20 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

I know that there has been discussion about the R- and S- forms of alpha lipoic acid. Doing a quick search on "R-lipoic" on iherb brings up a number of products (Country Life, Source Naturals, Jarrow, Life Extenstion, etc.). Is AOR's different from these?

Stephen

[tintinet]

AOR, IIRC, makes a slow release version of R-LA. Otherwise, I'd expect it to be similar to the other products.

[niner]

AOR also sells a quick release form of R-LA, in addition to the slow release version. I use the slow release form myself. There are also racemic slow release formulations made by other manufacturers (Jarrow, Source Naturals...)

[psychenaut]

Lipoic Acid supplementation can be confusing. Lots of (heated and controversial) posts on ImmInst on this.

Problem: Racemic ALA peaks out in plasma in 45 minutes, you are back at baseline in 1.5 hours. This is a fact. Furthermore, if you are using an unstabilized r-lipoic, you are ingesting a product which will polymerize in your stomach (if it hasn't already done so during encapsulation). The polymerization problem is a fact. Stabilized RLA has the same pharmacokinetic profile as ALA- peak 45 minutes / gone in 1.5 hours.

How could your body not benefit the most from sustained release, steady state plasma levels of lipoic?

If you want to sink your teeth into some referenced, detailed facts you could do a lot worse than the 7 pages of R-Lipoic Acid information on my site. Be aware GeroNova Research is the only USA manufacturer of R-lipoic. Everybody else (including AOR who I respect) are only bottlers. It would stand to reason a manufacturer would have a much greater understanding of a material than a bottler.

Mods- Not meant to disrespect the board as spam post, thought is was reasonable to post a link to quality referenced info. Feel free to edit as appropriate if I am out of bounds here.

Cheers,
Pete

[ageless]

I use and highly recommend AOR's R+SR.

[shadowrun]

psychenaut - I looked at the information posted at your link

How long is your time release formula in the blood stream?

I'm comparing your product to the time release Jarrow 300mg at half the price

[niner]

Pete, in your lipoic acid FAQ, it says:

In one study with mice, alpha lipoic acid at high doses shortened the mean lifespan, but even at low doses, the R-form increased total life-span. In another study, the S-form was ineffective in treatment of diabetes and inhibited ATP production. Therefore it may be best to avoid the S-form altogether in order to achieve maximum benefits.

Do you have references for either of these studies? Thanks.

[stephen_b]

Where is the information that Jarrow formulas sustained release ALA is R-ALA coming from? Their product information is frustratingly inadequate at their site.

Stephen

[shadowrun]

Its not R-ALA

Its plain old ALA

but its comparable in that the Jarrow is 300 mg (ALA) and the Gero-Nova is 150mg (R-ALA)
(same amount of R form ALA total - Although I understand its not that easy)

both are sustained release

[niner]

Where is the information that Jarrow formulas sustained release ALA is R-ALA coming from? Their product information is frustratingly inadequate at their site.

Maybe the search function at iherb treated the search for r-lipoic as "r" OR "lipoic". Whenever you see a lipoic acid that doesn't explicitly say "R", then it's plain old lipoic acid, also known as "racemic" lipoic acid. A racemic mixture contains equal amounts of two optical isomers, thus has no apparent optical activity.

[stephen_b]

iherb doesn't seem to carry AOR. Can anyone recommend a good place to buy it?

Stephen

[wayside]

iherb doesn't seem to carry AOR. Can anyone recommend a good place to buy it?

Stephen

Cheapest I've seen is Unique Nutrition. I haven't ordered anything from there though, so I can't recommend it one way or the other.

[OutOfThyme]

I ordered Ortho-Core from them last week and it arrived quickly--3 or 4 days. Seemed ok... product arrived sealed and all. I didn't count capsules though.

[stephen_b]

Cheapest I've seen is Unique Nutrition. I haven't ordered anything from there though, so I can't recommend it one way or the other.

Thanks for the link. Apparently, they are really well established too!

You may find a few small companies selling nootropics out there, but chances are they just appeared in the last 2 years, while we have proudly been in business for over 6 years!

[lol]
Stephen

Edit: also, check out their price for 500 mg of transresveratrol. Maybe a new low?

Edited by stephen_b, 13 April 2007 - 07:13 PM.

[curious_sle]

I always get AOR stuff from Relentless Improvement... seems to be at least competitive and actually (shipping to where i live) often the most inexpensive place. Hope this helps

[xanadu]

I see the usual misinformation and hype. People believe things because they have been repeated so often. Plain old ordinary ala is just as good for you and much cheaper. You do need more than with r-ala but the hucksters are jacking up the price to no end. R-ala polymerizes and goes bad whereas racemic ala does not.

[OutOfThyme]

I always get AOR stuff from Relentless Improvement... seems to be at least competitive and actually (shipping to where i live) often the most inexpensive place. Hope this helps

I intended on buying from Relentless, but the price difference was significant enough to change my mind. I did a quick search on UN here and there appears to be quite a bit of controvery surrounding them. Perhaps some Sunday morning I'll wade through it all.

Having said that, I'll likely buy from Relentless in the future in combination with resveratrol. I appreciate their emphasis on quality. I certainly would NOT purchase customized supplements from just any supplier... closing that price gap a smidge on AOR stuff would go far though.

[xanadu]

The "controversy" over UN is mostly hype and BS, IMO. Certain elements within imminst decided to attack and throw out LM, a long time member. I still don't know the real reason for that but jaydfox, prometheus and mind were the main instigators. UN's owner was friends with LM so they got attacked also. All smoke and mirrors, no substance to any of the allegations that I can see.

[chrisp2]

I'm about to buy a years worth of AOR SR Lipoic Acid... And taking it 3x a day is awfully pricey.

I have no problem spending the money if the health value is there.

There seems to be some controversy over it - whether a medium dose but long release formula is valuable over a similar sized R-LA that is immediate release (and hence a instantaneously high peak, but short duration)

Before I spend $400+ on this, I just want to see what the latest thoughts are as to how worth-while it is..

[dachshund]

Do not waste you hard earned money. Your best bet is to by Geronova NaRALA in bulk powder form. I use it and am convinced is is highly bioavailable, I take 500 mgs dissolved in 16 oz. water twice daily. It is very sensitive to acids so do not take it with juice or mixed with ALCAR. I generally take 1 g ALCAR about 20 minutes after drinking the NaRALA.

You can get 250 g NARALA powder for $ 199 from Superior Nutraceuticals, or buy directly from Geronova at approx $ 650/Kg.

To you health!!

[Athanasios]

This topic has a lot of info on lipoic acid straight from the horses mouth, Bruce Ames.

http://www.imminst.o...p?showtopic=228