17 replies to this topic

[juanjo_asdf]

My sister is currently on 100mg modafinil for a month now while studying for a state exam. I hooked her on the modafinil by the way.

For her big exam she is going to have to pass an 45minute oral exam which is a very tense one she has a prescription for sumial(propanolol) a beta-bloquer(sp) but I dont know if there will be any adverse reactions in theory with these two together. Ive recomended she test these two together before the test to asses how well they mix so as to not have any adverse reactions. I wanted to check with this board even before she even attempts to to trail these two. Any theoretical interaction in-between these two Im missing?


Help much apreciated.

[doug123]

I'm not a psychiatrist, so I'd highly suggest speaking with one about this issue.

Beta blockers seem to be used to clinically to reduce "stage fright."

Link to source page

Beta Blockers

Beta blockers are a class of drugs that block beta-adrenergic substances such as adrenaline (epinephrine), a key agent in the "sympathetic" portion of the autonomic (involuntary) nervous system and activation of heart muscle.

By blocking the action of the involuntary nervous system on the heart, beta blockers relieve stress on the heart. They slow the heart beat, lessen the force with which the heart muscle contracts and reduce blood vessel contraction in the heart, brain, and throughout the body.

Beta blockers can serve to treat abnormal heart rhythms (cardiac arrhythmias). They are used specifically to prevent abnormally fast heart rates (tachycardias) or irregular heart rhythms such as premature ventricular beats.

Since beta blockers reduce the demand of the heart muscle for oxygen and the chest pain of angina pectoris occurs when the oxygen demand of the heart exceeds the supply, beta blockers can be useful in treating angina. They have also become an important drug in improving survival after a person has had a heart attack.

Thanks to their effect on blood vessels, beta blockers can lower the blood pressure and be of value in the treatment of hypertension.

Other uses for beta blockers include the prevention of migraine headaches and stage fright (social phobia), and the treatment of certain types of tremors (familial or hereditary essential tremors).

The beta blockers (with brand names) include acebutolol (Sectral), atenolol (Tenormin), bisoprolol (Zebeta), metoprolol (Lopressor, Lopressor LA, Toprol XL), nadolol (Corgard) and timolol (Blocadren). Beta blockers are also available in combination with a diuretic as, for example, with bisoprolol and hydrochlorothiazide (Ziac).

Beta blockers reduce the pressure within the eye (the intraocular pressure), probably by reducing the production of the liquid (aqueous humor) within the eye, and so are used to lessen the risk of damage to the optic nerve and loss of vision in glaucoma. Beta blocker preparations for this purpose include timolol ophthalmic solution (Timoptic) and betaxolol hydrochloride (Betoptic, Betoptic S).

Take care.

[alterego]

Beta-blockers do reduce BP. It's depending on individual factors what the amount of BP lowering is and how you react on it. No idea about interactions with modafinil.

[dogbarf]

I can say that I have taken the two together without harm. Having said that, if you are interested in theory then I should mention that concomitant use of a beta-blocker and an adrenergic stimulant can lead to what is referred to as unopposed beta blockade (i.e., unchecked alpha stimulation). This can lead to paradoxical increases in blood-pressure and significant vasoconstriction. Cocaine users have died from this combination. While modafinil has typically no where near the adrenergic stimulant properties of cocaine, this would be the theory for which you were inquiring. With this you should also consider the anecdotal evidence (from this board, even) that modafinil may interfere with verbal fluency, and whether that combined with potentially excessive vasoconstriction is good for an oral exam.

[Mixter]

I'd say beta-blockers do something to your brain, and the something is certainly
not nootropic in nature. For cardiac arrhythmias or blood pressure, personally I would
first try ubiquinol and mild herbal ACE inhibitors with many other mild things.

Even if Modafinil & beta-blocker combo isn't evil, someone who NEEDS beta-blockers
shouldn't mess with his adrenergic system, which modafinil definitely does, somehow,
albeit in a mild manner. For someone studying and having to take exams, beta-blockers
are really not the way to go unless it's really clinically important. There is a large
selection of arrythmia and blood pressure meds if necessary, from calcium channel
blockers to sartans - not all of them recommended, of course - but they don't have
the occasional low energy and drowsiness implications of beta-blockers.

PS (OT): Propanolol is one very interesting medication beyond it's beta-blocking. It can
lessen the intensity of emotional memories and often prevent post-traumatic-stress
disorder. It's even been portrayed in the media as 'drug for forgetting bad memories'.
A handy >H pill to not use but keep in stock in case S... Happens, or you need to
seriously negotiate salary with your boss, or get emotional about being surprised by a
hard takeoff singularity which happens to ruin your whole day planning, etc. etc.

[edward]

Certainly is a weird combination. Definitely talk to a doctor. Propanolol blocks the action of epinephrine on both B1 and B2 adrenergic receptors. Basically it is the "anti-ephedrine". Modafinil has been shown to work as an agonist on the A1 receptor (also the norepinephrine/epinephrine/adrenergic system) and as a general brain energizer (whatever that is suppose to mean).

From what I can tell taking propanolol with Modafinil would be counterproductive but it may decrease some of the edginess of higher dose Modafinil.... Again, see a psychiatrist.

Edited by edward, 29 March 2007 - 05:57 PM.

[tarbtl]

Hey guys,

Sorry for bumping this thread up but I'm in the EXACT same situation.

I've been taking 100mg of Alertec for 2 days now. I plan on taking about 20mg of Inderal before going out to reduce anxiety. Is this okay?

If not... if I simply do not take the Alertec that day will that be enough time for it to clear out of my system.

What about caffeine with the Inderal. Is that safe? I'm a bit on the hypertensive side but only because of anxiety.

Cheers.

[tarbtl]

I just did a bit of googling and caffeine/ephedrine, etc. are a no-no for people taking beta blockers.

Just how big an increase in BP does it cause? And does it take away from the beta blocker's effectiveness at blocking adrenaline?

EDIT: OK. Fuckit. Not worth the risk taking them both together.

Is 2 days without caffeine and without Modafinil enough time for my body to clear whatever out for it to be safe to take Inderal by itself on day 3?

[oregon]

Please throw away all the Inderal pills. This is a "dumb" drug. It depletes CoQ10. A very BAD choice for exams.

[tarbtl]

I haven't even tried them yet. I will not use them for exams but for social interactions. I'll report my results. If it works well then I'll keep it. CoQ10 depletion is not something I am currently concerned about.

If someone can answer my question I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

"Is 2 days without caffeine and without Modafinil enough time for my body to clear whatever out for it to be safe to take Inderal by itself on day 3?"


PS: I'm only going to be taking 20mg once or twice a week at most. That's half the MINIMUM suggested dosage. Most people take 10x that amount DAILY.

[edward]

Personally I wouldn't take Inderal/Propanolol. If you want something for anxiety try Theanine and or Ashwagandha. These are much healthier options and seem to work for me. (note I have taken beta blockers before.... before I knew better that is). I think there are better options for what you are trying to accomplish. If you have severe anxiety though you shouldn't be messing around with Modafinil IMO.

[tarbtl]

Not severe by any stretch of the imagination. My anxiety is PURELY physical - akin to what happens when someone speaks on stage. Adrenalin rush at innapropriate times, etc.

ive tried theanine and ashwaganda - they don't do jack.

best results ive had so far was with phenibut but I cant stand the hangovers and ive built a huge tolerance.

edit: I'm just mentioning it because most people's anxiety stems from their irrational thoughts. mine stem from unconscious retarded fight-or-flight reactions.

[juanjo_asdf]

OK this thread is still up. My sister passed the test without the propanolol so I still dont know how these two interact.

What my sister did was take full 100mg modafinil an hour before the oral. All she took was 100mg a day; 50 upon waking and mid day. She always comented on how taking the full dose made her have a surge of energy and confidence for the first few hours.

Im wondering if one othe isomers is quicker acting and more potent. Hasent there been a newer version of modafinil released where you only get one of the isomers for a longer acting effect?

btw: she passed

[tarbtl]

no. modafinil IS the active isomer. adrinifil was the one that contained both

fwiw, modafinil doesn't do much to me other than prevent me from sleeping so I'm going to ask my doc about weather its worth continuing...

anyway... I had a cup of coffee today plus 100mg modafinil. I,ll try to go 100% clean tomorrow and then take the inderal friday and go bang some hot chicks.

[revnik]

Hi, I ran upon this topic and wanted to add the folowing:

Modafinil can decrease or increase the activity of enzymes in the liver that metabolize (eliminate) other drugs.
Drugs that may show increased effects or toxicity if taken with modafinil include diazepam (Valium) and propranolol (Inderal)

So if anyone is thinking of combining them, keep in mind that you probably should lower the propranolol-dosage when combined with modafinil as opposed to taking them separately.

Edited by revnik, 27 January 2008 - 02:59 PM.

[unbreakable]

EDITED: Sorry, somebody already answered the question.

Edited by unbreakable, 27 January 2008 - 03:37 PM.

[liorrh]

I know many people who combined stims like coffee and E with beta blockers. check M&M forums for more information.

[jar79]

I'm currently testing out the propanolol and modafinil combination. For me, atenolol or propanolol work like nothing else in calming me in the most traumatic events. If I start a new job for the 1st day, attend a new school, speak to a large crowd, have to be involved in a serious 911 emergency, or have some otherwise shocking event happen to me, atenolol (which is very cardio-selective) seems to work better than any medication specifically indicated for anxiety. Of course, I particularly, and only have, a very strong response in my heart rate to events like these, which causes situational anxiety I wish I never experienced. To feel alert, I may take a coffee (rarely drink) or modafinil (which I take everyday for complex sleep apnea).
I only take the propanolol as needed, I've taken it long-term and start feeling very fatigued by 1 week. I've also noticed that it nicely treats any anxiety caused by drinking too much coffee or doubling on modafinil.
I did notice that propanolol is in modafinil's drug-interaction list I believe this is because of their metabolism pathway and not much else, and adustments to doses should be made.