60 replies to this topic

[basho]

The following video is actually quite sad, and you can feel for the woman's family. The line between mental illness and religious fervour can be hard to distinguish, and possibly both are mutually reinforcing.



From another thread:

This may help explain what religious people feel:
God on the brain: is religion just a step away from mental illness?

From the article:

God is an artefact of our evolved human minds, and that visions are symptoms of neurological abnormality. As well as Moses, experts are intrigued by St Paul, who famously encountered God in a blinding flash while on the road to Damascus, and St Teresa of Avila, who heard voices and is widely thought to have exhibited signs of schizophrenia.
...
As soon as our brains became sufficiently evolved to embrace supernatural ideas, Boyer suggests, religion spread like a cerebral virus.

And also:

http://www.autoadvic...raindisease.htm

Tertiary Neurosyphilis
Tertiary neurosyphilis, is the most interesting form of syphilis from a cultural point of view. Just before the onset of paralysis, the sufferer is beset with delusions of grandeur, a sense of understanding everything, a sense that he is on the verge of some monumental discovery which will forever change the course of history, as well as a sense that some divine electricity is coursing through his veins. 
...
The syphilitic experiences, in Hayden’s words,
"episodes of creative euphoria, electrified, joyous energy when grandiosity led to a new vision. The heightened perception, dazzling insights, and almost mystical knowledge experienced during this time were expressed while precision of form of expression was still possible. At the end of the 19th century, it was believed that, in rare instances, syphilis could produce genius."

Despite all that, I'd be very hesitant to attribute general religious belief on mental disorders. Extreme examples where schizophrenia, disease, or other problems cause people to hear voices or think they are God are the exception. For most people, religion is simply the default option, a societal norm and a part of the environment, a comforting delusion to give life purpose and meaning.

[modelcadet]

If I knew I wouldn't go to jail, I would kill that woman.

I was abused in much the same way by hyper-religious rents. My mom kept spray bottles filled with holy water which she would spray throughout the house every time she felt the presence of evil. I got sprayed a few times. When I was lucky, though, it'd be blessed rose water.

Although people like this would exist irregardless of the existence of religion, I feel religious dogma can encourage such dangerous ignorance. Those children, seriously, should be taken out of that home.

And, as I said, that woman should be shot.

[JonesGuy]

Keep in mind that religious belief and religious delusions are different things.

I can believe that aliens exist (and thus support projects like SETI out of enlightened self-interest); it's a belief. However, that's a damn sight different than thinking that aliens are talking to me, and commanding me to support the Raeliens.

[JohnDoe1234]

I have a feeling that this sort of behavior in the past is where we get a lot of our bible stories...

I know that it won't be long before someone supporting religion comes along and says that this is just a twisted and isolated case which shouldn't be lumped in with the rest of religion, but it doesn't matter. All that matters is what modelcadet said:

Although people like this would exist irregardless of the existence of religion, I feel religious dogma can encourage such dangerous ignorance. Those children, seriously, should be taken out of that home.

We don't see scientists behaving like this do we?

There is a definite correlation between weak-minded and uneducated people and religion, however I feel very sad that a lot of very intelligent young people (at the church I went to a few years back) are being sucked into the very same bullshit. If they weren't indoctrinated at such a young age they might have been able to escape, but I am afraid the damage is already to serious...

Also, from the looks of it, she apparently thought that her dentist was dark-sided too!

EDIT: I can't believe that twisted bitch just about denied her children $50,000

[Neurosail]

I grew up in a religious house like that. I had a uncle even threw firecrackers at me to drive out Satan. Because I'm bipolar I was often sent to a pastor to expel demons, rather than going to a doctor to get medicine for the mood swings.

When I turned 18, I moved out of that environment and was told by my grandmother that I was going to hell for moving out of the house and moving 30 miles away. (I didn't even want to live close to them.)

I still regret visiting my mom for vacation, one week in hell per year is all that I can take. She lives in Chicago, and I live in Alabama and even that is too close sometimes.

I wonder how many other members here were abused by religious parents. If so please post below, I bet the number of abuse is high.

Keep in mind that religious belief and religious delusions are different things.

Belief in any religion is a delusion! Most people go to church because it is a social club. That is where all of their friends and family go. If you don't believe in what the pastor is preaching then don't go. Form or go to nonreligious social clubs. I know a lot of people who only go to church because that is where their friends are.

[Live Forever]

I remember when that episode aired. All of my friends and I were making fun of that lady for at least a month.

"DARK SIDED"

"I won't my GOD and I want my family"

"I'm a God Warrior!"


I feel sorry for the kids most of all. You know they have to put up with that all the time.

[JohnDoe1234]

My favorite lines:

"...if everybody would look back at everything I've been saying and preaching and praying and saying, I've been saying I am a spiritual warrior!"

"I ask the questions, because I'm the warrior!"

Oh man... thanks for the laughs you crazy, stupid fool

[Aegist]

She was just scary. Very very scary.

I feel so sorry for those poor children. They will be scarred for life, and if they aren't bright, they will most likely turn into their mother and ruin their own childrens' lives too.



http://richarddawkins.net/goodBadUgly


BTW, I'm not sure where exactly, but I think Dawkins, or someone else online anyway, has started some sort of support movement for people who find themselves surrounded by religious nuts, and unable to find a way out of it. I should locate it so anyone needing help has a reference to look up.

[Live Forever]

She was just scary. Very very scary.

I feel so sorry for those poor children. They will be scarred for life, and if they aren't bright, they will most likely turn into their mother and ruin their own childrens' lives too.



http://richarddawkins.net/goodBadUgly


BTW, I'm not sure where exactly, but I think Dawkins, or someone else online anyway, has started some sort of support movement for people who find themselves surrounded by religious nuts, and unable to find a way out of it. I should locate it so anyone needing help has a reference to look up.

That Richard Dawkins site is pretty good. They have a lot of media links and things on the front page: http://richarddawkins.net/home

Thanks for the link.

[Aegist]

I have been a big fan of Dawkins since early undergrad. The Selfish Genes is one of the best Pop Sci books I have ever read, and I highly recommend it to everyone (along with all of his other books, particularly the Blind Watchmaker for any evolution dubious people). But the Selfish Gene has single handedly sculptured my view of genetic evolution, things make so much more sense when you realise that evolution happens almost exclusively on a genetic level.

But this latest backlash by the Atheists against organised religion is long overdue, and I support it completely. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett.... The right place at the right time.

If you know very little about this, jsut go to you tube and search for any of those three, and start watching. VERY interesting stuff.

[Live Forever]

I have been a big fan of Dawkins since early undergrad. The Selfish Genes is one of the best Pop Sci books I have ever read, and I highly recommend it to everyone (along with all of his other books, particularly the Blind Watchmaker for any evolution dubious people). But the Selfish Gene has single handedly sculptured my view of genetic evolution, things make so much more sense when you realise that evolution happens almost exclusively on a genetic level.

But this latest backlash by the Atheists against organised religion is long overdue, and I support it completely. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett.... The right place at the right time.

If you know very little about this, jsut go to you tube and search for any of those three, and start watching. VERY interesting stuff.

Yes, the so called "New Atheists" are very interesting indeed. Here is a Wired article on them I read a few months ago:
http://www.wired.com...11/atheism.html

[Aegist]

Wow, that was a really cool article:

"Dawkins looks forward to the day when the first US politician is honest about being an atheist. "Highly intelligent people are mostly atheists," he says. "Not a single member of either house of Congress admits to being an atheist. It just doesn't add up. Either they're stupid, or they're lying. And have they got a motive for lying? Of course they've got a motive! Everybody knows that an atheist can't get elected.""


Long article too. but I got through it all.

[zoolander]

Man! the woman in THAT video is going to spit blood when she finds out that Darth Vader is her father!

[basho]

http://richarddawkins.net/goodBadUgly

Great link, thanks for that. I love some of the mail he received:

"Dawkins, you and your atheist friends cannot win. America WILL become a Christian Republic even if we have to write a whole new constitution. Millions of us are dedicated to this righteous cause. We will suceed. And then we will invade godless countries like "Great" Britain and kill all of your heathens. First we need to take care of things at home and in the Middle East but we will get around to Europe. You Godless freaks will die but then you will roast in hell for infinite time. Goodbye you loser."

"get the authorities to ban this book"

"You sad, pathetic, small-minded, intellectually closed little man. You are your kind are every bit as dangerous and intolerant as Bush or bin Laden"

"haha, you fucking dumbass, I hope you get hit by a Church van tonight and you die slowly"

[william7]

http://richarddawkins.net/goodBadUgly

Great link, thanks for that. I love some of the mail he received:

"Dawkins, you and your atheist friends cannot win. America WILL become a Christian Republic even if we have to write a whole new constitution. Millions of us are dedicated to this righteous cause. We will suceed. And then we will invade godless countries like "Great" Britain and kill all of your heathens. First we need to take care of things at home and in the Middle East but we will get around to Europe. You Godless freaks will die but then you will roast in hell for infinite time. Goodbye you loser."

"get the authorities to ban this book"

"You sad, pathetic, small-minded, intellectually closed little man. You are your kind are every bit as dangerous and intolerant as Bush or bin Laden"

"haha, you fucking dumbass, I hope you get hit by a Church van tonight and you die slowly"

How do you know the letter wasn't written by an atheist supporter trying to help out in the propaganda department?

[william7]

What kind of tentative diagnosis would a psychiatrist give of the woman in the video? Kind of reminds me of the behavior of some of the bipolars I've known and read about.

It looks like somebody is preparing their case for an involuntary commitment proceeding.

[Live Forever]

http://richarddawkins.net/goodBadUgly

Great link, thanks for that. I love some of the mail he received:

"Dawkins, you and your atheist friends cannot win. America WILL become a Christian Republic even if we have to write a whole new constitution. Millions of us are dedicated to this righteous cause. We will suceed. And then we will invade godless countries like "Great" Britain and kill all of your heathens. First we need to take care of things at home and in the Middle East but we will get around to Europe. You Godless freaks will die but then you will roast in hell for infinite time. Goodbye you loser."

"get the authorities to ban this book"

"You sad, pathetic, small-minded, intellectually closed little man. You are your kind are every bit as dangerous and intolerant as Bush or bin Laden"

"haha, you fucking dumbass, I hope you get hit by a Church van tonight and you die slowly"

How do you know the letter wasn't written by an atheist supporter trying to help out in the propaganda department?

Could be. I know several Christians with similarly wacky worldviews, though. So I wouldn't put it past them to write in something like this. The whole roast in hell bit is something they say a lot.

[Live Forever]

What kind of tentative diagnosis would a psychiatrist give of the woman in the video? Kind of reminds me of the behavior of some of the bipolars I've known and read about.

It looks like somebody is preparing their case for an involuntary commitment proceeding.

That, plus she needs to back off on the twinkies.

[DJS]

Ageist: I have been a big fan of Dawkins since early undergrad. The Selfish Genes is one of the best Pop Sci books I have ever read, and I highly recommend it to everyone (along with all of his other books, particularly the Blind Watchmaker for any evolution dubious people). But the Selfish Gene has single handedly sculptured my view of genetic evolution, things make so much more sense when you realise that evolution happens almost exclusively on a genetic level.

ooo, I could get argumentative here, but I'll refrain for the sake of not pulling this thread off topic. Suffice to say that although I too possess reductionist leanings I have more and more gravitated towards multi-level selection theory.

[samson]

Well THAT was old... Hilarious though. I've always found the likes of *her* quite amusing to prod into rage.

[william7]

That, plus she needs to back off on the twinkies.

Yea, obesity must aggravate her condition substantially. You must of read about the twinkie defense too.

Religion has nothing to do with the woman's condition in my opinion. I've known bipolars who ranted and raved about legal issues and government conspiracies never mentioning anything about religion.
Also, so-called mental disorders afflict people of all socio-economic status, not just people of particular religious persuasions. The poor and the working class are probably more represented in the statistics than people in the upper classes, however. I would focus more on unhealthy diets and lack of normal human relationships as the problem.

[JohnDoe1234]

Yeah, that was a great article, thanks for posting it.

"haha, you fucking dumbass, I hope you get hit by a Church van tonight and you die slowly"

Although this is directed towards the type of people I liken to most... I got a good laugh out of it. it holds some truth, every church has their little fleet of jesus vans... quite funny

[Aegist]

How do you know the letter wasn't written by an atheist supporter trying to help out in the propaganda department?

1. Because that would be unethical, and in my experience Richard Dawkins is an incredible example of ethical conduct
2. Because this is typical of what extremist christians are prone to saying, I have seen it first hand many times. Why lie, weakening your own position in the process, in order to present something which is actually true?

[Aegist]

Religion has nothing to do with the woman's condition in my opinion. I've known bipolars who ranted and raved about legal issues and government conspiracies never mentioning anything about religion.
Also, so-called mental disorders afflict people of all socio-economic status, not just people of particular religious persuasions. The poor and the working class are probably more represented in the statistics than people in the upper classes, however. I would focus more on unhealthy diets and lack of normal human relationships as the problem.

You know, you are probably spot on. She probably is Bipolar...but I bet she doesn't get psychiatric support, and no one has diagnosed her condition, and everyone just thnks "She's very devout" instead of calling her out. Why do they do that? Because when people get all crazy with politics, conspiracy theories, or aliens, people call them nuts and keep a good safe distance from them. but when people get all crazy with 'God' this and god that and "I am a warrior for God" etc, then they are just devout.

She is crazy, and maybe it isn't that fault of religion that she is crazy, but it is religions fault that her family has to put up with her and treat her as if everything she says is true, when if her psychosis was applied to aliens, they would get her help.

It is a double standard for psychosis that only comes about thanks to religion.

[william7]

How do you know the letter wasn't written by an atheist supporter trying to help out in the propaganda department?

1. Because that would be unethical, and in my experience Richard Dawkins is an incredible example of ethical conduct
2. Because this is typical of what extremist christians are prone to saying, I have seen it first hand many times. Why lie, weakening your own position in the process, in order to present something which is actually true?

Are you saying all atheists act ethically and are not capable of producing a little false propaganda for the cause now and then?

2. Because this is typical of what extremist christians are prone to saying, I have seen it first hand many times. Why lie, weakening your own position in the process, in order to present something which is actually true?

If this is typical of what "extremist christians" are saying, then atheists need to point out that these so-called christians are not acting in accordance with Jesus' teachings and stop putting all sincere Christians in the same catergory with those that are way off base.

[william7]

Religion has nothing to do with the woman's condition in my opinion. I've known bipolars who ranted and raved about legal issues and government conspiracies never mentioning anything about religion.
Also, so-called mental disorders afflict people of all socio-economic status, not just people of particular religious persuasions. The poor and the working class are probably more represented in the statistics than people in the upper classes, however. I would focus more on unhealthy diets and lack of normal human relationships as the problem.

You know, you are probably spot on. She probably is Bipolar...but I bet she doesn't get psychiatric support, and no one has diagnosed her condition, and everyone just thnks "She's very devout" instead of calling her out. Why do they do that? Because when people get all crazy with politics, conspiracy theories, or aliens, people call them nuts and keep a good safe distance from them. but when people get all crazy with 'God' this and god that and "I am a warrior for God" etc, then they are just devout.

She is crazy, and maybe it isn't that fault of religion that she is crazy, but it is religions fault that her family has to put up with her and treat her as if everything she says is true, when if her psychosis was applied to aliens, they would get her help.

It is a double standard for psychosis that only comes about thanks to religion.

The woman in the video is not acting according to the teachings of Christ either. I'm sure she gets shunned the same as other so-called mentally ill people. My guess from the video is that the woman's family is trying to get her committed.

What the woman really needs is to be surrounded by people who'll teach her right Christian behavior and help her get on a healthy vegan diet. They have a number of Christian psychologists out there that might be able to help. See http://www.caps.net/.

[Aegist]

Are you saying all atheists act ethically and are not capable of producing a little false propaganda for the cause now and then?

No. Not saying not capable of, I'm saying exactly what I said... Richard Dawkins, the man whose name the domain is named after, has never acted in such an ethical way, AND it would be counter productive for their cause to do such a thing.

This doesn't mean it isn't possible, just that it is uncharacteristic and unlikely.

If this is typical of what "extremist Christians" are saying, then atheists need to point out that these so-called Christians are not acting in accordance with Jesus' teachings and stop putting all sincere Christians in the same category with those that are way off base.

Yeah, the people who write this garbage are beyond reasoning, even if the reasoning comes from their own book. Just look at that crazy woman who started this thread (not Live Forever, i mean the one in the movie [lol] ) and you tell me if you think she could be reasoned with?

And giving examples of 'ugly' letters is hardly saying that all Christians act like that. It is just humorous to observe hypocrisy of people as they fervently defend their supposed beliefs.

[basho]

The woman in the video is not acting according to the teachings of Christ either.

Only according your interpretation and understanding of the Bible (which I would say is far deeper than that woman's understanding). However, there are many branches of Christianity because there are so many ways you can interpret the Bible, and each one thinks theirs is The One True Teaching. Do you think all branches of Christianity are correct? Or have many of them got it wrong?

[basho]

The whole roast in hell bit is something they say a lot.

I've noticed that. There seems to be extreme glee at the anticipation that non-beleivers, and worshipers of false gods, will suffer eternal torment, pain, and horrible torture. There is no equivalent reciprocal feeling from atheists, and I'm sure we'd all feel terrible if someone like Elijah was suffering because of his beliefs.

The problem is that, in the minds of some Christians with these feelings, the "evil" people are dehumanized, and they would feel no remorse about discrimating against them, denying them help or medical care (e.g. contraception or abortions), or even killing them in rare cases. It would be the will of God in their minds and, as such, they feel perfectly justified in their actions.

[william7]

No. Not saying not capable of, I'm saying exactly what I said... Richard Dawkins, the man whose name the domain is named after, has never acted in such an ethical way, AND it would be counter productive for their cause to do such a thing.

This doesn't mean it isn't possible, just that it is uncharacteristic and unlikely.

I can also point to Christians high up in academia that espouse and exhibit high ethical standards and say it's uncharacteristic and unlikely they'll behave unethically. I'm talking about overzealous supporters and the unethical behavior they'll engage in, in behalf of the cause.

Yeah, the people who write this garbage are beyond reasoning, even if the reasoning comes from their own book. Just look at that crazy woman who started this thread (not Live Forever, i mean the one in the movie  ) and you tell me if you think she could be reasoned with?

My old bipolar neighbor was just as unreasonable as the woman in the video, in fact, more so. He wasn't religious at all and didn't attend any church. His thing was being in continual struggle with various government agencies he came into contact with. He was always filing frivolous lawsuits, in pro per, and making various threats against them. He was eventually sent to prison for stalking his court appointed attorney, who had represented him at his involuntary commitment proceeding, and for giving false information on the form required for purchasing a firearm. He intentionally omitted the fact that he had been involuntarily committed which is a federal offense. He was extremely difficult to get along with and caused many problems for himself and his family. He drank heavily, used drugs, and was overweight. If I remember correctly, he was diagnosed with a paranoid personality disorder in addition to bipolar disorder and was forced on a regimen of Haldol.

You got to have some sympathy for the woman in the video too. She was more than likely born with a predisposition to develop the condition she's afflicted with and probably suffered from an unstable family life as a child. Then there's all the other crap our insane, overly punitive society throws at a person. The Twinkies, the McDonald's, and the false church she was in contact with were probably the last straw for her.