see dosage link below; 70 - 105$/month
  • Dosage by weight and condition: http://www.purehealt...can-dosage.html
  • Retail (Please read accompanied literature): http://www.purehealt...eta-glucan.html
  • Direct Product link: https://www.pureheal...ta-glucan-500mg
  • Direct Product Link: Now Foods (iHerb), 10-15 Bottles per patient, 70-105$/month
• 1-3 Organic Brazil Nuts/day for Selenium

I would say exhaust everything, don't choose just one compound. Some only works synergistically with other agents/phytochemicals. Hope all is well.

Edited by sentrysnipe, 26 August 2006 - 11:03 PM.

[tham]

This might be a more cost-effective source, if you wish
to try beta glucan. The only drawback is you have to
take more capsules:

http://betterlife.co...sp?prod_id=1550


Lapacho (pau d'arco) as recommended above by Sentrysnipe
above is also well established as a cancer fighter.


PSK, as mentioned in the link on breast cancer above,
has about 30% beta glucans, but there are likely other fractions
in the mushroom which has anticancer activity. Both the
Japanese and Chinese have used it in nose and throat cancer
(which is the closest to mouth/throat cancer) with modest
results, but at least it almost doubled the dismal five-year
survival rate, and improved average survival time from two
to three years in the Taiwanese study. In this form of cancer,
common amongst the Chinese of Southern China (and Malaysia),
the mushroom appears to be more effective at reducing distant
metastases than inhibiting the local cancer.

It might allow you to buy some time for your father-in-law while
you consider other therapies.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum



This looks like the most cost-effective source of PSK. They
appear to have included PSP, the Chinese equivalent :

http://www.virtuvite...orioluspure.htm

Edited by tham, 25 August 2006 - 06:07 PM.

[Centurion]

Sorry to hijack this threat but just wanted to pose the brief question about my brother who is in remission from bone cancer. Was wondering if high does vit c would reduce the likelihood of it coming back? The doctors said if it were to come back it would be to the lungs.

[sentrysnipe]

This might be a more cost-effective source, if you wish to try beta glucan. The only drawback is you have to take more capsules: http://betterlife.co...sp?prod_id=1550

"1,3/1,6 -D- Glucan powder (min.60%)" It's not cost-effective since it only gives min 60%. Transfer Point's has at least 85-90%.
Cancer patients need to take more. around 2grams a day. dosage link: http://www.purehealt...can-dosage.html

http://betterlife.co...sp?prod_id=1550
This looks like the most cost-effective source of PSK. They appear to have included PSP, the Chinese equivalent :
http://www.virtuvite...orioluspure.htm

It really is tricky. PSK != PSP right? They brand the products without clear classification. I think PSK (PolySaccharide Krestin) in strict definition is a type of PSP (PolySaccharide Peptide).

This one: http://www.jhsnp.com...versicolor.html has 36%

I searched more about this NutraceuticsRX brand you linked and I only found less than 10 search results in google. Do you think this is a bona fide brand line or some customized product label? I appreciate if you could aid some more on this.

Apparently, most of the research on beta-glucan is through the PSK source but I think it should have almost the same effects, only probably it is much more proven. Do you think there are other constituents present in PSK that inhibits cancer?
[airquote]A polysaccharide preparation isolated from Coriolus versicolor (Fr.) Quel. of Basidiomycetes (PSK) predominantly consists of glucan and approximately 25% tightly bound protein [/airquote] - from http://www.ncbi.nlm....4&dopt=Abstract

Provided ths is true, and that the glucan is the sole reason for cancer apoptosis, would the glucan source matter at all (oats, Baker's yeast, PSK from mushroom)?

Thanks.

Edited by sentrysnipe, 26 August 2006 - 05:31 PM.

[tham]

You could also try enquiring from these two Amazonian herb suppliers
as to which of their plants or products might have the best anticancer
activity :

http://rain-tree.com

http://tropilab.com


My guess is annona muricata/montana, common names soursop
and graviola. You can find soursop fruit juice in coffee shops in
Malaysia. The Chinese here call it "Western Durian".

http://www.tropilab.com/soursop.html

http://rain-tree.com/graviola.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


This looks quite potent :

http://rain-tree.com...ax-capsules.htm


The other candidate might be bitter melon (momordica charantia).
They also stock pau d'arco.

[sentrysnipe]

Tham: I found a cheaper Beta Glucan, same brand that you recommended (Now), from iHerb

so Transfer Point's has 500mg/pill, one bottle has 60 pills = 30g with 89% glucan
while Now's has 100mg, 90 caps/bottle = 9g with at least 60% glucan

30g x 0.89 = 26.7g glucan (Transfer Point) 70$
9g x 0.6 = 5.4g glucan (Now Foods) 7$

So we'll just have to buy more bottles of Now glucan (around 5) to equate with the Transfer Point product.

1 bottle 500mg 60count Transfer Point = 26.7g glucan
5 bottles 100 mg 90count NowFoods x 5.4g glucan amount per bottle = 27g glucan

In terms of price and glucan amount,
5 bottles NowFoods > 1 bottle Transfer Point, and this costs
35$ (7$/bottle) vs. one 70$ Transfer Point bottle

So that's 50% savings. But now, neogenic's relatives should take around 2g of glucan a day so he has to purchase 10 Now Food bottles per patient. (~70$/month)

I believe this way is relatively cheaper. I know a child with the same condition and have spent 700,000$ all hospital bills.

Thank you for the suggestion, tham.

[tham]

Thanks, Sentrysnipe.

Yes, I think the Now beta glucan is cheaper, plus it
has some maitake as an added bonus.

Beta glucan would definitely help with Neogenic's father-
in-law's mouth cancer, but I am not so certain about his
brother-in-law's Hodgkin's lymphoma. As Zoolander above
mentioned, Hodgkin's is a white blood cell cancer, largely
overproduction of B-lymphocytes, and boosting the immune
system might be risky.

I don't really know about the reliability of the NutraceuticsRx brand,
I just found it on the net while searching for sources of PSK.
Virtuvites is apparently owned by American Nutrition, their
website design is similar and they also have Mushroom Science's
VPS in stock.

http://www.americann...x_Coriolus.html

http://www.americann...s_coriolus.html


Oat beta glucan is mostly of the 1,3/1,4 type. The 1,4 chain
is actually cellulose. Most of the research on beta glucan
against cancer is almost exclusively on the 1,3/1,6 types
found in baker's yeast and mushrooms, but there are a
few studies on oat glucans, particularly when combined with
monoclonal antibodies, in cancer :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

[tham]

I know a child with the same condition and have spent
700,000$ all hospital bills.

Yes. I've been told hospital fees are very expensive in the
USA, especially for serious diseases like cancer. It is also
skyrocketing in Malaysia. Just last month, my office's delivery
man went down with angina, was admitted in one of the private
hospitals here and they found three of his coronary arteries
clogged to some degree.

They used TPA or streptokinase to clear two of them, I think, and
angioplasty for the third. He stayed two nights in the ICU and a few
more in the normal wards. The bill came out to M$33,000.

[tham]

Bitter melon looks quite potent too :



http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

[tham]

The Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), one of the herpes viruses, is well known
to be linked to nasopharyngeal cancer. In fact one of the blood markers
for this type of cancer is an antibody test for the viral capsid antigen,
EBVCA-IgA/IgG.

Nasopharygeal cancer has a high incidence in the Kwangtung
(Cantonese) province of southern China, Hongkong, south-
east Asia, North Africa and the Eskimos of Alaska and Greenland,
due largely to genetic and dietary factors. It is particularly common
amongst the boat people of Hongkong, who subsist on salted
fish and vegetables preserved with nitrosamines.

An excerpt from an old Prevention Magazine book :

" No one knows why the cancer is common there as it is rare
here, but scientists at Ohio State University have recently
discovered that the transformation of EBV into a cancer-causing
agent seems to take place presence of certain chemicals found
in traditional Chinese herbal medicines that contain the plants from
the families Euphorbiaceae (euphorbia) and Thymelaeceae (thyme)
- known in the United States as varieties of spurge, daphne, mezereon,
hogwort, croton, poinsetta, crown-of-thorns, snow-on-the-mountain,
tung oil tree, pencil tree and candelebra. The plants, unfortunately,
are common in Southern China. "

(Tung oil is commonly used in paints, varnishes and
wood finishes.)

EBV has also been linked to Hodgkin's lymphoma (some
30-40% of cases). There are links with oropharyngeal (mouth
and throat) cancers, but the studies appear to be conflicting.

The human papilloma virus (HPV) has also been implicated to
a lesser extent in the above cancers.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum



http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Note that in Rain Tree's herbal guide for diseases below,
bitter melon has activity in Hodgkin's and both the above
types of viruses. Thus bitter melon may well be the herb of
choice for Hodgkin's.

The other herb noted as having common activity is vassourinha
(licorice weed, sweet broomweed, Scoparia dulcis). Note that it has
hypotensive and hypoglycemic effects. Should not be taken together
with antidepressants.


http://www.rain-tree.com/indicate.htm

Cancer :
Graviola, espinheira santa, mullaca, mutamba, vassourinha, bitter melon,
guacatonga, simarouba, cat's claw, anamu, pau d'arco, fedegoso,
sangre de grado, suma, amargo, copaiba

Hodgkin's Disease:
Bitter melon, graviola, pau d'arco, mullaca, vassourinha, anamu,
mutamba, cat's claw, espinheira santa, simarouba, suma

Epstein-Barr Virus :
Bitter melon, tayuya, cat's claw, suma, Brazilian peppertree, mullaca,
jergon sacha, macela, chanca piedra, vassourinha, clavillia

Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) :
Andiroba, bitter melon, sangre de grado, jergon sacha, copaiba,
vassourinha, clavillia, cat's claw, macela, mullaca, chanca piedra


Pau d'arco as recommended by Sentrysnipe is also
indicated under Hodgkin's, and is also a good choice
as lapachol inhibits EBV.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


Scoparia dulcis :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


This link says that sodium ascorbate should not be used
in Hodgkin's, but I am uncertain as to why. Maybe other
users here could enlighten.

http://www.herbs2000...ins_disease.htm

Edited by tham, 31 August 2006 - 02:40 PM.

[tham]

On checking Rain Tree's UK website, their herbal product
called "N-Tense" is apparently formulated for cancer.
This is not mentioned in their US website probably
due to the usual FDA restrictions on product claims.

The three herbs mentioned earlier with potent anticancer
activity - bitter melon, graviola and scoparia dulcis -
are included in the formula.

http://www.raintree-.../info/1028.html

http://www.rain-tree...se-capsules.htm

Thus the following could be a possible regimen for
oropharyngeal (mouth and throat) cancer :

1. "N-Tense" by Raintree
2. Beta glucan by Now, from Iherb.com
3. Pau d'arco by Princetea.com
4. Brazil nuts for selenium as recommended by Sentrysnipe
5. Ask his doctor to prescribe either Hectorol or Zemplar,
the vitamin D2 analogs mentioned above, to assist with
cancer cell differentiation.


Rain Tree's other cancer formulation, "N-Tense 2" is indicated
for leukemia, and thus might be more appropriate for Hodgkin's.
You should confirm this with Rain Tree first, though.

http://www.raintree-.../info/1053.html

http://www.rain-tree...e2-capsules.htm


The following might thus be a regimen for Hodgkin's:

1. "N-Tense 2" by Rain Tree
2. Beta glucan by Now from Iherb.com
3. Bitter melon tincture from Tropilab.com
4. Pau d'arco from Princetea.com
5. Brazil nuts for selenium
6. Hectorol or Zemplar prescribed by doctor


On checking further, beta glucan as recommended by Sentrysnipe
appears to be of benefit in Hodgkin's and thus has been included.

Beta glucan plus a monoclonal antibody. The form used in this
study was the 1,3/1,4 type, oat glucan :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

PSK inhibits Esptein-Barr, and this antiviral activity is likely
due to its beta glucan content.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Hodgkin's also appears to be attributed to low NK cell status,
and beta glucan upregulates NK activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

This link also supports the use of beta glucan in Hodgkin's
(though the amount in the Macroforce product is of course tiny).

http://www.immudyne....estimonial.html