43 replies to this topic

[staceyo]

Hi guys! I'm at the point where I don't know what to do next. I've read/researched so much and I just end up more confused. I was hoping someone could help.

I have chronic, ongoing depression which I control with an SSRI. It manages to mostly hold it at bay, but I still have many down days for no reason at all. I have tried everything I can think of to control my depression. I've tried vitamins, fish oil, light box, etc. Nothing ever works. That is problem #1.

Problem #2 is ongoing fatigue. I am in my 30s, and I have (seriously) half the energy that most people seem to have. Everyone can run circles around me. I need an afternoon nap every day, and even then I'm zonked by 9:00 p.m. I don't have a stressful life. I get plenty of sleep. I know I snore (thank you weight gain from SSRI!), but I've been tested for sleep apnea and was told it was very mild. No need for a CPAP machine. I feel like I'm in slow motion most of the time. Absolutely no pep, no energy. I'm sure a lot of this must be due to the SSRI, but I always have had less energy than most.

I have had many medical tests done. Nothing shows up as being abnormal, with the exception of a very low progesterone level. I've recently started treatment for that, but I haven't noticed any difference in my mood or energy. I am very proactive in trying to help myself, but I'm getting so discouraged. Everything I try backfires. For example, I've read a lot about Vitamin D being helpful in depression. I've been taking 1,000 mg per day for 2 months now, but I haven't noticed anything. Except that I feel very tired after taking it. MOST supplements seem to make me sleepy. 5-HTP knocks me out. SAM-e makes me tired. Magnesium puts me to sleep. Ugh! Doesn't anything give you energy??

I'm tired of being held hostage by this nonsense. I want to find something that actually works for me. Can anyone offer me suggestions??

[health_nutty]

What does your diet and exercise look like?

[staceyo]

Definitely not good. High on carbs, no exercise (toooo tired).

[saxiephon]

Excerpts from LE Magazine September 2006
Check out the article at http://www.lef.org/m...arnitine_01.htm

Why Aging Humans Need More Carnitine

By Julius G. Goepp, MD

An inevitable consequence of aging is a rapid decline in our cellular energy levels. The outward effects often manifest as a sense of overall fatigue, depression, and sexual dysfunction. The internal effect of a cellular energy deficit is a greater vulnerability to a host of degenerative diseases.

The prime reason cells lose their energy-producing ability is that the powerhouses of the cells—the mitochondria—become dysfunctional. Research has shown that the amino acid carnitine is critical to maintaining optimal mitochondrial function and supporting high energy production.

Carnitine is responsible for fueling the fires of energy production at the cellular level. Without this valuable nutrient, the mitochondria are unable to burn dietary fats to create the energy we need to live.

Scientists have discovered several different forms of carnitine that, in addition to bolstering energy production, produce health benefits that include protecting against neurodegenerative diseases, alleviating depression, stimulating nerve growth, and improving heart function.

Why Carnitine Supplementation Is Essential

During one’s youth, most of the body’s requirement for carnitine is met by internal production of carnitine from lysine, as well as by dietary sources such as red meat and dairy products.1 An increasing body of evidence, however, indicates that to obtain enough carnitine to secure its protective effects against aging requires supplementation in addition to dietary sources.2

While scientific studies initially focused on the simplest form of carnitine, known as L-carnitine, recent findings suggest that specialized carnitine formulations may provide more dramatic, tissue-specific benefits.3

Acetyl-L-carnitine is the most widely studied carnitine supplement. It readily crosses the blood-brain barrier4 and thus confers powerful protective effects on nerve tissue and the central nervous system—enhancing mood, restoring energy, and alleviating nerve pain.

A closely related compound, acetyl-L-carnitine arginate, combines carnitine with the amino acid arginine. It appears to have the same general properties as acetyl-L-carnitine, with the additional benefit of increasing nerve cell growth, thus making it a promising agent in addressing neurodegenerative conditions and possibly trauma.

Finally, propionyl-L-carnitine is a form of carnitine that appears to have potent effects in cardiac and skeletal muscle,3 giving it a potential role in maintaining physical energy and stamina.

[saxiephon]

Here's another possibility:
Check it out at http://www.lef.org/p..._fatigue_01.htm

- Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is characterized by long-term fatigue, as well as sleep-related difficulties, cognitive difficulties, sore throat, tender lymph nodes, or other symptoms.
- The cause of CFS is unknown, although it can be triggered by a wide range of events. There may be multiple causes.
- It is estimated to affect about 500,000 people in the United States, although it mostly affects women aged 25 to 45.
- The diagnosis of CFS is made by excluding other conditions that can have similar symptoms, such as depression or viral illness. A variety of blood tests and other analyses are sometimes needed to rule out other conditions and correctly diagnose CFS. It is still frequently misdiagnosed.

[niner]

Have you talked to your doctor about it? (I'm assuming there is a doctor in the picture, because of the SSRIs.) You might want to find a doctor that deals in CFS, but I would start with whoever you see now. Terrible diet and lack of excercise certainly aren't helping. Some SSRIs are more soporific than others.. what are you using?

[blarger]

Get off SSRI, try inositol in its stead. Take more vitamin D/get more sunlight. Walk for 30 minutes on a treadmill every day at a challenging pace. Work up an appetite, and eat when you are actually hungry, not when convention dictates. Make sure you are getting enough calories if you are especially thin. Hydrate and avoid stimulants.

Exercise is absolutely crucial for the maintenance of adequate catecholamine levels. Start as slow as you need to, once your heart gets pumping, you will realize you have a lot more latent energy than you realize. Unless you are housebound by your malady, you can get yourself to a treadmill.

Don't search for mysterious causes to your fatigue until you check off the basics.

[ajnast4r]

im kind of dissapointed at the amount of irresponsible posts in here.
supplementation is always LAST.

what are your sleep patterns like?
since you were tested for sleep apnea, have you been hooked to an EGG..? are you hitting 4th & rem sleep every night?

whats your diet like?
have you been tested for food allergies? im allergic to wheat, and the symptoms are pretty severe depression and fatigue.

do you exercise every day?

[staceyo]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. So, 15,000 mgs of Vitamin D per day? Whoa, okay. Ajnast4r, I was tested overnight in a clinic for sleep apnea. They hooked me up. They didn't explain the specifics to me about what levels of REM I was hitting...they just said I had a mild case of sleep apnea but loud snoring.

I haven't been tested for food allergies. I tried a low-carbohydrate (no wheat) diet, but I became pretty depressed after a week. I don't exercise at all because I'm so tired, but I'll try walking.

I take Prozac.

[ajnast4r]

i would disregard that 15,000IU vitamin D statement.

if youre snoring, youre not in REM sleep. something to look into

try a normal amount of carbs, and no wheat... or better yet just go have a food allergy panel done http://www.elisaact.com/

[staceyo]

Unfortunately that company is "shut down" until further notice. Maybe I can find something around here. A normal amount of carbs but no wheat. So, is it okay to get the majority of carbs from vegetables and fruit? Maybe a little bit of rice here and there?

[staceyo]

Thanks Orthomolecular. If I can't treat it myself, who do I go to? I'm in Canada. No physician here cares one bit about "vitamin therapy". Do I go to a Naturopath? Do I need blood tests or something? Can't I just take some kind of mega-dose of vitamins? As you can see, I'm at the end of my rope. I've put up with feeling like crap for far too long. I have a young child and I can't just accept it anymore.

[staceyo]

Thanks.

[ajnast4r]

When you see bullshit of that magnitude on the front page of a website, it is time to close your browser window.

i though the same thing when ur 1st recomendation was 10-15x dose of vitamin D...
so how is that bullshit... i believe quite a bit of undiagnosed illness is due to food allergy.

[staceyo]

I am going to look into the whole food allergy issue as well. You guys have given me a lot to research. Thank you!!

[curious_sle]

Addison, could it be you're taking at a wee bit too litteral?

But you do have a point and I agree with you on the Vitamine D3, provided she is deficient which can be tested after all. (Chances are she *is* deficient, all right i do think so personally)

[niner]

Some of the narrow mindedness on this site is just pathetic. Is the world still flat? The most dangerous combination is intelligent people with closed minds. I am doing NAET and I will tell you right now It is NOT BUllshit. It actually is amazing. There is so much we don't understand or refuse to understand about the bodys energy field, and if we are in tune with our bodies how much we can improve our own health. Laugh all you want, It works. Isn't good health one of the major keys to longevity? If you don't want to try it is fine but don't "trash" anything you know nothing about. KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

Ok, my mind is not entirely closed. How does it work? The naet website didn't say anything I could find about that. Is it related to conventional immunotherapy? (repeated injections of purified antigens) That works, at least for me and some other people I know. As far as I can tell, "energy field" is another word for "magic", but then any sufficiently advanced technology will appear to be magic to those who don't understand it. Does this particular magic involve identifying the allergen and excluding it from your diet or environment? Does it involve some method of retraining the immune system? Any combination of magnets, crystals, pyramids, orgone accumulators or laying on of hands? It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out...

[staceyo]

What do you do for a living? - customer service rep, work from home
Do you have a husband? - yes
Are you addicted to anything (drugs, internet, sex, etc.)? - no, but I do really like the internet and sugar Have you ever been addicted to anything in the past? - no
How often and much do you drink alcohol? - almost never
How many hours a day do you spend watching tv or in front of the computer? - around 8 for computer (my job), 1 hour tv
How is your spiritual life? ok

[ajnast4r]

That's because you haven't read the vitamin D thread. If you had, you'd notice that there is a link to a long presentation by a canadian doctor named Vieth who specifically describes the incredible prevalence of vitamin D insufficiency among canadians.

i have... and you didnt say have your vitamin D levels checked, you said take 15x what youre taking now.
which is an irresponsible recomendation

Well apparently allergy therapy is even better than vitamin D because we now know that most illnesses are caused by undiagnosed food allergies. s.

do we KNOW that most cases of fatigue & depression are caused by d3 defeciancy?
no
what we DO know is the effects that proper diet, sleep, and exercise can have on them... which is why getting those foundational aspects of health in check, should always be FIRST.

and food allergies are extremely common... obviously your not well read on the subject, so i wont bother trying to argue this with you.
in FACT, the ONLY symptoms i get from my wheat allergy are depression and fatigue.
read up on it before you knock it...

[Matt]

Have some blood tests done such as B6, B12 and Folate, CBC, Ferritin. Suspect food allergy or intolerence problems too, such as gluten intolerence.

I

[staceyo]

the ONLY symptoms i get from my wheat allergy are depression and fatigue

Today I paid a lot of attention to how I felt. After eating simple carbs (pasta), I was very fatigued.

[Matt]

I forget to mention that I experienced fatigue for quite a few months and some other symptoms like allergies that I never had before. Some of my family have digestive problems, one had diagnosed coeliac disease. It turns out that I now have *suspected* b12 deficiency! even with intake of 1000% RDA of of b12 from supplement and over 100% from Diet.

Deficiency for whatever reason is a very widely undiagnosed problem.

[Shepard]

Today I paid a lot of attention to how I felt.  After eating simple carbs (pasta), I was very fatigued.

Have you changed your diet since this incident? You've got to push yourself to get some exercise. I'm not even going to get into the Vitamin D issue.

[ajnast4r]

Addison Strack,

you get no more responses from me [sleep]

Today I paid a lot of attention to how I felt.  After eating simple carbs (pasta), I was very fatigued.

try some NON wheat simple carbs and see how you feel

you could try keeping a log of what you eat at what times, and what times you feel fatigued. if you have a food allergy panel done, your doctor is probably gonna ask you to do this anyway... so if you already have it thats a plus

[xanadu]

I wasn't going to say anything because all the 'experts' would shoot it down but I know an excellent cure for depression. It's the herb salvia divinorum. Do a search on this website and you will find a lot of info. Works like a charm with no negative side effects if used properly. Kids take large doses to have hallucinations which you do not want. That can be avoided, just use the plain leaf not the concentrate and start with small amounts and work up until you find your dose.

I would also recommend avoiding all refined sugar and flour from your diet. This alone will help.